[wait by the light of the moon]

[reenka]

Reading `The Art of Walking Backwards', which is shaping up to be a wonderful Bring Back Black fic, I'm thinking about the idea of Remus wanting to bring Sirius back for Harry, because he needs him-- because he shouldn't have to survive alone like Remus has had to, and....


I was just thinking how a large part of the 'justification' or philosophy for H/D had been that Harry is lonely-- that he needs someone who's all his, to keep, you know.... Especially because we all thought after Sirius, he'd be broken in some way and just like Remus thought in this fic, he couldn't take anymore, and you know-- he wasn't broken after all in HBP-- and then Dumbledore died, and yet no one really seems to think he'll be broken now, even though now he's lost even more. And he's learned to let go voluntarily, with Ginny, so theoretically he should be -more- shut off and emotionally barren, shouldn't he? Is this fodder, then, for the people who'd always claimed Harry has to go on alone, not paired with anyone, 'cause he's the hero (which I'd always strenuously disagreed with, 'cause that's just not JKR at all).

And yet-- and yet-- I think for all his losses and the strain, it's just hit me that... I don't think Harry's lonely at this point, not anymore. I think that's a large part of why I've been sort of at a standstill with my Harry characterization-- because where HBP ended, I think he realized what was important to him. He realized what he would fight for, and now he's not just rolling with the punches, he's not just taking it. I think he found a sense of purpose and control over his life which Remus never had, because he was a werewolf and powerless in ways Harry never was. Harry is not powerless, and even without his parents or Sirius or Dumbledore, he's not alone. He's not like Remus at all. He has Ron and Hermione, and he has a purpose, and he has the innate capability to win and defeat that which had made him powerless-- unlike Remus, he has an enemy he can actually fight, because the enemy isn't himself.

I keep feeling bewildered, on some level, by the people who see HBP through shippy glasses (forget H/Hr or H/D or R/Hr), because it wasn't about any of those to me-- and no, I don't mean it was H/Hr/R, except it was, but not that way. They faced a rift and they overcame it, and I really feel the three of them are stronger than ever, and the truth is, Harry doesn't need Ginny because he has them. Ginny's... nice, but not essential, and he knows it, and that's why he can let her go. That's why he can be strong and feel sad about Dumbledore without suppressing it-- because he's learned to lean a little, I think.

Just as Draco has had his world knocked out from under him, I think Harry has found his grounding at last, which has been there all along, of course. He knows where his strength is, and it's not that love is beside the point, it's that he has it. He didn't make the mistake James & Remus & Sirius made in mistrusting each other-- so he's all right the same way they would have been if they'd stuck together. He'll be okay.
    (And while I'm so happy for Harry, in ficcish terms... man, it couldn't be less inspiring.)
~~

Also, I'd just like to say, coldbeverage's Crabbe & Goyle are what they look like in my head, and why slash with either of them... um... puzzles me. Canon, baybe! Also, omg, Ron & Hermione arguing is just kind of... painfully cute. And woooowwww, nassima's Azkaban!Padfoot o_0 WHOAH. And actually, the whole hp_details comm is making me all wide-eyed, especially things like these visualizations of the four Common Rooms o_0 Now I want to write things set there! And zomg, Hogwarts! And Hogwarts lake! I think I might be a little obsessed... Ahhh, the Burrow...!..!.!!... I think I'm going to cry.
    OMG, this is... er... almost my Remus.... Or maybe this one by Ashley is closer. Um. There are so many at the Full Moony, and yet nothing totally fits. This one's definitely alpha!Remus-- you can sort of see him smoking a cigar and being droll, ahahah. Ashley's one S/R is really kinda hot, though. Possibly... possibly I love this Remus by Julie Thomson best. (Oh, and-- all the Remus pics, you'd have to copy & paste the link to see.) And then we have fools_trifle's S/R Celtic knot(!!!) ...aaand I'm done (for).

Comments

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Far be it from me to ever imply whatever the H/D fandom does in fics is remotely IC. Ahem. So anything I said about fandom should be taken as 'well, clearly I'm not endorsing it, however it does exist'-- which perhaps doesn't shed light upon anything much, but allows me to subtly poke fun at fandom, if you see what I'm saying. Regardless, I agree it'd be OOC, theoretically, to have Harry shut out Ron & Hermione & so on, but that never stopped anyone, and neither do I think most people think v. long about characterization before they write it.

I even agree with you about Harry & Draco not being extreme tops in terms of what's IC-- though I can see the ultra!bottom thing with Draco, um, yeah, at least when it comes to being able (though surely willing) to top Harry-- but as I said, people write that regardless of canon. And I don't think who tops has to do with their behavior in the fic overall if you wrote realistically, but yeah-- ultra!bottom wimpy!Draco would be canon would be annoying (yet canon), um... I mean, where was I....

Yeah, it's frustrating to have their relationship be unequal/uneven, but it kind of is for starters (even in HBP, just differently, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms). And it -is- a long journey to equilibrium/understanding between them, and that -is- what I'm interested in... it's just you can't expect to start out with that and to only have them have sex once they understand each other (they're boys, y'know). It's because of that length of time that I don't see Harry bottom to Draco anytime near the beginning of their relationship-- the trust is going to take a while. And I -reeeeeeally- don't see Draco um, forcing his desires upon Harry in any way. At all. Any time soon. I think for Draco, bottoming could be an assertion of power-- I mean, he could see it as capitulation, as attention, as possession-- while for Harry, his relationship with control & other people is different.

If you're talking UL, while I adore it, the Draco in it has a rather different attitude towards Harry than he does in canon, and Harry is rather more easily smitten with Draco's amazing snarky godliness than I think he's remotely likely to be. Something (like UST) would have to push them beyond friendship, anyway, and that's something that would bring them together as well as pull them apart-- that's sort of something I like about H/D. I don't want them to keep the antagonism, per se, but I think they're very different people who'll never fully understand each other, realistically, and they'll always get on each other's nerves, and they're very likely to be dysfunctional-- all okay by me. There's a difference between being a -stable- couple (which I'm not interested in, necessarily) and just... um, having a 'thing', and also sex, and even an understanding/bond of semi-friendship.

Though as I said... um... I think I'm too set in my ways and/or militant to have a reasonable discussion about bottom vs top!Draco~:) You can write them in different ways, but I can honestly tell you I've never read a wholly top (not switch) Draco with Harry that made a lick of sense to me.

I agree HBP ended with more potential in terms of understanding and realization between them-- I just don't know about more potential for sparks and intense neediness and obsessive violent possessive love-- which I do ship H/D for, as well as that moment of seeing between them. So yes, while our reasons intersect, they also diverge. If I just wanted understanding, I wouldn't need romance-- I'd write friendship fics-- which is actually what I'm interested in post-HBP. As for Dudley-- hah, well, Harry thought 'he's just like Dudley' minutes after meeting him in Madame Malkin's... so there really wasn't that much of a chance.

[lanjelin.livejournal.com]

Fanfic doesn't need to be IC to be entertaining. ;)

I do see why you see Draco's character like you do - I even agree that there are things in canon that support it! I myself have trouble deciding about him though, because to me we haven't got enough information to know for sure. I also tend to focus more on Harry (and mostly my complaints on characterisation in fics with bottom!Draco has to do with how Harry's portrayed) and you should hear me when I start on him... well, anyway, we all have different ways of "filling in the blanks" on Dracos' character. I think he has a lot of pride, and that he himself does think that he's on equal terms with Harry. Why else would he go after him the way he does? Or did, as things are, I guess.

I think there's room in fanon for several interpretations. :) I just ilke to discuss these things, since I often get new information and views I hadn't considered earlier when I do. But if you dislike it, please tell me and I'll stop! Things aren't always conveyed very well over the net, and I have learned that not everyone is as fond of these sort of discussions as I am. :)

Anyway, to continue... When it comes to a relationship between them, I think that they probably need to be friends first - or that at least Harry needs to feel that they are. He still has issues, though they've gotten a bit better, and would probably hesitate for a long time before letting anyone that close. I don't think Draco would act this way though, so he'd probably get a bti frustrated, heh. :) As for the bottoming... well, I'm really not certain. Harry does have intimacy issues (I suspect he does anyway - we're not shown that much in canon, and I would have liked to see how he behaves in a relationship... we didn't even get to see it even though he was in a relationship, and that really bugged me)that I don't think Draco has, which gives Draco the upper hand of sorts in a relationship. Though he might very well use it to choose to bottom for all I know, hah.

Another thing people have mentioned in essays I've read is their respective childhoods and how it would affect their relationship. The thing I always end up disagreeing with is that Harry would top since he's always been controlled all his life, and thgat Draco would bottom because he's always been in control of his life. I've always thought that Harry's been forced to look after himself most of his life (which is why he have trouble trusting adults) while Draco has been taken care of all his life and have lead a rather protected life.

Overall I have a much clearer view of Harry's character, than of Draco's. And I can go on at length about it, so beware! :)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I know a fic doesn't need to be IC to be entertaining, I was only saying, um, that I poke fun at the things that make no sense and in no way imply that fanfic is logical or IC by nature (therefore there's no reason to think I approve of it by mentioning it). With UL, I mentioned it because you used it as an example of a believable/semi-ideal relationship for H/D, it seemed like, and I was just saying it was pretty unrealistic the way it is in Underwater Light. Though better than a lot of other scenarios.

I only have issues with my ability to have a reasonable, unbiased discussion about Draco's bottomosity-- because I have pretty strong views on him and I think I'm wary of sounding as militant as I know I am, so I try to avoid the subject. I don't actually find Draco all that vague in canon, especially after HBP-- or at least, there's room for interpretation, yeah, but not -that- much room; logic and the need to justify oneself believably remains (to the great woe of all H/D writers everywhere, I'm sure). Of course, what one finds believable is different for everyone, but-- well-- most longish serious H/D fics I'd read have been really clumsy/inept/unsuccessful at trying to make Draco fully... um, on Harry's level without demeaning Harry, giving either of them new & exciting talents, or just making one or the other amazingly gorgeous/sexy/smooth/etc. Why yes, I am bitter.

While I think Draco has pride in his father/lineage/etc, I don't think it's all there is to him or anything. He's not a perfect Slytherin by any means. He's kind of a funny, pathetic loser, really, with cute traits like being halfway snarky, creative, and um, cute (don't ask me to sing paeans to canon!Draco, I would suck at it). I think he's in denial about himself and his abilities-- though he has some competency, clearly. He thinks he's Harry's equal (in his dreams), but then he also thinks he's superior in every way, is gorgeous and loved by all, I'm sure-- I mean, he acts like it, but clearly he's delusional and attention-seeking and grabby (because people who're really self-confident don't need to be validated by attention by people who don't like them). Draco's a little fool, and that's why I love him, but he's not who he thinks he is, that's for sure; and there's no escaping him ultimately confronting his own failings in the end (which he did in HBP, finally, or, started to).

As for needing to be friends first-- I guess, post-HBP, I can see it simply because the tension between them has gone done to the point where they -can- talk, but before-- well, they wouldn't have spent more than 2 minutes in each other's company before it came to hexes, I'm sure. I have a feeling they -both- have intimacy issues, but jerking each other off and/or snogging and/or making out doesn't -have- to mean 'intimacy', not between teenage boys. It can be violent, it can be just getting off, it can be a product of Harry's loss of control on his temper, another way to grind Malfoy into the dust & hurt him. Harry's got a grr-arrgh-you-do-what-I-say-now streak a mile wide-- like the way he pushed Mundungus against the wall, the way he Crucio'd Bella. He's no ickle bunny. I can see him pushing Draco against a wall, wand against Draco's throat and hand down Draco's pants, taunting him as he jerked him off, very easily. And Draco wouldn't just -take- it, he'd fight back, sure enough, and snarl & bite and hate, and then he'd come. Um, okay I got distracted....

But yeah, intimacy issues don't necessarily come into it-- whether Draco's a prude or Harry's shy doesn't matter in the short term because they make each other lose control. Plus, I mean, I think they just switch in my head, with Draco predominantly taking it because Harry's more aggressive and Draco's more passively manipulative. Um. I've thought about this a -lot-, so I feel... um, awkward 'cause I don't have a lot of room to maneuver or compromise or whatever, myself.

[lanjelin.livejournal.com]

I know a fic doesn't need to be IC to be entertaining, I was only saying, um, that I poke fun at the things that make no sense and in no way imply that fanfic is logical or IC by nature (therefore there's no reason to think I approve of it by mentioning it).

Nono, I didn't think you did! I do get what you're saying, I was just making a lighthearted comment, that's all. :)

I only have issues with my ability to have a reasonable, unbiased discussion about Draco's bottomosity-- because I have pretty strong views on him and I think I'm wary of sounding as militant as I know I am, so I try to avoid the subject.

Well, I'm one of those freaks who actually like to be questioned, heh. It sometimes makes me see things I had missed, and can put things in a new perspective. It makes me try to see if my point of view really holds up in the end, I guess.

And you're right about H/D fics. I've never found one I felt was fully IC either, but from what I can see this is mostly because the writer has only cared enough about one of them and characterised the other one to simply fit the story.

While I think Draco has pride in his father/lineage/etc, I don't think it's all there is to him or anything. He's not a perfect Slytherin by any means.

No, but then who is? I seem to remember JKR herself sayign in a recent interview that most students in Slytherin are ordinary children, much like the other houses really. I'm fed up with this "perfect Slytherin" ideal that some people seem to be perpetuating (and I've never gotten those vibes from you, so sorry for venting my frustration on your lj) and using as an excuse for being rude and obnoxious. That really aren't Slytherin traits anyway!

As for Draco, I'm not really convinced that his behaviour towards Harry is indicative fo how he treats other people he knows. We've seen so little of him when he's with his friends, but he does seem a lot more relaxed and rather sure of himself when he is. The conflict with Harry seems to me to be something that grew out of hand for various reasons and not necessarily Draco's normal course of action. I don't think he's ever shown to go after any other student like he does Harry, and Harry certainly doesn't act as unforgiving towards anyone else, even though they've insulted him far worse than Draco. Well, except for Snape of course, but that's an enmity that is reinforced everytime they are in the same room, heh.

As for magical ability and intelligence... who knows? Though I think the text hints that they're both intelligent and fairly good at magic, it's not exactly been proved beyond aboubt.

Harry's got a grr-arrgh-you-do-what-I-say-now streak a mile wide-- like the way he pushed Mundungus against the wall, the way he Crucio'd Bella. He's no ickle bunny.

I partly agree on this one. I think however, that he's growing up to learn more control. He was only fifteen and sixteen when he did those things, and it was during rather extreme circumstances. And the Crucio didn't even work! He's not usually violent, IIRC. Except with Draco, haha.

What I'm having trouble with is Harry using sex as part of the violence. I really don't see it. When he gets angry, he loses control and wants to hurt someone, and humiliation needs too much clear thinking, IMO. Something that's more up Draco's alley, to me! He certainly wants to humiliate Harry...

(Though I agree that your scenario was rather delicious. *Ahem*)

Um. I've thought about this a -lot-, so I feel... um, awkward 'cause I don't have a lot of room to maneuver or compromise or whatever, myself.

As long as you don't mind me occasionaly disagreeing with you... :)

I think the biggest reason why I ship them to begin with is that they really do make each other lose control. No one else seem to do it to either of them in that way, at least not with so little provocation that's usually needed, heh.

I probably think of them as switching myself. And you're most likely spot-on with Draco on this, but I think that Harry also has quite a bit of manipulation in him. That's what writers often miss, and I like that part of him! He's no shining hero of virtue, and isn't above lying, manipulating and blackmailing.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I like being questioned-- it's only in regards to things where I know I'm pretty emotionally biased that I feel it's not helpful, I guess? I mean, I like them switching (though mostly with Harry topping), but in the end that doesn't matter anyway, I'll read a fic if it's got all the other important things I want to see and not care. It is just easier to have a top!Harry be IC than a top!Draco, 'cause to make Draco top/dominant over Harry, you'd have to change Harry as much as Draco. And I really get tetchy about people making Harry weaker/more passive in any way.

Not that I think they're not intelligent & good at magic, but that's not the same as being a Veela or the Heir of Slytherin or the Sex God of Hogwarts or whatever-- that's what I was talking about. You're totally right that most fics go wrong in paying more attention to one of them-- I think few people who write H/D care about -and- understand the both of them equally, and it shows. I think Silvia Kindera, Aspen and Miss Breed (weatherby) come pretty close to having an equal grasp of IC Harry & Draco, but they all write really short fics and aren't well-known. Most people who write H/D have a vision of what they -want- to happen, also, even if they -can- write IC-- and so they sacrifice what's most likely for what they want and can sort of push into being. Even I'm not immune against writing about scenarios I don't think are likely but amuse me... much as I'd once been obsessed with writing fully 100% believable H/D. I'm curious what you'd think about Amalin's recent post-OoTP fic, `Transformation (http://frowl.org/transformation/)', which goes the hardcore believability route.

I never meant to imply he's the same with other people as he is with Harry-- I mean, he's different with his father and with Crabbe & Goyle, obviously, and with Myrtle too-- I was just saying there are things that seem indicative of his character, like, um, having self-image issues, being attention-seeking, being someone who wants to prove himself to others (though Harry's ambitious in his way, I don't think he's focused on other people like that). And while Harry can and does have Slytherin-type traits and can manipulate people somewhat (not that well because he doesn't normally get people that well) and lie when he has to, he just has a different approach. I don't mean he's a paladin of goodness, just that he usually deals with things differently. And while Draco might want to humiliate Harry, in the end he didn't, did he-- like with the train scene-- he could've gone farther but he didn't. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced Draco just wants to make a point, to be given his due, but he doesn't have a sadistic streak, he's just -nasty- (while Harry's not nasty so much as he's got a huge temper and thus ends up doing messed-up things-- rather like his dad).

I like H/D because they make each other lose control too-- and that whole scenario with the violent sex wasn't so much omg-it'd-so-happen-in-canon as... um, I can see canon twisting that way post-OoTP, probably because my mind just likes going down dark paths. It's not that Harry would premeditate Draco's humiliation-- that'd just come naturally 'cause he gets what buttons to push instinctively, 'cause he'd be confused and angry and fixated and taking things out on Draco that aren't his fault and so on. Anyway, post-HBP it's all different... I wasn't taking that into account. It's only that I like the violence :> They've both grown past all that now, mostly.

[lanjelin.livejournal.com]

I'll read a fic if it's got all the other important things I want to see and not care.

Actually, I agree comlpetely. What has happened to me though, is that in almost all the fics I've read where Harry tops, he's been severely out o fcharacter. Well, to me anyway. I don't really care if he tops, as long as he's in character, and that for me, includes being a bit oblivious when it comes to romance. As his crush on Ginny illustrated pretty well actually; he didn't understand what he was feeling for quite a while! (Though the relationship itself was... meh.)

Most people who write H/D have a vision of what they -want- to happen, also, even if they -can- write IC-- and so they sacrifice what's most likely for what they want and can sort of push into being.

Yes, that's exactly what I mean! And I understand it, I really do (and I can't write very well myself, so who am I to complain anyway?) and I can enjoy stories where they're not perfectly in character. Though sometimes it would be nice to fin done where they are, heh.

I haven't read much fanfic lately though, and I dont' really know who's writing... but I have read a few of the stories of the writers you listed I think, except for Miss Breed... I know I've read "Quicksilver" by Aspen, and it's one of my favourites, even though it's essentially a pwp. I really loved their interaction in it! Anyway, I'll take a look at "Tarnsformation", thanks for the rec. :)

And while Harry can and does have Slytherin-type traits and can manipulate people somewhat (not that well because he doesn't normally get people that well) and lie when he has to, he just has a different approach.

I just feel like people forget about these traits all together. I think there's an exaggerated focus on his aggression, when he's not actually that prone to anger IMO. In OotP he does lose control and scream a couple of times, but in those circumstances it was understandable, I think. Considering all the stress he's constantly under, he's actually quite restrained! I think most people would snap long before he did. I really don't think he has a huge temper. I know, I'm the only person with this opinion... *sigh*

Oh, and it's been a while since I've read OotP, so I might be misremembering, but did James Potter really have a bad temper? Didn't he walk around all proud and self-assured and harassed Snape because he thought it was amusing?

Draco was nasty to Harry on the train, but I wouldn't call him sadistic. Though I thought it was rather humiliating for Harry, and if he hadn't been found before the train had returned, it would have been even more so.

OotP was a very dark book, so I understand how dark fiction would come after it, so to speak. I just don't consider Harry's behaviour during the more depressing parts of it as the largest part of his personality. But then again, I don't have a particular liking for dark fiction either... Except for that old fic, what's it called... The losing side? I thought it was brilliant.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Aspen usually writes painfully in-character... PWPs, ahahah. So yeah... um, it's porn, but it's just really in-character porn. On weatherby's website there's only like, 3 H/D fics but they're all really great, especially `Red (http://bloom.velveteen.net/red.html)', which might be my favorite one-shot ever next to `And I Get By'-- it takes place during PoA, and I could -totally- buy it. Plus her Draco is like... amazing. Oh, it just makes me melt. And yeah, I really liked The Losing Side (by Antenora), as well as To Rule In Hell (speaking of equality, they were both stubborn angry bastards-- though this is a post-Hogwarts darkfic) though most of it's off the net now.

What I'm really wondering is if there -is- a over-focus on Harry's aggression... I think, certainly, in H/D fics, because he -is- overly aggressive with Draco, so.... I mean, since we're talking about H/D and not like, Harry/Ron, it would come out more. I never meant to say he's prone to anger in -general-, it's just that certain things set him off (Snape, Voldemort, Draco, the Dursleys, etc). You said yourself that Harry & Draco make each other lose control & act rashly/unusually, and that's exactly what I was talking about. I wasn't saying Harry was about to blow up and start hexing people left & right like a new version of Columbine or something-- just that you had to know what buttons to push, and once they got pushed, he's capable of greater intensity/level of outburst than say, Ron. Something like what happened with Aunt Marge.

I also didn't mean to say -James- had an overally anger management problem. These things are all meant to be seen in context. I wasn't trying to make overall sweeps of personality so much as the relevant portions that could be used, I guess-- because people act differently with different people. I always thought Draco (and Snape) brought out Harry's darker side, anyway, probably 'cause it's not like they ever just stop to chat-- it's always deteriorating into a confrontation. I just think that Harry would behave somewhat differently with Draco in a romantic context than say, with Ginny-- though this doesn't make him less oblivious (he always is), but rather more... careless, perhaps. He just doesn't care about Draco enough to, well, consider his feelings very much (at first).

Also, top!Harry doesn't really equal smooth-operator!Harry who knows what he's doing and all the right moves or whatever-- I mean, that characterization isn't about Harry, per se, but that person idea of what a perfect 'top' is, so they'd write Draco the same way if they wanted a top and it'd be just as bad. I mean, Draco in that role is just laughable and more (not because he doesn't have his charm, but because the day he charms Harry into bed with it is the day pigs fly). A top is just someone who in a particular relationship would directly control the pace/nature of an encounter-- and the idea of Draco controlling/possessing anything about Harry anytime soon makes me laugh. And laugh. And then dislike Draco and make fun of him. And then laugh more. Um, that's what I meant about being biased.

Harry, on the other hand, doesn't need to be smooth or charming to get Draco to submit/reciprocate/whatever, because to me, in H/D terms, it is a Truth of the Universe that Draco Malfoy Wants It Bad. Well... he just... does, though far be it from him to admit it without a fight.

[lanjelin.livejournal.com]

Yep, really in-character porn, that's exactly what it is, haha. Oh, and it was "To rule in hell" I was thinking about; I haven't actually read "The losing side", I just heard it was the prequel, so to speak. It's dark, and it's not what I usually go looking for, but I still loved it. I loved her Harry, too! I think I've had some bad luck with fanfic lately, and managed to find a bunch of writers who, despite writing H/D, doesn't actually like Harry very much.

What I mean about focusing too much on Harry's aggressiveness is that some people make the mistake of assuming he'll be like he is with Draco to everyone. He's a rather introverted type I think, and not likely to hold a grugde for long. Except with Draco. (And Snape, but that's a whole different story.) What happened with aunt Marge is a bit different, since she has been abusing him verbally and even occasionally physically for a long period of time.

Oh, and sorry about the James thing, I completely misunderstood!

I do think Harry would be different in a relationship with Draco, but it would have been nice to see how he behaved in any relationship. Though now we can pretend it was just a not-so-serious fling instead of Harry's One True Love OMG. Anyway, from what I could tell, no matter Harry might say, she isn't really his equal. He wants to protect her of course, but the fact is that those he will share his adventures with is Hermione and Ron. I don't think Draco would accept that as Ginny does - he would simply demand to be included. But I still doubt that Harry would have sex with Draco before he stops disliking him!

A top is just someone who in a particular relationship would directly control the pace/nature of an encounter-- and the idea of Draco controlling/possessing anything about Harry anytime soon makes me laugh. And laugh. And then dislike Draco and make fun of him. And then laugh more. Um, that's what I meant about being biased.

Haha, OK, I won't dwell on this then. We'll just agree to disagree or something. :) I just want to say that I dislike the typical top behaviour in both characters. Though I'm more sensitive about it when it comes to Harry.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Trying to be fully rational-- yeah, it's unlikely Harry would normally or easily have sex with Draco before he stops disliking him-- it is only that post-OoTP especially, I saw loopholes in terms of, um, messing Harry up enough to use sex as a means to another end. Like, the best example is probably Cassie Claire's `A Season In Hell (http://www.restrictedsection.org/file.php?file=1149)', which is a darkfic where basically Harry spirals into complete apathy/depression and just doesn't -care- about Draco or anyone else. If he didn't snap out of it with Sirius-- well, people do all sorts of self-destructive/unusual things under the influence of grief and depression and pain, especially with people who're bad for them or they don't like. I was never talking about Harry's normal functioning self.

Though I have to point out there's no direct reference to physical abuse of Harry by anyone but possibly Dudley in canon. Harry just has a button about references to his parents not being, um, good people-- that's what she said that set him off, if you'll recall. It wasn't a question of self-defense so much as outrage on behalf of his parents, who weren't drunkards or bums or whatever, Harry was very sure. I think hurting Harry directly doesn't offend him so much.

As for bottom Draco-- I should explain better, 'cause I'm not sure it's clear what we're disagreeing on. I was saying what you implied was 'typical top behavior' (in fanfic) wasn't actually what a top was, in reality, but rather a female fantasy that has little to do with characterization probabilities. I was also saying that the actual thing that a top does (initiate/set the tone of a sexual encounter) is something Harry's not likely to allow Draco to do early on in their relationship-- do you disagree with this? It is not that he has to dominate Draco entirely-- it's not like we're talking hardcore S&M practices, just who's more likely to push who against the wall. I mean, I don't even want to go into who's more likely to penetrate who (at first), because I do think that's not the first thing they'd do (being only boys), and it's not like that defines everything.

Also, if you dislike typical top behavior, why make -Draco- top-- because you don't care as much if he's not as likable? I'm not sure what you're saying there, outside of admitting bias (which I also have, but my judgment of their top/bottomness is actually separate). I think neither is an obvious top or bottom, but Harry's just more likely to take charge physically because Draco's more likely to allow Harry to pounce him than vice versa. I'm actually a fan of switching, it's just that my main point is that Harry is -more- of a top than Draco with Draco and to Draco, because of his specific dynamic with Draco. It's not that Draco is submissive, but he's more submissive-- that is what I'm unsure whether you disagree with and why.

There are actual reasons for why I find Draco more submissive (though not a complete bottom anymore than Harry is a complete top)-- I mean, as I said, because he's more likely to see Harry losing control with him as a gain of power to himself, because he's more of a passive person when it comes to authority (he aligns himself with it-- Snape, Umbridge, even Dumbledore slightly) whereas Harry resists it; I also think that while Draco wouldn't necessarily want to bottom to Harry (at first), he would anyway because Harry wouldn't want to bottom to Draco more and Draco wouldn't be able to push Harry into anything. But it's not like this is a question of heavy negotiation and forethought-- I mean, for the longest time, I'm sure there would just be frottage and mutual wanking. It's just that I can see Harry being the more physically aggressive one-- the one pushing Draco down more, the one having more outbursts of sudden temper/lust/emotion, the one more... uh, Leo-like. I'm not sure which of this you disagree with.

But I agree Draco wouldn't accept Harry's little issues the way Ginny did, heh-- as I was talking about with sistermagpie below, actually. Though even so, I think it'd be a while before Harry trusts/likes Draco enough to actually change his behavior according to what Draco wants.

[lanjelin.livejournal.com]

I think I have come across as rather confused about tis whole thing, and it's not only because I've been writing this in the middle of the night when I should actually go to sleep (though it's day now, and I'll try to be more coherent). No, it's also because I haven't really got as clear a view of the characters as you have - not even of Harry. I'm also not like Harry. I have a couple of traits in common with him, but overall we're quite different, so I have to work hard to understand him.

I have read "A Season in Hell", but I disagree with that characterisation of Harry. This I have decided on, haha, because I don't see Harry as someone to sink into depression like that, to give up. He so perfectly fits the type that fights until the end, which is why I loved "A Spell to Turn Tigers into Butter" by Amanuensis. It's one of the darkest fics I've read, and Harry is completely defeated in it, and still he manages to fight back. That's who hej is to me, and I think that "To Rule in Hell" has that feeling as well.

I think Harry is one of those "Dandelion children" (I don't know the English expression for it, so it's a direct translation from Swedish, sorry). I read about them a few years ago and they are children who, no matter what happens to them manage to survive and even thrive. These are children who has had as bad, or worse, childhoods as Harry, and they still come out sane and healthy. Despite being abused, shipped from foster home to foster home and without having any relatives to care for them.

And though I certainly think that there's limit to what he can cope with, I don't think what happened in OotP was enough. He still had people who cared for him, and more importantly, people he cared about.

Though I have to point out there's no direct reference to physical abuse of Harry by anyone but possibly Dudley in canon.

I was thinking of when Marge let her dog chase him up a tree where he had to remain for several hours. She wasn't hitting him, but I'd still call it physical abuse. It must have bee terrifying, since he was so young. She also (IIRC) has never done anything but put him down and treated him badly in general. Her comments about his parents was what set him off, no doubt about it, and I certainly wouldn't call it self defense. However, she is to Harry sort of what Snape has become - a person who continously derides and never has done a single nice thing for him, never ave him a moments respite. Whenever they meet, all the old baggage is there in Harry's mind. He expects her to be the way she has always been, and is already angry before she even starts to speak. This is even more true with Snape, and it makes it very easy for them to push his buttons, so to speak.

When it comes to bottoming or topping, I think that when Harry gets as far as allowing Draco to touch him in such a way at all, he's not going to hold anything back. I think this is what we disagree on; I don't think their relationship could start in violence. I think that to Harry, anger and hate is very separated from feelings of love, and even lust. In all the instances we've seen him really angry, he just pounds and pounds without thought, anger overwhelming him. To turn that sexual, he'd have to have more control, more space to even form coherent thought. I have no proböem seeing Harry push Draco up against a wall in anger; I just don't hink he'd do it out of lust. I think that Harry and Draco would have to would have to have their big showdown before Harry can think of Draco as someone to trust enough to let that close. And that's it; I think that before Harry lets Draco come close to him, he'll have to trust him - and then, yes, I don't think he'd have a problem with letting Draco take control.

I also totally think that Ginny is the one who tops in their relationship, haha. Not physically of course, but you know what I mean, right?

[lanjelin.livejournal.com]

continued:

As for Draco, it's easier to see him as a top - and I don't mean typical top behaviour - because he seems much less oblivious. I mean, if he doesn't make the first move, nothing will happen, because Harry's a bit dim about these things. I mean, he took forever to get his feelings for Ginny, and society is conditioning us to think that boy/girl is the way to go. And his best friends was having a relationship right in front of his nose too. This is, of course, an effect of my being convinced that Harry won't make a move in anger. I think that point makes the rest of their dynamic so different from how you see them. I also think that this is a point where both interpretations is actually possible, though.

The problem with top!harry is that in all the fics I have read with him, he's either been the typical top you spoke of, or the dark!Harry, which works very well in the fics I mentioned because of what has happened to him in those fics but just get laughable when people try to pull it off just from using present canon.

Harry and Draco are my two favourite characters, and I actually do love them both. I still don't think of Draco as very submissive though - I agree he aligns himself with those in power, but I don't think that it necessarily reflects how he behaves in a relationship. You could just as easily say that he's acting smart in the face of those with power over him. And since what I want in H/D is equal interaction...

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I wasn't trying to say Cassie's fic is some sort of blueprint for how I see post-OoTP H/D or anything-- and I agree that Harry would fight till the end and not give up and wouldn't be so easily broken. I didn't mean that Sirius' death would break him, just introduce some cracks into his self-control and/or some further delinquency into his behavior. I know about dandelion children-- actually Ivy Blossom wrote a fic about Harry & Draco (http://www.thedarkarts.org/authors/iblossom/dandelion.html) like that once.

I also didn't mean I think violent!H/D is most likely by a long-shot, and in fact my main post-OoTP longfics (well, mostly unfinished) are more introspective & slow-building and stuff, which is how I like my H/D in the end (like, there's a reason `Eclipse (http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/PhoenixSong/Eclipse/)' is my favorite post-OoTP H/D & it's mostly a friendship fic until the end). It's just... yeah, I can see what you're saying about Harry not having the presence of mind (at least in OoTP), generally, to think/feel anything else while he was lashing out in anger, it's just that I thought he had potential to mutate/change (which I was interested in).

I'm not sure if I can justify it with canon & I wasn't really trying to, just to say that it's -possible- to take his dark obsessiveness just that one step further. Like, in OoTP he was obsessed with the Dept of Mysteries, whereas in HBP it was Draco-- and he & Draco, y'know, are very physical with each other (in terms of awareness of action/reaction). So it's not that he'd hex him or hit him & then come on to him, but rather that I think Harry's obliviousness of things physical/emotional can be -thinner- with Draco, his behavior not quite the same as with others. I'm just saying that can be played with, not that it has to be.

I think Draco is quite, quite oblivious (or rather, in denial) in his own ways-- about himself, his role in the world, what he really wants (like with Dumbledore), etc. It's very easy to write fics that are reasonably in-character where he's been in love/lust with Harry since like, 3rd year, and that's because he's got a talent for pretending/self-deception born of pride/narcissism & insecurity most of all-- he has a self-image he wants to keep up but can't, and all sorts of things he ignores merely because they don't fit his little fantasy. That's why his breakdown in HBP was so spectacular-- he was realizing that his self-conceptions and abilities don't hold up to reality, that he can't deny he's bitten off more than he could chew-- so of course his mental equilibrium suffered greatly.

Also, I don't know if I fully see the direct causal link between being emotionally oblivious (which, as I said, Draco also is in a different way) and being sexually submissive (though I can see initially passive, but that's another thing that'd change once one 'saw the light'). Harry's not passive when he finally has a clue-- he springs into action. I see no real evidence for him 'bottoming' for Ginny the way Ron seems to with Hermione-- I mean, he didn't wait for Ginny to come to him first, he grabbed her and kissed her. The whole thing started 'cause he's a jealous possessive bastard (with Dean), which is definitely not a bottom characteristic at all. Ginny's not possessive/dominant-- she let him go at the end, remember, she knew she couldn't influence him (this is not, btw, anything Hermione would ever let slide with Ron).

[lanjelin.livejournal.com]

Nah, I just figured you used the fic as a referential point, like "This sort of fic can work for me because...". At least that's what I was doing, only the other way around, haha.

I know about the Dandelion fic, since she wrote it after a discussion with me and some others on a mailing list. I'd read about it rather recently then, and introduced it into the discussion. It's mentioned in the post, though not on her website I think.

It's funny how you describe Draco, since it's so similar to how I've been thinking about him for... well a long time. I've been nagging my friends for a couple of years now that I believe that Draco's lead a very sheltered life and been fed a lot of propaganda of pure-bloodedness (er...) and Voldemort. He's like one of the many people who are raised to believe something and get their beliefs constantly reinforced by everyone around. I used to say that it would take something big to make him change his course, something that would make him realise what the harsh reality was really like. And then HBP came out, and I was reasonably smug about it, heh. Though it's not been proved beyond a doubt, I now think it's the most likely scenario.

I don't think this needs to indicate how he would behave in a relationship, or how he handles feelings. Since his childhood has been so normal (aside from the political aspect) I tend to think that Draco is more aware of what he's really feeling. I see him as someone who thinks and plans more than Harry (who often act on pure instinct) and therefore has to be more... reflective? Not by very much of course - He still loses his temper and composure as soon as Harry gets near - but more so than Harry.

Self-deception... well, I'm not sure about this one. In HBP he was forced to realise what one of the founding stones in his view on existence actually entailed - and that he wanted to give it up - but I don't think it has to show that he's decieving himself on emotional stuff. I'm sure he does have insecurities though; we all have (and Harry has more than most, though it's rarely obvious). I just don't think they're his dominating part. After all, when confronted with this turning point, he stops with the posturing. He's starting to realise that a part of his world-view may be wrong and he has to deal with that. But I don't think that believing in the wrong things makes you weak. Rather, being able to break free of them (especially under those circumstances) takes quite a lot.

Hm, good point about submissive and passive being different. I do think Harry would be the passive at first, since I think it'd take longer for him to realise what he was feeling. But I don't think active has to equal dominant either. Though I dislike those labels.

The thing is I don't care who does what to whom in bed. It's the top/bottom labels and mentalities that I abhor. I don't want one of them to be given certain traits because of their role when they have sex. It doesn't feel like I'm reading about Harry and Draco anymore, but rather a construct in which they are made to fit even if it means cutting off or adding certain parts of their personality. So I don't dislike fiction where Draco is the one being penetrated in bed (just to be specific, hah) but fiction in which he has to fit in this certain set of rules. Huh, I just managed to put this into words for the first time thanks to you!

About Ginny, I seem to recall that she was the one running up to and throwing her arms around Harry. Do you know how hard it is to kiss someone who's not about to kiss you? She had to be aiming for it too.

I don't know what to think about that breaking-up scene because it was so silly that I was wondering if JKR was serious. The most obvious conclusion to me was that they're not really in love anymore, but really, the scene defies analysing.

I'm not sure I remember Harry being possessive, though he was jealous a lot... in a rather unoffensive manner.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Just a quick reply for now-- um, the reason I think Draco's in denial about feelings is because of his behavior towards Harry-- that is, he obviously wanted to be Harry's friend, got rejected & then became obsessed with grabbing his attention/pranking/telling on him, 'cause clearly he hates him so much. If he was honest with himself, he wouldn't go to such lengths to prove himself to Harry, wouldn't babble to his father about him, etc. I mean, Harry's opinion of/reaction to him seems to matter quite a bit to him, even when he's otherwise pretty preoccupied with other things-- like on the train, and in the bathroom scene. He really does still jump at Harry, not wanting to be seen as weak, wanting a pre-emptive strike, revenge, etc-- and I don't see much evidence that he knows something's fishy about this fixation (I don't mean it's slashy, I just mean he's got self-esteem issues tied up in there he's in denial about, it seems). I'm with you re: not liking rigid roles-- I was always thinking of their sexual dynamic, at least, as being when they'd gotten past the initial passive stage, though, mostly. With Harry... you're right, I'd forgotten that Ginny ran at him, yeah... I just think in the end, it was his choice, his -control- in some central way. I dunno, I just think Harry takes charge and just -does- it when he figures out what he wants (the jealousy implies possesssiveness to me, as in, if he wasn't, why would he have a monster in his chest all roaring?) Um, with the break-up... haha, yeah, I never thought they were supposed to be in love in the first place-- I was just saying that if Ginny was the one in control, she wouldn't have realized now wasn't a good time to push him.

[lanjelin.livejournal.com]

I do agree to some extent about Draco being in denial of sorts. And we've been having this discussion for so long now that I've forgotten what I've already said, haha.^^;; Anyway, I think the starting point of their enmity was clearly an instance of them both hitting each other's weakest points. With Draco, I would say it's his pride. Or at least it was then. Harry is (was?) oversensitive to people acting similar to Dudley, and Draco being flanked by his larger companions and acting condescending must have given Harry some (probably subconscious) Dudley-flashbacks. And you're not exactly unbiased when you're eleven and your first friend ever is being insulted, heh.

After the first few retaliations, there was just no turning back, and things have just kept escalating since... Until HBP.

But you're right; Draco's obsession with Harry is a lot more than he thinks it is, slashy or not. And he is in denial about it, I can see that. Hm, I guess what I meant was that Draco is normally more aware fo his feelings? When he's with people he likes and trusts. Unlike Harry, who (with a few exceptions) has to be prodded and poked to reveal something. Which is why my view on their dynamic only works if the become friends before they become lovers, and that only works if my view on Harry is correct. Which, of course, I think it is, but it's not like I couldn't be wrong, haha.

I see Harry as more going-with-the-flow type of person. I mean, the scene with Ginny could totally be read both ways since JKR is so unspecific about these things. About the jealaousy... I don't know. Not the jealous type myself, you see.^^ Though it didn't result in anything more severe than annoyance with Dean on Harry's part, did it? If so, it was rather tame. On the other hand, isn't Draco usually portrayed as the jealous one in bottom!Draco fics? Or have I just been reading the wrong ones?

And well, Ginny is young; even doms must make mistakes at the tender age of fifteen, right? Heh, j/k.^^

(Oh, I wish I'd had time to read the rest of the comments! But I need to go back to working...)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

To explain how I see Draco I'd have to actually, uh, explain how I see Draco, period, which seems a bit too large of a project for now ^^; People who try to defend Draco and say 'but he's just being smart' or 'he's really got it going on and we can't tell', all in the interests of 'improving' his chances with Harry or his appeal as a 'strong' character (ha... ha... hahah)-- I mean... this is the breeding ground for fanon!Draco, right there. He's -not- as strong as Harry; he's not directly Harry's equal in terms of ego/strength of character; they can have a balanced relationship, because yeah, he's intelligent, can hold his own in a hexing fight, is a compatible Seeker, is good at Potions-- but he's still, y'know, "Dorko Malfly", Loser Extraordinaire.

He's a childish prat. A poncy melodramatic git. A... posh spoiled whiny delusional little twerp with Daddy issues, a mean streak three miles wide, an obsessive need for attention, two goons for 'best friends', a simpering bitch for a girlfriend, and a crazed megalomaniac for a dad (that's gotta leave a mark). I mean, what I'm trying to say isn't that I hate him (ahem), but that one just has to keep a clear eye about these things. I'm just being flippant, though, 'cause to really discuss Draco (and why he's the queeniest queen in queendom) would... uh, take awhile, and it's more fun mocking him, I admit.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

He's a childish prat. A poncy melodramatic git. A... posh spoiled whiny delusional little twerp with Daddy issues, a mean streak three miles wide, an obsessive need for attention, two goons for 'best friends', a simpering bitch for a girlfriend, and a crazed megalomaniac for a dad (that's gotta leave a mark). I mean, what I'm trying to say isn't that I hate him (ahem), but that one just has to keep a clear eye about these things. I'm just being flippant, though, 'cause to really discuss Draco (and why he's the queeniest queen in queendom) would... uh, take awhile, and it's more fun mocking him, I admit.

Oh, well there's your problem.

No, he's not.:-)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Not a queen? Not a git? Not poncy, not melodramatic, not posh, not spoiled, not whiny, not delusional or nor, er, little? Ahahaha, yeah, I know :> Oh, y'mean, my problem is that it's more fun mocking him-- I mean, yeah, I do suspect that's it :D
...I think I'm just too lazy to do what you & malafede do so much better, so maybe I should just say, "nevermind, just ask sistermagpie" :D That's really the best solution to my little problem, I think :>

[lanjelin.livejournal.com]

Haha, I won't make you write me an essay, don't worry.^^ You actually (as I said in the other post) finally made me realise what was bothering me so much with a lot of the fics I've read. And i also think I should reread some fics I like to remind me that there are quite a few of them, heh.

Now, I don't think it has to be an either/or deal with Draco; he's not been as strong as Harry, but he thought he was, and after HBP I actually think they are, or at least approaching, equal ground. I emphatically agree that they weren't before.

As for the second part... I agree with about half of it.^^

[lanjelin.livejournal.com]

Sorry, but it seems I exceeded the word count...

If you're talking UL, while I adore it, the Draco in it has a rather different attitude towards Harry than he does in canon, and Harry is rather more easily smitten with Draco's amazing snarky godliness than I think he's remotely likely to be.

Oh, I agree completely. What I like about that story is mainly the pacing, you see. :)

Something (like UST) would have to push them beyond friendship, anyway, and that's something that would bring them together as well as pull them apart-- that's sort of something I like about H/D. I don't want them to keep the antagonism, per se, but I think they're very different people who'll never fully understand each other, realistically, and they'll always get on each other's nerves, and they're very likely to be dysfunctional-- all okay by me.

Except for the dysfunctional part I agree completely. There is a tension between them that I relly like, and it doesn't have to be full-blown antagonism to be interesting. I see this all the time in anime, and those couples tend to be the most popular in fanfic. They also tend to be friends in canon, which is an interesting difference. They also tend to be close to the personality types of Harry and Draco, though more markedly Gryffindor/Slytherin coded.

Though as I said... um... I think I'm too set in my ways and/or militant to have a reasonable discussion about bottom vs top!Draco~:) You can write them in different ways, but I can honestly tell you I've never read a wholly top (not switch) Draco with Harry that made a lick of sense to me.

Haha, I understand; I guess I'm like that with Harry! :) And I've read too little fanfiction lately to really know what's out there, but all I've glance at has had willowy, pale and short Draco who's seduced by Harry's rugged handsomeness and this just cracks me up. I mean, I've always thought of them as being the same size! And both rather short and skinny. Oh, and wasn't Draco taller than Harry in HBP? Though I might be misremembering... Anyway, those fics just seems so... romance-novelly, if you know what I mean. Which has lead to me no longer being able to read a fic where Harry is taller than Draco, heh. :)

As for Dudley-- hah, well, Harry thought 'he's just like Dudley' minutes after meeting him in Madame Malkin's... so there really wasn't that much of a chance.

Yeah, Harry has a bit of a gut reaction to spoiled behaviour. I still like the "what if" scenarios though!

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

The reasons people gave you for Draco bottoming sound stupid, though. Um. It's not like your childhood trauma affects whether you like it up the arse in such a straightforward way-- it's just that how they -are- affects how they'd be sexually. Draco's definitely not been in control of his life and neither has Harry, but that's neither here nor there-- it's not as if I'm propagating 'willowy, pale and short Draco who's seduced'-- gah! Harry the seducer is beyond ridiculous. He'd just grab [Ginny] and kiss [Ginny], ahahah. And man, the top!Draco fics are actually as romance-novelly if not worse, 'cause there you have smooth-as-ice!fanon!Draco, whom I hate beyond words.

[lanjelin.livejournal.com]

I did think the reasons sounded a bit... well. Grabbed out of the air? Heh. I guess people like to have a clear and easy answer.

Harry the seducer is just so OOC that it's not even funny. Though usually it does give me a couple of nice laughs! To me, he sort of just goes with the moment, even tough he really has no idea what he's doing... Like that kiss with Ginny. He really has no impulse control, but neither does he have much romantic experience.

And man, the top!Draco fics are actually as romance-novelly if not worse, 'cause there you have smooth-as-ice!fanon!Draco, whom I hate beyond words.

Oh, yes, that's exactly the same! Though I do think Draco is more controlled than Harry (except when it's about Harry, haha) he's hardly the suave ice prince of the dungeons. I think Harry and Draco is alike in some ways; they're both very competative, intelligent and driven. Harry is more impulsive and rash, though he seems to be learning more control.

I guess what I like in fiction is when they really are on equal grounds, when they clash and fight with a passion and has to come to a resolution where no one is the dominant. I don't want either of them to "surrender". I want them to be strong, resilient and proud, like I see them in canon.

Unfortunately, I've yet to come across a fic where both of them get to be like that, haha. :) (I've also had the bad luck of running into a lot of fics where the author has used Draco as a form of Mary-Sue character, and he seems much more prone to this treatment than Hary for some reason. I wonder why?)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Haha, I've had criticism that I make my Draco too proud (and I see why-- I mean, he -can- be a whiny crybaby, um), but I'm curious what you'd think of my Big Bang Baby fic when it's done :> I always wanted to see them as rivals, a balance of powers, yeah, though before HBP it was looking less likely. And now their competitiveness/passion is much lower 'cause both have bigger fish to fry. Argh. But... I totally agree with you re: Harry.

I tend to play with their dynamic in terms of some sort of uneasily balanced, unstable power-play, nothing that 'works', per se, so I don't know if that's what you mean. But um, Aja and Antenora and Silvia Kundera and Dahlia and possibly Ivy all tried their own ways at balancing them without having either dominant, though usually it's not -fighting-, per se... except maybe something like in Silvia's `And I Get By (http://www.livejournal.com/users/silviakundera/582572.html)', which is one of my all-time favorite fics. Heheh, as for never surrendering... I once wrote a drabble with the same title (http://glassesreflect.net/hd/neversurrender.php). :>

[lanjelin.livejournal.com]

What, is it even possible to make Draco too proud? ;)

Seriously, that's one of his more obvious personality traits. Also, It seems I'm going to have to read your fiction, since it sounds like I'd be quite ond of your Draco, haha. I'll certainly read your Big Bang fic!

I'll also try "And I Get By" as soon as I fix my computer enough that it doesn't spread questionmarks all over it...

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I'll also try "And I Get By" as soon as I fix my computer enough that it doesn't spread questionmarks all over it...

All you have to do is go to 'Character Encoding' and um, change either from Unicode to Western or from Western to Unicode.