~~ subversion aversion reversion....
Nov. 9th, 2004 05:32 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaAll right, this is going to sound weird, but... this is part of my long-running issue with the idea of subversive literary criticism. I realize it's my issue and may have limited application, as such.
So. Is it actually possible to subvert a text (or a system, also) by trying to subvert it, or in other words, make it turn in on itself (contradict itself)? For instance, given that you're a fan who is really in the community because you want to change the accepted-- or implicit-- definition/meaning of the text, at least within your own writing. Given that you're not there to 'work with' but rather 'work against' the text while using its boundaries (which would translate to 'remaining in character' as best you could). Would it actually be possible to apply the idea of 'success' to this endeavor?
Is there such a thing as 'success' at purposefully working against canon without attempting to create fanon? Can fanfiction hold some sort of direct dialogue with canon and act as an actual critique of it, and if so, is that even desirable to people who'd consider themselves fans or only people who in fact aren't fans, and would thus not want to read said fanfic?
My knee-jerk response seems to be 'no'. That is, I think that in order to hold such a dialogue with the original text, a fanfic writer would have to be both subversive and simultaneously(!) project their imagination to be part of the flow of canon. I believe you couldn't truly subvert without fully feeling out the shape of the source text-- understanding its biases, listening to its tones, accepting its idiosyncracies to some extent. I suppose I mean, you can't fully remake a 'parent' text on a certain level, because the readership will always be aware of the differences. You can't really subvert, can you, if it doesn't feel 'real'-- if the readers are just suspending their disbelief. If the fic doesn't read like a lost part of canon, basically.
In my Tolkien & Lewis class, we are allowed to write fanfic for our final project, and one of the stipulations of our professor's guidelines is that the story 'work with' the text. That is, she wants us to imitate the tone & language, and to have our fics really feel like they're part of that world. And since the general atmosphere is part of the world, one feels like to really write fic set in it, you'd have to adopt at least some aspect of the style of original portrayal. I'm not saying that's all that's worthwhile to do, since worth is naturally subjective, only that if the implicit goal is to set a fic in a borrowed world, you'd want to borrow as much as possible.
I think... this wouldn't concern me nearly as much if I didn't feel, with a sort of sinking sensation in my stomach, that nearly all the fic I've read in the HP fandom, -ever-, has been subversive in some way-- had set out to twist and play with canon (which is definitely fun) without a concurrent sense of also flowing along its lines. This goes beyond facts, precisely, and into atmosphere-- the feel of the original. So that when you read it, regardless of the quirks of the characters' behavior, you'd think, 'this is them! I am back there, in the world I love! I am back!' Admittedly, this is perhaps the most difficult thing a fan-writer could try to achieve, but it also seems that as a fan, it would be the most delightful.
And yeah, I realize that I'm talking about what sounds like 'genfic' through and through-- but boy, do I wish one could write slashfic & hetfic like that, too. It's the (good) comics-writer's model, really-- take an existing canon, write new issues with the past events/characterizations/styles in mind (hopefully), but expand to include new pairings, new adventures, new angles... like a hidden secret passage. Suddenly you think, oh my god, what if JK Rowling meant for this to happen? I totally thought this with slash sometimes-- like with Miss Breed's `Red', and Aspen's writing (hahaha!!). So like, you could have tricksy subversion that works by popping up when you've already decided 'oh good, danger's past'. That'd be so cool.
So. Is it actually possible to subvert a text (or a system, also) by trying to subvert it, or in other words, make it turn in on itself (contradict itself)? For instance, given that you're a fan who is really in the community because you want to change the accepted-- or implicit-- definition/meaning of the text, at least within your own writing. Given that you're not there to 'work with' but rather 'work against' the text while using its boundaries (which would translate to 'remaining in character' as best you could). Would it actually be possible to apply the idea of 'success' to this endeavor?
Is there such a thing as 'success' at purposefully working against canon without attempting to create fanon? Can fanfiction hold some sort of direct dialogue with canon and act as an actual critique of it, and if so, is that even desirable to people who'd consider themselves fans or only people who in fact aren't fans, and would thus not want to read said fanfic?
My knee-jerk response seems to be 'no'. That is, I think that in order to hold such a dialogue with the original text, a fanfic writer would have to be both subversive and simultaneously(!) project their imagination to be part of the flow of canon. I believe you couldn't truly subvert without fully feeling out the shape of the source text-- understanding its biases, listening to its tones, accepting its idiosyncracies to some extent. I suppose I mean, you can't fully remake a 'parent' text on a certain level, because the readership will always be aware of the differences. You can't really subvert, can you, if it doesn't feel 'real'-- if the readers are just suspending their disbelief. If the fic doesn't read like a lost part of canon, basically.
In my Tolkien & Lewis class, we are allowed to write fanfic for our final project, and one of the stipulations of our professor's guidelines is that the story 'work with' the text. That is, she wants us to imitate the tone & language, and to have our fics really feel like they're part of that world. And since the general atmosphere is part of the world, one feels like to really write fic set in it, you'd have to adopt at least some aspect of the style of original portrayal. I'm not saying that's all that's worthwhile to do, since worth is naturally subjective, only that if the implicit goal is to set a fic in a borrowed world, you'd want to borrow as much as possible.
I think... this wouldn't concern me nearly as much if I didn't feel, with a sort of sinking sensation in my stomach, that nearly all the fic I've read in the HP fandom, -ever-, has been subversive in some way-- had set out to twist and play with canon (which is definitely fun) without a concurrent sense of also flowing along its lines. This goes beyond facts, precisely, and into atmosphere-- the feel of the original. So that when you read it, regardless of the quirks of the characters' behavior, you'd think, 'this is them! I am back there, in the world I love! I am back!' Admittedly, this is perhaps the most difficult thing a fan-writer could try to achieve, but it also seems that as a fan, it would be the most delightful.
And yeah, I realize that I'm talking about what sounds like 'genfic' through and through-- but boy, do I wish one could write slashfic & hetfic like that, too. It's the (good) comics-writer's model, really-- take an existing canon, write new issues with the past events/characterizations/styles in mind (hopefully), but expand to include new pairings, new adventures, new angles... like a hidden secret passage. Suddenly you think, oh my god, what if JK Rowling meant for this to happen? I totally thought this with slash sometimes-- like with Miss Breed's `Red', and Aspen's writing (hahaha!!). So like, you could have tricksy subversion that works by popping up when you've already decided 'oh good, danger's past'. That'd be so cool.
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no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 04:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 04:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 05:00 pm (UTC)Like... most of the time, my replies to comments go like this: "but nooo, that's not what I meant...! It's the exact opposite with a secret twist at the end! Noooooooooo...." :> Le sigh. It's probably better to have more of a buffer between thought & writing/speech than I do :>
Which is to say-- I think I write even more than I think ;)) Ahahahahah. *coughs*
I feel I should catch you on AIM, then, though it seems like you use y!m instead (which if I'm ever on, I curse the universe 'cause EVERYONE IS INVISIBLE-- WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE??!)
Anyway, I'm about as lazy with that medium as most people are with 'formal' posts on lj. I dunno, it's that 'other people' thing, I think :> :> But now I'm all curious about those essays :D
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 05:22 pm (UTC)LMAO! Yes you are! Hehehe.
But yeah, the issue is that I'm hopelessly structured. I can't just talk about something like this, I'd have to make a point list or something, and that's just too much trouble. ;)
And yeah, I detest AIM with an all-consuming passion and Never, Ever, EVER go on it. Same with MSN. And I dunno why everyone else is always invis but I am because I don't like talking to people. ;)
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 05:29 pm (UTC)... But then, how do you like... actually talk to -anyone- on y!m? Of course, apparently lately there's been "only non-invisible to chosen users", I guess. I mean, I -might- possibly show up sometime, y'know (I'm people too, right). Eh, I'm never invisible, so it works out I suppose :>
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 05:36 pm (UTC)LMAO!!!!!! Well, Yahoo doesn't turn you uninvis if you talk to people. But honestly, the only person, the ONLY person I talk to is Lara. She's basically my reason for having an IM service to begin with.
Once a... YEAR or so I might talk to someone else, but I'm basically the most asocial person ever born, yes.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 05:41 pm (UTC)I mean, I'm asocial all right, just... once you get me started... I talk a lot. And by a lot I mean... a lot.
*sniff* Man, those legendary essays, so tantalizingly out of reach. *faraway dreamy look*
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 05:57 pm (UTC)And I do talk a lot when I'm talking, but I don't do that much, except on Livejournal.
and HAHAHA dude, you don't wanna hear me pontificate, it's a freakish thing, and Lara sits there going "... yeah" a lot. :D
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 06:03 pm (UTC)I totally enjoy listening to people (that I like) pontificate-- saves -me- from having to, doesn't it :)) Or sometimes I pontificate right back, which could possibly be hazardous to someone's health.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 06:37 pm (UTC)I just don't want to be social, to be honest. So yeah, none of that. ;)
That thing about running out of stuff to say, though... might be something to that, because I think I'm kind of out of words right now hahah!