(the fire & taboos)
Aug. 14th, 2004 04:39 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaI was wondering why people repeatedly write the things they do-- what are your themes? Are you conscious of having themes? Is there something in particular that obsesses you about the pairing you choose over any other; and if your pairings are many & varied, is there some thread connecting your most common approach to them...?
Do people usually write through asking themselves questions, or do they more often just express whatever unlabeled emotional morass squirms inside them? It's a mixture of these things, isn't it. Asking 'what if' and 'why' and 'how'-- that's going to be why we write as much as asking 'what' (as in, 'what do I feel strongly about?')
It's curious to me, the idea that something can be 'too raw' or 'too personal' or 'too taboo' (too anything!) to write about-- because if I don't write about the most personal, emotional things to me, what is there to drive me onwards? What else is there besides whatever inflames one's passion? How can a writer -not- focus on what they're most passionate about?
Similarly, I don't quite see where 'morals' fit into all of this. Like, the ethics of what one actually -does- in the 'real world' as a person-- how should (does?) that really interact with what one deals with in fiction? Not that fiction is 'just fantasy' by any means-- but what is it if not 'no holds barred' in terms of what we approach? How can one have even one taboo subject without threatening the very basis of an artist's integrity?
I started thinking about this 'cause I did get flames on Fiction Alley about my Ron/Ginny fic (which made me laugh, no worries) because it was incest & therefore (morally) 'wrong'. Some people complimented me on being 'brave' enough to write it even though I knew (apparently) that I'd get flamed. Heh. Honestly, the idea of what anyone's going to think never crosses my mind before starting to write. As I edit & after I finish-- sure. But before? There's only the inspiration-- the urge to get it out.
What morality can exist within the artist's impulse? Sure, moral judgement exists within the characters and the society one portrays, as well as within the personality of the author and the eventual reader-- but how would it apply to the impetus itself? Are not the darkest things some of the most fascinating?
Basically, something tells me people aren't necessarily writing for the same reasons, even when it's about one subject. They're taking the same themes, even taking the same two characters and types of characterizations of said characters, and it's still something -different-. That's really what makes or breaks an H/D fic for me, as much as characterization or writing style-- whether the themes underlying the writer's perception of them as a couple match what I'm looking to explore.
I just realized that I like(?) to write about emotional brutality; well, in sexualized terms specifically. I don't know why, but as far as I can tell, it's pretty true. That's a big part of what attracts me about H/D. The way that passion rips you apart and the hope that it'll put you back together. The way that needing another person, that obsession-- the way it can twist you and define you and empower and destroy you at once. Desire the destroyer-- love the revealer; both at once. It has to be both at once.
Instinctually, I wonder how could H/D be any other way, really, but I realize this is a trick of my own perception, which is hard to escape. This is what I see, because it's what I want to see. I ask the question: can it work? How can it work? Tell me the truth. And I feel like the question is somehow the goal in itself, perhaps, moreso than any resolution. There can be no resolution, with violent/adversarial love-- only constant struggle. To take away the conflict in life sometimes seems like an almost destructive act-- as if it's to take away the drive one has to keep living. To keep going.
All the fluffy H/D out there is telling me that this isn't what people are looking for: this isn't what they want. They want a spicier, but essentially more traditional romance. Adversarial resentment may be hot to start with, but then you have to get past it: to settle down. Have a 'real' relationship, which means talking about things and liking and respecting the other person, right. Yeah.
Except... well... I don't care about that, so. Well, I don't. I love friendship-- I've always been obsessed with reading about passionate friendship, so it's not that this is something that doesn't interest me as a story. It's just a question of what I'm interested in personally exploring repeatedly in terms of romance, I think, and that gets to be much more about sexuality and how one deals with intense desire. H/D isn't really about love or hate, to me: those are just words. It's about more basic things-- more raw, elemental, base urges-- things like hunger, need, desire, craving, loneliness, visceral disgust, rage, fear, the need to be protected, the need to be alone, the fight-or-flight response.
Harry and Draco are both very emotionally immature for their age in different ways, and that's why I love them. That's why stories about them post-Hogwarts, when things are different, when they've 'gotten over it' to some degree, just don't touch me-- I don't even instinctively 'get' the appeal. If they're 'over' it, who cares? I never want either of them to be over any it (the rage, the hate, the pettiness, the misunderstanding, the resentment, the competitiveness, the need-- all of it). Ever. I want them to be with their hands around each other's throats, whether literally or metaphorically, at their deathbed. I want them to never stop burning. I want the fire.
I want to write about the fire. About burning alive. About need. When your whole heart is bursting with need, and you can do nothing about it-- it just festers and poisons you, your inability to really connect with that one person or any person. Or, you can connect, but you can never connect -fully-. Always frustrated. Always alone. Kinda... y'know, existential angst, basically, except with porn and angry teenagers. That's what I dig. Like, on the most visceral level, anyway-- clearly other things are fun to write about too. Just not as... um... brutally 'fun', I guess?
~~
Do people usually write through asking themselves questions, or do they more often just express whatever unlabeled emotional morass squirms inside them? It's a mixture of these things, isn't it. Asking 'what if' and 'why' and 'how'-- that's going to be why we write as much as asking 'what' (as in, 'what do I feel strongly about?')
It's curious to me, the idea that something can be 'too raw' or 'too personal' or 'too taboo' (too anything!) to write about-- because if I don't write about the most personal, emotional things to me, what is there to drive me onwards? What else is there besides whatever inflames one's passion? How can a writer -not- focus on what they're most passionate about?
Similarly, I don't quite see where 'morals' fit into all of this. Like, the ethics of what one actually -does- in the 'real world' as a person-- how should (does?) that really interact with what one deals with in fiction? Not that fiction is 'just fantasy' by any means-- but what is it if not 'no holds barred' in terms of what we approach? How can one have even one taboo subject without threatening the very basis of an artist's integrity?
I started thinking about this 'cause I did get flames on Fiction Alley about my Ron/Ginny fic (which made me laugh, no worries) because it was incest & therefore (morally) 'wrong'. Some people complimented me on being 'brave' enough to write it even though I knew (apparently) that I'd get flamed. Heh. Honestly, the idea of what anyone's going to think never crosses my mind before starting to write. As I edit & after I finish-- sure. But before? There's only the inspiration-- the urge to get it out.
What morality can exist within the artist's impulse? Sure, moral judgement exists within the characters and the society one portrays, as well as within the personality of the author and the eventual reader-- but how would it apply to the impetus itself? Are not the darkest things some of the most fascinating?
Basically, something tells me people aren't necessarily writing for the same reasons, even when it's about one subject. They're taking the same themes, even taking the same two characters and types of characterizations of said characters, and it's still something -different-. That's really what makes or breaks an H/D fic for me, as much as characterization or writing style-- whether the themes underlying the writer's perception of them as a couple match what I'm looking to explore.
I just realized that I like(?) to write about emotional brutality; well, in sexualized terms specifically. I don't know why, but as far as I can tell, it's pretty true. That's a big part of what attracts me about H/D. The way that passion rips you apart and the hope that it'll put you back together. The way that needing another person, that obsession-- the way it can twist you and define you and empower and destroy you at once. Desire the destroyer-- love the revealer; both at once. It has to be both at once.
Instinctually, I wonder how could H/D be any other way, really, but I realize this is a trick of my own perception, which is hard to escape. This is what I see, because it's what I want to see. I ask the question: can it work? How can it work? Tell me the truth. And I feel like the question is somehow the goal in itself, perhaps, moreso than any resolution. There can be no resolution, with violent/adversarial love-- only constant struggle. To take away the conflict in life sometimes seems like an almost destructive act-- as if it's to take away the drive one has to keep living. To keep going.
All the fluffy H/D out there is telling me that this isn't what people are looking for: this isn't what they want. They want a spicier, but essentially more traditional romance. Adversarial resentment may be hot to start with, but then you have to get past it: to settle down. Have a 'real' relationship, which means talking about things and liking and respecting the other person, right. Yeah.
Except... well... I don't care about that, so. Well, I don't. I love friendship-- I've always been obsessed with reading about passionate friendship, so it's not that this is something that doesn't interest me as a story. It's just a question of what I'm interested in personally exploring repeatedly in terms of romance, I think, and that gets to be much more about sexuality and how one deals with intense desire. H/D isn't really about love or hate, to me: those are just words. It's about more basic things-- more raw, elemental, base urges-- things like hunger, need, desire, craving, loneliness, visceral disgust, rage, fear, the need to be protected, the need to be alone, the fight-or-flight response.
Harry and Draco are both very emotionally immature for their age in different ways, and that's why I love them. That's why stories about them post-Hogwarts, when things are different, when they've 'gotten over it' to some degree, just don't touch me-- I don't even instinctively 'get' the appeal. If they're 'over' it, who cares? I never want either of them to be over any it (the rage, the hate, the pettiness, the misunderstanding, the resentment, the competitiveness, the need-- all of it). Ever. I want them to be with their hands around each other's throats, whether literally or metaphorically, at their deathbed. I want them to never stop burning. I want the fire.
I want to write about the fire. About burning alive. About need. When your whole heart is bursting with need, and you can do nothing about it-- it just festers and poisons you, your inability to really connect with that one person or any person. Or, you can connect, but you can never connect -fully-. Always frustrated. Always alone. Kinda... y'know, existential angst, basically, except with porn and angry teenagers. That's what I dig. Like, on the most visceral level, anyway-- clearly other things are fun to write about too. Just not as... um... brutally 'fun', I guess?
~~
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no subject
Date: 2004-08-14 02:53 am (UTC)something quite similar happened to me because of a chanslash fic I wrote (a severus/draco).
and I started thinking about answers for the same questions. actually, I looked for them, which was a quite easy things to do, because of my studies (literature and criticism).
eventually, I've come to the conclusion that no, there's not a universally accepted list of subjects on which the artist shouldn't thread.
this assumption would make the artist free to create at his/her own will.
but here comes the trick.
most artists have their own list of taboos (just think about Proust and his masquerade of homosexuality issues...) that they can't easily dismiss. you can ignore people that judge you without bothering to understand, to see things differently. but can you ignore yourself, your inner disgust about a certain theme?
this brings us to the moral matter. the weight of morals on society has shifted, but not changed. in other times there were themes you just couldn't touch. now we are said that everything is at our arm-reach (or pen-reach...). but then, when we make our choices, we are often thrown because of them into the hell of pointless criticism, just because we have been the only ones to not have noticed the label which said "you better not choose this one, dear".
Are not the darkest things some of the most fascinating?
oh yes, they are. at least for me. other (most) people are afraid of the dark, of not knowing in advance.
because it's better/easier venturing down the countryside than exploring the jungle. who knows what encounters you could make there.
I want to write about the fire. About burning alive. About need. When your whole heart is bursting with need, and you can do nothing about it-- it just festers and poisons you, your inability to really connect with that one person or any person. Or, you can connect, but you can never connect -fully-. Always frustrated. Always alone. Kinda... y'know, existential angst, basically, except with porn and angry teenagers. That's what I dig. Like, on the most visceral level, anyway-- clearly other things are fun to write about too. Just not as... um... brutally 'fun', I guess?
not brutally fun, not at all. it's quite a difficult theme you has chosen, because it's one of the most truly human. and most people don't like being put in front of a mirror that tells them that yes, they are just like that, or worse, that no, they aren't like that, they will never be able to be.
better have a perfect little world that we can hold in the palm of our hand and crush when we begin to believe too much in it, telling ourselves that after all it was just an illusion.
better that than a raw emotion displayed in front of us, pulsing and alive and demanding, as if it was our own heart just ripped out of our chest, in a burst of brutal reality.
and if you are wondering, I cheer for this latter...
blue
(hoping to have make some sense, at least, and always enjoying your entries... food for the thoughts, they are! ;D)
no subject
Date: 2004-08-15 05:16 am (UTC)Yeah, I felt pretty stupid to have not even thought about the concept that someone could say 'incest shouldn't be touched'. Hahah. I didn't get the memo. I think I just rarely really touch really controversial subject by accident, since really I'm pretty vanilla (my R/G was really vanilla, other than being incest, y'know), so. Heh. I was like, whoa, people are much more sensitive than I am, clearly. o_0
I wouldn't claim I wasn't afraid of the dark. It's just. I can't leave it alone, because otherwise I feel like I'm lying to myself & pretending, if I do it all the time, y'know? I like a balance of things.
I dunno if I've chosen that theme so much as it has chosen me~:) And also, I don't write that exclusively, it's just that my vision of H/D seems to lend itself to it so well. And it's probably no accident that I write H/D more than anything else, of course. *sigh* Brutal reality. To me, that's a hopeful thought. 'Cause then whatever happiness we find is truly -there- in 3d real color. And I'm just perfectionist like that. I need it to be really really real.
Yeah, you made sense :D
~reena
no subject
Date: 2004-08-14 03:40 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-14 07:35 am (UTC)I think...the thing about morals is it's like you say, people write to "get it out." Since writing comes from inside you, everything you put on the page is you. And I don't think people can write things well if they're spending their time avoiding what they *really* want to write (like, if you really want to write Percy/Ron, but you think that's immoral so you'll write, hmmm, H/G instead, it's not going to be interesting...unless in your head you're still secretly writing Percy/Ron. I firmly believe that restraints imposed on an author can be a good thing accidentally).
I think people are way off when they think the "morals" of a writer are present in their pairing or the situation they are writing about, because that's just...it's just a vehicle for what they want to say. If all an incest fic is saying is that incest is okay, that's not saying much. Where your morals come in is more subtle. Reading a story after a while you can sort of see what somebody is saying.
But anyway it fascinates me to know what writers write over and over, because of course you don't really think about it that way, do you. You think of the story first or what stories you like and then if you decide to analyze it maybe you can see what you feel like you have to "say" beyond just telling the story.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-15 04:55 am (UTC)And yes! That's it exactly! If all a story is is its most general subject-matter, then what good is it? Like... usually a theme that broad is just a way of exploring something else-- something about how families function, or how trust functions, or how siblings have blurry boundaries or how power relationships can get unbalanced or how one grows up... or just... a lot of things. Sex can be a way of writing about anger or fear or just-- a number of things besides y'know, the usual love/lust thing. Heh. But. I dunno, does this have something to do with the level of sophistication or experience a reader has, knowing this? Does one only realize it after reading a wide enough range of literature, and one's default state is to link morality to one's writing directly?
I mean... it seems like the people who aren't really voracious readers at all are the ones most likely to point fingers (like say... some religious fanatic or political group or something). Maybe it's just pointless even arguing/trying to see their pov 'cause they're coming from an entirely different relationship with literature, I dunno.
I'd thought about the 'central theme' thing about a half a year ago from a post by Te the last time, and couldn't come up with anything concrete back then. Even now I think my bit about emotional brutality was a misdirection-- I don't think it's entirely true, do you? Because I can say something like, 'I write about the persistence of memory & desire' and it's true also :D ahahah so much wankery possible with this subject. Though with me, it's always pretty obvious that there's a meta-level with almost everything I write. Like, ever :> Not necessarily clear -what- that meta-level is -there- for, but like... it's definitely there :>
Re: what are your themes (and why)? Here's to hoping this makes any semblance of sense.
Date: 2004-08-15 05:31 am (UTC)I think I've written H/D with almost all the angles I could think of by now, too, it's just that post-OoTP I've been on a rage kick, 'cause really it's hard to write any other type of H/D after the fifth book, y'know. Mmmm, loads of stale Chinese food. Now you have me interested :D :D But no, see, I have this... need to resist H/Z seeing as how it conflicts with H/D in the most basic of ways, in that Zacharias is... y'know... not exactly the person least like Draco in the world. Ahem. But. Not saying anything, nope. Er. Moving on. ^^;; But yeah... it would be nice to like... not write about an impossible relationship. I can definitely see the appeal, ahahahah. *COUGHS* I love the impossible things (am hopeless romantic), but. A rest. Yes, a rest is nice. Also... Harry was always a bit of bastard :D And I do love me some Zacharias-- and he so smokes. He just. Does. Yes. Definitely.
Stubborn. I love stubbornness. I can see why this pairing works for me, see-- it's like-- I think I um. Have a lot of their flaws. Ahem. *issues!!1*
Anyway, hi!!1 Dunno how you found me, but you seem like a really nifty person who writes nifty H/Z I would read... maybe... after a bit more brainwashing perhaps ;))
no subject
Date: 2004-08-14 08:48 am (UTC)Regarding our continuous exploration of certain themes, I think it helps that there are a finite number of themes to explore. I haven't really given much thought to this except in passing in Literature class, but since a theme is universal (and its universality is what makes the story 'immortal', if you will) it's what we, as people and as a race, have explored, continue to explore, and will explore until the last. The question of good versus evil - good will triumph, but how? - is, of course, present in Beowulf, in Sir Gawain, even in The Outsider/The Stranger (though you might need to really squint for that one). I think we just write about the themes we write about because we don't have an answer yet.
That's speaking on a whole. As for themes we personally write about, I really do think people are just trying to find answers to things that cloud their mind. I notice I write a lot about death, specifically how it affects those left behind and what it drives them to do, but that's because the death in OotP really shook me up. A part of it is me looking for reassurance that he'll be okay. Another part of me is asking questions that no one wants to, or can, answer.
We can definitely write about things that aren't questions to us (check out every single essay for school and story for my writing class), that aren't even interesting for the most part. But I think the things that we put most of ourselves into are things we're trying to find an answer, some kind of resolution, for.
By the way, as I aside, how do you deal with flames? I am, essentially, a three-year-old maturity wise. I'd probably quote infuriating places of the Bible back to them. But that's just me :)
no subject
Date: 2004-08-15 05:45 am (UTC)It's definitely true -for me-, regardless-- that approach of writing about things because they shake me up. One of my first (if not the first) finished (original) fic I'd written was a rape-fic, and I wrote that 'cause I was trying to process coming in contact with that subject in real life for the first time. So I just... was trying to make sense of it. But it seems like some people don't touch the things that bother/scare/disturb them, y'know? I dunno. Like... they don't want to know, are afraid of the answer; whatever 'the answer' is. And that basic lack of fear of answers seems so -necessary- to me as a writer and yet I dunno if that's just a -type- of writer-- the type I am, y'know? And yah, it seems like the non-questioning stories are just... not going to be really -gripping- or intensely emotional, but maybe that's not what some readers/writers -want-.
Hah. I don't really deal with flames at all. I just angst for a bit, and hopefully get someone to reassure me that they're stupid & my writing doesn't, in fact, suck :D My R/G flames were sorta wimpy, though :> Self-righteous rage is the one aspect of Harry that's rather far from me :>
no subject
Date: 2004-08-15 11:14 am (UTC)Well, after reading piles of fanfic, I think my standards are pretty low in that a sign of 'good' writing would be a) having used spellcheck and b) getting the characters somewhat IC. But that's just a cop-out answer.
'Good' writing is hard to classify, obviously, since everyone's tastes vary. I think good writing is the ability to communicate, period. And tone, mood, theme, characterisation, all those, if done right, add to the communication. Other people don't feel that way. Transfigurations by Resonant, for example, is one of my all-time favourite fics, not to mention non-published works. But it always gets slammed because people say that the characters are way too OOC. I agree that her version of Draco is a bit hard to swallow (haha, no dirty joke intended), but her characterisation is solid (that is, she never veers from the Draco she intended to write), she really captures the tone and mood of a school that is trying to rebuild, and she explores some pretty good themes (loss, grief, defeat, fear, um... sorting hats.)
And yah, it seems like the non-questioning stories are just... not going to be really -gripping- or intensely emotional, but maybe that's not what some readers/writers -want-.
Well, we can't angst all the time ;) Although I think I do want to draw a line between fluffy fic and comedic fic. Most fluffy fic I call trash (I can't say 'all' because sometimes I just want shmoop, but it's more like comfort food than anything else) but comedic fic can be conflict-ridden and emotional, it's just a light emotion on the other end of the 'oh no Harry's a poor emotionally abused boy that is an outcast from the wizarding world what can he do but turn into a whore?' type thing. Seven Things... by Pru is one of those light but good ones. I just don't see how fluff fits into the equation.
(Just thinking about it, I don't think there are any fluffy published works.)
Harry Potter is more volatile than the other fandoms I was a part of, simply because there's a whole group of fundamentalists that think the book is a book against their deity. I haven't been flamed yet, but then again, I've posted uh, one story. I just think other people's scathing replies are interesting.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-14 08:59 am (UTC)I was wondering why people repeatedly write the things they do-- what are your themes? Are you conscious of having themes? Is there something in particular that obsesses you about the pairing you choose over any other; and if your pairings are many & varied, is there some thread connecting your most common approach to them...?
I've written two OTP's, H/D and Clark/Lex, which have some similar themes. There's a constant and subtle power struggle going on where neither has a clear advantage over the other, because their soul-deep need for the other makes them equally vulnerable. With Smallville (and you can draw your own H/D parallels) we first meet Clark as a 15 year old farmboy, completely naive and virginal, and then comes Lex, the jaded, 22 year old, sexually ambiguous billionaire. The balance of power should overwhelming belong to Lex. Except Clark's a Super-powerful space alien (with an invulnerable, yet exquisitely sensitive ass ;), so that kind of evens things out. But it's Lex's obsession with Clark and Clark's constant coming back for more, even after the "friendship of legend" (Lex's sunset back-dropped declaration) takes on a sorta creepy vibe, that ensures neither of them is ever going to "win" against the other.
I just realized that I like(?) to write about emotional brutality; well, in sexualized terms specifically. I don't know why, but as far as I can tell, it's pretty true. That's a big part of what attracts me about H/D... Instinctually, I wonder how could H/D be any other way, really...
All the fluffy H/D out there is telling me that this isn't what people are looking for: this isn't what they want. They want a spicier, but essentially more traditional romance. Adversarial resentment may be hot to start with, but then you have to get past it: to settle down. Have a 'real' relationship, which means talking about things and liking and respecting the other person, right. Yeah.
The element of emotional brutality in H/D is a big attractor for me. It can be played with to a much greater degree than with the Clex, with its 50 years of comics canon telling us Clark has too strong a moral compass to either submit to or inflict emotional abuse, except under really extreme (most fics that do it successfully are labeled AU) circumstances. Physical abuse, yeah, becaue we've got Kryptonite to play with, but rarely emotional abuse.
I like traditional romances, too. I don't think Harry and Draco could ever have anything close to resembling one, though. That doesn't mean I don't think they couldn't ever have a sort of romance, fucked up though it would undoubtedly be (mmm, obsession).
I never want either of them to be over any it (the rage, the hate, the pettiness, the misunderstanding, the resentment, the competitiveness, the need-- all of it). Ever.
I want to write about the fire. About burning alive. About need. When your whole heart is bursting with need, and you can do nothing about it-- it just festers and poisons you, your inability to really connect with that one person or any person. Or, you can connect, but you can never connect -fully-. Always frustrated. Always alone. Kinda... y'know, existential angst, basically, except with porn and angry teenagers. That's what I dig. Like, on the most visceral level, anyway-- clearly other things are fun to write about too. Just not as... um... brutally 'fun', I guess?
Yes. Harry and Draco are always, *always* going to be at each others throats, clawing and kissing and biting a little too hard. I prefer Hogwarts fic, but if the hate and angry sex don't kill them young and pretty, I do like to think of them cheerfully antagonizing each other in their dottage.
As for themes I find myself writing repeatedly, my epic Clex fic is also rentboy fic. It's the element of non-consent that's always present when you've sold yourself for someone else's use that gets me off on hooker fic. I don't worry about whether people will like what I write, and the most twisted things I've written (embryonic cocksucking comes to mind) have been among the best received. There's definitely an audience for that stuff, though they may not be on Fiction Alley.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-15 05:59 am (UTC)Seeeee... see... some people just -get it- and people don't, like. Yeah. The soul-deep need thing :D :D It's like... that's why I said that about -need- vs. love/hate, y'know... it's not like I'm all about how Harry&Draco -hate- each other-- I'm all about how they -need- each other, which is-- just-- totally different. And. I am attracted to Clex too, though my lack of real interest in Clark made my Smallville reading somewhat of a trickle, mainly. :> Love Lex, though. But then, who could -not- love Lex? And also, omg seeing the show, it's like. Dude. So gay. Just. Yeah.
*sigh* And the no winning... yeah. *uses icon* ...I dig that, obviously. Heheh. I love the constant (eternal? epic? sure, why not!) struggle of opposing 'titans' so to speak. I feel bad saying I'm into emotional abuse 'cause that makes me sound like I'm into hardcore angst or something, and I'm not. I just like things to feel emotionally -strong-, and that can be a joyous thing too. But... that's pretty rare.
I so totally like traditional romances (hahaha if
Oh yes. Obsession.... ahhh, my bulletproof kink.
Heeeee... ohhh, there's not enough old-and-frail-yet-snarky!H/D out there. Man. I just have a soft spot (clearly in my -skull-) for that :D
Also. I mean. I know I've never commented (I am a bad girl who often doesn't comment if the person doesn't know she's reading, ahahah... uh), but. I love it so so so muchly. It's like, one of my top 3 current H/D WIPs, definitely. The sex is hot, the characterizations definitely work for me, and Draco's feisty-yet-needy. <3<3<3<3 YES.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-15 09:15 am (UTC)Harryyou has been distilled to pure, all-encompassing, and slightly mad obsession. I dig that.Smallville is all about the Big Gay Obsession. And how can you not love Clark? Or at least, not want to throw him on his back and f**k the shit out of him? Does not compute. But, yes, Obsession = bulletproof kink. Very much so. That's why I dig Clark/Lionel, even though I think Lionel is physically repulsive. Plus, I just think Clark begs for abuse. :D
And, oh, *blushes* I'm really pleased you like my WiP characterizations, since I think your take on them is pretty spot-on (and
no subject
Date: 2004-08-15 09:40 am (UTC)Let's just say... David Boreanz, for instance? Is my ultimate squick, nearly, ahahah. But I do love Clark as -Clark- to some extent, yeah. If anything, reading
I'm all about the slightly mad obsession, dude. How can obsession -not- be slightly mad, y'know? Heeeee. 'Hate hard-on' = <3<3<3 ahahahah. I know like, in 'real life' hate doesn't equal hard-on, so it's kinda sad that in my mind there are these immediate connections, but. It works with H/D, that's all I can say.
Honestly, you could sell me a lot of things with the set-up you've got in your fic (OMG KINK. ahem.) Like, you just... literally started off with a bang. Man. *happy place* Not that I consciously have a 'thing' for rentboy fic, and I -especially- don't have a thing for feminized Draco (which is a real danger with rentboy!Draco) BUT you managed to have it without that which is great. Mmmm, mind-fucks. Also, dubious-consent-but-yet-still-present. And also slutty-can't-help-himself-but-wants-him-so-bad-even-though-it's-really-fucked-up. Harry -and- Draco. Who could resist?? :D
I know what you mean about the paranoia/flattered feeling. When people rec me that haven't commented, I'm always rather o_0
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Date: 2004-08-15 10:17 am (UTC)I've had hate = hard on in real life, more than once. It's never been an eternal, lasting connection, though. :(
Honestly, you could sell me a lot of things with the set-up you've got in your fic
Yay! Because I'm not sure the ending I first envisioned is the ending that they're now heading towards. I'm trying to keep them on track, but they're all about doing it their way.
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Date: 2004-08-19 12:44 pm (UTC)Hello.
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Date: 2004-08-19 02:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-19 02:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-19 02:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-15 03:33 am (UTC)I don't know why people comment on the new themes they use on their journals. Frankly, I don't give a shit. You want to credit someone? Leave a short note - I'm there to read your journal and your thoughts, not to thank whoever-the-hell on being able to put something together. If I change my theme, I only comment if it's something funny; like recently, I switched to pink and I called myself uber girly cause I thought it was funny. No one actually had to look at the setup to know it was pink; I liked that. Anyway, this has stopped being interesting so let's move onto something else.
There's only the inspiration-- the urge to get it out.
That spoke to me; I cannot stop writing until I've finally got it all out. Ideas fester in me. It's awful - it's an infestation more than anything else. People tell me to take a break; that's all well and good but the ideas keep moving about till I do something about them. However, there are things I won't write - I can't do incest, personally. I've seen some tasteful things done, but I just can't write an entire incestual story. If others do, good for them.
I think people want fluff because they want to know that there is some feeling beneath the hatred. When I write, I try to keep realistic characters (though I'm utterly failing in one story) but they do care about each other, deep down; it's something seen in two lines throughout the story. They usually hate each other, but they are still drawn to one another. For me, it works. I don't much like the oh-my-god-I-love-you-all-of-a-sudden shit; some is well written but is SO obviously OOC. But what can I do? Nothing but stop reading it.
I like having the hate there because I have an obsession with trying to be IC. But hate all the time doesn't work. Hate with something personal like sex...it's fun to read once, maybe twice, but without any feeling? I can't handle it; that's depressing. To me.
Oh, and
By the way, that's funny that they called you brave. Made me laugh.
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Date: 2004-08-15 04:39 am (UTC)I know that people do have personal squicks... (whether incest or writing about puppies being graphically killed), but that's different than something you're morally against & therefore won't write. I won't write Harry/Hermione (unless someone manages to dare me) either, but I don't have moral objections to the pairing.
Yeah I know... I mean... I don't think I write hatesex that much, really, though I do have a reputation for it. It's not really about -hate- to me, so much as intensity-- antagonism. I mean, there's a difference between just hating someone's guts and the sort of feeling that's more conflicted-- more a mix of things. You can hate someone & still be drawn to them at the same time-- y'know, it's like, it doesn't have to be pure. So it's not about there being 'no feeling beneath', I suppose, more... it's just that splash of discomfort remaining long-term. I do realize that hate all the time doesn't work... but it can become more complex with time... without losing its roots entirely. But. Hard to explain, I guess.
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Date: 2004-08-15 04:58 am (UTC)Well, I'm somewhat morally against incest. More than anything, I don't understand it. Seems weird. But eh, if people like that sort of thing, I'm not going to stop them.
I didn't mean that you had to think hate didn't work all the time - that was just my own opinion. I'm kind of wimpy - I don't read a lot of angst, I can't handle character death so well and all similar types of things; every once in a while I try my hand at these things though. Just to prove I can do it. But I'm weird.
No, really - I am.
I admit I don't entirely get what you're saying it (and I've read it through three times now), but I link to the having roots in hatred. I just think that other feelings can grow from it. Not love necessarily, but acceptance. I suspect that people write about the long-term because it is realistic; it's fun to read about a first kiss or first-time sex, but what happens after that? A lot of people like to know. Not me, necessarily, but a lot of people. Or, at least, they ask for sequels a lot.
Anyway, I hope that was a bit clearer - I have a tendency to ramble so I never know if I manage to make my point or not.
Thanks for letting me take part in this discussion.
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Date: 2004-08-15 05:09 am (UTC)Well... I mean... reading/writing a different pairing (whether H/D or Colin/Draco) doesn't have to mean you can't still explore similar/related emotions or circumstances-- depending on the pairing. I write a variety of things (though I still read mostly just H/D 'cause I'm just that obsessed), but I think my style and type of story has a sort of... consistency. Like... You can still tell I wrote it because of how I'd approach whatever issue a particular story has. But it gets subtle. And certainly, some writers have a more defined sense of consistent 'theme' than others, and those themes do change after a while, too.
To me, it's just-- my inspiration to write a story has nothing to do with my moral stand on its subject-matter, that's what I meant. Like, I can see myself writing about... uh... say, bungee-jumping (say), without ever wanting to bungee-jump or liking the idea in the slightest. I can just be fascinated by what draws other people to it, and try to ask questions ('but why does anyone want to?' & 'why would -they- like it?') and try to explain things I don't understand through my writing. So, I'm not saying -I- understand incest either-- but to me, that's a reason to write it.
I'm a wimp too, if that means I avoid suicide/death-fics and things I know from the get-go will be depressing, a lot of times-- but I use my writing to work through my inner demons a lot, and write a lot of things I wouldn't read (or do-- or want to think about if I had a choice), really. But... as I said, people have different reasons for writing stuff.
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Date: 2004-08-16 11:01 pm (UTC)