(the fire & taboos)
Aug. 14th, 2004 04:39 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaI was wondering why people repeatedly write the things they do-- what are your themes? Are you conscious of having themes? Is there something in particular that obsesses you about the pairing you choose over any other; and if your pairings are many & varied, is there some thread connecting your most common approach to them...?
Do people usually write through asking themselves questions, or do they more often just express whatever unlabeled emotional morass squirms inside them? It's a mixture of these things, isn't it. Asking 'what if' and 'why' and 'how'-- that's going to be why we write as much as asking 'what' (as in, 'what do I feel strongly about?')
It's curious to me, the idea that something can be 'too raw' or 'too personal' or 'too taboo' (too anything!) to write about-- because if I don't write about the most personal, emotional things to me, what is there to drive me onwards? What else is there besides whatever inflames one's passion? How can a writer -not- focus on what they're most passionate about?
Similarly, I don't quite see where 'morals' fit into all of this. Like, the ethics of what one actually -does- in the 'real world' as a person-- how should (does?) that really interact with what one deals with in fiction? Not that fiction is 'just fantasy' by any means-- but what is it if not 'no holds barred' in terms of what we approach? How can one have even one taboo subject without threatening the very basis of an artist's integrity?
I started thinking about this 'cause I did get flames on Fiction Alley about my Ron/Ginny fic (which made me laugh, no worries) because it was incest & therefore (morally) 'wrong'. Some people complimented me on being 'brave' enough to write it even though I knew (apparently) that I'd get flamed. Heh. Honestly, the idea of what anyone's going to think never crosses my mind before starting to write. As I edit & after I finish-- sure. But before? There's only the inspiration-- the urge to get it out.
What morality can exist within the artist's impulse? Sure, moral judgement exists within the characters and the society one portrays, as well as within the personality of the author and the eventual reader-- but how would it apply to the impetus itself? Are not the darkest things some of the most fascinating?
Basically, something tells me people aren't necessarily writing for the same reasons, even when it's about one subject. They're taking the same themes, even taking the same two characters and types of characterizations of said characters, and it's still something -different-. That's really what makes or breaks an H/D fic for me, as much as characterization or writing style-- whether the themes underlying the writer's perception of them as a couple match what I'm looking to explore.
I just realized that I like(?) to write about emotional brutality; well, in sexualized terms specifically. I don't know why, but as far as I can tell, it's pretty true. That's a big part of what attracts me about H/D. The way that passion rips you apart and the hope that it'll put you back together. The way that needing another person, that obsession-- the way it can twist you and define you and empower and destroy you at once. Desire the destroyer-- love the revealer; both at once. It has to be both at once.
Instinctually, I wonder how could H/D be any other way, really, but I realize this is a trick of my own perception, which is hard to escape. This is what I see, because it's what I want to see. I ask the question: can it work? How can it work? Tell me the truth. And I feel like the question is somehow the goal in itself, perhaps, moreso than any resolution. There can be no resolution, with violent/adversarial love-- only constant struggle. To take away the conflict in life sometimes seems like an almost destructive act-- as if it's to take away the drive one has to keep living. To keep going.
All the fluffy H/D out there is telling me that this isn't what people are looking for: this isn't what they want. They want a spicier, but essentially more traditional romance. Adversarial resentment may be hot to start with, but then you have to get past it: to settle down. Have a 'real' relationship, which means talking about things and liking and respecting the other person, right. Yeah.
Except... well... I don't care about that, so. Well, I don't. I love friendship-- I've always been obsessed with reading about passionate friendship, so it's not that this is something that doesn't interest me as a story. It's just a question of what I'm interested in personally exploring repeatedly in terms of romance, I think, and that gets to be much more about sexuality and how one deals with intense desire. H/D isn't really about love or hate, to me: those are just words. It's about more basic things-- more raw, elemental, base urges-- things like hunger, need, desire, craving, loneliness, visceral disgust, rage, fear, the need to be protected, the need to be alone, the fight-or-flight response.
Harry and Draco are both very emotionally immature for their age in different ways, and that's why I love them. That's why stories about them post-Hogwarts, when things are different, when they've 'gotten over it' to some degree, just don't touch me-- I don't even instinctively 'get' the appeal. If they're 'over' it, who cares? I never want either of them to be over any it (the rage, the hate, the pettiness, the misunderstanding, the resentment, the competitiveness, the need-- all of it). Ever. I want them to be with their hands around each other's throats, whether literally or metaphorically, at their deathbed. I want them to never stop burning. I want the fire.
I want to write about the fire. About burning alive. About need. When your whole heart is bursting with need, and you can do nothing about it-- it just festers and poisons you, your inability to really connect with that one person or any person. Or, you can connect, but you can never connect -fully-. Always frustrated. Always alone. Kinda... y'know, existential angst, basically, except with porn and angry teenagers. That's what I dig. Like, on the most visceral level, anyway-- clearly other things are fun to write about too. Just not as... um... brutally 'fun', I guess?
~~
Do people usually write through asking themselves questions, or do they more often just express whatever unlabeled emotional morass squirms inside them? It's a mixture of these things, isn't it. Asking 'what if' and 'why' and 'how'-- that's going to be why we write as much as asking 'what' (as in, 'what do I feel strongly about?')
It's curious to me, the idea that something can be 'too raw' or 'too personal' or 'too taboo' (too anything!) to write about-- because if I don't write about the most personal, emotional things to me, what is there to drive me onwards? What else is there besides whatever inflames one's passion? How can a writer -not- focus on what they're most passionate about?
Similarly, I don't quite see where 'morals' fit into all of this. Like, the ethics of what one actually -does- in the 'real world' as a person-- how should (does?) that really interact with what one deals with in fiction? Not that fiction is 'just fantasy' by any means-- but what is it if not 'no holds barred' in terms of what we approach? How can one have even one taboo subject without threatening the very basis of an artist's integrity?
I started thinking about this 'cause I did get flames on Fiction Alley about my Ron/Ginny fic (which made me laugh, no worries) because it was incest & therefore (morally) 'wrong'. Some people complimented me on being 'brave' enough to write it even though I knew (apparently) that I'd get flamed. Heh. Honestly, the idea of what anyone's going to think never crosses my mind before starting to write. As I edit & after I finish-- sure. But before? There's only the inspiration-- the urge to get it out.
What morality can exist within the artist's impulse? Sure, moral judgement exists within the characters and the society one portrays, as well as within the personality of the author and the eventual reader-- but how would it apply to the impetus itself? Are not the darkest things some of the most fascinating?
Basically, something tells me people aren't necessarily writing for the same reasons, even when it's about one subject. They're taking the same themes, even taking the same two characters and types of characterizations of said characters, and it's still something -different-. That's really what makes or breaks an H/D fic for me, as much as characterization or writing style-- whether the themes underlying the writer's perception of them as a couple match what I'm looking to explore.
I just realized that I like(?) to write about emotional brutality; well, in sexualized terms specifically. I don't know why, but as far as I can tell, it's pretty true. That's a big part of what attracts me about H/D. The way that passion rips you apart and the hope that it'll put you back together. The way that needing another person, that obsession-- the way it can twist you and define you and empower and destroy you at once. Desire the destroyer-- love the revealer; both at once. It has to be both at once.
Instinctually, I wonder how could H/D be any other way, really, but I realize this is a trick of my own perception, which is hard to escape. This is what I see, because it's what I want to see. I ask the question: can it work? How can it work? Tell me the truth. And I feel like the question is somehow the goal in itself, perhaps, moreso than any resolution. There can be no resolution, with violent/adversarial love-- only constant struggle. To take away the conflict in life sometimes seems like an almost destructive act-- as if it's to take away the drive one has to keep living. To keep going.
All the fluffy H/D out there is telling me that this isn't what people are looking for: this isn't what they want. They want a spicier, but essentially more traditional romance. Adversarial resentment may be hot to start with, but then you have to get past it: to settle down. Have a 'real' relationship, which means talking about things and liking and respecting the other person, right. Yeah.
Except... well... I don't care about that, so. Well, I don't. I love friendship-- I've always been obsessed with reading about passionate friendship, so it's not that this is something that doesn't interest me as a story. It's just a question of what I'm interested in personally exploring repeatedly in terms of romance, I think, and that gets to be much more about sexuality and how one deals with intense desire. H/D isn't really about love or hate, to me: those are just words. It's about more basic things-- more raw, elemental, base urges-- things like hunger, need, desire, craving, loneliness, visceral disgust, rage, fear, the need to be protected, the need to be alone, the fight-or-flight response.
Harry and Draco are both very emotionally immature for their age in different ways, and that's why I love them. That's why stories about them post-Hogwarts, when things are different, when they've 'gotten over it' to some degree, just don't touch me-- I don't even instinctively 'get' the appeal. If they're 'over' it, who cares? I never want either of them to be over any it (the rage, the hate, the pettiness, the misunderstanding, the resentment, the competitiveness, the need-- all of it). Ever. I want them to be with their hands around each other's throats, whether literally or metaphorically, at their deathbed. I want them to never stop burning. I want the fire.
I want to write about the fire. About burning alive. About need. When your whole heart is bursting with need, and you can do nothing about it-- it just festers and poisons you, your inability to really connect with that one person or any person. Or, you can connect, but you can never connect -fully-. Always frustrated. Always alone. Kinda... y'know, existential angst, basically, except with porn and angry teenagers. That's what I dig. Like, on the most visceral level, anyway-- clearly other things are fun to write about too. Just not as... um... brutally 'fun', I guess?
~~
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no subject
Date: 2004-08-14 08:59 am (UTC)I was wondering why people repeatedly write the things they do-- what are your themes? Are you conscious of having themes? Is there something in particular that obsesses you about the pairing you choose over any other; and if your pairings are many & varied, is there some thread connecting your most common approach to them...?
I've written two OTP's, H/D and Clark/Lex, which have some similar themes. There's a constant and subtle power struggle going on where neither has a clear advantage over the other, because their soul-deep need for the other makes them equally vulnerable. With Smallville (and you can draw your own H/D parallels) we first meet Clark as a 15 year old farmboy, completely naive and virginal, and then comes Lex, the jaded, 22 year old, sexually ambiguous billionaire. The balance of power should overwhelming belong to Lex. Except Clark's a Super-powerful space alien (with an invulnerable, yet exquisitely sensitive ass ;), so that kind of evens things out. But it's Lex's obsession with Clark and Clark's constant coming back for more, even after the "friendship of legend" (Lex's sunset back-dropped declaration) takes on a sorta creepy vibe, that ensures neither of them is ever going to "win" against the other.
I just realized that I like(?) to write about emotional brutality; well, in sexualized terms specifically. I don't know why, but as far as I can tell, it's pretty true. That's a big part of what attracts me about H/D... Instinctually, I wonder how could H/D be any other way, really...
All the fluffy H/D out there is telling me that this isn't what people are looking for: this isn't what they want. They want a spicier, but essentially more traditional romance. Adversarial resentment may be hot to start with, but then you have to get past it: to settle down. Have a 'real' relationship, which means talking about things and liking and respecting the other person, right. Yeah.
The element of emotional brutality in H/D is a big attractor for me. It can be played with to a much greater degree than with the Clex, with its 50 years of comics canon telling us Clark has too strong a moral compass to either submit to or inflict emotional abuse, except under really extreme (most fics that do it successfully are labeled AU) circumstances. Physical abuse, yeah, becaue we've got Kryptonite to play with, but rarely emotional abuse.
I like traditional romances, too. I don't think Harry and Draco could ever have anything close to resembling one, though. That doesn't mean I don't think they couldn't ever have a sort of romance, fucked up though it would undoubtedly be (mmm, obsession).
I never want either of them to be over any it (the rage, the hate, the pettiness, the misunderstanding, the resentment, the competitiveness, the need-- all of it). Ever.
I want to write about the fire. About burning alive. About need. When your whole heart is bursting with need, and you can do nothing about it-- it just festers and poisons you, your inability to really connect with that one person or any person. Or, you can connect, but you can never connect -fully-. Always frustrated. Always alone. Kinda... y'know, existential angst, basically, except with porn and angry teenagers. That's what I dig. Like, on the most visceral level, anyway-- clearly other things are fun to write about too. Just not as... um... brutally 'fun', I guess?
Yes. Harry and Draco are always, *always* going to be at each others throats, clawing and kissing and biting a little too hard. I prefer Hogwarts fic, but if the hate and angry sex don't kill them young and pretty, I do like to think of them cheerfully antagonizing each other in their dottage.
As for themes I find myself writing repeatedly, my epic Clex fic is also rentboy fic. It's the element of non-consent that's always present when you've sold yourself for someone else's use that gets me off on hooker fic. I don't worry about whether people will like what I write, and the most twisted things I've written (embryonic cocksucking comes to mind) have been among the best received. There's definitely an audience for that stuff, though they may not be on Fiction Alley.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-15 05:59 am (UTC)Seeeee... see... some people just -get it- and people don't, like. Yeah. The soul-deep need thing :D :D It's like... that's why I said that about -need- vs. love/hate, y'know... it's not like I'm all about how Harry&Draco -hate- each other-- I'm all about how they -need- each other, which is-- just-- totally different. And. I am attracted to Clex too, though my lack of real interest in Clark made my Smallville reading somewhat of a trickle, mainly. :> Love Lex, though. But then, who could -not- love Lex? And also, omg seeing the show, it's like. Dude. So gay. Just. Yeah.
*sigh* And the no winning... yeah. *uses icon* ...I dig that, obviously. Heheh. I love the constant (eternal? epic? sure, why not!) struggle of opposing 'titans' so to speak. I feel bad saying I'm into emotional abuse 'cause that makes me sound like I'm into hardcore angst or something, and I'm not. I just like things to feel emotionally -strong-, and that can be a joyous thing too. But... that's pretty rare.
I so totally like traditional romances (hahaha if
Oh yes. Obsession.... ahhh, my bulletproof kink.
Heeeee... ohhh, there's not enough old-and-frail-yet-snarky!H/D out there. Man. I just have a soft spot (clearly in my -skull-) for that :D
Also. I mean. I know I've never commented (I am a bad girl who often doesn't comment if the person doesn't know she's reading, ahahah... uh), but. I love it so so so muchly. It's like, one of my top 3 current H/D WIPs, definitely. The sex is hot, the characterizations definitely work for me, and Draco's feisty-yet-needy. <3<3<3<3 YES.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-15 09:15 am (UTC)Harryyou has been distilled to pure, all-encompassing, and slightly mad obsession. I dig that.Smallville is all about the Big Gay Obsession. And how can you not love Clark? Or at least, not want to throw him on his back and f**k the shit out of him? Does not compute. But, yes, Obsession = bulletproof kink. Very much so. That's why I dig Clark/Lionel, even though I think Lionel is physically repulsive. Plus, I just think Clark begs for abuse. :D
And, oh, *blushes* I'm really pleased you like my WiP characterizations, since I think your take on them is pretty spot-on (and
no subject
Date: 2004-08-15 09:40 am (UTC)Let's just say... David Boreanz, for instance? Is my ultimate squick, nearly, ahahah. But I do love Clark as -Clark- to some extent, yeah. If anything, reading
I'm all about the slightly mad obsession, dude. How can obsession -not- be slightly mad, y'know? Heeeee. 'Hate hard-on' = <3<3<3 ahahahah. I know like, in 'real life' hate doesn't equal hard-on, so it's kinda sad that in my mind there are these immediate connections, but. It works with H/D, that's all I can say.
Honestly, you could sell me a lot of things with the set-up you've got in your fic (OMG KINK. ahem.) Like, you just... literally started off with a bang. Man. *happy place* Not that I consciously have a 'thing' for rentboy fic, and I -especially- don't have a thing for feminized Draco (which is a real danger with rentboy!Draco) BUT you managed to have it without that which is great. Mmmm, mind-fucks. Also, dubious-consent-but-yet-still-present. And also slutty-can't-help-himself-but-wants-him-so-bad-even-though-it's-really-fucked-up. Harry -and- Draco. Who could resist?? :D
I know what you mean about the paranoia/flattered feeling. When people rec me that haven't commented, I'm always rather o_0
no subject
Date: 2004-08-15 10:17 am (UTC)I've had hate = hard on in real life, more than once. It's never been an eternal, lasting connection, though. :(
Honestly, you could sell me a lot of things with the set-up you've got in your fic
Yay! Because I'm not sure the ending I first envisioned is the ending that they're now heading towards. I'm trying to keep them on track, but they're all about doing it their way.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-19 12:44 pm (UTC)Hello.
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Date: 2004-08-19 02:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-19 02:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-19 02:45 pm (UTC)