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[personal profile] reenka
Ahhhh, [livejournal.com profile] stellabelle so owns me. Yeah, she wrote another H/D fic and yeah, I'm so in love with it I have to pimp it in this most embarrassing fashion. Ahem.

Possibly this might have to do with the fact that it's called `I Have A Girlfriend, You Fucker!'. I think this and this alone could make me fall over from the sheer beauty of it all.

Also, after [livejournal.com profile] the_leaky's unfortunate descent into angst, I so needed this, man. Besides, there are references to like, British things in it. Like... like Kensington. Oh, the love. As well as easy!Draco and rather-stupid-but-eager!Harry. The world really should work like this. I mean, it may not, but DAMMIT IT SHOULD. Actually, it -does-, doesn't it?

Date: 2004-11-28 04:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
Oh, he doesn't need to be redeemed, I just like envisioning it, because while I wouldn't claim his future is set in stone, I feel less than full of faith in the direction (whatever it is) JKR's about to take him in, or any fanfic writer I've seen, either. So... as long as it's not -my- future for him, I'm dissatisfied anyway. And I know I'm misusing the whole 'redemption' thing, but... I do believe he's trapped by himself, as we all are, and that he needs to grow up, as we all do, and that process of spiritual/personal growth-- that's redemption, to me. But even so, I'm not forcing it on anyone-- I mean, how could I? Even if I say, 'IT SHOULD HAPPEN OR FEAR MY WRATH!', I'm just joking, I don't expect anyone to be like, 'OMG REENA SAID DRACO MUST GROW UP, WE BETTER START WRITING FICS TO HER SPECIFICATIONS!!1' (...not that I'd -mind-, necessarily, but alas...)

Anyway, I don't want to go into the painfully obvious 'but no, that's not what I meant' with ICness since I've talked about it 18297439874 times and god am I sick of talking about Draco and HP canon AAAARGH. But.

I meant there's no standard outside of fact, but you can play with facts an awful lot, too, -if- you make things plausible & reasonable and tie various behaviors or occurrences to specific root causes in events from canon. If you're careful, you can -justify- a certain Draco by going from point A to B in the story-- just as long as he's got some basic consistency at the very least in Harry's perception of him and his behavior. There has to be a transition, but the base potential and motivators are largely open to lots of interpretation as far as causality.

I like epic archetypes. Eh. It's a Reena thing.

Date: 2004-11-28 04:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malafede.livejournal.com
That's a bit disingenerous. You did say that "it's uninteresting" and whether or not you intent to put the fic police together to ban the uninteresting fic off fandom you still expressed a value judgment. I was arguing against that, not that you were the evol force of censorship.

I really don't think personal growth is redemption. O_O I mean, is Ron's storyarc a redemption arc? That would be funny, actually.

And I mean, dude, I am all for The Bride Draco so I really am not so anal about change, I am just anal about total unrecognizability and rejection of the monster.

Date: 2004-11-28 04:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malafede.livejournal.com
!!!

I really don't think personal growth is redemption

Unless one says that it's redemption from the original sin, or maybe the Fake God's mistakes, which is something more along what makes me bouncy.

Date: 2004-11-28 04:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
I know most people don't think so. I know this. I don't care, I like the word redemption so nyah, I'll use it my way-- I do this with lots of words.

Yes, this applies to Ron's arc. I think we all need to be redeemed in different ways, yes. Draco just needs more 'help' than Ron-- or Harry-- 'cause his author cares less about him and there's less material there in terms of plot-related things to help him.

Date: 2004-11-28 11:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malafede.livejournal.com
In related news...








Date: 2004-11-28 04:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
Because I want to make Draco into a hero or whatever says nothing about me wanting to reject the monsters. The hero's inner monsters (and Shadows) are always biggest, anyway. I like complicated stories and inner conflict-- I just also like people defeating or overcoming some obstacles even as they face new ones. I mean, -bad- writing would completely make a character unrecognizable, yeah, but that doesn't define the impulse to write a character into a certain direction by itself.

I only said it was uninteresting, yeah, from both a typical and a genre-convention standpoint... and yeah, personal too, but I was explaining as much as judging, if I was. Besides, I really do find D/P deeply uninteresting, ahahah, and have rationalizations the same way I do with everything, once I start :>

Date: 2004-11-28 04:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malafede.livejournal.com
You want to make Draco a hero?

See, I thought we were reaching a sort of compromise but that's truly evil. (:D <- in case you take the evil part seriously, which you could since it's seven am for you *evil glee*)

If you're a hero (literary construct) you can't be a monster. Now if you want to talk about subversion of literary constructs I am all ears. :D (<- another emoticon.)

Date: 2004-11-28 05:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
I don't mean the sort of hero you see in Hollywood movies and even in `Snitch!'-- I mean the Hero's Journey-- the Campellian quest, I mean the Hero with a Thousand Faces, I mean the Fool. Fool = hero. I mean yes, I want to make him a center of his own story, which makes him a hero. I don't care if he 'does good' on some larger societal level-- if he becomes self-aware and in control of anything to any significant degree, he's a hero because he -could- do good.

I'm not overly invested in Draco being a monster-- I believe Harry's more a monster than he is-- I believe that Draco's just a child, too ickle and harmless to be a monster. Sure he could be perceived that way, but appearances are deceiving and besides, I have no patience with other people's false perceptions in terms of where I want to go with developing a character. People should stop seeing him as a monster, anyway, 'cause they're wrong.

Date: 2004-11-28 05:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malafede.livejournal.com
No, they aren't wrong. Those people are reclaiming the monster as an alien. As a child. As an harmless ickle everybrat.

I have no patience with other people's false perceptions in terms of where I want to go with developing a character.



I actually respond to your arguments as I perceive them, I don't have a secret agenda here. I like the hero with a thousand faces better, so I am glad I was wrong in thinking you meant heroic status as simply a main character status.

Date: 2004-11-28 05:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
Well, so you're using monster in a unique way just as I'm using redemption in a unique way :> A monster can't be harmless to me, I sort of see that as the point of being monstrous. If you're harmless, you're ...not a monster. Alien is just misunderstood, different or unknown, monsterous is the manifestation of a sort of xenophobia in that case-- but I feel no need to use that definition so I don't. :>

By 'people's false perceptions' I meant fandom's take on Draco in general not shaping how I define my terms. I'm not accusing you of anything :>

Date: 2004-11-28 05:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malafede.livejournal.com
Am I? Reappropriating the term monster is a rebellion against demonisation; the theft of a character's humanity. I never say "Draco is misunderstood" to mean that he is a secret little angel, I say it to mean that he isn't the little devil mainstream imagery paints him as. And I know you don't care about mainstream imagery before you tell me, but I do, and that's why I use the word. If I am making up a new terminology it's just to point out that the whole monster business is a fallacy. Sort of like the word "queer".

Oh, good then. <3

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