w00t! pr0n! except not.

[reenka]

Ahhhh, stellabelle so owns me. Yeah, she wrote another H/D fic and yeah, I'm so in love with it I have to pimp it in this most embarrassing fashion. Ahem.

Possibly this might have to do with the fact that it's called `I Have A Girlfriend, You Fucker!'. I think this and this alone could make me fall over from the sheer beauty of it all.

Also, after the_leaky's unfortunate descent into angst, I so needed this, man. Besides, there are references to like, British things in it. Like... like Kensington. Oh, the love. As well as easy!Draco and rather-stupid-but-eager!Harry. The world really should work like this. I mean, it may not, but DAMMIT IT SHOULD. Actually, it -does-, doesn't it?

Comments

[malafede.livejournal.com]

And I meant a queer reading of Draco and Pansy's love as a reading of their relationship which read Draco as queer, but a flamewar of the relative merits of canon and fanon works too.

No, you're right that it happens all the time in real life, too bad it never happens in fic because everymen with their little annoying uncool flaws are not romance material, oh woe.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

It's not the flaws that make Draco/Pansy not that popular to write-- certainly, Ron/Hermione is a popular pairing and it's got plenty of flaws and incompatibilities and Ron's got a horrible temper and Hermione's a control-freak-- it's not that people don't like that. Things like R/Hr also happen a lot in real life, btw.

The thing with Draco/Pansy that makes it less than interesting is that we know next to nothing about Pansy, Draco is really rather gay, and there's little narrative tension between them. There's no tension, no drama, no-- central burning issue. So basically, I'm saying that some things that are 'real' or common just aren't as interesting when put down on paper 'cause they're... not very dramatic.

Like... most people read to be entertained, which is why they read about two people in love/lust in the first place, right-- and not about two people going grocery shopping :>

[malafede.livejournal.com]

There's no tension, no drama, no-- central burning issue.

The only thing D/P lacks is the super-duper powers of superhumanity.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I dunno-- I mean, can you define a ship like that, rather than just a writer? Or you could say a canon depiction makes characters seems over-the-top and overly 'good' and glorious, but if the canon doesn't, then theoretically there's some not-so-glorious characterizations of the popular ships, too. I've certainly read dark, not-so-uber-human Harry/Ginny and hey, Ron/Hermione and Snape/Hermione and dude, I do read way more het than I'd realized :>

I was trying to talk about narrative structure and how one needs a central conflict to make a pairing have mass appeal-- some... drive. It also helps to fit into a larger cliche but that's mostly 'cause most writers/readers are inexperienced and have pre-existing expectations & desires. Both of these seem unrelated to any conscious desire to uber-glorify the characters-- I'd argue that the only cases where this would really be true would be instances of Mary Sues anyway. And most people's Pansy is as Mary Sue as they come, btw.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

I've certainly read dark, not-so-uber-human Harry/Ginny and hey, Ron/Hermione and Snape/Hermione

Dark has mass appeal too, you know, as in cool. The reason why DE fic is so popular is mainly that. I'm sure there's people who are into it for less shiny reasons, but a lot of people go for that goth poseur thing.

mass appeal-- some... drive.

Mass appeal is not drive. Mass appeal mostly plays on the desire of the audience to escape reality.

Pansy is as Mary Sue as they come, btw.

Because all Mary Sues get described as pug-faced and called stupid cows by the main heroine...?

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

We're totally talking about different things, which means we're talking past each other and omg I'm only awake for Aja's sake and I'm not even reading her essay and it's 7am and my mother'll wake up soon and I have to go now, like for real, who the hell's awake at 7am without sleeping???! But.

Anyway.
Mass appeal mostly plays on the desire of the audience to escape reality.
I was talking about narrative design, the writer's end of things-- it's not about audience, I meant mass appeal for writers, meaning questions about the narrative structure and how a story's built and how it hangs together and what makes good conflict/drama/angst. This isn't about audience. Audience is an entirely different issue which doesn't explain why things do or don't get written, just whether or not they become popular. D/P is vaguely popular to the extent that it's written, which isn't very great.

Because all Mary Sues get described as pug-faced and called stupid cows by the main heroine...?
I meant, in this case, audience percepion of Pansy, not your perception or the 'IC' perception or JKR's intent-- I was talking about popularity of characters determining whether they get used, and in this case, Pansy is popular in fandom for whatever reason and is Mary Sued a lot, too. Is it IC? No, but most people don't care, thusly you can't use the argument 'but she's uncool' to explain why anyone avoids writing her, since they don't stop to see her as IC long enough to avoid her for that reason.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

NO! You can't go to bed now. I was awake that one time till 4 am even if I had to wake up at 7 to go to work just to discuss S/R with you.

Anyway. You're still talking fanon at me. I know very well that fanon Draco (!!!) and fanon Pansy exist. That was the whole point of my rant. :/ Saying that someone upgrades Pansy doesn't prove anything except that people feel compelled to upgrade her.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

Ron's got a horrible temper and Hermione's a control-freak-- it's not that people don't like that. Things like R/Hr also happen a lot in real life, btw.

Right, who thinks of Ron/Hermione in those terms? If you follow any discussion about the ship or the characters, you will find that Ron and Hermione are flawed but "just teenagers" and "their hearts are in the right place" and above all they are the good guys, and do cool amazing things with the hero. Draco and Pansy aren't cool. They don't do any cool amazing thing. They are lame, and pathetic, and represent, whether their author did it purposely or not, a jungian shadow to the main character and even the reader. They are the lame half of the everyman. Nobody cares about humanity because humanity, when not romanticised to some degree, is deeply uncool.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Oh, but plenty of people think Draco & Pansy are cool separately-- just, not so much together. There are lots of fics with Draco-- clearly the fandom thinks that whatever they believe is 'Draco' is cool enough to write fics about. As for Pansy, there's lots of her also, just not necessarily with Draco. I do believe it's the ship in particular that isn't dramatic, not the characters themselves. I think most people would say that Draco by himself is one of the most (overly) dramatic characters in HP :> Anyway, their 'common-man' aspects wouldn't be enough to stop most people (since most people would just overlook that and infuse coolness artificially) if that's all it was.

However, you're right-- they're not cool. That's what I meant-- Ron & Hermione aren't 'cool' but they're -made- cool because that's how the fandom wants to see them (ie, bias, yeay!) and because their dynamic together plugs into a common pre-existing cliche, which D/P doesn't.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

But eh, that's fanon you're talking about. The fanon is dramatic, the canon is OVER dramatic, as in funny and not especially tear-jerking or meaningful in that epic way. Oh, and hooray for lack of clichè...? Though I could argue there's plenty of "partners in crime" clichès that would fit, it's just that the gay thing is more appealing for some reason. >:D

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I'm trying to explain people's behavior & root it in reasonable, predictable patterns, that is all :>

[malafede.livejournal.com]

This sounds like you mean I am trying their behaviour as unelightened. I was thinking that probably I am actually saying that romance is unenlightened. Maybe I just feel a little oppressed.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I say nothing of enlightenment, only of predictability & the obvious nature of how people will tend to react. As for how enlightened people are, as well as their desires and imaginings-- not at all. This is a long-established truth of the world, I thought.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

I think writing is an exploration of the writer's truth.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Well, the writer's truth is partly defined by the truths of the society/age/social group/family they're in, unless they're me, because I AM IMMUNE TO YOU ALL, BITCHES >:O ...Ahem.

I just meant, I'm talking about other writers... groups of writers. So it's a cumulative thing, especially since in fandom, writers' truths/personal visions interact & create fanon.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

the writer's truth is partly defined by the truths of the society/age/social group/family they're in

Or a total adolescent-type rebellion against them, ahaha. See, this is why I love Utena.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Adolescent-style rebellion is temporary in that it always ends in either failure, stagnation or death-- sometimes a combination of the three :> Thusly, it is a pretty fantasy, but alas.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

Are you talking realism at me? :D :D :D

I just realised that what drives me mad is that you never write upgrades, just character development which I love, but then when we get it on meta-style you always throw literary contructs at me that make me want to spin around dementedly spitting fire. :D :D

META TRULY IS EVIL.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I think in terms of literary patterns/constructs if anything 'cause I'm in love with them as a lit-crit addicted English major. But my literary critic side isn't my writer self.

I fully agree that meta is evil and argument fruitless, however.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

But it's not the fact that you USE THEM, it's the ones you specifically use. Like, Draco as a hero, and -

- why are we having this flamewar again?

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

...I don't know. But you started it, I know that much ;)) Plus you told me I can't stop even if I haven't slept yet :>

AHAHAHAHAHflk;jasdflkjd

[malafede.livejournal.com]

DAMN RIGHT YOU CAN'T, I AM GIVING MY ARMY OF MONSTERS A PREPTALK AS WE SPEAK, YOU SPUNKY HEROINE.

YOU STARTED IT WHEN YOU DISSED P AND D'S PURE LOVE, WHICH I DON'T EVEN SHIP, BTW.