(no subject)
Nov. 21st, 2004 11:21 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaEspecially since I decided moth/flame was my OTP on Aja's journal yesterday, I'm now all wibbly 'cause of the Libertines. Ahahaha. Because it's like... *sigh* they seem to love each other so much and it's not enough. And that makes me all... unhappy with the world. I always thought (when I was 12 and listening to pop songs on the radio, anyway-- well, since then) that love not being enough was the Worst Thing Ever. And... maybe it's more passion than love, or more love/hate than love, or more... something else than love, I don't know. I used to ask myself 'is this love' a lot, but then I just gave up, I think.
I was just reading this interview with Carl and he said it was all 'water under the bridge' now, and I was like, WAIL. (You know, it's funny, because the part where he says 'we are all normal'-- meaning not gay-- doesn't bother me at all. I'm odd, man.)
It's like, this is why I escape to fiction, but I don't want to believe this is 'real life'. I wish there were examples of lasting passion to latch on to everywhere, and I just don't want to know why there aren't.
I don't know if it's possible. Is it possible to feel things intensely for another person-- so intensely you think you could crumble-- and have it last? Is it possible to stay friends with someone who makes you hurt to look at them, and have it get better, and still care even if they're being an utter and complete asshole and it just doesn't feel good anymore, but you care anyway because you can't stop? What if you can't stop?? How can one stop if it's really... there? Where does it go? Or does one just get tired and achey and it just doesn't matter anymore what one feels, because it's just too hard?
Is it always going to go up in smoke or find another outlet, or...? *sigh*
And then I realized... that's what H/D is to me. It's Carl & Pete and it's every stupid impossible bad relationship, and it's everything your mother tells you is bad for you, and it's everything that will never work, and that's why I want it to, but I'm just fooling myself, I know I am.
That's why it's hard to write H/D, now. It's always been about pushing that button in me-- and it's a sore place, and it hurts, it always hurts; maybe because I've felt it, because I feel like I've been there. It still seems like... it's impossible to go on, really, and believe it's impossible-- that intense pain and joy and everything is naturally going to dampen itself and dissolve into the mundane, because we are weak. We are only human. We can only feel so much, and then we stop.
It's not so much about love/hate relationships, it's about how one comes to feel like one hates love, and yet there's no escape from it. It attaches itself like a burr-- that's what I want and what I dread. I just don't want it to ever become water under the bridge. Years later, I want their reactions to each other to remain uncontrollable, their instincts to remain centered around the need to touch, even among the dust and bruises and pain. Ahhh, I don't even feel like the hug scene in PoA is slashy, but it fits-- I just want them to need to touch, no matter what. No matter how tired or disillusioned or exhausted with grief they become. I want them to always be each other's, come hell or high water or life, I suppose, because life is always much more cruel than death.
~~
See, the answer to all of this is-- it doesn't matter. Obsessing with all this is my crack. Maybe I'm just pushing myself to see how much angst I can take before I give and start writing My Little Pony slash. You know it's gonna happen!!
...Okay I'm better now -.-
I was just reading this interview with Carl and he said it was all 'water under the bridge' now, and I was like, WAIL. (You know, it's funny, because the part where he says 'we are all normal'-- meaning not gay-- doesn't bother me at all. I'm odd, man.)
It's like, this is why I escape to fiction, but I don't want to believe this is 'real life'. I wish there were examples of lasting passion to latch on to everywhere, and I just don't want to know why there aren't.
I don't know if it's possible. Is it possible to feel things intensely for another person-- so intensely you think you could crumble-- and have it last? Is it possible to stay friends with someone who makes you hurt to look at them, and have it get better, and still care even if they're being an utter and complete asshole and it just doesn't feel good anymore, but you care anyway because you can't stop? What if you can't stop?? How can one stop if it's really... there? Where does it go? Or does one just get tired and achey and it just doesn't matter anymore what one feels, because it's just too hard?
Is it always going to go up in smoke or find another outlet, or...? *sigh*
And then I realized... that's what H/D is to me. It's Carl & Pete and it's every stupid impossible bad relationship, and it's everything your mother tells you is bad for you, and it's everything that will never work, and that's why I want it to, but I'm just fooling myself, I know I am.
That's why it's hard to write H/D, now. It's always been about pushing that button in me-- and it's a sore place, and it hurts, it always hurts; maybe because I've felt it, because I feel like I've been there. It still seems like... it's impossible to go on, really, and believe it's impossible-- that intense pain and joy and everything is naturally going to dampen itself and dissolve into the mundane, because we are weak. We are only human. We can only feel so much, and then we stop.
It's not so much about love/hate relationships, it's about how one comes to feel like one hates love, and yet there's no escape from it. It attaches itself like a burr-- that's what I want and what I dread. I just don't want it to ever become water under the bridge. Years later, I want their reactions to each other to remain uncontrollable, their instincts to remain centered around the need to touch, even among the dust and bruises and pain. Ahhh, I don't even feel like the hug scene in PoA is slashy, but it fits-- I just want them to need to touch, no matter what. No matter how tired or disillusioned or exhausted with grief they become. I want them to always be each other's, come hell or high water or life, I suppose, because life is always much more cruel than death.
~~
See, the answer to all of this is-- it doesn't matter. Obsessing with all this is my crack. Maybe I'm just pushing myself to see how much angst I can take before I give and start writing My Little Pony slash. You know it's gonna happen!!
...Okay I'm better now -.-
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2004-11-21 09:21 pm (UTC)While it wasn't romantic love, I knew a girl once. I only knew her for seven weeks or so, but we became so close, such good friends because we thought and lived on the same wavelength. I was all detached and cold and young; she was all passion and insanity and young, too. And she drove me, after a while, absolutely mad. Her depressions, her fits - but she's the one of the few people now that I'd drop everything to go see, in an instant. We fit like nothing I've experienced since. And I do think a lot of it was youth and the euphoria of college-way-too-early-together and my art and poetry and her writing (god, she's brilliant) and I think I might feel absolutely nothing if I ever met her as she is now, 3 years later... but still.
It's the same sort of thing. I couldn't stand her at times and yet she'd still come to me and tell me secrets and I'd always, always listen, and I've never found anyone since that I've been so close to. I didn't love her then - I don't know if I do now. But - it's something. A strange, nostalgic, sad something.
Sigh. I don't know. Yeah. /end weird ramble
::hug::
no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 12:03 am (UTC)Ahhh, opposites attract (if there is a common basis) >:D
I've always been drawn to either uber-rational/logical or outgoing people, because I am neither outgoing nor rational/restrained :D I know just what sort of thing you mean-- it's like, so sudden and intense and fleeting, like a May rainstorm-- it's hard to tell what it is 'cause there isn't enough time to step back and then before you know it, something blows up.
It's sort of similar to my story, except it was a boy :> He really drove me completely insane. Almost literally ^^;
I am still trying to figure out how to have my cake and eat it too, I think, but aren't we all :>
>:D
no subject
Date: 2004-11-21 11:21 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-21 11:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 12:01 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 12:07 am (UTC)Like, you're looking at it from the outside-- I'm identifying.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 12:09 am (UTC)I just like Pete's posts when he's stoned, is that wrong? If it is, I don't want to be right.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 12:12 am (UTC)It's not about the Libertines to me. That's what I meant.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 12:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 12:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 12:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 12:23 am (UTC)...I need a HARRY OWNZ DRACO'S C0CK icon.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 12:39 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 12:45 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 12:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 12:27 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 12:41 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-21 11:35 pm (UTC)I have deliberately not been paying attention to the Libertines and so I consequently have no idea what you're talking about, haha. I assume Carl and Pete are the two boys who are always photographed being all sweaty and all over each other? Did they break up or something? Tough luck. (I'm not a fan, so. Eh.)
But. Short answer to this:
It's not so much about love/hate relationships, it's about how one comes to feel like one hates love, and yet there's no escape from it. It attaches itself like a burr-- that's what I want and what I dread. I just don't want it to ever become water under the bridge. Years later, I want their reactions to each other to remain uncontrollable, their instincts to remain centered around the need to touch, even among the dust and bruises and pain.
This is why I believe truly that love isn't something you only feel, it's something you do; that's why to me love is an act of will--you have to both will yourself to love someone else and believe in that love at once. Without that all that you may initially feel for them is really just smoke without fire. But if you constantly stoke the fire... you know? Love is action, and there are more ways to love someone than just through passionate emotional outbursts. Harry and Draco need to learn that just as much as the rest of us do. It doesn't mean they won't always have passion, because passion is in their nature, in the nature of both of them. My point is that you can't always expect love to look, feel, sound, act a certain way. That would get boring. When you have love backed by a strong will to love, however, then you have a love that can change forms and shape and still be real, valid, interesting.
Did that make any sense?
no subject
Date: 2004-11-21 11:46 pm (UTC)Also, I know exactly what you mean about the will to love, but I forget it 'cause I always get carried away by... er... the idea of being carried away and how carried away -I- always feel. Like... I rarely associate emotions with decisiveness or decisions, I guess, 'cause I've always had such a hard time controlling myself once I got going, y'know? But I think it's not about control-type will, but merely a question of pushing forward, of staying and working at it. I mean, people say it and it sounds like a chore or a pain, but it could be the greatest act of love, possibly-- that work.
...And you say you're not a spiritual leader~:))!! <3
no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 12:02 am (UTC)But I think it's not about control-type will, but merely a question of pushing forward, of staying and working at it. I mean, people say it and it sounds like a chore or a pain, but it could be the greatest act of love, possibly-- that work.
Well, I think you and I both do that, though, for the fandom. At least I do. When I feel absolutely no love whatsoever for the fandom or for my pairing, I lie low and work on concentrating on areas here that I do have interest in, and I build up that interest gradually. I can't leave, though I might someday, because my community is here and I love the people here, and I also love the pairing, even whe I don't feel the love. You do that too--even when you're griping about H/D and not wanting to write it, you're doing that out of love and we all know that. You stay and you work at it too, because you recognize that your love for the pairing and the aspects of it that you're drawn too hasn't changed, even though your emotional investment in it might have. I think that's a perfect reflection of the way relationships can work. Not always, but often.
And yeah, I do think that is the greatest act of love. Really, if I had my fic finished all this would be explained in there somewhere, haha, because all that I just said is behind everything that happens or will happen in LUW.
Oh, and this--because passion is in their nature, in the nature of both of them. -- hahaha, WHAT A CLUMSY PHRASE. I meant to say that it's in their nature both as individuals and as a dynamic. They can't stop being passionate, and they don't want to.
There should be some place to carry this discussion from there, but I am too tired to know where. Eh. Your turn.
and Pbbt! to that last part. I have a feeling Ghandi never toppled British India by saying "You must be the change you want to see in the world! That is why I write gay porn!"
no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 03:42 am (UTC)That's what I always thought was possible-- that passionate people could be lastingly passionate together. But I don't see it in the so-called 'real world' and it depresses me sometimes. I know -I- can't stop being myself (passionate or whatever else) either... though sometimes the passion fizzles for awhile, and then it's just faith that I'm still the same person that carries me along, it seems like.
I totally feel like that too-- like, if one could read my finished WiPs, one would totally understand everything I Really Mean about H/D. One can't help that, with a really long fic... it just comes out. A part of it might be why one has a hard time finishing it-- if it's like, a representation of one's relationship with H/D, then it makes sense why one might not -want- to really finish it, y'know? Even as sometimes I'd like nothing better than to feel like it's all over ^^;;
You know it's not about the gay porn, man (or at least, you know that's not really what you do.) <3
Spiritual leaders come in all shapes and sizes, anyway.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 11:43 am (UTC)<3. All these exchanges make me happy, I had to mention it.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 08:44 am (UTC)Is it possible to stay friends with someone who makes you hurt to look at them, and have it get better, and still care even if they're being an utter and complete asshole and it just doesn't feel good anymore, but you care anyway because you can't stop?
I know what that's like. And IT SUCKS. And you were asking 'what if you can't stop?' and I think...well, depending on the context, of course, but I think you have to stop, cause something like that can consume you. I mean, at the very least, you have to take a good step back, because it can be so difficult to see where you are in a situation like that, y'know? And it's something you don't even realize until you've distanced yourself from it and analyzed it. I'm, like, applying my life experiences without giving you any context whatsoever & so I don't know if I'm making sense. Do I ever make sense, lol? It's a question for the ages! Anyway.
And...about the love part, well, I'm not really going to talk about that, because I'm pretty much a cynic. Well, at least today, haha, cause I am also fickle. Right.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 01:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 02:20 pm (UTC)This depresses me, haha. I am going to (not) write dorky wedding fic. Notnotnot *fights the oppressiveness of my evil pen*
no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 04:48 pm (UTC)Also. Dorky wedding fic = cure for all evils!! >:D
....As long as it's not a Christmas wedding. Then it's Just Too Sappy ;)) :D :D :D
no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 05:16 pm (UTC)No, no Christmas wedding. Although you may have to stop me from using the lyrics to "Wonderwall"...
BECAUSE MAYYYBEEEEEEEEE YOU'RE GONNA BE THE ONE THAT SAAAAVES MEEEEEE...
Um. I'm just kidding. I think. But it does have drunk boys. So.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 06:09 pm (UTC)mmm, drunk!weddings..... :D
VEGAS BABY.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 07:23 pm (UTC)Like...it probably says (strange) things about me that in this instance, I wish they weren't English so there could be a redneck wedding. Y'know. Just because. Or...well, not, but I dream. And stuff. :)
no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 07:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 07:30 pm (UTC)CHEEK KISSING OMG IT IS THE CUTEST THING EVER! Heee ;)
no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 07:35 pm (UTC)My favorite image of H/D isn't porny at all, it's this (http://www.livejournal.com/users/gredandfeorge/41770.html#cutid1). That is how sad I really am :D
no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 07:46 pm (UTC)OMG, <3! That picture is adorable, with the almost-hand-holding! See, if you're sad, I am too. Because, like...I want them to be together even if they drive each other insane with the sniping & pettiness & etc. It's like my dream for them, or my dream of them, or something, because I know it can't ever be. But the same part of me that secretly adores conversation hearts & lovey-dovey eyes & hand-holding-beneath-the-dinner-table, like, that same part of me wants them to drive each other insane together, into old age...because somehow, they could always just look at each other - just look, just like that - and they would know.
OMG I'm such a nerrrrd, ahaha. :)
no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 08:03 pm (UTC)It's possible. I mean, it'd require change on both of their parts, naturally, but people can change... just.. rarely :>
no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 08:19 pm (UTC)And, I mean, even if they did, like...fall into normalcy (or, um, whatever 'normal' is for them, hehe) they'd still snipe at each other occasionally. Cause...it's just the way I see things. And, anyway, it makes me giggle. ;)
I just...find it difficult to believe that it could truly, truly be This Way, y'know? I want it to be, but *sigh* Oh well, haha, this is why I write silly, pointless stuff & try to believe. It's not impossible, the idea of them, but - well, maybe I'm just too cynical. :) I TRY TO REPRESS IT. Um.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 08:25 pm (UTC)You might like this (http://www.livejournal.com/users/the_gentleman/36438.html#cutid1), on that note, however~:)) And this one (http://www.ban-donn-ruadh.com/fiendling/fanfiction/rheumaticreunion.html)'s by
no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 08:39 pm (UTC)What defines them?
See, this is where I hit a rut, I think. Harry challenges Draco & Draco is always trying to best Harry & yes all that is true but. That's what drives them separately...what would drive them together? I don't know. Owww my brain hurts from all the thinking. ;)
no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 08:47 pm (UTC)What a cop-out answer, eh :>
I think the most interesting story about drives Harry & Draco together would be The Tale of the Shining Prince (http://seacouver.slashcity.net/illuferret/index.html#hp) & its sequels :> At some points, when canon & your own imagination fails you, what you need is fanon. :>
no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 08:55 pm (UTC)And obviously the answer is also that I spend too much time analyzing stuff, haha. And you are supposed to be on an H/D sabbatical, so I feel bad for dragging you into it. :)
no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 09:00 pm (UTC)It's like... mandatory homework-type stuff ;))
no subject
Date: 2004-11-22 09:11 pm (UTC)It's like...I say I think too much about all this kind of stuff, but reading these fics is what makes me think about it. And honestly, when it comes down to it, I think that's great, cause the more I get into it, the more I want to think about it. Which is why, really, it's surprising to me that I didn't know about the existence of this stuff until recently (I was such a dork, and it was sad, y'know, lol.)
no subject
Date: 2004-11-23 01:46 am (UTC)You're right, though-- the fanfic is really what started me on my H/D obsession, so definitely, it made me think more-- I guess I went through that stage & came out the other side :>