w00t! pr0n! except not.

[reenka]

Ahhhh, stellabelle so owns me. Yeah, she wrote another H/D fic and yeah, I'm so in love with it I have to pimp it in this most embarrassing fashion. Ahem.

Possibly this might have to do with the fact that it's called `I Have A Girlfriend, You Fucker!'. I think this and this alone could make me fall over from the sheer beauty of it all.

Also, after the_leaky's unfortunate descent into angst, I so needed this, man. Besides, there are references to like, British things in it. Like... like Kensington. Oh, the love. As well as easy!Draco and rather-stupid-but-eager!Harry. The world really should work like this. I mean, it may not, but DAMMIT IT SHOULD. Actually, it -does-, doesn't it?

Comments

[malafede.livejournal.com]

(Whether or not they are IC matters to me, not sure if from a literary criticism standpoint, given that if he is not IC he is not Draco.)

(I have just made up a new word that makes me as happy as upgrade Draco. It is slashnormative.)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Harry likes being mean to Draco. -I- like being mean to Draco. It's a happy, happy thing. Ahhhhhhhh joy.

Ahem. Where was I?

IC is a very flexible, subjective thing. You can believe you know what 'IC' is with 100% certainty, but unless you're JKR and thus the author, what you have is an interpretation and an educated guess. A single reading among a plethora of readings. There can't really be a single, definitive entity called 'in character' Draco-- only a bunch of things you'd need to do a lot more explaining for than others. So as a lit-crit thing, people's perceptions are enough to make a study of almost any interpretation valid/interesting. Man... in fact, in most lit-crit movements, the extent things get taken seem actually more insane than in fandom (...and I'm not even a 'real' English major, but close enough to know).


I keep thinking about this whole 'upgrade' thing. Eh, I suppose it's true, but if so, I fully believe it's perfectly valid-- just as rehashing canon in one's fic is as valid as reinventing or extending it. To me, since I'm so far from plot-centric, it's difficult to extend canon through events-- I can only work on personality traits. I like writing about Draco because he's passionate, desperate, angry, needy, and doomed... so of course I want to take him to a new level. It's... implicit. If one -doesn't-, then I'd consider it a 'bleh' sort of fanfic, anyway. Characters should develop. Something should happen to them-- and yeah, hopefully it's a -positive- something, an upgrade, an improvement-- something that doesn't ruin their souls and mess up their minds. That'd be nice.

And yeaaah I like redeeming Draco, not from his 'evil', but from his future and the rut he's in and the choices he's not aware he's letting others make for him. It's not what most people call redemption, but it's what -I- call it. ...I just believe I can still be IC and do it :>

[malafede.livejournal.com]

The word redemption which describes a concept very dear to me in general terms has been completely ruined for me by the HP fandom. Draco needs to be redeemed from his future? By your same logic you don't know Draco's future if you aren't JKR. Plus, that's so unfair. I don't know whether Draco is going to fuck up splendidly in the future, but I am going to assume he will so I can sick some epic archetype on him that makes him look more romantic than an annoying everybrat.

The whole argument for "not there being an universal standard of ICness" makes my head hurt. Like, by your reasoning The Gentleman is IC too. Or Boyd Draco. There is a JKR's Draco Malfoy, if you ask any kid reading the books they will say everything about it.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Oh, he doesn't need to be redeemed, I just like envisioning it, because while I wouldn't claim his future is set in stone, I feel less than full of faith in the direction (whatever it is) JKR's about to take him in, or any fanfic writer I've seen, either. So... as long as it's not -my- future for him, I'm dissatisfied anyway. And I know I'm misusing the whole 'redemption' thing, but... I do believe he's trapped by himself, as we all are, and that he needs to grow up, as we all do, and that process of spiritual/personal growth-- that's redemption, to me. But even so, I'm not forcing it on anyone-- I mean, how could I? Even if I say, 'IT SHOULD HAPPEN OR FEAR MY WRATH!', I'm just joking, I don't expect anyone to be like, 'OMG REENA SAID DRACO MUST GROW UP, WE BETTER START WRITING FICS TO HER SPECIFICATIONS!!1' (...not that I'd -mind-, necessarily, but alas...)

Anyway, I don't want to go into the painfully obvious 'but no, that's not what I meant' with ICness since I've talked about it 18297439874 times and god am I sick of talking about Draco and HP canon AAAARGH. But.

I meant there's no standard outside of fact, but you can play with facts an awful lot, too, -if- you make things plausible & reasonable and tie various behaviors or occurrences to specific root causes in events from canon. If you're careful, you can -justify- a certain Draco by going from point A to B in the story-- just as long as he's got some basic consistency at the very least in Harry's perception of him and his behavior. There has to be a transition, but the base potential and motivators are largely open to lots of interpretation as far as causality.

I like epic archetypes. Eh. It's a Reena thing.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

That's a bit disingenerous. You did say that "it's uninteresting" and whether or not you intent to put the fic police together to ban the uninteresting fic off fandom you still expressed a value judgment. I was arguing against that, not that you were the evol force of censorship.

I really don't think personal growth is redemption. O_O I mean, is Ron's storyarc a redemption arc? That would be funny, actually.

And I mean, dude, I am all for The Bride Draco so I really am not so anal about change, I am just anal about total unrecognizability and rejection of the monster.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

!!!

I really don't think personal growth is redemption

Unless one says that it's redemption from the original sin, or maybe the Fake God's mistakes, which is something more along what makes me bouncy.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I know most people don't think so. I know this. I don't care, I like the word redemption so nyah, I'll use it my way-- I do this with lots of words.

Yes, this applies to Ron's arc. I think we all need to be redeemed in different ways, yes. Draco just needs more 'help' than Ron-- or Harry-- 'cause his author cares less about him and there's less material there in terms of plot-related things to help him.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

In related news...

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Because I want to make Draco into a hero or whatever says nothing about me wanting to reject the monsters. The hero's inner monsters (and Shadows) are always biggest, anyway. I like complicated stories and inner conflict-- I just also like people defeating or overcoming some obstacles even as they face new ones. I mean, -bad- writing would completely make a character unrecognizable, yeah, but that doesn't define the impulse to write a character into a certain direction by itself.

I only said it was uninteresting, yeah, from both a typical and a genre-convention standpoint... and yeah, personal too, but I was explaining as much as judging, if I was. Besides, I really do find D/P deeply uninteresting, ahahah, and have rationalizations the same way I do with everything, once I start :>

[malafede.livejournal.com]

You want to make Draco a hero?

See, I thought we were reaching a sort of compromise but that's truly evil. (:D <- in case you take the evil part seriously, which you could since it's seven am for you *evil glee*)

If you're a hero (literary construct) you can't be a monster. Now if you want to talk about subversion of literary constructs I am all ears. :D (<- another emoticon.)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I don't mean the sort of hero you see in Hollywood movies and even in `Snitch!'-- I mean the Hero's Journey-- the Campellian quest, I mean the Hero with a Thousand Faces, I mean the Fool. Fool = hero. I mean yes, I want to make him a center of his own story, which makes him a hero. I don't care if he 'does good' on some larger societal level-- if he becomes self-aware and in control of anything to any significant degree, he's a hero because he -could- do good.

I'm not overly invested in Draco being a monster-- I believe Harry's more a monster than he is-- I believe that Draco's just a child, too ickle and harmless to be a monster. Sure he could be perceived that way, but appearances are deceiving and besides, I have no patience with other people's false perceptions in terms of where I want to go with developing a character. People should stop seeing him as a monster, anyway, 'cause they're wrong.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

No, they aren't wrong. Those people are reclaiming the monster as an alien. As a child. As an harmless ickle everybrat.

I have no patience with other people's false perceptions in terms of where I want to go with developing a character.



I actually respond to your arguments as I perceive them, I don't have a secret agenda here. I like the hero with a thousand faces better, so I am glad I was wrong in thinking you meant heroic status as simply a main character status.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Well, so you're using monster in a unique way just as I'm using redemption in a unique way :> A monster can't be harmless to me, I sort of see that as the point of being monstrous. If you're harmless, you're ...not a monster. Alien is just misunderstood, different or unknown, monsterous is the manifestation of a sort of xenophobia in that case-- but I feel no need to use that definition so I don't. :>

By 'people's false perceptions' I meant fandom's take on Draco in general not shaping how I define my terms. I'm not accusing you of anything :>

[malafede.livejournal.com]

Am I? Reappropriating the term monster is a rebellion against demonisation; the theft of a character's humanity. I never say "Draco is misunderstood" to mean that he is a secret little angel, I say it to mean that he isn't the little devil mainstream imagery paints him as. And I know you don't care about mainstream imagery before you tell me, but I do, and that's why I use the word. If I am making up a new terminology it's just to point out that the whole monster business is a fallacy. Sort of like the word "queer".

Oh, good then. <3

[malafede.livejournal.com]

I fully believe it's perfectly valid

Plus, the thing is I agree with character developement being valid, and the only reason I am arguing this is that 1) "They're so predictable together it hurts." and "I'm saying that some things that are 'real' or common just aren't as interesting" which are all statements that make me twitch because it seems that in order to pump up your vision you choose to put down mine 2) I don't at all conflate development and upgrades. Characters are made to upgrade in order to make them shinier, they are made to develope in order to make them more human.

Also this whole "not enough, not enough, must upgrade" is what makes me avoid mainstream romance as the plague and consequentially makes me want to shoot myself in the head about fanon Draco.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Ah well, with the 'not as interesting' thing, I meant to explain why people (...this 'mass' who doesn't see the light of D/P and the normal sort of romance without uber-men) would dislike certain aspects of the pairing. Which aren't dramatic. So it's 'not as interesting' in a very particular way, and I say this as an observation of behavior, not a judgment on humanity.

...And anyway, I wouldn't use 'upgrade' as a term, myself, it's just that you use it on me & I resist as I'm able. I always said it didn't fit my plans for ickle Malfoy, right? :> But fanfic itself seems to be about a drive for -development-, which yeah, can be about canon/'as is' characterization not being 'enough'-- but that's not a slam on humanity, just the writer of said canon.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

But I have no problem with this "mass" (are you trying to make me sound l33t? Ahaha. I am not the one who spits on funny losers :/), I have problem with the rejection of it as objectively uninteresting - as a consequence of trends in pop culture that go far deeper than HP. Mainstream culture as a whole conflates lack of drama with lack of conflict. I use upgrade at you because when you talk about the Fool I agree and then have to headdesk when the Fool's journey as you describe it goes from personal to epic. :)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Oh, I suppose any two people will have conflict, but some are just not as romantic/dramatic/inspiring in your usual sort of romance which is what most people want to read. I mean, it's just, I always judge romance on its own terms and eventually you always say, 'but the very pillars of the genre are unacceptable', which is fine, all right, but also frustrating because after that there's nowhere else to go except 'oh well, that sucks'. I mean, yeah, but you wanna try changing this? Good luck. I mean, this is just HP, anyway-- there are other fandoms with other target audiences which would have this sort of pairing fare better, I'm sure.

As for going from personal to epic-- heh. It's a question of my personal obsession with fairy-tales, where the individual vision quest is epic-- basically, for me, the search for identity and Self is the definition of epic, and in most fairy-tales and legendary stories, it can only be undertaken alone. The Dark Night Of The Soul, etcetc. There's no 'special type' of person who can be epic-- that's what the Ivan the Fool archetype is all about. Take the least epic/worthy & make it worthy. That's the point of the myth :> I like this particular myth, that is all.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

But you don't need the epic level to make anyone worthy. :) Becoming an adult is a worthy battle in and off itself, whether you save the hero of the wizarding world in the process.

And I think I gave some specific as to why I think romance sucks; every time I give specifics. This time it was the whole "Draco and Pansy being predictable because they are heteronormative" assumption that I was arguing against. That is possibly a romantic premise that I disagree with.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I don't mean Draco needs to become epic to become worthy-- this is a judgment vs. a statement of preference and personal interest which is what I was making. I want to write/read that sort of fic-- I'm not saying that is the only sort of worthwhile fic. In fact, that would be silly of me to say. Very silly, in fact, because I have neither written nor read fic I consider to fit into that category in all this time, except maybepossibly the DT, and I haven't really read the DT mostly.

I am not claiming Draco better become an epic hero or else-- I'm not even saying what being an epic hero would entail except possibly saving Harry ala his actions in the_leaky recently. I don't see those actions as making him 'worthy' (worthy of what???!), only as exciting as a narrative device and direction for him to develop. This is not about him becoming the hero of the wizarding world-- I was talking about archetypes, not the wizarding world!! I never said anything about him saving the world! Only the person he loves! In fact, I specifically, purposefully said he wouldn't be a Frodo-style hero. That is what I meant. It's not about saving the world. That was my point.

This time it was the whole "Draco and Pansy being predictable because they are heteronormative" assumption
I never said that they were predictable -because- they were heteronormative. These things are parallel, not causative. I find them predictable because that sort of couple happens often in real life. 'Heteronormative' is a fiction term that refers to them being 'typical' for hetero couples and possibly them -defining- how heterosexuality works for a number of people. This has nothing to do with romance as a genre, it was only an observation about the type of couple D/P is and how reality works and how I find this predictable, personally. Myself, I can predict them. That is all, honest. I find H/D predictable but in a less blow-by-blow sort of way, which is good enough.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

Take the least epic/worthy & make it worthy. You said that, and I was supposing you meant they weren't worthy before the epic journey and I was arguing that the epic journey wasn't the only solution and the reason why I don't think it fits Draco is that its very nature seems to go against Draco's nature?

It's not about saving the world. That was my point.

Yes, but I got it you said for you a personal journey to adulthood wasn't enough either? That you needed some measure of heroism? Which, you know, you can need. Um, you don't need my permission to need. But me talking about it and the predominance of this ideal and my own issues with it also doesn't mean you need my permission to enjoy it or a judgment on you, and if we keep accusing each other or trying to censor the other this is not going very far. O_o

Like, you don't find D/P interesting, I do, we were talking about it. I am glad to hear it's your personal preference or slant; I already knew that. You just came off as writing it off objectively as uninteresting because it was not romance material. Can we go back to talk about that and possibly discuss the more social/psychological/literary issues it tangentially touches? Or, not go, given that you'd need drugs to go on at this point.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Well, the Hero's Journey fits everyone, basically, because it's a human thing-- the journey to adulthood/self-knowledge. As far as being 'unworthy', I meant that in the pre-self-realization stage, people aren't who they could be at their best, therefore I'm twitchy. They aren't -bad- or unlikable, just not done yet.

As far as the 'but he's whiny! and pathetic! and weak!' or whatever-- well, these things have been present in some heroes, like say... uh, in CS Lewis, you have Edmund and stuff. People start off childlike and then they bite the bullet and such like that, or they perish. Not that I want to kill all whininess everywhere and Draco is rather conflicted, I'd say, in terms of whether he's stoic (showing emotion) or whiny (over-expressive)-- I'd say he's both, ala bouncing-ferret scene.

I'd say taking on a quest for the sake of a loved one doesn't seem against Draco's nature, and besides, I find it touching and also I like that it goes against his nature 'cause that means he's going to go to interesting lengths to deal with how this new situation forces him to act/react.

I never said a personal journey to adulthood wasn't enough-- just that I like seeing it through the filter of fairy-tale, but I like seeing everything through the filter of fairy-tale and thusly you get journeys, quests, swords and such-like. 'Cause it's a fun story.

Eh, I meant it's not interesting as a romance fic, 'cause D/P implies these two characters in such a fic. But yes, now I'm scared my mom'll wake up any moment.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

You could just tell her you just woke up. >:D

he's going to go to interesting lengths

YOU USED THE EVIL WORD AGAIN!!! >:O

The sad truth is that theoretically I like this kind of story, and I'd love to read one about Draco, just not if it's meant to change what I see as the character traits that makes him... him. Lack of epic proportions being one. Plus, saving Harry is redundant to me, ahaha. Poor ickle martyr Harry, he's so oppressed even the canon characters who hate him go on quests to save him. /slant