~~ subversion aversion reversion....

[reenka]

All right, this is going to sound weird, but... this is part of my long-running issue with the idea of subversive literary criticism. I realize it's my issue and may have limited application, as such.

So. Is it actually possible to subvert a text (or a system, also) by trying to subvert it, or in other words, make it turn in on itself (contradict itself)? For instance, given that you're a fan who is really in the community because you want to change the accepted-- or implicit-- definition/meaning of the text, at least within your own writing. Given that you're not there to 'work with' but rather 'work against' the text while using its boundaries (which would translate to 'remaining in character' as best you could). Would it actually be possible to apply the idea of 'success' to this endeavor?
    Is there such a thing as 'success' at purposefully working against canon without attempting to create fanon? Can fanfiction hold some sort of direct dialogue with canon and act as an actual critique of it, and if so, is that even desirable to people who'd consider themselves fans or only people who in fact aren't fans, and would thus not want to read said fanfic?

My knee-jerk response seems to be 'no'. That is, I think that in order to hold such a dialogue with the original text, a fanfic writer would have to be both subversive and simultaneously(!) project their imagination to be part of the flow of canon. I believe you couldn't truly subvert without fully feeling out the shape of the source text-- understanding its biases, listening to its tones, accepting its idiosyncracies to some extent. I suppose I mean, you can't fully remake a 'parent' text on a certain level, because the readership will always be aware of the differences. You can't really subvert, can you, if it doesn't feel 'real'-- if the readers are just suspending their disbelief. If the fic doesn't read like a lost part of canon, basically.


In my Tolkien & Lewis class, we are allowed to write fanfic for our final project, and one of the stipulations of our professor's guidelines is that the story 'work with' the text. That is, she wants us to imitate the tone & language, and to have our fics really feel like they're part of that world. And since the general atmosphere is part of the world, one feels like to really write fic set in it, you'd have to adopt at least some aspect of the style of original portrayal. I'm not saying that's all that's worthwhile to do, since worth is naturally subjective, only that if the implicit goal is to set a fic in a borrowed world, you'd want to borrow as much as possible.

I think... this wouldn't concern me nearly as much if I didn't feel, with a sort of sinking sensation in my stomach, that nearly all the fic I've read in the HP fandom, -ever-, has been subversive in some way-- had set out to twist and play with canon (which is definitely fun) without a concurrent sense of also flowing along its lines. This goes beyond facts, precisely, and into atmosphere-- the feel of the original. So that when you read it, regardless of the quirks of the characters' behavior, you'd think, 'this is them! I am back there, in the world I love! I am back!' Admittedly, this is perhaps the most difficult thing a fan-writer could try to achieve, but it also seems that as a fan, it would be the most delightful.

And yeah, I realize that I'm talking about what sounds like 'genfic' through and through-- but boy, do I wish one could write slashfic & hetfic like that, too. It's the (good) comics-writer's model, really-- take an existing canon, write new issues with the past events/characterizations/styles in mind (hopefully), but expand to include new pairings, new adventures, new angles... like a hidden secret passage. Suddenly you think, oh my god, what if JK Rowling meant for this to happen? I totally thought this with slash sometimes-- like with Miss Breed's `Red', and Aspen's writing (hahaha!!). So like, you could have tricksy subversion that works by popping up when you've already decided 'oh good, danger's past'. That'd be so cool.

Comments

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

It's probably not surprising that this is something I've thought about a great deal, particlarly since my personal writing style is about 50,000 miles away from JKR's. I'm not sure what I think about it.

Because on one hand, I'm very picky about characterization and on the other I'm not really picky about, say, writing style or atmosphere? And to some degree this may be a result of the subject matter I choose: there's more room for deviation in the 70's or with the adult generation than the trio's because we know less about them, and we can always say, well the 70's WERE dark, so maybe that darker tone is appropriate, or well, Harry's 15, so the atmosphere of the world seen through his eyes will always differ from the atmosphere seen through, say, Snape's.

And I think that's a big issue there, because if you're writing with a similar style or atmosphere to JKR's, and you're writing from Snape's POV, you're going to be writing OOC, really.

Which, I guess, is why I end up writing/reading stuff that, while characterized well and accurately, could never in a million years be mistaken for canon.

Does that make sense?

Anyway, so would it be the most delightful as a fan? I think it depends on what you're a fan OF, you know?

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

P.S. You think a lot.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Here I feel I should say that rumors of my brain-size have been greatly exaggerrated :> :>

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

LOL! Well, seriously, you do. I think a great deal too, I'm just usually too lazy to write it out. ;) But if you talk to me on IM, for example, for any long stretch of time, you start getting essays. ;)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

People tell me this a lot-- I mean, that they don't bother writing out what they think. I'm always like... dude. If writing was effort for me, I'd never write anything. Am I really alone in my writing-is-more-natural-than-breathing land of hopelessly verbal?? Ahahahah. It really is a function of existence, for me. I think, however, this is why people don't really seem to get my actual point more than half the time-- that is, since I just spew & don't bother to censor myself, what ends up happening is that I only make sense (the way I intended) to a select few group of questionably lucky individuals :>

Like... most of the time, my replies to comments go like this: "but nooo, that's not what I meant...! It's the exact opposite with a secret twist at the end! Noooooooooo...." :> Le sigh. It's probably better to have more of a buffer between thought & writing/speech than I do :>

Which is to say-- I think I write even more than I think ;)) Ahahahahah. *coughs*
I feel I should catch you on AIM, then, though it seems like you use y!m instead (which if I'm ever on, I curse the universe 'cause EVERYONE IS INVISIBLE-- WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE??!)

Anyway, I'm about as lazy with that medium as most people are with 'formal' posts on lj. I dunno, it's that 'other people' thing, I think :> :> But now I'm all curious about those essays :D

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Am I really alone in my writing-is-more-natural-than-breathing land of hopelessly verbal??

LMAO! Yes you are! Hehehe.

But yeah, the issue is that I'm hopelessly structured. I can't just talk about something like this, I'd have to make a point list or something, and that's just too much trouble. ;)

And yeah, I detest AIM with an all-consuming passion and Never, Ever, EVER go on it. Same with MSN. And I dunno why everyone else is always invis but I am because I don't like talking to people. ;)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'd probably never say anything if I actually had to think & organize (oh, horror of horrors!!) before I write. I can't believe anyone ever actually takes my college essays seriously (like, y'know, my professors). Or that anyone takes me seriously period. But, er... *looks around furtively* it's okay, I don't mind or nothin' ;))


... But then, how do you like... actually talk to -anyone- on y!m? Of course, apparently lately there's been "only non-invisible to chosen users", I guess. I mean, I -might- possibly show up sometime, y'know (I'm people too, right). Eh, I'm never invisible, so it works out I suppose :>

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

... But then, how do you like... actually talk to -anyone- on y!m?

LMAO!!!!!! Well, Yahoo doesn't turn you uninvis if you talk to people. But honestly, the only person, the ONLY person I talk to is Lara. She's basically my reason for having an IM service to begin with.

Once a... YEAR or so I might talk to someone else, but I'm basically the most asocial person ever born, yes.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I don't really talk to anyone on a constant basis, but then, that's because I don't want to waste away just talking all the time (this happened once upon a time), since I'm easily addicted. Man, I'm always both pleased and weirded out that there are actually people more asocial than I, but I guess where else would someone like that be except the internet :>

I mean, I'm asocial all right, just... once you get me started... I talk a lot. And by a lot I mean... a lot.
*sniff* Man, those legendary essays, so tantalizingly out of reach. *faraway dreamy look*

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

The addiction to talking is kind of a problem, actually. Like, I never write when I'm chatting all the time - I discovered that in my last fandom. So yeah, your way is probably the sane way. ;)

And I do talk a lot when I'm talking, but I don't do that much, except on Livejournal.

and HAHAHA dude, you don't wanna hear me pontificate, it's a freakish thing, and Lara sits there going "... yeah" a lot. :D

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Eheheh I can't believe I just had the word 'sane' applied to me as an example :D :D AHAHAHAHAH *wheezes* No, really, if it's not one thing it's another. Talking online helps me be not -quite- a complete hermit who never pokes her nose outside. It's a close thing. Though honestly, I feel I shouldn't be doing it online at all, y'know, since I have this slight paranoia that maybe I only have so much 'talk' in me & maybe I use it all up on lj & there's just nothing left over for being a gregarious university student that I KNOW I COULD BE DAMMIT. (...or not.)

I totally enjoy listening to people (that I like) pontificate-- saves -me- from having to, doesn't it :)) Or sometimes I pontificate right back, which could possibly be hazardous to someone's health.

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

ROFLMAO!!!!!!

I just don't want to be social, to be honest. So yeah, none of that. ;)

That thing about running out of stuff to say, though... might be something to that, because I think I'm kind of out of words right now hahah!

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Ahhh, I totally forgot to differentiate between fans of this or fans of that.... Projecting again. When I really-really like a book (show, etc), I tend to like it for its entirety, I guess...? Not just its characterizations (or even just -some- of its characterizations) or its writing style or subject-matter, but rather the -feel- and sensation of what that world and the people in it are like. Usually there's some overriding... er... smell-sense(??!) I get by which I identify a particular book's/series' world. And I miss it when it's gone, moreso than I'd miss a single character, who'd be easier to 're-create' purely in my imagination/memory alone.

Perhaps I'm er... an odd duck. No, almost certainly.

And I wasn't meaning to stress writing style so much-- I mean, I don't even -want- to see JKR-style writing 'cause she doesn't really have a great style to start with (...er). I'd be more going for 'feel' and 'direction' which is even harder to quantify. 'Spirit'??? I think one can approach the same spirit with many different words & paths and things. I mean, that's the founding rule of fanfic, isn't it? Or something.

I'm not really picky about atmosphere with HP, but I really really am when I actually care about and love the source. I mean, in that case I end up reading virtually no fanfic, but if I ever do come across something that works for me and gives me that feeling of 'hi honey! I'm home!!'... oh man, the happy :D

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

When I really-really like a book (show, etc), I tend to like it for its entirety, I guess...? Not just its characterizations (or even just -some- of its characterizations) or its writing style or subject-matter, but rather the -feel- and sensation of what that world and the people in it are like.

Yeah, see, things like the feel of something? That's pretty much too abstract for me to worry about, which is why I say I'm a fan of characterization or plot or whatever. I usually don't really register the atmosphere etc: my biggest comment on the HP series' is "kinda too simplistic for me, actually."

And yet, I can understand what you mean because I have the same reaction, oddly enough, with characters. Like, someone can write Sirius very differently than I see him, for example, and yet I will still believe that This Is Sirius because he retains the Spirit of Sirius. Alternately, people can write Siriuses who seem to go through a checklist of things I like in a Sirius, and yet seem off because he doesn't feel like Sirius. Yeah. Subjective, but there you go.

I'm not a big fan of fanfic, really, but yeah if I really love something I pretty much read NO fanfic. It seems sacrilegious. Or something.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Yes! That is what I'm looking for! Subversion while retaining the spirit!! That is the only way to truly subvert! Wahahah, watch me plan my revolution of none! Or something.

Anyway, yeah-- that's my favorite sensation in reading fanfic, prolly-- that feeling of yeah, that's it, whether in terms of characterization or mood or setting or anything-- as long as some strong whiff of intuitive rightness exists, all is-- well, right with the world :> I get this the most with Harry, btw (ahahah we are both kind of transparent in that regard, what with the playing favorites & obsession = attention & so on).

Like, as Cassie was saying below-- that no one has written a 100% believable 'feeling' fanfic-- I'd have to say that it doesn't need to be believable all the way if that spirit of at least One True Thing is there. I mean, Harry is my One True Thing (aka measuring stick), but, y'know, different strokes, etc.

I tend to read no fanfic for my favorite things too-- no one's good enough for my babies, etc. It's just my experience with collaborative worlds (like comics & some series of short-story collections) that made me open to possibility.

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Hmm, my One True Thing is definitely Remus/Sirius. Yes, them as a pair. For me to believe a story with them together (I don't really read stories where they aren't, so I have no opinion there) I have to feel that the spirit of their dynamic is present, which means no blatant mischaracterization on either of them, and no WTFness in how they act together.

Sirius is my favorite character, but he isn't my yardstick or anything. So yeah.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Y'know, it's such an odd thing... but as much as there's this idea of 'fanon!Draco' & even 'fanon!Harry', I don't really think there's any singular trend of the H/D dynamic that I could tap into. Like, that definitely remains what I'm always looking for (since I don't really read-- or write-- Harry-centric stories), but in a pairing where everyone's Draco is either different or wrong to some degree, I overcompensate & fuss with Harry. It's like, there's no acceptable, steady Draco I could depend on seeing written that would give me a constant characterization of them as a couple. It's rather odd to realize, come to think of it.

I think what I meant was that I had those moments of 'yes! hey, that's Harry!' with Harry but not with Harry/Draco as a unit. Much as I'd like to :>

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Well, that's probably because H/D as a romantic pairing is pretty much outside of canon bounds inherently. Which is to say, you can't say you want to see them as they're presented in canon, because in canon they hate each other. So, working from there, there are a billion different ways to get them together.

Whereas with something like R/S, which is present in canon (not necessarily in a romantic sense, but you get a feel for their dynamic, know what I mean?) someone like me will try to find a way of presenting them romantically that replicates the dynamic they already have.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

...I have the oddest feeling of being jealous of your OTP.

...And then I remember there really isn't any more IC S/R fic than H/D fic ;))!!

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

*dies*!

Yeah, funny isn't it?