~~ wank.

[reenka]

I have a very strange confession to make. I just need to get it off my chest so I never have to writhe in silent nameless discomfort ever again. Yeah, right.

Squeeing, 100%-positive and yet not really -descriptive- rave recs/reviews of fics make me cringe. No, I lie. I hate them. I REALLY HATE THEM A LOT. RAAAAGE. (Ok, no.)
    EDIT - to clarify: by "review" I don't mean feedback, I mean it in the "movie review" sense.

Not only that, they make me violently dislike both the reviewer and the fic, even if I -adore- the fic in question. I have to really bite my lip and repeat to myself "I love this fic, I -love- this fic, remember I -love- this fic!" so that I don't just write an anti-rec right back detailing all the flaws I can possibly think of (there are always some! Jeez!). I realize this is easily seen as hypocritical, considering how excited I get over fics. Still, I could -swear- I've never given what I'd consider pat compliments: Oh, this is great, genius, wonderful, beautiful, amazing. I've never called anyone "extremely talented" or even talented. I've never raved about how worthy someone/something is of their popularity or thought any fic -should- be popular as a sign of its greatness. Of course, I'm sort of elitist and snobbish like that :>

I've never guarranteed anyone would have to like a fic. That just -really- pisses me off. How could anyone assume -any- piece of writing is soooo great, -everyone- has to love it? My god, what arrogance! Not only that, it just feels like advertising to me. I hate advertising, in case that isn't clear. I hate it with all the passion of a thousand burning hells. Nothing rubs me the wrong way like a rave review that could easily apply to -any- fic out of hundreds. Saying only nondescript, gushy things about a truly good, visceral piece of writing just... deadens it.

I actually can't stand reading most positive reviews, though I'm almost always highly entertained by negative ones (they're usually funny, at least). The words one uses in response should contain some tiny spark of inspiration, something that is reminiscent of the fic, otherwise the review is pointless because it doesn't actually -say- anything and all I get is "propaganda-propaganda-propaganda-propaganda". And as should be painfully obvious, I reallyreallyreallyreallyreally despise propaganda quite, quite a lot.

So I'm in this weird place where I'm semi-known for recs and reviews and yet I have very little respect for the practice of reccing & reviewing itself as is commonly practiced. In fact, 98% of all blurbs & mini-reviews and such annoy the living daylights out of me, especially if they're of fics I adore. First of all, if you act as if a fic is -perfect-, it takes away from its actual humanity, from its real worth. It's like, you're not using your brain, so why should I believe a word you say in response, and does that mean -I'm- not using my brain in loving it, too?

If I had time, I'd post a mini-list of all my favorite fics and say only critical things of them to show how much I love them. If one doesn't -think- or express one's feelings in any sort of creative manner, one is just a parrot, someone who likes the shiny thing without really being capable of seeing its true beauty. I think to an extent, the readers help define the fic-- that is to say, if brainless zombies like a fic, you wonder how good can it possibly be. On the other hand, if eloquent, thoughtful people like the fic, one feels the worth of the fic itself is thus elevated.

Because of this, I realized I have a creed-- a set of ethics as a reviewer:

    - Never use hyperbole-- say how it affects you in the most direct yet descriptive way possible; pretend you're talking to a skeptic if it helps. Said skeptic will laugh every time you use more than one adjective per sentence.
    - Never project your own response onto others-- confine yourself to detailing your own thoughts, leave others to form their own opinions; separate your kinks from those of others and keep it in mind when describing the merits of a fic.
    - Never push a fic onto others as if it's a drug-- separate your own excitement and your actual full response to the work.
    - Objectivity isn't just for dinner anymore: try it, it works! Don't do the writer or the work the disservice of pretending they've attained perfection: there is no need to be negative, but please refrain from overindulging in the "bestseller syndrome", where mass hysteria passes for literary worth. Treat the writer as "a writer", and the work as "a work", as best you can.

*wankwankwankwank*

Comments

Re: idea! (part two -- less long, but no less pretentious)

[bookshop.livejournal.com]

don't ever say that my evaluation of fics is based on anything but my own creative judgment.

I really don't think that's what Verdant was saying--I think she was saying that when you have a situation where any kind of evaluative judgment is being given, regardless of who is giving it, you're bound to have some kind of residual inadequacy issues and situations where a feeling of inferiority is created--not because anyone in particular attempts to cultivate it, but because people are being judged in the public view according to the kinds of evaluations they give, and that's just simply what happens.

and, yeah, i feel a little put on the defensive by this entire discussion, because i don't really feel comfortable with the idea that i should have to give thorough articulated reasons for why i like fics.

i can't really articulate why i don't feel comfortable with it, either. it has to do with my own insecurity--my own hunch that most writers whom i consider to comprise the, oh, the intelligentsia of this fandom want nothing to do with my writing or my tastes in writing and wouldn't even if i wrote long articulate reviews for every fic i rec. and since i don't honestly feel qualified to review fiction with the same confidence i have for my theatre reviews, i would much rather say "this fic made me happy" and leave it at that, than give long elaborate reviews. I am insecure about my ability to write good reviews. I would much rather practice and get better at it during personal reviews to authors than during posts made for the general public that anyone may see and pass judgment on.

What I mean is, to put it bluntly: say I squee about a fic and you clicks on it and you hate it. Even if I explain beforehand exactly why this fic is an utter masterpiece, you're *still* going to hate it, no matter what. However, in the first instance, you're only going to hate the fic itself. You're *not* going to hate my opinion of it, because I haven't explained enough about *why* I recced it for you to do so. But in the second instance, if I write a long critique of the fic and you still hate it, then I have opened my articulated opinion up for debate. And I *hate* debate. That's why I would much rather sidestep the debate, sidestep any potential for having my opinion ridiculed, and just rec the fics and be positive and upbeat and squee a lot.

And I realise that such a stance has probably made me subject to ridicule anyway--but at least this way I get to t00b my merry way through the fandom, and nobody gets their feelings hurt, and I don't have to be hurt in case anyone thinks my opinions of fics aren't intelligent, because I haven't been going out of my way to court their good opinion.

(more)

Re: idea! (part two -- less long, but no less pretentious)

[spare-change.livejournal.com]

Aja, don't you understand that when you lump something as brilliant as -- say -- Olympia's The Tale of the Shining Prince series with Allegra's All Bets Are Off, you are doing both of these authors a disservice?

You don't have to write elaborate critiques. All you should do is write enough so that the person who reads your recs can go into the fic with the proper expectations, and give both authors a fair reading. Whether that be: "This is one of the most beautiful, original, and moving fics in the fandom" or "This is smutty and fun and while some people may have issues with the characterization, I find the premise so tasty that I'm fine with it."

That took me what, 10 seconds to write? It's not a big deal, honestly.

I mean, this is what I and what most people do, and if you want people to take your recs seriously (AND WHY SHOULDN'T THEY?), I think you should do that. One of the things I've always admired about you is that you use your LJ as a forum to pimp other people's work, and not just indulge in stroking your own ego, like nearly every other BNF I can think of. What you are doing is *important*. It is a sign of my rexspect for you and what I think you contribute to fandom that I wish you could just take a couple of extra minutes in putting together your rec lists, so that people can feel like they can rely on you to flag fics worth reading (and why you think they're worth reading) and by so doing give under-recognized authors more of the readership and feedback they deserve.

That's why I think this is important, and that's why all these issues about elitism or intelligence or being afraid of debate don't really make sense to me. Because reccing is not about the reccer. It's about the fics that the reccer recs. I don't see why you should be afraid to say, "Okay, I realize a number of you may not like this, and admittedly elements X, Y, and Z are a bit problematic, but I enjoyed it and if you like [insert kink], I think it's worth a look."

Because as long as you're specific, then other people can't get angry with you. If you say THIS FIC SUX that's as bad as saying THIS FIC ROX. Neither one of them tells the author anything. Whereas if you say, "I'm sorry, I had problems with your fic and here are my specific reasons," then the author can mull them over and decide whether or not this feedback is useful to her.

I mean, if somebody says my fics suck, that just makes me feel bad. Whereas if they say, "Look, I can't read Lucius/Draco, it upsets me, and the particular way you do it is so creepy that it really upsets me" (or: "Your writing style is too compact for me and it interfered with my enjoyment of the story"), then this is something I can think about for when I write my next fic. And I can ask myself if now, given what I know about this reviewer's likes and dislikes, if they are really my intended audience, anyway.

Re: idea! (part two -- less long, but no less pretentious)

[bookshop.livejournal.com]

i am exhausted from sitting here waiting for LJ to fucking LOAD all night so please forgive me for being terse, S. i just want to clarify a few things:

No, honestly, I *don't* think I'm doing either fic a disservice when I rec them together. They're entirely different fics within *entirely* different genres of writing and NOBODY will think that I'm trying to say they possess an equal share of brilliance. It would be like me saying "I REALLY LOVE JOHNNY CASH!" and "I REALLY LOVE MOZART!" in the same breath. I think it's a perfectly legitimate expectation that I can love both of them equally without having to go into the whys and wherefores of *why* I love them, every single time I decide to talk about music. I mean, it's *just* fiction. I'm not making any pretenses to anything except saying "this is what i like, i think you'll like it too." whenever somebody gives me a horde of music recs and i go download them, i'm equally likely to come across something i detest as well as something i love, right? but yet i don't place any responsibility on the part of the music reccer to explain to me in advance *why* i was going to love one and not the other. so why is it such a big deal for fic reccing? i just am not seeing the connection.

I *totally* agree with your saying that reader feedback and critique is more helpful than saying "i just don't like this"--but again i think that should be left for the review and not the rec.

*holds head* am i making *any* sense?

Re: idea! (part two -- less long, but no less pretentious)

[spare-change.livejournal.com]

For example, while I haven't yet finished your story, I found the prose to be really tight and vivid and convincing (as usual). At the same time, though, your fic to me reads a lot like the summary of a much longer fic. Sometimes this kind of condensation can work, but here it felt too rushed. I felt like some of the paragraphs could have been entire chapters ... and they would have been chapters I would want to read. I didn't want things to move so quickly ... there was a lot of exposition.

As for Draco and the quotes: this isn't really a Draco I can get behind. Which is not to say that you shouldn't write him that way ... but you know I prefer things on the nasty/petty side of the spectrum.

And of course I don't like saying this, and I don't want you to feel ":( S liked some of my other fics better than this one," but at the same time, I wasn't really your audience here. You were writing it for Maya, who has very different ideas and expectations of what an H/D fic should be. There isn't ever going to be one fic that can please everyone, so why should you worry?

So all recs need to do, IMHO, is just say, "Hey, you folks who like X? This is some good X." And why should you worry about appearing intelligent? We already know you're intelligent. Making your own preferences and biases clear (i.e. I will read even bad Lucius/Harry noncon, because ... HELLO? IT'S LUCIUS/HARRY NONCON!!!!), doesn't make people lose respect for you. It just makes them say, "Okay, Aja likes the fluff, so this group of fics that she recs as 'Ones That Made Me Smile' probably aren't going to do it for me." I mean, I seriously doubt that this sort of categorization is going to spark a fandom flamewar.

Again, while I sympathize with the anxieties and insecurities you're expressing here, in a way I just kind of don't get it. Recs aren't about you ... they're about linking up readers and writers. That's all! That's why I think these comments about elitism are totally irrelevant.

And please don't fret about the Potter Slash Awards. I think the entire premise is complete bullshit and it's just a pathetic and transparent excuse for giving the same handful of people the same ego strokes. This time would be much better devoted to publicizing new writers. I actually went to the site and voted "None of the above" for each category; the whole thing makes me really angry.

It's far better to aim for pleasing the folks whom *you* most respect, and while I can't speak for everyone, I think that some of your fics are amongst the very, very best in fandom ... I would put them right next to Rhod's or Olympia's or whomever else one might want to name. So stop smiting yourself, okay?

Now i dead from, whatever. :D

[bookshop.livejournal.com]

If recs aren't about *me* the reccer, then I should feasibly be able to say whatever I want and get away with it, because I wouldn't have to take into consideration that I have two different kinds of audiences that I am reccing for. Does that make sense? Yes of *course* recs are about connecting the fic and the reader, and especially about promoting under-read authors, but at the same time, if someone who *only* ever reads H/D, who is only *known* to H/D fans, went and recced exactly the same crop of fics that I did, you wouldn't care, because you most likely wouldn't be reading their journal at all. They wouldn't necessarily have to anticipate the tastes of a non-H/D fan when they rec. I wasn't trying to say that the fic reccing is all about me; what I'm saying is that while the fics are the important part, the reccer determines the packaging; and when the person reccing the fics is trying to satisfy a bunch of different expectations at once, then the packaging gets muddled. That, for better or worse, creates a certain amount of pressure, at least for me.

And I'm not talking about elitism, I'm talking about satisfying expectations. The reason I mentioned the Potter Slash Awards was the same reason I mentioned the 'intelligentsia' to begin with--not because I feel excluded, I don't--what I was saying was that the bottom line is that I will never be able to satisfy certain audiences with my writing. I know that and I don't try to. I just write the way I want to, and I write what makes me happy. Why should it be any different with fic reccing?

You talk about aiming for pleasing the people whom I most respect--but many of the writers and reviewers whom I respect very very highly in this fandom barely know me from Adam, and certainly have never read my writing, and aren't liable to pay any attention to my fic recs. At the same time, though I have said I will try to be more categorical with my fic recs in future, I said it primarily out of *affection* for you and Reena, not out of a wish to gratify either of your aesthetic tastes.

Basically, it boils down to this: you would rather I rec things more conscientiously in order to please the people I respect; I would rather I rec things just as spastically as I have always done, in order to please myself.

:)

As for your comments on The Reader, I understand all of them, and am gratified by your feedback. I had specific reasons for using the pacing I chose for the story, and of course the Draco was written specifically with Maya's take on him in mind--he was meant to be noble for her, not anyone else, as you rightly pointed out. I am as always delighted that you would take the time to read anything I wrote, and *please* don't feel bad about saying what you said--I took no offense at all; in fact a part of me is *always* humbled that you don't think my fics are pure trash--let alone that you think I am in any way a decent writer next to yourself and so many others around here whom I admire.

You don't generally have to worry about upsetting me, S. I hold you in deep affection and even deeper respect, as I hope you have figured out by now. :D

Re: Now i dead from, whatever. :D

[spare-change.livejournal.com]

:D

Okay, so I managed to dig out The Reply That I Spent Half an Hour Trying to Send Yesterday:

...

Well, I don't think we need to run this subject into the ground, but I guess it depends on the point of the rec.

If the point of the rec is to say: I like all these fics, then yes, your strategy works.

If the point of the rec is to link up fics with readers who will approach them with expectations that are appropriate to the author and the fic -- expectations that will allow them to appreciate the fic for what it is and not be frustrated with what it isn't -- then no. I do think it is worth letting the readers know that TTOTSP and All Bets Are Off are entirely different fics within *entirely* different genres of writing. Because right now, your recs don't do that, and that was really all I was asking for.

Because it is a waste of the readers' time and goodwill not to let them know what they are in for. I mean, starting a multi-chaptered fic is a bit of investment, if ultimately the reccer knows it isn't going to pay off for certain kinds of readers.

But I think that may be the reason why we both kind of aren't "getting" the other person's point ... we just see the purpose of recs differently. Does this make sense to you? My own personal stakes are different from yours: I try to represent the fics accurately, and in so doing, I try to straddle the balance between tact and honesty to the best of my ability. But when people say -- as they do, from time to time -- What a crappy fic, you're such an idiot (this is usually my close friends), I just say: Look, I already told you what this fic would be like and you went ahead and read it anyway. So if it doesn't satisfy your crapass artsy ficlet standards, then tough shit. Seriously.

I dunno ... maybe I don't care about appearing intelligent precisely 'cos I have this stupid intellislasher label, which makes NO SENSE given that I write smut and folks like [person who is not on IS archive #1] and [person who is not on IS archive #2] write the most ridiculously pretentious fics that are all section breaks and dictionary definitions and COMPLETELY INCOMPREHENSIBLE and yet everyone applauds them. Whereas they harsh on my sad little Death-Eater orgy fics as eitist, incessantly. Whatever.

So I don't have any investment in appearing "smart" to fandom as either a reccer or a writer. My concerns are just with being fair and honest when I state my opinions of fics, and writing stories that the few folks that I admire will like.

Why the fuck should I care what a bunch of high school students think? My god. And why should you? Anyone who doubts your intellect is a fucktard, Aja. I really mean it. Worry about proving yourself in RL, where it counts.

<333333333

Re: idea! (part two -- less long, but no less pretentious)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

wah, aja.
*hughughug*
i'm sorry to have brought this up now. i didn't mean -you-, like at -all- with this post. i trust you even if and when you rec things i don't like, simply because often enough -i- rec things people i respect don't like, (as in, `lustre' and penguin's work and i mean, there are people who don't like everything and anything). i myself empathize, because i've loved and linked to plenty of fics at one point that make me shake my head now, looking back. i link to a number of happy-fuzzy harry-wuvs-drako-and-they-fuck fics... though not as much these days. but i dig it, y'know. i'm part of the audience for your recs, even though a number of them whizz by me.

but then....
dude. you must realize this-- the h/d section of the fandom doesn't -have- an intelligentsia, not really an h/d intelligentsia. we have people -associated- with the h/d-ers who have -at one point- read/written h/d, but most of them are -really- not into it now. most people who'd consider themselves discerning and are elitist are into h/s and weasleycest and deatheater orgies or whatever. there is simply no -way- to pander to them and link more than 3 h/d fics a year, dude. *hugs*
it's not your fault, in other words.

most people who write h/d -now- are plebes. the selection isn't that -wide-. and since some of us still -want- to read new fics, there's really nothing one can do -but- read with one's "elite alarms" lowered. if you're unable to lower your standards, you simply wouldn't survive as an active h/d fan in practice, i think. now, anyway.

i never meant to imply that only "long, articulate reviews" are valid or needed. and again, i think you're fine, personally, even though your recs don't always hit the spot, you rec -so much-, naturally a number of them do merely by statistical likelihoood. heh. i was mostly ranting at people who rec one thing at a time, obviously -mean- to pimp this particular fic, and they manage to make it sound completely bland and devoid of personality and fire and -meaning-. this is really almost an unrelated issue. almost.

when you -have- given commentary or critique, i've always found it very intelligent and competent and balanced. and i do trust my own opinion, so i hope you believe me, heh.

your enthusiasm and romanticism is naturally going to turn off some of them more jaded, skeptical part of the population, and there's no way to avoid that. there's that "can't really have your cake and eat it too" thing here. there isn't really any inherent -superiority- in being jaded & postmodern, you know. this is -fun-, this is -fanfic-. your fic & recs make a lot of people happy, and the people it doesn't cut it for aren't really in the market anyway.

i think your writing -does- speak for itself, and is often objectively brilliant, as far as fiction can be called objectively anything. you're a wonderful writer and you have an instinctual grasp of the dynamics of the characters. even so, you can't necessarily attract the people who want something else entirely from what you're offering. *sigh*
their loss, y'know~:)

Re: idea! (part two -- less long, but no less pretentious)

[bookshop.livejournal.com]

Okay, I am now officially dead from debate, but before I expire, just let me reiterate that while i don't totally agree with this, i wasn't limiting my comments about the 'intelligentsia' to just H/D--in fact i was trying to state the opposite: i meant that since most of the intelligentsia *isn't* h/d-centric, and since most of them *aren't* going to be reading my journal, why should i have to cater to a more intelligentsia-esque understanding of what my recs should be?

does that make any sense at all?

gah. am so brain dead. livejournal has KILLED me tonight with its slow load times. KILLED ME LIKE A BUG.

Re: idea! (part two -- less long, but no less pretentious)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

*is kinda tired too* heh.
nah, i wasn't saying you -should- do anything, was i? i wasn't ranting about you, and tried to reassure you of that from the start, but er... i'll just say it again-- don't worry, be happy, just keep on truckin'. or something like that. without the trucks. i don't like trucks.

*pats*
here, i'll try to (finally!) post my review :D :D

eheheheh.

Re: idea! (part two -- less long, but no less pretentious)

[bookshop.livejournal.com]

haha, yes, the ultimate lesson to be learned from all this is that i should NEVER STOP TO PARTICIPATE IN DEBATES. but i did kinda have fun when i wasn't tearing my hair, lol. anyway, now i have seen your review on my email, freaked out a lot, and am going straightaway to read it. :D THANK YOU. <3!