~~ wank.

[reenka]

I have a very strange confession to make. I just need to get it off my chest so I never have to writhe in silent nameless discomfort ever again. Yeah, right.

Squeeing, 100%-positive and yet not really -descriptive- rave recs/reviews of fics make me cringe. No, I lie. I hate them. I REALLY HATE THEM A LOT. RAAAAGE. (Ok, no.)
    EDIT - to clarify: by "review" I don't mean feedback, I mean it in the "movie review" sense.

Not only that, they make me violently dislike both the reviewer and the fic, even if I -adore- the fic in question. I have to really bite my lip and repeat to myself "I love this fic, I -love- this fic, remember I -love- this fic!" so that I don't just write an anti-rec right back detailing all the flaws I can possibly think of (there are always some! Jeez!). I realize this is easily seen as hypocritical, considering how excited I get over fics. Still, I could -swear- I've never given what I'd consider pat compliments: Oh, this is great, genius, wonderful, beautiful, amazing. I've never called anyone "extremely talented" or even talented. I've never raved about how worthy someone/something is of their popularity or thought any fic -should- be popular as a sign of its greatness. Of course, I'm sort of elitist and snobbish like that :>

I've never guarranteed anyone would have to like a fic. That just -really- pisses me off. How could anyone assume -any- piece of writing is soooo great, -everyone- has to love it? My god, what arrogance! Not only that, it just feels like advertising to me. I hate advertising, in case that isn't clear. I hate it with all the passion of a thousand burning hells. Nothing rubs me the wrong way like a rave review that could easily apply to -any- fic out of hundreds. Saying only nondescript, gushy things about a truly good, visceral piece of writing just... deadens it.

I actually can't stand reading most positive reviews, though I'm almost always highly entertained by negative ones (they're usually funny, at least). The words one uses in response should contain some tiny spark of inspiration, something that is reminiscent of the fic, otherwise the review is pointless because it doesn't actually -say- anything and all I get is "propaganda-propaganda-propaganda-propaganda". And as should be painfully obvious, I reallyreallyreallyreallyreally despise propaganda quite, quite a lot.

So I'm in this weird place where I'm semi-known for recs and reviews and yet I have very little respect for the practice of reccing & reviewing itself as is commonly practiced. In fact, 98% of all blurbs & mini-reviews and such annoy the living daylights out of me, especially if they're of fics I adore. First of all, if you act as if a fic is -perfect-, it takes away from its actual humanity, from its real worth. It's like, you're not using your brain, so why should I believe a word you say in response, and does that mean -I'm- not using my brain in loving it, too?

If I had time, I'd post a mini-list of all my favorite fics and say only critical things of them to show how much I love them. If one doesn't -think- or express one's feelings in any sort of creative manner, one is just a parrot, someone who likes the shiny thing without really being capable of seeing its true beauty. I think to an extent, the readers help define the fic-- that is to say, if brainless zombies like a fic, you wonder how good can it possibly be. On the other hand, if eloquent, thoughtful people like the fic, one feels the worth of the fic itself is thus elevated.

Because of this, I realized I have a creed-- a set of ethics as a reviewer:

    - Never use hyperbole-- say how it affects you in the most direct yet descriptive way possible; pretend you're talking to a skeptic if it helps. Said skeptic will laugh every time you use more than one adjective per sentence.
    - Never project your own response onto others-- confine yourself to detailing your own thoughts, leave others to form their own opinions; separate your kinks from those of others and keep it in mind when describing the merits of a fic.
    - Never push a fic onto others as if it's a drug-- separate your own excitement and your actual full response to the work.
    - Objectivity isn't just for dinner anymore: try it, it works! Don't do the writer or the work the disservice of pretending they've attained perfection: there is no need to be negative, but please refrain from overindulging in the "bestseller syndrome", where mass hysteria passes for literary worth. Treat the writer as "a writer", and the work as "a work", as best you can.

*wankwankwankwank*

Comments

[bookshop.livejournal.com]

I am without question one of the 100% positive squee-filled reviewers, on occasion after occasion.

This is because I never ever have time to give critical thoughtful feedback anymore. I just *don't*. This is the same reason why it's rare for me to get involved in really at-length LJ debates; i just don't have the time to sit and compile and organize my thoughts into a clear argumentative framework. I like to state things once and then not come back to it. For me, reccing a fic is my way of saying to a writer that I really respect their work or what they did in this particular moment. If I don't have time to feedback your story, but I rec it, I consider it a fair trade-off, because even though I didn't leave you a review, maybe I'm sending you ten other people who will.

I console myself with the knowledge that out of twenty or thirty squee-only reviews/feedback that I give, I'll give one intelligent, substantive review. Eventually, if you're one of the people whose fics I like, whose writing I come back to again and again, you'll get one of the latter from me.

And of course, hypocritically, I crave thoughtful critique--even and always negative critique included--of my own writing.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

ehehehe you've got to be like, the one person who takes up the 2% of the people who -don't- annoy me with it. ehehehe >:D
but the people on armchair are like... really driving me up the wall right now. *cringes*
i miss the good old days of the shalott month. hee. i mean, it's hard for the average fangirl to go, "OMG, SHALOTT! SHE R0XORZ MY S0X0RZ!!11!"... thank god ><;;
but then, i'm bitter ever since olympia's month and i think i was like, the only one who said anything ^^;

it's cool to have a life, you know. i really dig the idea. damn, this makes me sort of embarrassed now~:) mostly, i myself don't -mean- to go on and on, i just can't seem to help it. my mouth is left permanently in the "run-on" position, apparently ><;;

hehehe, also, It's Good To Be Queen, and i dig that too~:) i wish i had *cough*minions*cough* er... fans who'd help me out by reviewing for me >:D
and now i'm all pleased 'cause i think there -was- a time or two (maybe) that you've left me longish reviews :D :D

[bookshop.livejournal.com]

Dude, I know I've left you long reviews, don't you remember that one time when I OHMIGOD QUICK LOOK OVER THERE!

:-"

haha, i'm still embarrassed and bitter about olympia's month. i'm still trying to come up with words to review olympia. :D dammit. i am in a constant state of embarrassment about Olympia's month (January, sigh).

but i'm seriously glad that my reviews don't annoy you--sometimes they annoy me because there's so much more i want to say but i know that i don't have time to really get into what i'm thinking and feeling, and if i try to dash off a critique it'll end up feeling fake, whereas i can always dash off a gleeful squee, because with me those are never fake.

and, er, well, eep. i didn't mean to imply that i was trying to say that, oh dear. what i mean is that, i don't rec everything i read--and i don't rec everything that i review. but more often than not i won't review what i rec, if that makes sense. i'll just read it and put it in the fic rec list and then usually wind up giving some kind of mini-review when i rec it. it's not that i consider myself to be sending hordes of fangirls out to read the fics i rec--i didn't mean that at all.

I just mean that there are people whose fic recs i will always bookmark just because i know that they have good taste--and since i aspire to be one of those people who generally only recs decent fics (though personal loyalties occasionally lead me to rec fics that i wouldn't otherwise rec with the rest *looks guilty*), I consider reccing a fic to be the highest mark of my opinion of it, and I figure if I rec your fic I'm not necessarily obligated to review it.

Wah,now I think i am making even less sense than before. *piddles about making messes*

[spare-change.livejournal.com]

Aja, I agree that it is way too much time to write a thoughtful review of every fic you read. And so I too often substitute a rec for a longer review, although I usually do try to let folks know when I've especially liked something they've written.

But it's important to me, with any fic I take halfway seriously, to always point out at least one thing I think can be improved. Because, like Reenka, I tend to read reviews that are 100% positive as pretty meaningless, whether reading or receiving them. I need to let the author know both what worked for me and what didn't, so that she can weigh both of them in deciding whether or not my fb is going to be something that is going to be useful for her.

Similarly, when reccing, I try to be pretty clear in distinguishing between the fics I love because Lucius is fucking Harry up the butt nonconsensually (YAY!), and the fics I love because I think they're beautifully conceived, narrated, and constructed. Even if I don't say more than that, I try to make that distinction clear ... between the fun trash fics we all love and the ones that demand respect and leave you reeling for days afterwards. It's only fair, I think, to let the folks who might read something 'cos I recced it know what they're in for.

So I have to say that I spent a pretty miserable evening downloading onto my PDA all those fics you recced in your last big H/D rec update. Almost every single one of them sucked to the point of absolute unreadability. (I won't say EVERY one of them, but nearly all of them.) And I'm not saying this to be gratuitiously bitchy, either ... I wouldn't have said this at all if not in the context of the current discussion. It would've been cool if you could've given us a heads-up about which ones made you squee because they satisfied a particular kink (and there's nothing wrong with that), and which ones you genuinely thought were good stories. Because I'm always looking for new fics to read and have been on a massive H/D kick lately anyway, and so slogging through one abysmal fic after another last week was NO FUN AT ALL. The fact that you didn't give us enough information to figure out whether these fics would appeal to anyone save the most rabid H/D shipper ended up wasting a lot of my reading time, which means that unfortunately I probably won't have the patience to give a chance to any of the next batch of authors you rec.

Which may not be such a big disservice to ME, but certainly is a disservice to THESE AUTHORS, to lose a potential readership by being lumped in with such tripe as All Bets Are Off and that ilk. So I do suggest to you making a distinction between fun fics and quality fics in your next update, or at least providing enough commentary/criticism for us to be able to figure out which category the fics fall into ourselves.

Please, Aja. Every time you tell us to read a bad FA fic, God kills a kitten.

[bookshop.livejournal.com]

I totally understand what you're saying and in part I agree with your pov. Let me just say in my defense that it took hours to make that fic post. Some of those fics I had been keeping in my to-rec list since MAY; i had to track some of them down because they were 404's; some of them i had to read and go 'what the fuck was i thinking?' plus all the CODING. it was MISERY-INDUCING. by the time i was through you're lucky you got any description at ALL out of me.

Also, I tend to feel that if I love a fic--and I just love All Bets Are Off, and I don't think the writing is half bad--then I shouldn't really have to explain *why* I love it. At the same token there are often things that I want to rec with strong reservations, but I don't feel comfortable saying what I *don't* like about a fic in public. I really really don't. This is in part, as I think I've said before, because I get paid money to write negative reviews about things, and I can be incredibly scathing when I want to be, at least in terms of describing what I don't like about something. I don't necessarily want to indulge negative critiques when I'm reccing things because, well, it's really hard knowing that my opinions carry weight and that I can hurt feelings even when I'm trying to be sincerely helpful.

Really, I'm still just wary because of an *extremely* negative experience betaing for somebody who I really respected as a person but whose writing I had (and still have) serious issues with, many moons ago. Ever since then I just have not wanted to go into details saying what I like and don't like. There's one author among my friends list who I've been trying to get up the courage to send an email to in order to give what I think is some much-needed critique for MONTHS and I just can't bring myself to do it. I always come back to the whole 'why upset them when you could just suck it up and enjoy the parts of their writing you *do* like?' Of course the downside of that is that I am enjoying their writing less and less these days.

I do sincerely apologize for all the discomfort you suffered through, S. I rec fics primarily for the general H/D audience and then I'll throw in fics along with them that everyone will like and not explain what the difference is or what my thought process is. So I know that's a problem.

But goddammit! all that CODE! No promises, okay? NO BLOODY PROMISES!

on a completely tangentially-related note, ihopeyoulikemyficformaya.

idea!

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

you could always rec things under different headings:

like, "for general h/d audience" and "fics for a rainy afternoon" and "guilty pleasures" and "talent to follow" and "omg, this is the SHIZNIT!!1 >:O" etc :D
or just give 'em (honest) star-ratings ;) ahahahah. ahahah, so lame~:)

also, i'm totally guilting about now having read your fic yet, even though i'm all, "DUDE, HAVE TO DO BETA BEFORE READING FIC" and here i am commenting/posting instead :/

*smacks self*

Re: idea!

[bookshop.livejournal.com]

Well, and also, how hypocritical am I for sitting here going "WAHIDONTWANNALEAVECRITICALREVIEWSDONTMAKEMEDOITWAAAAH" while also going, 'hurrah, reena is online, soon she will read my fic and leave me a long glorious beautiful review that will make me insanely happy like always, hurray!!!!"

:D

i suppose that i could and shall try these headings of which you speak in the future. i shall NOT be doing 'star' ratings. i detest stars. also, if you're going to give a fic less than 3 stars you might as well not rec it at all, hahaha. :D *is not helping*

Re: idea!

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

*meebles*
erk. i meant to say "not" instead of "now", but... er... sigh, it's already past 1am, so i probably don't have enough concentration for the beta. *smacks self again*
so like.. there are several fics i meant to read (well, you & thess & layha & rhoddlet as far as i remember) ...but then, i'll just read yours now instead, though shhhhh don't tell :D :D

Re: idea!

[bookshop.livejournal.com]

no no no read thess' first it is brilliant and short!!!!

Re: idea!

[layha.livejournal.com]

I'll pretend I didn't see that, and only give you the following helpful, cryptic advice: skip the first 3 and/or 4 chapters. They reek like shit from a mule that's been ruminating on asparagus for three days. I kid you not. Cringeworthy.

*smirks goodnaturedly*

<3333

Re: idea!

[layha.livejournal.com]

when, of course, you find the time.

heheeheheeeee

Re: idea!

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

for a sec i thought you meant `transfigurations', eheheh. which would've been reather funny :D :D

but no, i meant your ficlet~:)
damn, i don't check my friends page in 3-4 days and look what happens ^^;

*giggles*

Re: idea!

[spare-change.livejournal.com]

Don't do stars ... just do categories like how Reena suggested. That's how I did it, way back in the day, and it seemed to work. Just so that your readers have some idea of what they're in for ... otherwise, there really isn't any point in doing recs at all.

And I do think that there is a place for concrit in the fandom. And for saying, "Hey, folks, this fic is worth checking out, although I think elements X and Y are weak." I do this all the time, and although lots of people may bitch about me, I don't think that this, specifically, is why they do. ;)

As for why people hate squee recs so much ... here's one reason why, from a few days back: http://www.livejournal.com/users/gmth/66301.html

Re: idea!

[bookshop.livejournal.com]

*laughs and laughs at the reference to That One Fic We Both Hate*

Hahahaha. Irony of ironies. Ever since I basically flamed the fic "Empty Chairs at Empty Tables" to a crisp the other day after somebody on my friends list praised it to the skies, I have been wanting to do one of those "so, don't you really wish you could say what you *really* think about so many of the fics that get all the love?" posts. I would have, in fact, polled everybody about it today had I not gotten distracted with writing other things. It *is* incredibly cathartic to just be able to vent about the authors and fics we all can't stand--and yes, it is SO INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATING to see everybody reccing fics that I can't stand.

Maybe I will make a post about this on lieblich or something tomorrow, and fully vent my spleen. :)) *rubs hands and plots*

Re: idea!

[spare-change.livejournal.com]

Yes, Aja, VENTING BEHIND LOCKED POSTS WORKED SO WELL LAST TIME!

;)

Go ahead and vent, but given how [deleted] snarked at me when I tried to talk about Transfigurations in lieblich, I'll have to pass. :/

Re: idea!

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

isn't there something almost -more- awful about hating the reccing of a fic you -love- because of how it's being presented? ><
maybe that's just me. *laughs*

although it happens to me all the time. brilliant authors deserve brilliant reviews. on the other hand, if someone's stupid enough to like a stupid fic, that just means people are stupid squared, which is nothing new~:)
that's why it's always puzzled me why people -hate- popular badfic moreso because it's popular than because it's badfic. i mean, i hate `perfect imperfection' completely on its own merits. my hate is pure and unsillied :D

it must be different when this natural love-or-hate relationship gets all mixed up with paranoia (like, if i say -this- They Will Come After Me). I mean, it's not a -crime- to have some things just... not work for you, is it. of course, when the masses of fans ally themselves one way or the other, it ceases to be about fic at -all- and starts being about hype. which just sucks sweaty donkey balls, to quote my happy d&d-playing friend.

also, i'm all jealous of your other lj now~:)

Re: idea!

[bookshop.livejournal.com]

i shall NOT be doing 'star' ratings. i detest stars.

AHAHAHAHA. *FACEPALM*

[spare-change.livejournal.com]

Dude, I totally love that Empty Chairs fic!

I'm sorry.

I mean, there are definitely some problems with it (esp. the dialogue in the flashback scenes), but I'm enjoying it. And I've had more than one idea for a Dumbledore-exploits-Draco-and-Harry-finds-out-about-it fic of my own, so this premise works for me. I think that Draco is more gullible than we realize, in some ways.

And there are a couple of gorgeous moments with the language (like at the beginning, when Draco is unconscious and injured at Harry's, and keeps turning from human into falcon without realizing it). Yeah.

Anyway, I just got to the end of the trial and am plunging ahead. Maybe the problem is that I never saw Harry and Draco as equals? I always think that Harry will have the upper hand and it's only Harry's sense of fair play that gives Draco any chance at all. And still, Harry isn't perfect (i.e. fucking the second they get back to Harry's apartment. Hell yeah!)

EMPTYCHAIRSEMPTYCHAIRSEMPTYCHAIRS!!!!!!

[spare-change.livejournal.com]

OH MY GOD AND NOW DRACO IS A WHORE??????

d00d, I fucking love this fic.

Re: EMPTYCHAIRSEMPTYCHAIRSEMPTYCHAIRS!!!!!!

[bookshop.livejournal.com]

I HAVE NO WORDS. HAHAHAHA.

You realise now that every time we discuss ANYTHING now we're going to wind up at an Underwater Light/Empty Chairs impasse.

Re: EMPTYCHAIRSEMPTYCHAIRSEMPTYCHAIRS!!!!!!

[spare-change.livejournal.com]

HAHAHAHAHA I KNOW!

<33333

[bookshop.livejournal.com]

dammit, what happened to the part where i apologized for killing all the kittens?

stupid LJ. *sulks*

Re: commenting on old posts RULZ

[bookshop.livejournal.com]

Dear S,

This comment having weighed greatly on my mind over the last however many months or so, and presuming you get comments emailed to you so that you will see this and Reena will not think I am an idiot, I just wanted you to know that when I went about my latest round of fic recs (http://www.livejournal.com/users/wayfairer/393899.html), I tried very hard to use a system that would be both analytical and descriptive, so that I could subtly give you a good idea of what you would find enjoyable, and what you would understand was mainly a shipper's delight. I think specifying a recommended audience worked well in this regard; however I am still fingernail biting over using a star rating.

So I am come to ask you what you think.

Also, I am come to declare, meekly, that there are many old posts from you that I have in my memories that I can no longer read because I am not on the right filter anymore. Wah. I hope this isn't rude of me, because I am not sure what the LJ etiquette for this is since obviously I could see them at *some* point, but I should like very much to be able to read them again. Baby, I just want you to love me.

Re: commenting on old posts RULZ

[spare-change.livejournal.com]

OH MY GOD THIS COMMENT IS 1,000,000,000 years old.

But just so's you know: those other posts are on private. It's not as if other folks can read them and you can't. Usually when I go through and make things private (which I do every couple of monthsor so ) I just do everything at once and don't really sift through the various entries to determine what is fit for public consumption and what is not. So let me know about those other posts and I'll make an Aja-filter.

But please don't feel isolated or alienated or anything, 'cos it just ain't about that at all. <3

And I just feel so terrible about that comment having weighed on you all these months that I really don't know what to say. :( I'm sorry. I did see your fic rec post and I have had it open in another window for the past day or so (the only reason I haven't looked at the fics yet is that lately I am on a long-fic kick), but I remember skimming it yesterday and saying, "ah! how useful!" about what you thought the appeal would be.

But I just went back and looked at it more carefully, and wow, yeah, I think you definitely send the reader in with appropriate expectations. For what it's worth, I think they're great. I think you balance the praise and critical comments really well, so that even though it's clear which fics you liked more than others, you're still being generous to all of them.

So now that I've gone through these more carefully, I'm very excited to read some of these fics. But again, I'm sorry if my original comment caused any woe. *hugs*

Re: commenting on old posts RULZ

[bookshop.livejournal.com]

I <3 my memories folder. :D

I would feel terrible asking you to make an Aja-filter! It's okay, seriously. I didn't feel alienated, necessarily, I just assumed you'd renamed filters or dropped/added people from various ones--and I wanted to put my name down for whatever filter the older ones were on, because I like going through and rereading your old posts. However I would feel bad if I were the only person besides you who got to read them, you know? If they're private they should stay private. :)

"Weighed on" isn't really the right description; it's more that the issues you and Reena and Debbie and I discussed in this thread have been a prevalent concern of mine with regard to fic reccing ever since. It certainly didn't cause me any woe, past the initial angst I was feeling when we debated this in September; and that angst was more about all the other sources of fandom stress I was experiencing at that particular point than this one issue.

That said, you'll probably find more than a few of these latest recs aren't to your liking--but as always, I hope you like my favorites. :D