(no subject)

[reenka]

I think for the first time, I suddenly really understood how the people who have huge issues with canon feel, being in fandom, though not because I do myself, precisely. (Not that I don't have my own issues with HP canon, but just the sticking around anyway and the whole... feeling a bit alone and somewhat oppressed, haha, etc.)


Yeah, I mean... because I definitely have the same sort of burning issues, except with fandom/fanon instead of canon. It's sort of like fanon itself is a bit like an out-of-tune violin screeching in my ear at this point, it's kind of ridiculous. I mean, and I can't write meta about it either, not the way I could if it was canon, because then it'd feel like a personal attack or like I was saying people couldn't enjoy what they enjoy, etc, whereas it's just that I get this allergic reaction and I want to purge, heh.

Funny, because I love the -idea- of fanon, I love shared worlds, and creativity, and going in absurd directions, so what's happened to me? Why do I see a picture of say, over-the-top cross-dressing!Harry and feel sort of sick because I just... no. I could say I don't want to share Harry anymore, but it's not like he's mine; but somehow it's not about JKR or canon-thumping at all, it's about my ideas and my convictions having become rigid, and I hate that but I can't escape it because fandom's not inspiring me to anymore.

Even fanart, which always made me happy, which I unfailingly adore... even OOCness in fanart is driving me up the wall now, and I suppose that's a sign if nothing else is.

Well, so maybe I still don't fully empathize, because I don't think there's that underlying love people mention that drives me to criticize-- I mean, there is, but it's so... painful, so basically I just avoid rather than dwelling on it. It's just not worth it when 95% of all fanfic and even fanart for my pairing makes me seriously unhappy because I don't recognize the characters, or the dynamic is somehow exactly what I hate, or I refuse to suspend my disbelief because I want-- I need-- things to be better.

So... it's not like I'm announcing that I'm leaving in the sense of 'no more fic from me!', but yeah... I dunno. Do I still want to the Witching Hour? The main reason would be to see people I know and chat about geeky canon stuff without wank, so I guess that's still there. I can't believe I'm even questioning it, really. I was so sure I'd be there, because I loved Nimbus so much, and I loved meeting fandom people and being a total dork every time, it's just so... sad, I guess, because I've really overstayed, overworked my tolerance to the bone.

...Well, enough moping. Back to Basara & sweet manga oblivion!
~~

EDIT - Er... it appears I'm just having moodswings or... something (stress??) 'cause then fishnet!Draco made it all better o_0

BUT IT'S CANON, DON'T YOU SEE :))

...AND THEN AMALIN WROTE ME TOM/HAGRID-- I AM AT PEACE WITH THE WORLD! ♥♥♥ :O

Comments

[loftily.livejournal.com]

I don't know, Reena, I feel a little lost in post-HBP world!

I will unlock it just for you. :D

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Whee-hee! Your writing should be shown off!! >:D
I feel lost also, though not as depressed as I was when I was talking with my friend about how they're both growing up and Draco's like, no longer Peter Pan... which I never realized I saw him as in the first place! I always said I wanted him to change/transform/face the tough choices, but I didn't realize I also didn't want him to grow up, especially not when Harry has, too. Actually, y'know what it is, I think... it's not that they're growing up, 'cause I love coming-of-age stories... it's that it's so sudden and they're going to have to learn control (Malfoy already has, to some extent, with ignoring Harry and with being good at Occlumency), which isn't necessarily something I approve of. I feel like my little chickens flew the coop :))

If you wanna screen a comment, just click on the crossed-out eye button! :> I'm not sure what I can respond to, if anything :-S I'll just say things without referring to things, hahahah. *coughs*

Haha, anyway, the sappiness of most H/D really gets to me... well, to me, most anything that's not 'harsh and honest' (heheh, I know it's the title of Aspen's pornfic, but it fits them so well!) is... like a pretty lie. And that makes me sad. Like, do people think it just won't work if they're honest with themselves about everything, as writers? I don't get it, on some level, as an OTP writer anyway :-S

I think it's just that we both have... um, really lost that honeymoon feeling, it's not that anything's really changed, though. It's not like fics were that believable before, it's just we were much more willing to believe them. But my problem, also, is not being able to relate to the majority vision of H/D, and the issue is also that I don't even know if it's a vision so much as a cobbled together patchwork of platitudes and kinks and personal agendas. I suppose that's how it goes with any pairing, perhaps, but it's gotten to the point where perhaps I care about them -too- much and they're too important/personal that... it's sort of the way I couldn't read Sandman fanfic even if I wanted to. Though I've read a few cross-overs with minor characters that were quite good (`Language that God Speaks' in HP in particular).

...At least longing!Malfoy is better than ice-prince!Malfoy who's testing Harry's devotion by being distant. *CRIEZ*

But on the other hand, I think if people fully, fully realized just how challenging and difficult H/D is, they wouldn't touch it the way I don't touch H/S. I mean, I keep -wanting- to write H/S post-HBP, but I know full well I just can't. I know my limits, y'know :)) Not in general, but in this case. Perhaps hard-to-believe H/D fics were simply written by people who don't care if they're writing wish fulfillment fic that makes things easier 'cause it's "just fanfic" or it's -their- gimmick or etcetc, but I wish at least someone didn't. But then I guess that would be me if I got off my arse, so I can't say anything :))

[loftily.livejournal.com]

Of course you did not mention that "There was something odd about the way he chewed his carrot. So carefully." was your line, not mine, and now I just look like a crazy Tom/Hagrid shipper with a carrot fetish. :D :D

I could not screen it, though, when I posted, and it confused me, because usually the crossed-out eye button is there? I don't know!

It is not even that I am afraid to touch H/D now, I am afraid to have them touch each other! *dies* No, but really. You were like, "H/D hugs!" and then there came Big Bang II, and I was like, "omg almost-genfic, awesome!" I am not sure how, but after HBP, I almost feel like I can't imagine them having a physical relationship anymore. Or anyway, especially not before anything else, which seemed okay before? Maybe that is one of the problems I had with what I deleted-commented to you about. Well, and it is like the sort-of H/D from the Draco Trilogy, or something, how I imagine it. Though I don't know if Cassie has posted more, I haven't any idea, the last one I read was the "I love you" one, I think! Anyway, though. Maybe I'm just scarred from attempting to write smut, because I have been telling you for years that I cannot, and this is my reaction!

Reena, I loved OotP so so so much, and I feel like I am the only one anymore. Or maybe I always was! I really loved it, though. :(

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

HEHEHEH :D It's my ev01 plan to have everyone see you as a Hagrid fetishist, aww yeah >:D :D :D :D ...actually, it's funny 'cause I don't dig Hagrid in most other contexts. But, I can't help it, it's the only Tom pairing I like! I don't know why! But it fits! I sort of like Tom/McGonagall and Tom/Harry, but they don't... they're not as SWEET, GOD HELP ME :)) Or symbolic. Well, Tom/Harry is symbolic (...after all, he's the monster in Harry's chest... MUWAHAHAHAH) but not also complementary :>

If you can't screen by using the eye-button, you can select the comment and go to the bottom of the page, where there's the drop-down menu :>

Hahah, I LOVED your smut in Transformation, I don't think I've told you-- way in the beginning, I uh, couldn't wait & um, was skimming before I'd read HBP, so I ended up reading the smut~:)) I am a bad girl, but it was GREAT <3 And emotional, and hot, and yeay, you are really good! I was surprised!! :D Actually, your style overall surprised me (in a good way), but I was like, Omg, Amalin! :D That was hardcore. I was really impressed :)) I could sense your dedication to realism <3<3<3<3 *is proud of you!!*

But yeah, um, hahaha, I don't think having them fuck first all the time -should- be so predominant, so it's good that it's made more difficult (...though people do it anyway... *stews*). Sexual-attraction-first is definitely one of my pet peeves, not because I find it so unlikely, even, but because it's a short-cut and because I want build-up, dammit. It's better with build-up! It's better with friendship first! Its better when things progress reasonably, even if more difficult. It's better if Draco or Harry don't wake up gay, don't suddenly decide 'omg, Malfoy's HOT, how come I NEVER NOTICED??!?' (.....because he's not??!)

But that doesn't mean there's less chance for a physical relationship (I think they can be physical-- violent or just-- touchy) in many ways, 'cause they're both physically-conscious around each other (like, it'd register if they accidentally brushed hands, not consciously, but), but.... Yeah. One of the things I personally have always had a kink for is violent!H/D that became violent-lust!H/D (before friendship), but that works a -lot- better with one-shots than with longfics, y'know. I sort of made Big Bang in the first place 'cause I wanted violent-lust-leads-to-relationship, but it's not really my favored 'realistic' approach, just my favorite dirrrrty kink :)) What I -want- for them in to understand each other, to connect on some level like 'hahah, you're a riot. not.' or 'omg, Potter, -really-, what's with that -hair-, do you have a -comb-' or something, and then 'well, I -have- to help you, it's not like you can tie your shoelaces by yourself, now can you' and 'dream on, Malfoy' and 'like I can sleep around the likes of you', etcetc-- see. And then sex explodes later, like a delayed-reaction bomb :D :D :D

H/D is not all about the physical-fulfillment, it's about the UST! :D Though I can't believe I'm arguing -for- post-HBP H/D when I've been so bleh about it o_0

I loved it too!! WE ARE LONE PROPHETS OF GRIEF-STRICKEN VIOLENT MESSED-UP LUST, REVENGE AND UH... ENTITLEMENT ISSUES :((

[loftily.livejournal.com]

I never knew! You like Tom/Hagrid better than Tom/Harry, hahahahaha. That is the best thing I have ever heard. I LOVE YOU.

But I can't select comments on your journal, only mine! I am thwarted every which way! And that is probably quite enough about screening comments, as I can't think of anything more to say, we have thoroughly exhausted the subject!

Flkfjdsa I am not sure if you know how - overwhelmed, maybe? - I am to hear you say that, I am serious. I have sort of been floundering along because I am so weird about smut and I never wrote anything finished before and it took me hours of wincing and my beta reader refuses to read it (at least I do not do that), so I was like, maybe it sucks, I have no idea, what, and I even thought about re-posting and editing it out, I don't know! ella_bane called it elegant and I am not sure if I ever expressed to her how relieved and grateful I was to hear it, but I was still really sketchy and I don't know, anyway, this is my psychotic rant to tell you, thank you. Gosh, I am certain nobody else has these sorts of problems :">

I know, sexual attraction first is bad, but what is even worse is sexual attraction dissolving all hatred! It is okay if it is conflicted. Well, sometimes, as long as it doesn't turn excessively emo. Also, I realize some people actually do have sudden realizations sometimes, when pieces fit together, but it always makes me wince when it is the first paragraph of a fic, seriously. But I am also leery of fics where there is no explanation involved - see deleted comment - and it is like, Harry was just dating Ginny but now he is interested in Draco, no problem?

Also, I guess it's the fact that I don't see Harry or Draco as the sort of boys who would put physical urges against what they know and believe, you know? They are who they are, and I personally think they have to overcome that before they'd just jump into sex. It is partially why I dislike slut!Harry and slut!Draco, because it is just. Not likely. I mean, I see where people get it from, but I can't believe it? Possibly this is why I love J_H and PS so much. And I loved Olympia's hesitant Draco, although her sex-fiend Harry, augh, augh.

Oh my god, boyish banter! I have been skimming along with you and BD's conversation, and I think that, in the end, what I want to see is them getting to the point where they can be seventeen year old boys together. They've grown up, but they haven't, and I think the ultimate thing is them being able to be young again, with each other, even like you said, just teasing, or being boyish, I don't know. :(( Um, another pet peeve of mine (you are the one who is making me think hard enough to realize all these things!) is "I love you" in H/D fics. Only if it is done really, really, really well, and I can't think of anything right now except DT, because I just talked about it! Anyway, to me, the little suble things mean more, like being boys together or like, like you said. Seeing each other.

Also, what you said down there: I feel like... they're further away from each other than ever, 'cause while Harry was obsessed with Draco's evil-doing, it was a similar mystery-obsession as his fixation on Sirius in PoA or on the Ministry corridor in OoTP. I totally think so too. As much as everyone said H/D was impossible after OotP, I think - it's more plausible now, perhaps, as one doesn't really have to overcome the fact that Harry sees Draco as insignificant, but I feel like, even so, they have even farther to go. Which I like. That was my biggest fear for H/D after HBP: that people would now think of it as easy. It's not easy. And thinking of it that way makes me hopeful and wanting to write, a little, again, so perhaps that is good. :D

I am glad you loved it too! I am not all alone in the wilderness! I don't know, I also loved it because of the thestrals and the House of Black and gosh, I listed all of this stuff in your "Why do you love Harry Potter!" post, I needn't repeat it. :))

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Man, I love your new icons :D :D Well, I always do, but this time they're so... they make me nostalgic & happy somehow <3

Lots of people have smut-writing problems, though, especially if they're not crazed pr0n-fiends like me & shaggirl & addictedkitten, ahahaha <3<3 It's easy to feel like everyone's at ease with writing it 'cause it gets so much attention in terms of comments, but I constantly read people say how they're intimidated or embarrassed or just made uncomfortable by being explicit and stuff. It's a girl thing. I think I'm the weird sex-obsessed one, not you~:)) Though I always get surprised that as freakish as I feel, I'm not really freakish compared to people who really -do- view things through pr0n!glasses o_0 Anyway, you did well, mainly in that even though I knew you weren't into writing it, I couldn't tell from -reading-, and that means you transcended yourself in some way as a writer for the sake of the characters' and the story's integrity <3<3<3<3 Which is what made me so happy for you! :D Also, it was really hot and H/Dish (if that makes sense), so I reread it several times :))

I know what you mean about things being apparently random-- though lame explanations really get to me also. I do think that Harry's principles are important to him, and he wouldn't normally sleep with Draco just 'cause Draco's hot, which is why I so favor the scenario of the sex being a result of Harry losing it, y'know-- descending into darkness/rage, taking things out on Draco, basically it being an act of violence and anger and despair, etc. It's like... not a conscious decision in my mind, if it happens early on, more like a collision, a destruction of all rationality, and I do think there's enough of the 'monstrous' in Harry for that to be triggered, and that Draco would submit as well as enjoy drawing the dark out of Harry, feel the power in that. It's not pretty or anything, and it's not a -relationship-, but it's fucked-up misplaced aggression (hatesex, baby) and an attempt to deal with all those conflicted(!) feelings of helplessness and frustration, and before HBP, I could see Harry going there, y'know? Now... not so much, naturally.

"Young again"... man, that gives me a start o_0 Depressing, kinda, but yeah-- I want to see them just be boys around each other (again), and perhaps something about them -will- remain the same if you put them together, even if everything changes around it. That'd be kinda inspiring/interesting, if their dynamic could continue in vastly different circumstances. That'd probably freak -them- out as much as anyone. And I guess we don't really know the answer to that question (of how they are together) from HBP, since they didn't really talk at all in HBP. (I keep thinking about that, and it keeps freaking me out a bit.)

Oh man, I'm so with you with the 'I love you' thing!! That's definitely one of those things I can't write very easily if at all, because it just doesn't fit them-- I mean, I wrote it once in recent memory, and that `An Unlikely Pair (Like a Car-Wreck)' fic (dunno if you read it), where Harry sort of lost it and yelled it at Draco in rage, teehee. But maaaan, sappiness = nooooo.

I do like H/D being more difficult... argh, I'm caught up by my own rhetoric :)) I think it's because it's less emotional now that the difficulty level for me is higher, but it's not so much that I'd been balking at the difficulty so much as the sense they're not really my boys anymore-- growing up/apart, etc, that depresses me. It's just, a totally different world out there. Man... hahaha this is so how people felt after OoTP. I guess this is karma in some way :))

[loftily.livejournal.com]

I love these icons, too! I don't know why, but I really do. :D

Hooray, that is the best compliment ever. Really, I mean it!

No, I understand where you are coming about the aggression hatesex, I am just not a huge fan of really aggressive hatesex! Though I could see it post-OotP, too. To me, I imagine that "losing it" moment, that - almost, bringing to the forefront everything they've built up, all the little things rolling into something huge, letting it burst - as less of a sexual thing, haha. Like using Crucio, although not just, but it's kind of - the same kind of losing control, irrational thing, to me. I think in the aftermath of both, there's a sort of realization there, you know? And by realization, I don't mean, "Holy shit, I'm gay, and I'm hot for Draco Malfoy!" But you knew that. :)

I know :(( I keep thinking, they grew up together, in a way, I mean, all the same Quidditch matches and Transfiguration classes and Hogwarts feasts and, obviously they saw them differently, but it's like, they shared that! I am just a huge sucker for nostalgia and youth, you know that. I love the idea that something about them will stay the same, I don't know, and just, yeah. One thing I really liked about Finer Than Spring were the little moments of conversation where Draco would bring up moments he'd never had answered, like what happened to Buckbeak (Witherwings? Why does that still make me laugh!), because it really was like they grew up together, wah.

I can't remember if I read it! Do you have a link? Also, I can say I hate sappiness, but I wrote it for about a year straight, so I can't really talk! Like Draco, I have done some growing! :))

It is less emotional, but I still see them - well, not in Book 7, but in a fic I'll probably never write, etc. - having an outburst, you know, bringing up everything that was pushed down, that had to be pushed down. I mean, I see it as still there, kind of, and yeah, they've both had to grow up, but if they were just tired and older it would make me want to cry, I want them to still be furiously alive, I don't know. It's like - and you understand - that I still want Draco Malfoy to affect Harry the way nobody else can, to be something that no one else can be, sort of? I don't know what I'm saying. God, I want to talk about the last bit of the hugfic I was writing for you, but now I want to turn it into the Big Bang fic, but I have very little faith that I'll do anything with that, but then I won't have turned it into anything, and so!

It is karma, ahaha. We enjoyed our two years, now everyone else is frolicking in glee!

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Man, you're right-- that confrontation, losing it, bursting... thing... yeah, it is like actually using Crucio, isn't it. Um. Does that mean... well, y'know, the DE!Draco fic... um. I dunno if the plot -depends- on them having repeated hatesex in order to make the post-Azkaban stuff work, but. Now I'm like, 'but Harry wouldn't, yeah', and I'm just sort of stuck. ^^; I was just taking for granted that I could semi-believably engineer them into a sort of... a sexuality where they're taking things out on each other (stress, anger, frustration) without -breaking-, without that ultimate moment of... explosion, I guess? It's really different in approach from my -actual- unfinished post-OoTP H/D novella (and I'm guessing you meant you could "see it post-HBP" up there, heh), I didn't have them have sex at all-- I mean, there was UST, but it only broke slightly by the end with a single kiss (...and there was this thing with biting and drawing blood and coming in their pants, but). Um... the DE!Draco thing is turning into partly a post-HBP fic now, and... well, I'm really thinking about this ^^; I've realized a lot of it is just my self-indulgence in terms of liking them physical & violent and how that just works in with exploring both their dark sides, y'know, and it's not really realistic. Wah. But, um, definitely without the waking up in gay loff after said hatesex, nothankyou :D

And, um, here (http://www.livejournal.com/users/reenka/237241.html)-- I don't know what it says about me that I feel that's some of the most romantic H/D I've ever written. *facepalm*

I know what you mean about "furiously alive"-- that's where my kink for hatesex comes from, actually, ahahah (the more fury the better!... er). Anything but "tired and older" and waaaaahh. The lack of Hogwarts seriously messes with my head, it just does, and I know people've said 'well it's easier to write H/D this way, otherwise there's Ginny', but I don't care, I don't care. Wah. It's Hogwarts. :(( (Hee! Witherwings!!) They grew up both together and not, that's what makes it interesting. They have so much they share and yet they're so so far apart it's like they grew up in different universes altogether. Ahh, it makes me happy.

I hope-- I hope that'd happen, they'd blow up & everything that was pushed down, yeah, would... get regurgitated, I guess?? :)) It goes both ways too, though, I simply -demand- (imperiously!) that Harry be the centre of Draco's life (well, after his mum & dad, but they don't live with him at Hogwarts, see). It's sad of me, but I'm attached to the whole obsession thing, I mean, I -do- ship H/D ^^;;

And! Man! YOU HAVE TO WRITE THE HUGFIC :P The Big Bang is big and weighty and intimidating and too much to dive into all at once! And! So, we need... to test the waters. Practice. See how it goes. Play with a few ideas in a more manageable project. SO! I doubt anyone else will do it, so I have the idea of-- both of us writing the hugfic and releasing it together, at the same time, whenever the other one is done :D :D What do you think? I feel sort of inspired/encouraged by the idea of doing it together with you :D ♥

[loftily.livejournal.com]

You called Hagrid fat ahahahaha. Not that Harry minds, of course!

Okay, besides that. His whole body buzzed with the need to have it out, to throw something right in Malfoy's red face, but he knew it'd hurt him more this way, so he left before either of them had to see anything they couldn't forget. Waah. And the last half felt much stronger than the first couple bits, I think? I love great last lines, Something caught in Harry's chest that wasn't desire; that was more raw and painful and twisted, too wrong and too right. And he shivered again, because in the end, there was nothing else. Which is also, just, yes.

The Hagrid bit is still my favorite, though. :))))

I actually did mean post-OotP - I meant I could see how people were writing hatesex H/D to deal with how they were after OotP and how to get them to collide, at least. More than ever, post-HBP, I see them needing to work out everything before! Well, not everything, but you know. That is why I am going genfic crazy, I assume.

The lack of Hogwarts messes with me too! It was one of my favorite parts about writing fic, the hallways and portraits and professors and wah, their way of life, I don't know. And it is like, anything could happen now! At least before, it was like there will be the train and the Quidditch and the Sorting and now it is all up in the air, anything goes.

You inspired me! I just went back and wrote a little more tonight, so I am happier now, and interested again. Yes, water-testing! The other thing is, the first Big Bang Challenge came after over a year and a half of recovering from OotP, thinking about it, writing little fics, etc, and this is right after HBP, so it's very - less time to sort of process everything, read a variety of things, write a variety of things, etc. But hooray, I am excited about the hugfic now. I am at twenty four pages now, gosh! It is long! But I am encouraged and well, I won't be done by the 30th, but it won't be months or anything. ♥!

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Hee :D At first I thought you were accusing -me- of calling Hagrid fat :)) ♥

I know what you mean about things having to be worked out more before hand post-HBP... which is probably why I'm less inspired to write it, also :)) I likes my hatesex, pretty... um. ^^;; No, I mean, it's just that I write one-shots and mood and character pieces a lot and this is v. difficult with this set-up, everything needs build-up, build-up, more build-up... then more build-up.... *tears out hair* I'm not a novel writer! (Yet? Er??) And my present story, the only thing I think I'll write that's novella-length & post-HBP (let's face it, that's pretty much true) is dependent (though I dunno to what degree) on their issues -not- being worked out & Draco going the worst possible path & going to Azkaban and etcetc. ^^;; Then again, I like writing darkfic, dammit :)) Even my novella where I tried exploring post-OoTP dynamics seriously was basically a darkfic... I can't actually imagine writing a fic that was H/D that was really positive all the way through rather than just hopeful at the end.... This is a personal thing, of course~:)

I think 'anything goes' is a good thing for a writer, it's just... less inspiring for a fanficcer?? I dunno, depends what your shtick is, I guess. I think I got used to writing Hogwarts fic and that's where my comfort zone as well as my imaginative home is, if that makes sense (like, I have a Hogwarts in my head but not so much a Hogsmeade or a London) though honestly, most of my DE!Draco fic isn't at Hogwarts. I'm really breaking all my own rules with this thing. Le sigh~:)

YEAY! :D Yeah, we did have time, before-- it wasn't my preference to have Big Bang again so soon, but everyone's all pumped & excited, so I was like, 'okay'. And not that I mind getting lots of fanart for my DE!Draco fic. HAHAH. *greeeeeeed* I won't be done by the 30th either, clearly, but I've been venturing forward with it, actually, and it's been helping me get small glimmerings of HBP!Harry, though he's still too reflective. My Harry's ALWAYS too reflective. WOE :D And ♥ *also excited now!*

[shaggirl.livejournal.com]

Oh, Reena, you are the most conflicted girl I know. And of course you're going to TWH. >:|

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

'Conflicted' sounds kinda romantic, actually :))

...Well, I am if you say so >:D

[shaggirl.livejournal.com]

Romantic? Or tragic? ;))

*drags you on vacation*

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Omg, what was I thinking!! :)) VACATION, YEAY!!
(I could vacation all year, man. There is no limit :D *facepalm @ self*)


I AM SUCH THE TRAGIC HERO OMG!! >:D

[notrafficlights.livejournal.com]

Why do I see a picture of say, over-the-top cross-dressing!Harry and feel sort of sick because I just... no.

1) You're weird. Harry looks hella hot in a skirt.
2) You're even weirder because you liked HBP so much, and I think this is why this is happening. When you think the canon is starting to suck, things goes smoother in fanon. When the canon is loved so so so much, it tends to be harder to explore fanon.
3) Considering your edit, I think it's just your hangup with Harry in fandom, because you're all over fanon!Draco. :P

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

He's not fanon, he's really in a skirt with a feather-duster up his arse in canon!!! >:D Um. Okay, yeah ^^; *coughs*
I dislike omg-Fabio!Draco fanart :P That was traumatizing, I'm telling you.
Yeah man, my loff for canon is bringing me down :))

...I kind of like some skirt!Harrys more than others. On this one he looked a bit... uh... like he had a Lavender-type expression, which is just. o_0 o_0 o_0

[notrafficlights.livejournal.com]

URL? I want to see this travesty that caused you such angst XD.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Laugh (http://www.livejournal.com/community/rahly_furverted/258.html), go ahead :P

It's not just that!! ^^;;

[notrafficlights.livejournal.com]

Awh, but he's so trashy and cute. And I love his nails.

It totally is just that :P *squishes*

[addictedkitten.livejournal.com]

Quit your bitching and write me some Meanwhile back at Hogwarts.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

...Somehow I promised to write 3 fics in the next 3 days or so o_0
But I should really keep a file open for that too :))

*cowers from scary cat icon ^^;;;*

[addictedkitten.livejournal.com]

If you do not act soon you will lose me entirely to popslash.

AND THEN WHERE WILL BLAISE, THEODORE, ZACHARIAS, AND GINNY BE? NOT HAVING SEX, THAT'S FOR SURE!

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Man, you are a fickle mistress :))

All right, we need some sort of mutual encouragement system here-- like emailing each other new bits every Friday or Saturday or-- something! Y'know? Er.

holyfuck your icon is adorable

[addictedkitten.livejournal.com]

In the last week I've finished three popslash fics. The HP fics remain WsIP. When I get no encouragement from the HP sector of my social world then I tend to produce the things I know people will actually read. And at least with this we will be cracking each other, if no else, the fuck up.

If only we could psychically translate things back and forth between our brains. :-/ Man. That's a good idea, though, except let's pick a day where I have an actual chance of having internet access, like Wednesday. And by "like Wednesday" I mean, of course, Wednesday. If you do not send me something I will abdicate HP entirely and bring back my intimidating Justin icon expressly in order to leave menacing comments on all of your posts. -.-

*preens*

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Ahahah, and by 'sector' you must mean me :)) Anyway, I'm sure you'd get encouragement if you, uh, posted bits or posted -about- it or... man, it's tough having like, no HP friends left... but -could- write this baby for big_bang_hd, and then you'd get encouragement (there's like, a 7th-year-Hogwarts brainstorming post up right now) -and- fanart :D *pimps*

Ahahahhah Alright, if only because being blackmailed with Justin is so painful (now that I kind of think that video's hot, ahahah). Wednesday it is, then :D No limitations on size, though, so I'll probably just send you a snippet :))

[black-dog.livejournal.com]

I was thinking of a reply to this and then I saw adorae_spinitrae pretty much said the main thing I was thinking -- not about you being weird :) -- but about the way fanon flourishes when people have issues with canon, but when there's really interesting canon then the same old fanon stuff can seem anemic. Also, Harry in a skirt, yay!

I sense that you really, really liked HBP, and I really did too, and it makes a difference. I mean, if you think about fanon not just for the "three year summer" but even before that, it's been a long time since JKR shook up the basic materials in a fundamental way. GoF gave us, at the very end, V's return, Death Eaters, and maybe a handful of small motifs but mostly it was WTF as far as new material was concerned -- with the exception of Maya, who is sui generis, after all, what can you do with a one-shot tournament? And OOTP, again, is so much a self-contained story, you can't really tell new Umbridge stories, or god help us Grawp stories.

It's maybe only a slight exaggeration to say that fanon has always been grounded in the first three books -- Harry, the Trio and their antagonists, the basic patterns of Hogwarts, nostalgia for the Marauders -- with bits adapted from 4 and 5, mainly a suit-yourself Voldemort plot. Don't you think? Or am I talking out my butt?

And now things have been fundamentally changed, in a way that neither of the last two books changed things, and it's sort of like: how can you still care about the same old stuff in fanon? Dumbledore's gone, Hogwarts is gone (for the Trio), Malfoy's all grown up, Snape is complex, there's politics, and mystery, and adventure, on a much bigger canvas.

Also of course the series is ending, which means that any further developments can and should be self-consuming, if that makes sense -- they don't have to sustain this world for Book 8, they can do anything with the material, they can use it up.

This probably should lead into a manifesto or rant on what fanon should be in the light of all these changes, but that is too much for my poor brain right now -- or possibly ever. But it sure as hell should be new. Even my beloved H/D has to be rethought, I think, for all the changes in character and circumstances (I am salivating at the thought of Big Bang II, but whatever the stories are, I hope they're audacious as hell.)

I think I'm tired of romance, for example, except in a few cases. I mean, when you have a sort of eternal, arcadian, essentially comic world, where nothing fundamental ever changes, then romance is a logical story to tell within that world, because it's how people pass the time. But that's just not what's interesting right now in HP canon. I make a partial exception for H/D because I think those two so badly need to connect, that one of the most interesting things about each of them is what truly knowing the other could do for them. But how many other HP couples could you say that about? I don't need to read about Ron and Hermione's sex life. The most interesting thing about Ron and Hermione is probably what they had for dinner yesterday, you know? And the most interesting thing about Snape is how he manages to live from day to day -- and why he even wants to. So we need, gen, adventure, mystery, character studies.

Yay for crankiness! I would apologize for this rant, but sometimes its fun to rant and rant back, so I wouldn't be being sincere. Anyway I don't really have fully formed thoughts about all this, only sort-of notions. But that's why you start with babbling and then see what makes sense.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Man, if fandom was made up of people like you (and Amalin, hee), I'd never leave :D :D I suppose, yeah, it's all about being on the same wavelength... having a shared investment, where you really share a vision of canon/fanon rather than merely having an interest in the same characters. That's just not enough for me anymore. And hey, I do like skirt!Harry if it's girl!Harry... I even drew it (http://reenka.expecto-patronum.net/hpics/yourownsize.jpg) once :D

Haha, yeah... I really loved HBP, but then, I also really loved OoTP and saw many possibilities in it-- that's the one thing I disagree with you about, I guess. I guess I don't mean plot-related or world-building related but rather characterization shake-ups. That's what really happened and was so exciting for me-- Harry got all shook up, y'know, which is why I connected on a fanficcy-inspiration more with OoTP than with HBP. With HBP, it's all plot and world-building stuff and gen stuff, which is what canon's for, y'know?

Actually, you really hit upon something when you said that fanon is for when you "have a sort of eternal, arcadian, essentially comic world, where nothing fundamental ever changes". Yes!

And I totally agree with you about most fic being based on books 1-3 canon, with sprinklings of other stuff to keep it current. I did think a lot of post-GoF fics used the warning-Hermione thing & the train-threat thing as catalysts or whatever, and they often used Harry's angst over Cedric to have him be all lost & vulnerable, but they essentially grounded their characterizations in earlier canon, yeah. And as for why, you explained it perfectly, I think-- it's because earlier canon was that eternal, archetypal world that is so easy to slip into, and because romance is basically why most people write fanfic, y'know? I bet pairing-centric fic dominates fandom writing in general by something like 90+% or so. People tend to leave the gennish stuff to canon-- which is why my feeling 'well, now what I'd like is some gen' leaves me less than inspired to write/read fic.

I'm not sure if you're correct about Ron and Hermione being -quite- that boring, ahahah, but yeah, it's not the time for them (which is why I don't really feel the need for that Big Bang rip-off 7th Year R/Hr challenge). You're also right that things have changed fundamentally, which is why I'm less than inspired to read/write fic, especially H/D, 'cause, well-- I liked them the way they were (with all this stuff undefined, basically still children). I wanted to write a coming-of-age story for them, but I wanted full freedom 'cause... I just tend to let canon overwhelm me if I like it, and it's already got a certain direction.

I do still think Harry & Draco need to connect, of course, though I almost feel there's more of that rage and conflict I was addicted to with their dynamic with post-HBP H/S (thought perhaps that's -too much- conflict). I mean, I feel kind of sad H/D won't be the same anymore :( Not that they like each other or anything, but the priorities and issues have just... shifted between them. It's not fun and games (not that it was in OoTP, but it wasn't so... blatant) anymore. Though you're right about the most interesting thing about Snape is seeing how he'd manage to survive, heh, and also character-study stuff to do with his motivations/thoughts, and it's not like I mean I want H/S smut or anything. And I agree about making a partial (but only partial!) exception with H/D-- of course, I can't help myself, so I dunno about defending that judgment :>

I'm fascinated with the idea of using up the material-- that's both scary and inspiring, in a way. I mean, I don't -want- to use it up-- fics that seriously mess with the Wizarding world sort of depress me as a reader-- but it's certainly tempting as a writer.

But 'tired of romance'-- I don't think I am. Only in HP :D

And babbling definitely helps, yeah :D :D I wish I had more opportunities for that :D

[black-dog.livejournal.com]

Well, I hope you don't leave, because it would make the place seem more sparsely furnished, and the corridors echo more hollowly. God, you and Aja and Maya -- farewell posts, and POT, and general fanon discontent. You are scaring me, truly. And the thing is, that before HBP I was pretty much there, too -- all meta being bullshit, everything seeming tired and old, all the good smut having been done and read. Which is always an exaggeration, of course, but people get to a point individually where it just doesn't do it for them any more, isn't worth sifting through the muck for random gems.

For me, at least, HBP turned that feeling totally around, it just created all kinds of new possibilities and I, you know, dipped back into meta and I'm wildly eager to see what fics get created. But it has just startled me the way it has made so many really invested people feel totally out of gas, or at least conflicted. Is it because so many H/D fantasies were fulfilled, that the sense of urgency has faded? Or is it just that the sense of irrevocable change ruined the "arcadian" feeling of things?

I really loved HBP, but then, I also really loved OoTP and saw many possibilities in it-- that's the one thing I disagree with you about, I guess. I guess I don't mean plot-related or world-building related but rather characterization shake-ups.

I really wanted to love OOTP and I think I talked myself into believing I did, for a while. But the proof was in the reread, which I could never get through. I think OOTP was one of the most carefully thought-out of the books, despite the infamous sloppy editing and excess length, which I think was only a skin-deep issue; I think it was extremely systematic in the way it treated anger and it sort of left me with a feeling that JKR was more of a careful and thoughtful moralist than maybe was actually the case. And I think you're right that it opened up huge potential for more complicated characterization, even if it didn't offer so much obvious new material or motifs to work with. But (with some individual, wonderful exceptions) I wonder if fandom really took as much advantage of that as it could and should have. On the whole, I think fandom found the book indigestible, which was a shame.

I'm not sure if you're correct about Ron and Hermione being -quite- that boring.

Ha, true, but I let that stand because sometimes debate is advanced by rhetorical excess! But I truly don't think that romance is the interesting issue for these two -- together they are less than the sum of the parts. I think I've said before that PS/SS Ron was a wonderful character -- brave, resourceful, dedicated -- who's had a rough adolesence. He's degenerated into a complacent mediocrity ("Anyone we know?") and it would be a wonderful story to see him shocked back to his full potential, but I don't think Hermione is going to do it. And I was disappointed with HBP!Hermione, who seemed pettier and less interesting once she was cut off from her ambitions for greatness. Ron is not helping to advance her story here, I think.

With Harry and Draco, I love, love, love the fact that they are more equal now. I really had a problem for fanon H/D with the fact that Draco was so diminished in OOTP. There are brilliant fics out there (including Amalin's latest) that have to work with the old set of facts and make Draco at first the object of pity or curiosity, or of lust that's only dangerous because of sexual identity or political issues. This is just totally my own H/D kink, but resigned as I was for a while to bottom!Draco I like an early-UL!style Draco who is strong, and more open to connection and change than Harry because of his extroversion, and potentially more well-rounded than Harry, somebody who can rattle Harry to the core and wake him up emotionally. Harry has a grim strength, but it's the kind of singleminded, overdeveloped, rigid strength that makes for really powerful but fucked-up people who get in everybody's face. I want more for Harry than that, and Draco may be the only person strong enough, and different enough, to give it to him.

See, more babbling! Babbling is good.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I was about to go to sleep after reading this, hahah, but I can't help myself, you mentioned strong!Draco in Maya's sense, who is so something like my ideal Draco-- not that I want fanon, but that I want that sense of 'differently strong' from Harry, YES! *gushes* Oh, I've tried to resign myself to utterly-bottom!Draco too (oh, I've tried! I've written him!), and given, I like him much more than smooth-as-ice-top!Draco (who makes me want to stab out his eyeballs after I kick him in the pants)-- but yes, for him to "rattle Harry to the core and wake him up emotionally". ♥♥

And I know just what you mean about the brittleness of Harry's "grim strength"-- he keeps going because he -has- to, because he -needs- to, and omg "powerful but fucked-up"-- well, yeah, he needs to be held back, balanced, softened by someone he trusts implicitly. I -love- the idea of a Draco who's more open to change and flexible because of extroversion-- I think that's really true of Draco (and, hee! of course! he's a Gemini!). I like to think of Draco as very stubborn and single-minded as well as fluid/adaptable at the same time. He adapts his means to his ends, and is fierce in a totally different way than Harry. Although... I don't think I agree entirely about OoTP necessitating a Draco who's the object of pity (BLEH... I hate Harry pitying Draco... hate) or a mere catalyst for a sexual/identity crisis-- it could be so much more focused on Draco's own impetus to become strong (which is what happened! and it's what I always wanted from OoTP fic), and on Harry's dealing with his dark side, his neediness/possessiveness/rage/grief till he comes out the other side (which -didn't-, in fact, happen in canon or most fanon).

Of course I agree with you that most H/D fics didn't deal with this potential for more "complicated characterization" at all-- but it's what really fired me up about the pairing for 2 years now. And it's not that now it's less complex, but rather... even as Draco's getting closer to being Harry's equal in terms of approaching maturity level and higher competency, I feel like both of them are growing up too fast, also. Not that I want a complete arcadia of eternal youth & carefree playtime by a long-shot, but I guess I wanted more room to maneuver. I feel like it's both a good thing and a bad thing that canon overlapped with my internal H/D-development territory in HBP. I just realized that in the end, I was writing about them as schoolboys, their griefs and resentments and allegiances and rivalries, and not... anything like this murky area of nearly fixed characterization. You realize, this is Harry now. I don't think he'll change that much in book 7. That's reasonable, but scary to me as a fic writer. There's not that sense of dangling threads in terms of characterization, perhaps.

I admit I liked HBP!Hermione because of her newfound vulnerability-- she was always insecure, and now came the crunch point. In OoTP, she was -too- competent, it seemed like. She needed to deal with things, y'know, and I think she did, and in the end the Trio's friendship is rock-solid. I'm not sure how I feel about Ron & his lingering mediocrity-- I think, perhaps, that's just what Ron's own insecurities are still dragging him into, and it's up to -him- (with some help from Harry and Felix Felicis, hehe) to overcome it, probably when it really counts, in book 7. The whole HP arc involved Ron finding his confidence in himself, Harry dealing with his dark side, and Hermione learning she herself possesses values beyond 'books and cleverness' :>

...Perhaps I am too sappy -.-

[black-dog.livejournal.com]

A quick reply, because I'm heading out this afternoon (yes, I just got up, why do you ask?)

The whole HP arc involved Ron finding his confidence in himself, Harry dealing with his dark side, and Hermione learning she herself possesses values beyond 'books and cleverness' :>

A nice summary to carve in stone! If it works out that way, I will be very happy. Not to mention: "and Draco learns that he is as formidable as he ever dreamed, and it doesn't depend on status markers and nasty distinctions." Or something. (*rubs eyes*)

I feel like both of them are growing up too fast, also . . . I just realized that in the end, I was writing about them as schoolboys, their griefs and resentments and allegiances and rivalries, and not... anything like this murky area of nearly fixed characterization . . . There's not that sense of dangling threads in terms of characterization, perhaps.

I honestly don't see quite the sense of limitation that you might, here. I mean, yes, it's not schoolboy issues and slug-belching anymore, but they're only 17 so in a sense it's still schoolboys playing at adult issues, whether they like it or not. "Forced to grow up" -- in the sense that the consequences of their actions are totally disproportionate to their experience, but fortunately (for writers and observers) they are still idiots-in-progress in a sense; they still have plenty to learn about themselves, I think, and plenty to reconsider. Or maybe I am a sappy optimist?

it could be so much more focused on Draco's own impetus to become strong (which is what happened! and it's what I always wanted from OoTP fic), and on Harry's dealing with his dark side, his neediness/possessiveness/rage/grief till he comes out the other side (which -didn't-, in fact, happen in canon or most fanon).

Well, Draco's become strong under duress, and now maybe we can see what he does with his strength when he has more freedom of choice? (Although I guess that depends on what you project about his time on the run in Book 7.)

As for Harry, I totally agree that he hasn't confronted his dark side yet. Yes, this was a mellower Harry, but it was a Harry who was being frantically manipulated by Dumbledore into feeling gratified and mellow. Just because Dumbledore presented himself with a pose of frankness doesn't mean he was any less of the old BS'er. I mean, a personal visit at the Dursleys? Private lessons? "I feel safe -- I am with you??" So after the catastrophe of OOTP Dumbledore chose to work on Harry from another angle, give him what he seemed to desperately need, and hope that it would open him up to some lessons that might take, once he was on his own.

But the proof will still be in Book 7. He'll have to recall Dumbledore's own behavior in persuading himself to put his mission ahead of his emotional reactions, and in deciding how to judge Snape and Draco, for instance. There's still a great story in seeing whether he can do it.

And now, must run, so let us hold hands and dance in a circle about our total agreement on where H/D still needs to go!

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Oh man o_0 I feel myself bending under the weight of your reasonableness and conviction :)) The call of Harry's growing pains is hard to resist, and oh, oh, I hope he has more formative angst in book 7, though perhaps he won't have -time-, and. And. Ohhhh I WANT BOOK 7 NOW :(( Um. I love your vision of Dumbledore manipulating him (perhaps-- though I did really enjoy and admire Dumbly in this book)-- though he did the deciding to be a good boy for Sirius by himself. A "pose of frankness", huh. *clings to hope* Man. All I can say is, I REALLY HOPE SO. And I suppose that's enough to work it into fanfic, though I've still no clue how o_0 o_0 I had such an instinctive understanding of Harry's mental state at the end of OoTP, and nothing like that at the end of HBP. Mer.

With Draco... it's much more complicated for me, because of his much lesser focus on Harry, and their mutual shifting dynamic and relationship with each other. That's what really upset me, as H/D-ish as this book was. In retrospect, I feel like... they're further away from each other than ever, 'cause while Harry was obsessed with Draco's evil-doing, it was a similar mystery-obsession as his fixation on Sirius in PoA or on the Ministry corridor in OoTP. It being Draco gave it a personal stake, a reason to suspect strongly and a sense of outrage, etc, but it... oh, I dunno. I feel like he was approaching it differently, less immaturely??! And Draco definitely was too distracted for Harry in HBP, and that also makes me lose touch with the obsessiveness that's fed my own-- like, in my head, he'd have done all this to get at Harry, but I don't think he did. Like, I dunno to what extent he was even aware of Harry in HBP. :/

I do think both of them are on an important personal journey, I just dunno what I think of them -together- right now, if that makes sense, and what, precisely, they need each other for in the romantic sense. Before, that wasn't really a question I could -ask-, since even though Harry seemed 'beyond' Malfoy in OoTP, that didn't matter, because the strength of Draco's passion was focused on him and that's what drove the whole wagon. Draco practically threw himself at Harry in every book, and HBP, they didn't even have a two-sentence conversation. They were still focussed with each other, but in an impersonal way, if that makes sense-- even when Harry realized Malfoy was human too, it was... it was like partly overcoming his personal bias rather than reforming it into something else, precisely. I dunno.

And I don't like the idea they'll keep changing outside each other's direct influence, that they're... not in orbit anymore. Like, they have v. different development goals, too-- Harry has to become a better hero, in simplistic terms, whereas might be on the way to being an antihero of sorts, someone on the sidelines but with his own agenda, not really like Snape, with his iffy allegiances... more like a private agent. I dunno, it's not like this is a logical reading of canon, it's just my own vision & it's a bit dismal to me :/

I do get what you're saying about them still being 17 and faced with "consequences disproportionate to their experience"-- I mean, separately. But what brings them together? *sigh* But then, in this case, I'm pretty sure I'm being a mopey pessimist :>

[black-dog.livejournal.com]

Ha, it seems I have us dancing together prematurely, or at least that I am dancing in a circle by myself, which at least is an amusing spectacle for others! OK then --

[Re: Dumbledore] All I can say is, I REALLY HOPE SO.

OK, we'll let the Dumbledore theory insinuate itself slowly, like water carving a channel in limestone . . .

they're further away from each other than ever, 'cause while Harry was obsessed with Draco's evil-doing, it was a similar mystery-obsession as his fixation on Sirius in PoA or on the Ministry corridor in OoTP. It being Draco gave it a personal stake, a reason to suspect strongly and a sense of outrage, etc, but it... oh, I dunno. I feel like he was approaching it differently, less immaturely??!

I don't know if I totally agree with this take on Harry's side of things. I think it is primarily personal. I made this argument to latxcvi on my own LJ, but look at the opening scenes between the two of them -- the first words he hears Draco speak in HBP are "I'm not a child anymore." And the first thing he notices about Draco is how handsome his new robes are. If this were the introduction of, say, a female character the hero had previously only seen as a child, what would you make of that, exactly? ;)

And the hunt down to Knockturn Alley follows immediately on that epiphany, and it seems eccentric enough to Ron and Hermione -- it's purely Harry's obsession. This happens before Harry has any reason to think that there is a mystery, which I think is significant. He just wants to see what this new Draco is up to. So I think it is personal, it is visceral, for Harry -- somehow the balance of obsession has simply changed over the summer.

And I know I'm veering into slasher psychosis here, but I really do read a genuinely erotic charge to it, throughout the book, filtered of course through suitable mediating plot points. Draco got stunning over the summer, and our hero noticed, in his own charmingly repressed and sociopathic way.

And Draco definitely was too distracted for Harry in HBP, and that also makes me lose touch with the obsessiveness that's fed my own-- like, in my head, he'd have done all this to get at Harry, but I don't think he did. Like, I dunno to what extent he was even aware of Harry in HBP. :/

Yeah, I agree more with this than I do about Harry. I was struck by the way in the train compartment, he ignored Harry's name (in Blaise's report on the Slug Club) and fixed on Longbottom. Although at that point, he might have suspected Harry was hiding in the upper bunk. The one-on-one asskicking Draco gave Harry seemed curiously measured and detatched -- he wanted to do it, but afterwards he was just done with Harry.

So Draco had bigger things on his mind than Harry, I agree. But it's hard to be sure of things because we get so little of Draco's POV. (Classic argument from silence, I know, I know.) Still, Draco was aware of Harry stalking him (and Crabbe and Goyle) to the Room of Requirement. And he certainly noticed Sectumsempra. In fact, I like to think, purely in my own head, that the slashing spell helped get him over his crisis, helped clarify his sense that whatever games Voldemort was playing, Dumbledore's side considered him dead meat. This in turn might have given him the final burst of focus and intensity to get on with his scheme to breach the Hogwarts defenses. At least, I like to think so.

Also, I have trouble believing that old channels and patterns are ever totally erased -- Draco's obsession with Harry might have been pre-empted, but Harry is still a key part of the framework he uses to visualize the war and the sides he is taking and what it all means to him.

[continued . . . ]

[black-dog.livejournal.com]

[. . . continued]

But what brings them together?

Well this, I think, is the glory of where JKR has left Draco, Snape, and Harry at the end of HBP. I really think it's full of possibilities, at a sheer, plot sort of level.

Draco has almost nowhere to go. From the "Draco, run!" scene, I take it that he and Snape are separated at the moment. His only recourse is Snape, though he doesn't know it yet. So an early Book 7 plot issue probably involves getting those two reconnected.

But Snape, if we buy all the meta arguments that were made in July, is on the side of light, so the Snape/Draco connection is going to involve some very subtle implicit negotiations that help Draco understand where his true interests are. I mean, Voldemort is probably going to kill him -- there's nothing there for him. And Dumbledore's offer must have affected him strongly. So under Snape's influence, I see Draco pulled, however reluctantly into the fight against V.

Harry of course is about to launch his quest, possibly with his two bumbling sidekicks in tow. And he'd probably like to kill Snape on sight. But again, what Harry doesn't know -- yet -- is that Snape is on his side. At the same time, he could probably use Snape's intellect to help make his search for the horcruxes more than a random perambulation around England. And Snape, as Dumbledore's former #2 and chief spy, probably knows one or two additional useful things about V that would help the quest as well. So, somewhere in Book 7 (or Book-7!fic), there needs to be a reconciliation and alliance between Harry and Snape. For plot reasons, for thematic reasons, and to continue the arc of Harry's developing sense of people's complexity.

Which in turn, brings Harry and Draco into contact. And if, in any way, they end up working together, they're going to discover ways that they complement each other, brains vs. ferocity or whatever, however reluctant the alliance may be, and however excruciatingly slowly it may develop into something else. And the things Harry won't ever fully understand about Snape, he may come to understand better about a peer.

So what brings Harry and Draco together, on this theory, isn't so much emotional necessity as sheer circumstance, the requirements of plot. But that's OK -- no one can agree how to square the H/D circle in the first place, so why not make it a matter of circumstance, forcing them to work together, forcing them to deal with each other? And then the H/D emotional entanglement, which is a potential that no one is sure how to hatch on its own, emerges from the day-to-day developments of the situation.

I mean, of course, there are a million other ways for it to work out. You could go for cheap tragedy -- Harry slaughters Draco and Snape, just as Draco is about to convert and not realizing that Snape holds the key to his victory. But that only gives you a moment of terrible irony and emotional punch, where on the other model gives you a whole novel's worth of three impossible personalities adjusting to each other under duress. I know which story I'd pick!

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I really do love your vision of H/D :D As I said in the original post, I'm just...um... having fannish discontent tied to my overall post-HBP fanon/fanfic crisis and just sort of wanting to read the next book ^^;;; A big part of me is like, well, the stories that can be told will probably be interesting and there are certainly many plausible directions, but I'm not sure I'm the person to write them or read them, y'know? Just like most of the fandom wasn't on board with my vision of post-OoTP H/D, even though the possibilities were there! :>

In terms of Harry:
Harry said nothing; he was thinking too hard. Narcissa Malfoy would not have let her precious son out of her sight willingly; Malfoy must have made a real effort to free himself from her clutches.

Harry, knowing and loathing Malfoy, was sure the reason could not be innocent.

I do think this qualifies as "reason to think there is a mystery", in a detective-style hunch sort of way, which is how Harry thinks, anyway-- by leaps and suspicions and gut feelings rather than deductions or rational causalities. He was already -wanting- to suspect Malfoy, of course he was, but he wasn't acting irrationally, y'know what I mean? Perhaps I'm being too much on Harry's side, here, but I do think he's usually overreacting (as with Snape) rather than coming out of left field entirely. You don't -need- the "stunningly repressed and sociopathic" for an -explanation-, even if it exists as subtext. I dunno why I'm so resistant to subtext, though-- I mean, I do see Harry as fixated on Draco pre-HBP-- ever since he first saw him, really. I think I'm just defending Harry's honor in this case, in that he wasn't just obsessed with Malfoy because he's so gay or whatever ^^;;;

I think it's the same sort of thing I find in a lot of stories where there are strong male relationships, either positive or negative-- I just react, and it seems so important, so... uh... queer, I guess. But I try to separate that reaction from my understanding of the character, or something like that, or everything gets... wonky in terms of making sense.

As for Draco being new as of the Madam Malkin's scene-- I didn't see that, even with his whining about not being a child (actually, that was same old Draco). What could be more classic Draco than,
"Watch where you're sticking that pin, will you!"
&
"If you're wondering what the smell is, Mother, a Mudblood just walked in,"
&
"Don't you dare talk to my mother like that, Potter!" Malfoy snarled.
&
"Yeah, like you'd dare do magic out of school," sneered Malfoy. "Who blacked your eye, Granger? I want to send them flowers."
:D

He's such a silly goof ♥♥ I was like, awwww, Drakey-kins <333333333 But, uh... not seeing the newfound interesting maturity :)) Which he might have shown by refraining to go further than he did on the train, but in that case I like the argument that he doesn't actually feel the impulse to take his violent outbursts on some grander scale-- he made his point, and that was enough, it's not like he's actually... um... a Gryffindor, I guess? He doesn't have that same need to punish/go till he drops/fully humiliate like Harry does ^^;;;

I don't think the old channels & patterns are erased, precisely, just -shifted- in a way that's uncomfortable for me, I guess, since I'm so driven by Draco's obsession :> I think it's an interesting idea that the Sectumsempra drove him to work harder-- it definitely could have! Oh, I loved HBP's frantic, desperate, hard-working (Hufflepuff??!) Draco-- if only it was also focused on Harry, I'd be in high heaven :D

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

And I think the orientation on resolution through plot rather than that good old "emotional necessity" is why I'm less inspired, 'cause I'm simply not a plot-driven writer~:) I'm fascinated by the plotty extrapolative possibilities, but that's all genfic and stuff for JKR to write best herself to me, y'know? It -does- make me think, Harry needing Snape... that plays quite a few tricks on the post-HBP version of my long-running Death Eater!Draco novella (which I'm trying to work into the Big Bang), 'cause there Draco clearly does not benefit from any sage advice from Snape, and neither does Harry. Then again, my initial point wasn't really to write a canon-extrapolative fic, and as much as it's -possible- to work in HBP canon, I'm really faced with the truth that as a post-HBP fic, it seems to ignore a lot of vital issues. Like Snape and Narcissa and most of Harry's actual development, etc. Oops. -.-

I do think it's likely he needs Snape to help (I love that idea, actually! ...though it sort of works more as H/S in my head, but that's neither here nor there), it's just... yeah, I -still- dunno if I want to -read- this, forget write this :D I love the slow development bit, I just want it to focus on -them- and not on plot, 'cause plot's what canon's for, or something. Or maybe years of thinly-plotted shippy fics have made me less than hopeful for fandom's ability to plot its way out of a paper bag :> Though neither do I wanna see something like Harry slaughtering anyone, forget Draco and Snape :D In my novella, Snape dies in the course of being a Death Eater (I didn't focus too much on it), and it drives Draco further into the Death Eating thing out of desperation and some despair at Harry abandoning him, and... man. You can really tell I charted my course prior to HBP ^^:;

Though Snape probably can't afford to help Harry too obviously, what with Voldy watching him~:)

[black-dog.livejournal.com]

I'm really faced with the truth that as a post-HBP fic, it seems to ignore a lot of vital issues. Like Snape and Narcissa and most of Harry's actual development, etc. Oops. -.-

Well, this is a genuine philosophical discontent, no? And I would not presume to glibly talk you out of it, but only to caper in front of you ridiculously, and distract you from it. ;) Or not.

But what I take you to be saying is that you don't trust fandom, and you don't even feel motivated yourself, to address what you see as the most interesting new issues in canon. You don't deny their interest, if I understand you correctly -- you just want to see what JKR has to say about them and don't have anything to add yourself and don't really care what fandom has to say. About Snape and Narcissa, and all the other fascinating developments that don't fall into mainline fanon, etc. etc.

Which strikes me as a coherent position to take, though I honestly haven't reached that point of suspension myself. I'm sure fandom will have many chances to prove that it can't handle post-HBP gen, that it can't escape its ruts. But I will go on being optimistic, I guess, until I can't fool myself anymore, and then I'll go find another way to waste time online. :)

But I really hope you do run with your DE!Draco, maybe for Big Bang. I mean, a fic should do what you want it to do, and if you don't want it to do everything, or if you want it to mourn new canon rather than run with new canon, then go for it. The interest is in the writer's sensibility, not in whether a reader ends up agreeing or not.

Meanwhile, you make some other points which I must not let pass! *begins capering*

I do think this qualifies as "reason to think there is a mystery", in a detective-style hunch sort of way, which is how Harry thinks, anyway

Hmmmm. Biggest shopping day of the year with millions of people in Diagon Alley, Narcissa has been mothering Draco and annoying him in the clothes shop, he's getting irritable and impatient and . . . he slips off to take a walk by himself! How positively sinister! O_o Hee, I just don't buy it. This is not a normal thing for Harry to think. It still requires explanation, and my money's on prior obsession. I mean, Ron and Hermione are the test cases here, and they're all about a good mystery/detective plot, but throughout the book, they're not seeing it; they think Harry's nuts.

I think I'm just defending Harry's honor in this case, in that he wasn't just obsessed with Malfoy because he's so gay or whatever ^^;;;. . . I try to separate that reaction from my understanding of the character, or something like that, or everything gets... wonky in terms of making sense.

Now you are letting me down gently, aren't you? :) Or calming me until the men in white coats come. But you know what? I'm as brutal as anyone at keeping my canon and fanon distinct, but I honestly, truly think that canon!Harry is gay as a summer weekend in P-Town. I mean, he finally found a girlfriend who's a boy and he still doesn't know what to do with her.

All right, you may not buy overtly gay, but there is nothing wrong with positing homoerotic overtones as significant -- not just subtextual -- motivators in a story like this. I mean, whole genres of boarding school stories would be banished if you ruled that out.

And yes, JKR has to be careful, Warner Brothers and all that. But I can't help thinking that what some people call the "obsessive heteronormativity" of HBP is a little joke of JKR's at WB's expense. (Filch/Pince, anyone?) Meanwhile, she's winking at the reader. Yes she is, we've all been all over the examples.

So, OK, overt slash is never going to happen, but there's no reason to be excessively apologetic about the potential homoeroticism of the "real" feelings of "real" characters. If you think about it, it's an almost self-hating form of self-denial, or a secret shame of slashers, to concede that while we may play these dirty games in our own sandbox, nothing of the sort ever crossed our heroes' pure virgin minds. Of course it does! And for some more than others. Like Harry. :))

[continued . . . ]

[black-dog.livejournal.com]

[continued . . . ]

And I think the orientation on resolution through plot rather than that good old "emotional necessity" is why I'm less inspired, 'cause I'm simply not a plot-driven writer~:)

Just one more point then. It's interesting, because in general I think I'm with you on the question of plot. I can't stand the way conspicuous plot devices intrude into otherwise lovely, meandering slices of life. I prefer plot to be either so minimalistic that you barely notice there's any structure at all, or conversely to be so contrived that it is really the whole point of the exercise, like in a detective story.

So when I implied that Harry and Snape and Draco might get together for plot reasons, maybe I wasn't careful enough about my implication. I just think the three of them are set up, right now, to react to each other in unbelievably interesting ways. And I think what you call the emotional compulsion for them to get together, in terms of the balance of their personalities, and the deepest needs of their characters, is so closely parallel to the circumstantial compulsion for them to get together, that it almost doesn't matter which is driving the process. And I don't care about the details of the chemical reaction, so to speak -- the "reactive potentials" are there so you can posit that the reaction will happen. If that makes sense.

I mean, look at the connections -- in this book Harry did the Slytherin thing, taking credit for the Prince's work, tricking Slughorn, basking in Dumbledore's attention as though it was only his entitlement. And Draco did the Gryffindor thing (Hufflepuff, what???), maintaining grace under pressure, and pulling off something truly audacious. They are so more potentially ready to understand each other. And Snape is the catalyst, the mediator . . . but stop me before my metaphor runs wild.

Anyway, like we said. Babbling!

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's a "philosophical discontent", hehehe (I like that). Mostly... it's too early yet from new canon, and yeah, I don't trust fandom anymore (that was my overall point). Fandom is what drives me to write fic most of the time, rather than canon (since I'm a passive reader in terms of canon and an active one in fanon), and well-- yeah, I don't trust my fellow writers to somehow deal with HBP or even H/D itself satisfactorily to me because of what I went through after OoTP. I did a lot of serious hoping, and felt a lot of crushing disappointment and resentment. I'd -like- to trust 'fandom', but I'd like to love specific writers even more, and I don't have even 3 favorite new writers currently writing extrapolative H/D fic at the moment, y'know? It's either fanon-fanon-fanon or stuff like `Finer Than Spring', which gets recced mightily as canon-friendly and fascinating in plot terms with the reservation that the H/D in it happens too fast and isn't built-up to seriously. I mean. Jeez.

But regarding my DE!Draco fic-- thanks :D I needed to hear that, I think. I -do- seriously intend on writing it (I've a lot of work and issues of self-respect built into it now), I just... think I was maybe trying to encompass too much, because I -can- work HBP in and I don't know where to stop because this-and-this-and-that is interesting/worthwhile, but I can't simply let this fic balloon beyond what it was intended to do, as you said. That is really helpful :D

I mean, I admitted it wasn't built to take on all of HBP canon, and I should remember that while it could acknowledge it, it can't just totally shift gears and become -about- HBP canon or anything. I have to cut corners where I can't afford to just spend a whole new subplot (oh, I -shudder-) dealing with Snape and restructuring Harry, etc. Try to do the best I can with the fic I've got in my head, and remember this is what it is (a darkfic dealing with Draco's development, self-image, relationship to his father, his future and to Harry), and what it's not is a post-HBP this-is-how-canon-can-easily-go fic.

However, I do acknowledge & admit the possibility that writing fic in itself is what I need to get me into the spirit of post-HBP fic and what to do with new canon. Sort of your basic trial-and-error scenario.


I think it qualifies as 'obsession' in a way because Harry is -so- aware of Draco's habits, what he usually does, how he usually behaves, in a similar way that Draco is of his, I'd bet, and in a way Ron and Hermione simply -aren't-, so they would be lost and confused. His hunch is based on an intimate instinctual understanding of his opponent, someone whom he'd paid a lot of attention to over the years. It wasn't some random boy he saw take a walk without his mother, it was Narcissa, Draco's mum, who "would not have let [him] out of her clutches". I think he just... it's like uh, Batman would have a hunch about the Joker's motives and what he'd think like/act like & where he'd go, etc. Or something. So yes... it's not "normal", but neither is it completely deranged, y'know? Heh.

I do think of "homoerotic overtones as significant"-- definitely. I mean, I wouldn't write it otherwise :D But, y'know, overtones, built on a foundation heavily mixed with... something else to camouflage it with, something that'd stand up to some scrutiny. To follow canon, you'd have to allow a window of interpretation to cast shadows everywhere and a background of heteronormative standard motivations. Or something. It's only when the shadows stand up and start walking outside of fanfic that I see any problem~:)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I can easily admit Harry's got a queer side (man... that frustrates me, but I've gotta compare him to Ageha in `Basara'-- which I very heartily recommend if you want to see manga that proves its mettle to you, btw, plot and large-scale adventure and slashiness and a somewhat philosophical bent and humor, etcetc-- anyway, the author apparently got asked repeatedly whether Ageha's gay, what with the long hair and the cross-dressing and the dancing and the close hate/devotion relationship to his former owner's son-- and she said he wasn't gay, he's just got a little "gei"-sha in him. I was like, omg, FACEPALM, and then even moreso when there was a flashback to his pre-adolescent years and he actually -kissed- the other boy while he was sleeping, etc.) Okay, that was a total tangent, but the point is-- some characters just walk the line in terms of gender-identifying behavior and attraction patterns and so on, and circumstances seem to define how it's all expressed a little too conveniently, but then that's just life for you, I guess, and I do think sometimes people just never have a chance to get out of the closet in their own minds. That's what's fanfic's for, after all.

I really like your idea about the circumstantial and the emotional compulsions colliding-- that's great :D I do think you can "posit that the reaction will happen"-- definitely. :D Er, that remains out of my reach/scope/natural preference as a writer, though, all these threads coming together, though I admit it's natural and fine for it to happen in that way. If someone could pull it off and tell me, "Reena, here's this story where both the plot -and- the emotional build-up go hand-in-hand, feed each other and are mutual catalysts"-- omg, I'd be in high heaven. Yes please, thank you. Especially if they managed not to have Harry feel pity for Draco, not to have them be too mature (ie, like me and Amalin were saying-- boyish teasing please, kthnx), for it to be intense and conflicted, competitive and difficult rather than made overtly "easier" by some easily-achieved empathy loophole, etc. Like, I totally agree they're more "potentially ready", but I need an HBP-extrapolative fic not to take that for granted, to make them really work for it. Potentials aren't givens-- and I'll be damned if I sit through 108943084 more fics taking them as such.

I love your idea that Harry was more Slytherin than ever & Draco went Gryffindor in HBP-- I was only saying Hufflepuff 'cause I didn't want to go too far, 'cause I do think Draco didn't enjoy the recklessness or feed off it (he made himself nearly physically sick, I think), but rather did it for the sake of something else, like a Hufflepuff would, ahahah. I think he had very limited grace under pressure-- I mean, he did all his breaking down in private, but I dunno if I count that as "grace". Harry had grace-- Draco had compartmentalizing, avoiding, nearly cracking and desperately rushing to the finish while ignoring all possible distractions (like-- there's a contrast about how Harry managed to still have a life in HBP and Draco... didn't seem to). But then I'm always overly tough on Draco. It's such a nice hobby.

And yeay, babbling! :D