[too busy writing your tragedy]

[reenka]

Whenever I feel angsty, I think about H/D. It's like... I could always make cute pointless posts, but somehow I'd rather read manga instead. But when it comes to pointless philosophizing on the nature of nothing & make-believe sex, I'm never quite too exhausted. Man. I should start actually watching TV so I can write fic about it or something but dude, it's TV. I'd have to leave the computer. It's... in the other room. You know how it is. No, actually TV makes me feel a little too brain-dead, like... cracked-out but not enough.

I was actually messing about trying to write a post about how flexible I think things could theoretically be with this uke/seme and/or top/bottom business, but then I realized I don't care, because if it was relevant, then I wouldn't be interested anymore. Like, if you can fit someone in a box, they're not the sort of character I want to think too much about (unless it's a very pretty box that has sweets in it... of the Reena's Stereotypical Sex Object variety). I think for me it's like... I don't like for anything to be absolutely guarranteed, totally certain. Any dynamic that doesn't change seems stagnant to me as a reader, anyway... but that's a personal preference thing.

I'm currently in love with this manga called 'I Won't Be Your Stepping Stone', and dude. Dude. Uncertainty, obsession, aggression, frustration, rejection, possession, molestation, crazed need and utter bastards-- all the good stuff, none of the fat! It's the story I always go for: sex-obsessed (read: desperate yet repressed) overthinking (yet really stupid) arrogant (read: insecure) bastard meets match in fiesty, impulsive free-spirited type who can give as good as he gets. Ahhh, sweet obsession. The scary thing is, this reminds me of some fanon!H/D I've read. o_0 That's sort of... disturbing now.

I think I've largely been in fandom to read fanfic, yeah, but it's not because I like the characters. I mean, I may or may not like certain characters on a personal level, but this doesn't quite have to do with whether I compulsively seek out fic about them. To be more precise, I need to deeply obsessed with the theme I feel like a certain character represents in order to be constantly driven to read (but especially write) about it. I mean, there are definite patterns in the types of characters I feel most drawn to, but it's not that I admire them at all-- like, I definitely have never admired Draco, and Draco's been pretty much the reason I got into fandom and kept reading fic.


It just occurred to me that that's at least partly why I've been feeling a disconnect with the community aspect of things now that the 'old-style' fic is all but gone. There are still people who love Draco & Harry and Harry/Draco, but I don't identify with them.... I don't love Draco, and if I did, I wouldn't need to share it with anyone (like, I don't need to share my feelings on Harry with anyone, since they're just kind of there). I'm not a fan of him as a character or anything; it's just that he's got this connection to some ideals in my head... for the longest time, I envisioned Draco as the endless quintessential Seeker-- one who seeks, searches, needs something desperately in life. See, Harry actually attains things in the end-- it's Draco who's driven, and purely by base emotion-- no higher ideals, no distracting uber-quest, nothing but raw emotion. And somehow I get the feeling all the actual fans aren't in it for the 'watch Draco want things he can't have' theme bit. It doesn't matter if he fails, because life's not about whether you win or lose-- it's about trying; about always seeking the next horizon, always pursuing your dream, your obsession, your best destiny.

I just love this unquenchable, endless (eternal?) active pursuit of what you need-- and I love that ideal of soul-deep need. That concept that if you want, you do everything you can to take, because need is everything. And of course I adore conflict (in fiction); the bigger the obstacles in front of a character, the better! I mean, on a gut level I don't understand those people who want romance (...or life) to be easy. Because what good is anything if it's easy? How would you appreciate it if it came too naturally?

On some level, I don't want the desired thing to ever actually be obtained-- I don't know if I want Draco to be content, because if he has what he wants, he bores me as a character, but it goes beyond that-- once obtained, the desired thing in general is no longer attractive to me. I mean, theoretically I want that to be possible on the horizon, yeah-- but always on the horizon, at the very edge of the world where the ocean drops off into heaven. I want that horizon to always, always recede, so that he (my archetypical Seeker) could always seek it. I mean, this is way beyond Draco & Harry-- this is how I see life, the universe & everything, pretty much. It's a process of wanting and needing and never quite satisfying that greed which drives us, but attaining happiness in merely the living, the day-to-day conflicts and joys and changes, the tiny victories and the commonplace beauties.

This is a painful destiny I envision, isn't it-- and it's a painful reality quite often, too. But that's what makes it beautiful, isn't it? That pain, that prickle that wells up the drop of blood, that thorn on the rose. We can, none of us, ever quite touch each other. There is always language in the way, always misunderstandings, missed signals, crossed wires, different expectations, ruined hopes, and baggage, baggage, baggage. The future is waiting for us, waiting to swallow and not spit back out again, because-- well, because there's no way back. No way into the past, no way to cross the same river, no way to return, not even to ourselves.

EDIT - I think I see H/D as both negative & positive in its effects-- they kinda go together in my head.... I can never decide which way it's really supposed to go, in the end-- because it's really like there -can't- be an ending in my meta vision, I guess. I didn't mean to focus so much on the hopelessness & negativity-- it's both hopeless and hopeful, both raw & vital as blood and hazy and untouchable as smoke. Always dancing on the edge, knives out and hearts never safe.
~~

Also: I've found Lililicious, which is a manga scanlation group only for femslash! Yeay!
    Random: I've just watched the first 30 seconds of the opening to Bleach, and the main character's this grumpy spiky-redhead dude that reminds me of Kyou, and I think I'm already in love... or lust... or something <3

Comments

[notrafficlights.livejournal.com]

but dude, it's TV. I'd have to leave the computer.

Preach it, sista.

I Won't Be Your Stepping Stone

Heh, that manga cracks me up like fuck.

Pah.

And somehow I get the feeling all the actual fans aren't in it for the 'watch Draco want things he can't have' theme bit.

That's one of the uber-best kinds of Draco. I love that Draco! It's very canon too, because in canon, Draco never gets what he wants in the end, even if he is a VIP to the story and Harry's actions.

*goes back to watching Harry & Draco's bastard lovechildren fight in animeland*

Word up on the shoujo ai. Oohhh, they have Rose of Versailles. *loffs that show* AND ONIISAMA-E! *dances like the sad little fangirl she is*

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Oh Stepping Stone <3<3 It's ruined me for most mangas with girly ukes even more :(( Why can't -all- ukes be tough-assed no-nonsense construction workers?? :))

...Man. I found the shoujo-ai while searching for one Obsession did... which I couldn't find to download :( Ahhh, Toffee Pattern. Even though now there's more variety to choose from, naturally I still want the first thing I saw, because I'm a nostalgic nut like that :>

[bookshop.livejournal.com]

*attempts to clumsily type on broken keyboard at you*

It just occurred to me that that's at least partly why I've been feeling a disconnect with the community aspect of things now that the 'old-style' fic is all but gone. There are still people who love Draco & Harry and Harry/Draco, but I don't identify with them....

dude. i realized this exact same thing last night while wondering why I liked certain shippers but found them really grating for some reason, and it was because, I realised, 1/2 the people on my flist are new-school (post-ootp) shippers who see the ship completely differently from me. And it does make me feel disonected, and I only just realized it last night, so i was sort of stunned to see you say what i've been thinking.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Haha, the funny part is, I dunno if they're the unrealistic/deluded ones or we are :)) I think it's at least partly us, unable to let go of the ideals & vision we started with, y'know, which might not -fit- anymore, but we loved it too well & too long to really let it change, or something, because if it changed it wouldn't be -H/D- on some gut level anymore.

On the other hand, most 'new' people don't really seem driven by ideal, anyway, and their fanon Draco seems more ridiculous post-OoTP... like, I know there was always fanon Draco, but now it really seems like he's gotten more ridiculous and out there... mostly 'cause he's gotten so much more hopeless in canon, right.

At some point, perhaps it is okay to leave, if only to preserve the vision one loves within oneself :-?

[ztrin.livejournal.com]

Yay! Femslash! I've been searching for a site like this forever. Am eternally grateful. <333

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Heee! :D! There's even colored stuff like Maka Maka! :D I was all like WHOAH, I MUST GET THE WORD OUT NOW!! >:D <333!

[shaggirl.livejournal.com]

Hmm, so you think new school shippers want to coddle Draco? Wrap him up and keep him safe? I can see that. It'll be interesting to see how HBP changes the dynamic.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Well, I think people who are actual fans of Draco had always wanted to give him what he wanted and just project themselves onto Harry in this case (thusly all the bottom Harry fics, I guess). I don't know if it's purely post-OoTP so much as post-the-first-flush-of-H/D-writers.

Like, okay... there's probably a link between torturing Draco in the DV sense and writing him in a way I really like, but... mostly things got less -grand-, or something. Perhaps it's because Draco became manifestly less important to Harry, so you -can't- write him the same way without it reading painfully OOC. Somewhere along the line, even with all the fanon glorification, he's become just another character, not really suited to carry overly convoluted heavy darkfics about loss & hope & redemption. He's gotten... ordinary, and the pairing has in general, I think, and that's... I don't think there's any return from that 'cause it'd be back-tracking.

Though I say it doesn't matter whether Draco wins or loses, it's important that he's poised near the center in some way, of at least Harry's world. I guess there's still worship of him and such, but it seems... more hollow or shallow or something, I'm not sure. As Harry becomes more and more the Seeker in canon, Draco becomes... a shadow of himself.

[bookshop.livejournal.com]

methinks this calls for an email. :))

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Well, I have nothing to add on the H/D stuff for obvious reasons. I have noticed that, even in my own subfandom, you've got pre and post-OotP schools of thought, though. And most of the happyfluffypuppy stuff comes from pre-OotP folks, at least in my experience.

All of which is really just a setup for me to ask where I can find this manga because now I'm curious.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Y'mean Stepping Stone, not Bleach, right~:)) Well, the former is here (http://www.geocities.com/xlemathax/download.htm) :D :D :D :D TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK :D :D :D :D (...though, uh... I should warn you there's a lot of sex, ehheheh... but y'know, hot sex, even if rather gratuitous sometimes.)

Heh, you don't need to ship H/D to comment, do you? My philosophy of it is so generalist anyway. But with H/D it's the opposite-- it got fluffier post-OoTP ^^;;; 'Cause I guess OoTP was so hopeless, people just gave up trying to be realistic or something. Not that there wasn't fluff before, but the whole ideal was different, if nothing else 'cause most of the intellislashers wrote H/D first... basically -everybody- wrote H/D first, so there's lots of experimental fic... not necessarily IC or whatever, but passionate, idealistic, driven. These days it's more like purely masturbatory, in denial & drowned in repetition.

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

*latelatelate*

It's not so much a question of not shipping H/D; I don't even not ship them, really (I mean, I don't ship them, but I don't not ship them. If you know what I mean). It's more like, I don't really know of what you speak, since I don't read the H/D stuff, so I have no idea where the pairing was or is. I'm not even sure what change you mean, really - having never read the first wave, and probably being incapable of ever doing so because of my canon hangup.

It's interesting though, because you and Aja are both talking about this phenomena, and it brings to light a thought that I've been having, really, in regards to R/S. Which is, you can really tell who started shipping them before OotP as opposed to after, basically by 1) the way they see the characters and 2) how they feel about the overall story. But especially 1, actually. Because many people wrote/read them in fanfic for so long before OotP that those versions of them became very stuck in their brains, and as such they're still essentially writing pre-OotP stuff, except with the updated canon layered on top.

And it's interesting. It makes me wonder what the new book will do to the fandom. There's bound to be another wave of new ways to look at things, and then you'll have like, the old school and the medium school and the new school. I'm not really sure it'll happen with R/S, since Sirius is dead and all (depends, I suspect, on whether we get more Marauders info) but I'm sure it'll happen with the other pairings with major characters in them.

Basically any pairings where we're likely to see dynamic shifting. H/D will, I suspect, get yet another major flavor shift.

/rambling me.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Oh, but I wasn't talking about fic so much as my um, meta-vision & so on. I mean, I think you're right-- you can tell when someone entered fandom through how they conceive of the characters, but.... I mean, I think my views/interpretations of Draco & Harry -have- shifted naturally since OoTP, and the problem I have with a lot of H/D writers/shippers is that theirs haven't, and yet they've become more shallow. It's not like they have a -different- vision, it's like, they don't -have- a vision anymore.

But yes, I think OoTP had a huge impact on Harry ships of all sorts, since if anything lots of people disliked OoTP!Harry or were just confused by him & didn't know where to take him afterwards. Like, everyone agreed he was angry, but people either decided to somehow sweep that under the carpet in their fics or make it a parody or an excuse to have him abuse people. *sigh* So it seems to depend, also, on whether most people can really process or understand the changes.

I know what you mean about updated canon, though, since so many WIPs after OoTP said they'd 'update' themselves with new info, as if you can just add little factual details and make it OoTP-informed fic. *laughs* Yeah, right ^^;

[stellabelle.livejournal.com]

I should start actually watching TV
No you shouldn't, because right now all TV is is Valentine's Day ads which are reminding me that I am going to DIE ALONE. Not that I am bitter. Sometimes I'm accused of it, but more likely I'm just hungover. Or something. Yeah, anyway. But see, you aren't missing out on anything cause I don't really think there's that much stuff on TV right now that's inspiring enough to want to write fic about. But maybe that's just me...being apathetic & lazy, haha.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Ahahah, but everyone on my friendslist is talking about like... Lost & the O.C. & Alias 'n'stuff. And by 'everyone', I really mean addictedkitten :)) Though I'm more likely to write anime fanfic if anything. Mmmmm, Bleach :9
Plus, you might die alone but you'll be RICH IN PORN, think about that <3

[stellabelle.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I love O.C., mainly because, um, Seth & Ryan TOTALLY LOVE EACH OTHER. And Seth is my baby daddy. I mean, I watch that show just for him. Heee! I should command you to watch, cause it's on tonight, if you don't already. Seth is obsessed with comic books. SEE? Doesn't it sound appealing? ;) And also, I like Alias, but I forgot to watch the first two episodes this season so I'm completely lost (cause it moves so fast).

Alas, I feel that I cannot be rich in porn, because, like, I'm not even writing any right now. WHICH IS SAD. And by 'sad', I mean 'good for the sake of humanity'. I've been really easily distracted this month (and also, always)...like, 'oooh, the weather is nice!' & so my writing gets put on hold. I haven't even been reading anything, either. Like, I usually read fic when I'm feeling lazy, and lately I've been so lazy I can't even do that, haha. But yeah. <3!

Tom Bombadil as Nondualistic Examplar

[slackananda.livejournal.com]

Hi,

You don't know me, but I believe we both think we are an inseparable part of the single thing which makes up all that exists and is better described as nothing. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I just barely stopped myself from deleting the above. I'm weird and can't help it. I question my weirdness, however, and find I am in truth disturbingly normal.

I recently added 'the fool' to my ever-changing LJ interests and found your journal. I've added you as a friend. I'd tell you why, but I finally figured out how causation completes the illusion of spacetime, binding being in form. It happened, but it doesn't mean anything. :P

I just posted a quotation concerning Tom Bombadil (http://www.livejournal.com/users/slackananda/169649.html) to my journal. A link and a comment later and suddenly, my entire interpretation of Tolkien's theme became complete, 'in my noodle' at least. I thought you would be particularly interested in this as the avatar of non-dualism.

I find commenting on LJ has grown ever more stagnant. I am here (on LJ) to express, not to argue, though I love upfront criticism or refutation. I love randomness and enjoy using commenting as free association. I never expect a comment in my journal and I never expect replies to any comments I leave.

Random: I am interested in online interactive fiction collaboration, particularly dialogue creation through LJ.

Discussion point: (optional, of course, but included for convenience.) Have you been frustrated by the LJ Memories feature being unavailable? I have. I was using it to collect links for all the themed posts I've been planning....

Re: Tom Bombadil as Nondualistic Examplar

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Hi~:)
I don't know if I believe in nothing, though I suppose some regions of the cosmos have very little, erm, activity. Mostly I believe people say things like 'nothingness' when they mean 'lack of higher brain function', 'sensory deprivation' or perhaps just death (which again defines by using its opposite as default). Um. Sometimes I think I'm shockingly normal too, but then I remember most people are a lot more 'normal' than me :))

Yeah, I suppose we are all part of the cosmos at large. Though this particular section-- my lj, I mean-- is decidedly skewed towards the Harry Potter slash side of the, er... rainbow(?). I say this 'cause people randomly find me sometimes and friend me and such & then unfriend me when they realize I mostly talk about gay porn here(...) so I'm trying to be upfront :)) Well, if I'm honest, it's more like, 'the various and sundry overintellectualizations one can apply to gay porn' ^^;;; All right, but since none of this means anything, I guess we'll just see... or something.

...I still haven't read the LoTR. Um, I even took a class on it in school last semester... though perhaps that's why I didn't read it. Um. I have seen the movies, however :> And read his essay on fairy-tales and his one short story, if that... er, counts for anything.

I usually reply to comments 'cause it's fun to um, talk to people & stuff. Not really with intent to argue, just... talk. Since otherwise I'd still have my little blog at pitas where no one ever said hi. But as you like it :D

I suppose fandom (which I'm in... since this is a fandom journal...) counts as interactive fiction collaboration, in a way. It's fun :D Though it's not usually a literal thing, more... um, meta-collaboration.

And I didn't actually notice the memories being gone, myself. Mostly 'cause I've been avoiding lj addiction in favor of comics addiction lately :>

Re: Tom Bombadil as Nondualistic Examplar

[slackananda.livejournal.com]

I'm starting to realize how 'out there' I am in terms of communication. In this case, it seems to have worked out fine.

It's interesting you mention 'meta'
metametacomm

This one's for fun:
cropsquares

As far as "not meaning anything" that's my pseudo-intellectual side trying to justify randomness.

'the various and sundry overintellectualizations one can apply to gay porn'

I wouldn't say I'm particularly interested in gay porn, but various and sundry overintellectualizations are a fascination of mine, and ought to be enjoyed in any context.

I feel like I have given the impression I have vaguely 'come out' here:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/slackananda/120144.html

I feel like it sounds like I'm hedging a bit ("and what if I were...."). If anything, I'm out of the closet as a recovering homophobic, which I can trace to a variety of sources, primarily the desire not to be called a 'fag.' It's unfortunate that people associate 'homophobia' with 'hate crime violence.' Homophobia is only one factor in an extremely sick complex that leads to that.

I'm mostly a fan of myself, which has no doubt contributed to my isolated conditions. :P That is, I write and think my own thoughts and pay woefully little attention to anything else.

comics addiction?
http://www.livejournal.com/users/slackananda/145972.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/slackananda/146696.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/slackananda/150140.html

Re: Tom Bombadil as Nondualistic Examplar

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

The 'gay porn' thing is vaguely self-deprecating on my part, since I er... I don't -mean- to 'over-intellectualize', I just... say what I think and I think other people think I overthink. Or something. I tend to talk about stories/art moreso than porn (since what is there to say about that, really), but... well, I don't like to take things too seriously. Hahah also I figure the porn thing would scare most non-hardy types away :> Not to say I don't like gay porn, but really I mean slash... like, pairing hetero male fictional characters together for fun and nonprofit :D And also because I like to torture them, etc. Man... I'm so removed from the real world by now, it's like... intellectually I know it sucks to be gay out there, but emotionally I'm just like, "BUT IT'S HOT". Ah well. It's probably not as hot if you're not talking about gorgeous boys in Quidditch uniforms...? :> (I get carried away, yes.)

I seem to have some talent for understanding various and sundry modes of communicating, though mostly 'cause of much experience dealing with geeks of all feathers. People aren't really that hard to understand if they're vaguely sane, though that's a judgment call :>

By 'comics' in this case I meant manga, as in, Japanese comics :D Though I love plain old comics too, it's harder to find them online & I don't actually -want- to read them scanned for some reason. I tend to go for non-mainstream Vertigo-type & independent stuff, most recently Courtney Crumrin though that's pretty mainstream, actually ^^;;

Re: Tom Bombadil as Nondualistic Examplar

[slackananda.livejournal.com]

I think that other people think I think too much and sometimes I think that other people who think I think too much may be right because I often think I think too much myself. I've also been frequently accused of running away.

I am trying not to take things so seriously.
I can understanding scaring 'non-hardy' types away. I unlisted every last one of my LJ friends and started a huge flood on the first of this year, trying to drive away any who were too offended by seeing me too much on their friends view. It worked, and I have a greater confidence in the interest level of the friends who remained.

I seem to have some talent for understanding various and sundry modes of communicating

This is an important understanding. Currently, I feel the greatest 'serious' contribution I can make to the world takes the form of a book I have called (in envisioning it) 'The Steppenwolf Syndrome,' inspired by Hermann Hesse's book. The core of the idea has to do with how certain people combining high levels of intelligence, creativity and moodiness progress toward madness and self-destruction as social alienation increases in a fragmented and fake world, which is really a big drag to all involved. :P

My LiveJournal is how I kill my ego, as well as inflate it. I brag and then turn cut myself down at times, each of which diminishes my pride and moves me closer to clear expression.

Re: Tom Bombadil as Nondualistic Examplar

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Is there really such a thing as thinking 'too much'? I mean, only if it hurts you somehow 'cause you think instead of talking to people or eating or like... having fun. It's not like there's any way to stop without drugging yourself, sleeping or having sex all the time. And that doesn't necessarily stop it either. It's a bit like breathing, really :>

I think the biggest problem highly intelligent/creative people seem to have is a lack of development of interpersonal intelligence. Like, that seems to be a constant theme in what I've experienced of life so far, but 'average' people have the same problem, it's just they're not as extreme in their various traits so it all balances more. Perhaps it's also that alienation increases as community decreases and technology develops further. But I do think it's a fallacy that the world is any more fake or fragmented than it ever was... it seems like there's a much greater degree of communication these days, what with the Information Age & all that... it's just that a lot more people have either too little time to spend with their friends/families or too much time alone to have existential crises.

All in all, I'm stubbornly optimistic, I guess :>

Re: Tom Bombadil as Nondualistic Examplar

[slackananda.livejournal.com]

"I think the biggest problem highly intelligent/creative people seem to have is a lack of development of interpersonal intelligence"

Thank you for pinning this down in clear language. This is a central part of my theme. Have you read Steppenwolf? The answer isn't important as much as informative, in terms of common background shared.

'average' people have the same problem, it's just they're not as extreme in their various traits

I agree. My mind caused me problems, so naturally enough, I elevated it to blind superiority. I'm no better than anyone else (http://www.livejournal.com/users/ironicman/2953.html), but I used to think quite the opposite. I'm still getting over it. LJ interest: 'overcoming pretension through absurdity.'

I think it's a fallacy that the world is any more fake or fragmented than it ever was

I agree. This is a good example of how my LJ ramblings don't necessarily represent my exact thoughts, but serve to keep a general flow going. Most ordinary conversation is just alternating voicing the inner monologue. Hmmmm... a dialog of monologues. I like it. LJ is more appropriate for that. Plus, it creates an archive.

too little time to spend with their friends/families or too much time alone to have existential crises

I'm resisting including a lot of links to my journal entries. I'm learning it's not to important to mark every connection. Especially when there are many, it pays to keep moving ahead. This thought relates to a paradox that fuels depression. I have lots of time to spend with friends, but I don't really like to go anywhere. I could be happy with online interaction, but it comes back to the interpersonal skills. There is so much to establish. Look what we've been through on this thread. I think it's impressive, but it's a lot of work to have to go through to start a conversation. Since we both verbalize compulsively, it seems a conversation about conversing is conversationally correct, however. :P

Re: Tom Bombadil as Nondualistic Examplar

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I usually contradict myself nearly all the time, though I wouldn't later say that my earlier incomplete statements were 'incorrect' so much as... incomplete. Like, uh, that's where the non-duality comes in :> Though I'm used to people (who aren't me) saying stuff they don't really mean 'cause usually they have to think more in-depth before saying something with a high enough 'truth' value or something. I mean, even if I spout nonsense, that's really me-- I really mean that. I mean, while I think all the time in some ways, I don't think my thought is as rational/linear as people would assume through identification or something? I don't have to try to be absurd and yet I don't think I ever really am, actually :))

The online interaction thing... eh. It has its negatives & positives, and after 8 (...omg!!) years of doing it virtually non-stop, I have to say, even though I've met so many great friends here... it has more negatives than positives by a long-shot, especially for introverted types who abuse its ability to satisfy without really enriching oneself. Sure, one can subsist on lj, or irc or whatever... but it's a bit too close to living in a plastic bubble, which comes down to a lie. I'm only saying this 'cause I'm there, y'know, the hedgehog's dillemma & everything. Anything that drives one further away from one's senses can't really be a good thing.

I'm still kind of around 'cause I got attached to the people I knew, to the sense of community, to having friends which are harder to make in person for me, but. Meh. This is one instance where incomplete truth seems like... not enough, not for the amount of self-investment involved, at least in my experience. Then again, this is what happens after countless online friendships & relationships & nothing to show for it except a sense of tiredness, I guess >__<;;

Re: Tom Bombadil as Nondualistic Examplar

[slackananda.livejournal.com]

I read this a few minutes ago, flagged it, and then found I couldn't move on. I think it is best to take action when it seems needed rather than letting things stack up. At this point, this is likely to be fairly nonresponsive to your comment. As far as I'm concerned, the entire extent of our interaction on LJ could take place on this thread, or it could not. That really doesn't matter.

I find that the conversation we are having is bringing my ideas for metametacomm to the forefront of my mind. I created in October of last year and it's been sitting ever since, though I have always intended to return to it. The scope of the community as I envision it now involves communication and community development online, including overlap with RL ('real' life).

I do have some experience with LJ communities. I'm not involved currently, but I founded writingcritic, which is where I met lucretius. Currently, I'm still maintainer of poetrycritic, but I think I would like to turn that over rather than try to return to it.

I'd like to see if I can capture your imagination with the metametacomm idea. I am still in the process of defining it.

Anything that drives one further away from one's senses can't really be a good thing.

I agree about being driven from the senses. Sometimes it is good to withdraw in order to refresh their perception.

I am finding myself in the delicate position of believing in two realities. That is, two parts of myself have two different conceptions of what is real. My scientist is actually my sensual side, in the sense of empirical observation. My more 'spiritual' side appreciates the void, a very transcendent reality. I suppose it is a philosophy of nondualism that unites these two realities. This lets me follow the natural shift of my inclinations and the tendencies of my worldly outlook without sliding outside of the range of a philosophy I am already comfortable with.

[slackananda.livejournal.com]

I could always make cute pointless posts, but somehow I'd rather read manga instead.
That sounds wise.

But when it comes to pointless philosophizing on the nature of nothing & make-believe sex, I'm never quite too exhausted.
Isn't most 'real' life striving after rewards that exist in the future, a product of imagination? It's not a question of putting down real life, but realizing that most real satisfaction is imagined, imagined satisfaction is better because it doesn't disappoint in the process of fading. Also, it is less costly to change avatars than buy a new suit, even off the rack. :P

I should start actually watching TV so I can write fic about it or something but dude, it's TV.
I have a love/hate relationship with TV. I don't watch much now, but I go through my phases. Generally, I watch TV as an expression of self-loathing, at least when I really get into it, but it's been a few years. I do enjoy the Simpsons, however. There's a great book called The Simpsons and Philosophy which is amazingly profound, serious and funny all at the same time. I like trying to connect more 'lofty' ideas with popular culture. It helps me feel less pretentious.

I'm not hyper-verbal right now. Just saying hi, really. :P

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Man, that bit about imagined satisfaction is too right, and also depressing. *sigh* But then, no one tends to acknowledge what an integral part imagination plays in everyday life, and not just among 'imaginative' people. I think some people are more easily contented than others, though. Me, I can be content with a soft breeze and a nice cold drink, though I prefer to be out on a porch somewhere where there are trees. Sometimes I get happy just looking at the sky. It's all about where you set the boundaries of your imaginary world, and how much you feel you -need-. People get greedy-- I know I do... but in the end, I'm too addicted to all varieties of pleasure to be very picky. I think I'm just... odd in terms of my personal combination of sensualism & idealism, though ^^;;

I can't be bothered to watch much TV, though I used to be addicted when I was growing up, mostly to cartoons and sci-fi shows on the SciFi channel :> And then those major network shows like X-Files & ER & Babylon 5. And oh, movies. I adore movies, though TV's not so good to catch good movies :>

But hi :>

[slackananda.livejournal.com]

I think I'm just... odd in terms of my personal combination of sensualism & idealism, though

This is a topic of interest to me, particularly concerning the practical application of nondualism. If we 'are one with' objects of desire, what is the way to interact with objects? A lot of my thinking about what an 'object' is derives from pondering the term, 'sex object.' Money, I think, is a sort of formless object and the desire for it in its own right is equally vague.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I think 'sex object' is its own unique category in some ways. I mean, objects of desire are always 'other', always looked at apart from oneself, because the possessing of what is desired (contentment) is so antithetical to it in most ways. I think possession of... 'things' is different from possession of people, 'cause one can only delude oneself that one possesses people. Plus, a whole range of emotions other than purely pleasure come into play.

An desired object or state of mind can be something attainable, like a pleasant view or pretty shoes, or essentially unattainable & rooted in the imagination, like some aspect of a person. People often try to limit other people's being in order to feel more in control, I guess, more capable of controlling them, but in the end the control (implicit in making a sensient being into an object) is completely imaginary. On the other hand, there's a way in which the fantasy is a part of oneself beause in this case one originates it and sustains it with no real possibility of true cross-over into reality. As in, you can never really have what you think you want, since what you want is something you made up like the Easter bunny.

Anyway, it seems to have less to do with the mysteries of objects (...which don't actually seem to possess mystery) & more to do with the mysteries of people.

[slackananda.livejournal.com]

I agree about the unique qualities of 'sex object' compared to other objective divisions of unity. I think it is a question of 'relationship.' An inert material object is more capable of being possessed than a human being. It cannot object (an objecting object?!?!), move independently or demand to be fed. Also, too, there is a difference between possessing and owning. When a rich man takes his friends on a boat ride, do they all possess the boat? When the rich man pays to maintain his boat, he knows he owns it. Ownership is a burden, but I take possession to mean a more active relationship. Gollum would be a good example of this possessiveness.

My functional definition of happiness is the experience of unconditioned consciousness experienced in between successive thoughts. Objectively speaking, I define happiness is the time in between the fulfilment of one desire and the acquisition of another.

As I think about it more, I see increasing validity to your point about the differences between sex objects and other objects. Food, liquor and shoes are all generally attainable in a manner that meets expectations. That is, the desire may be safely be allowed to arise because it can be fulfilled without significant difficulty when it reaches its natural peak.

I like your example of a pleasant view as an object. Here it is an object as in 'object of the game' the game being, 'see that view.' There may be obstacles along the way and the climb for the view may prove to be ruined by incoming clouds. Clouds can be aesthetically pleasing as well. The question is one of expectations. If the object is to see a pretty sunrise, the journey does not bring happiness if a pretty sunrise is not seen. If the object is to climb the hill before dawn and experience dawn, then it is much harder to fail.

there's a way in which the fantasy is a part of oneself beause in this case one originates it and sustains it with no real possibility of true cross-over into reality.
There is a certain purity to this in that there are no outside factors to change the plausibility of the fantasy. Of course, this can lead to stagnancy as well.

you can never really have what you think you want, since what you want is something you made up like the Easter bunny.
Knowing this all along forms a certain amount of protection against disappointment. Sometimes when life is very hard, hope is dangerous because it opens vulnerability to disappointment.

Anyway, it seems to have less to do with the mysteries of objects (...which don't actually seem to possess mystery) & more to do with the mysteries of people.

I just struck three or four trite remarks and gave up. What you said. :P