(the fire & taboos)
Aug. 14th, 2004 04:39 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaI was wondering why people repeatedly write the things they do-- what are your themes? Are you conscious of having themes? Is there something in particular that obsesses you about the pairing you choose over any other; and if your pairings are many & varied, is there some thread connecting your most common approach to them...?
Do people usually write through asking themselves questions, or do they more often just express whatever unlabeled emotional morass squirms inside them? It's a mixture of these things, isn't it. Asking 'what if' and 'why' and 'how'-- that's going to be why we write as much as asking 'what' (as in, 'what do I feel strongly about?')
It's curious to me, the idea that something can be 'too raw' or 'too personal' or 'too taboo' (too anything!) to write about-- because if I don't write about the most personal, emotional things to me, what is there to drive me onwards? What else is there besides whatever inflames one's passion? How can a writer -not- focus on what they're most passionate about?
Similarly, I don't quite see where 'morals' fit into all of this. Like, the ethics of what one actually -does- in the 'real world' as a person-- how should (does?) that really interact with what one deals with in fiction? Not that fiction is 'just fantasy' by any means-- but what is it if not 'no holds barred' in terms of what we approach? How can one have even one taboo subject without threatening the very basis of an artist's integrity?
I started thinking about this 'cause I did get flames on Fiction Alley about my Ron/Ginny fic (which made me laugh, no worries) because it was incest & therefore (morally) 'wrong'. Some people complimented me on being 'brave' enough to write it even though I knew (apparently) that I'd get flamed. Heh. Honestly, the idea of what anyone's going to think never crosses my mind before starting to write. As I edit & after I finish-- sure. But before? There's only the inspiration-- the urge to get it out.
What morality can exist within the artist's impulse? Sure, moral judgement exists within the characters and the society one portrays, as well as within the personality of the author and the eventual reader-- but how would it apply to the impetus itself? Are not the darkest things some of the most fascinating?
Basically, something tells me people aren't necessarily writing for the same reasons, even when it's about one subject. They're taking the same themes, even taking the same two characters and types of characterizations of said characters, and it's still something -different-. That's really what makes or breaks an H/D fic for me, as much as characterization or writing style-- whether the themes underlying the writer's perception of them as a couple match what I'm looking to explore.
I just realized that I like(?) to write about emotional brutality; well, in sexualized terms specifically. I don't know why, but as far as I can tell, it's pretty true. That's a big part of what attracts me about H/D. The way that passion rips you apart and the hope that it'll put you back together. The way that needing another person, that obsession-- the way it can twist you and define you and empower and destroy you at once. Desire the destroyer-- love the revealer; both at once. It has to be both at once.
Instinctually, I wonder how could H/D be any other way, really, but I realize this is a trick of my own perception, which is hard to escape. This is what I see, because it's what I want to see. I ask the question: can it work? How can it work? Tell me the truth. And I feel like the question is somehow the goal in itself, perhaps, moreso than any resolution. There can be no resolution, with violent/adversarial love-- only constant struggle. To take away the conflict in life sometimes seems like an almost destructive act-- as if it's to take away the drive one has to keep living. To keep going.
All the fluffy H/D out there is telling me that this isn't what people are looking for: this isn't what they want. They want a spicier, but essentially more traditional romance. Adversarial resentment may be hot to start with, but then you have to get past it: to settle down. Have a 'real' relationship, which means talking about things and liking and respecting the other person, right. Yeah.
Except... well... I don't care about that, so. Well, I don't. I love friendship-- I've always been obsessed with reading about passionate friendship, so it's not that this is something that doesn't interest me as a story. It's just a question of what I'm interested in personally exploring repeatedly in terms of romance, I think, and that gets to be much more about sexuality and how one deals with intense desire. H/D isn't really about love or hate, to me: those are just words. It's about more basic things-- more raw, elemental, base urges-- things like hunger, need, desire, craving, loneliness, visceral disgust, rage, fear, the need to be protected, the need to be alone, the fight-or-flight response.
Harry and Draco are both very emotionally immature for their age in different ways, and that's why I love them. That's why stories about them post-Hogwarts, when things are different, when they've 'gotten over it' to some degree, just don't touch me-- I don't even instinctively 'get' the appeal. If they're 'over' it, who cares? I never want either of them to be over any it (the rage, the hate, the pettiness, the misunderstanding, the resentment, the competitiveness, the need-- all of it). Ever. I want them to be with their hands around each other's throats, whether literally or metaphorically, at their deathbed. I want them to never stop burning. I want the fire.
I want to write about the fire. About burning alive. About need. When your whole heart is bursting with need, and you can do nothing about it-- it just festers and poisons you, your inability to really connect with that one person or any person. Or, you can connect, but you can never connect -fully-. Always frustrated. Always alone. Kinda... y'know, existential angst, basically, except with porn and angry teenagers. That's what I dig. Like, on the most visceral level, anyway-- clearly other things are fun to write about too. Just not as... um... brutally 'fun', I guess?
~~
Do people usually write through asking themselves questions, or do they more often just express whatever unlabeled emotional morass squirms inside them? It's a mixture of these things, isn't it. Asking 'what if' and 'why' and 'how'-- that's going to be why we write as much as asking 'what' (as in, 'what do I feel strongly about?')
It's curious to me, the idea that something can be 'too raw' or 'too personal' or 'too taboo' (too anything!) to write about-- because if I don't write about the most personal, emotional things to me, what is there to drive me onwards? What else is there besides whatever inflames one's passion? How can a writer -not- focus on what they're most passionate about?
Similarly, I don't quite see where 'morals' fit into all of this. Like, the ethics of what one actually -does- in the 'real world' as a person-- how should (does?) that really interact with what one deals with in fiction? Not that fiction is 'just fantasy' by any means-- but what is it if not 'no holds barred' in terms of what we approach? How can one have even one taboo subject without threatening the very basis of an artist's integrity?
I started thinking about this 'cause I did get flames on Fiction Alley about my Ron/Ginny fic (which made me laugh, no worries) because it was incest & therefore (morally) 'wrong'. Some people complimented me on being 'brave' enough to write it even though I knew (apparently) that I'd get flamed. Heh. Honestly, the idea of what anyone's going to think never crosses my mind before starting to write. As I edit & after I finish-- sure. But before? There's only the inspiration-- the urge to get it out.
What morality can exist within the artist's impulse? Sure, moral judgement exists within the characters and the society one portrays, as well as within the personality of the author and the eventual reader-- but how would it apply to the impetus itself? Are not the darkest things some of the most fascinating?
Basically, something tells me people aren't necessarily writing for the same reasons, even when it's about one subject. They're taking the same themes, even taking the same two characters and types of characterizations of said characters, and it's still something -different-. That's really what makes or breaks an H/D fic for me, as much as characterization or writing style-- whether the themes underlying the writer's perception of them as a couple match what I'm looking to explore.
I just realized that I like(?) to write about emotional brutality; well, in sexualized terms specifically. I don't know why, but as far as I can tell, it's pretty true. That's a big part of what attracts me about H/D. The way that passion rips you apart and the hope that it'll put you back together. The way that needing another person, that obsession-- the way it can twist you and define you and empower and destroy you at once. Desire the destroyer-- love the revealer; both at once. It has to be both at once.
Instinctually, I wonder how could H/D be any other way, really, but I realize this is a trick of my own perception, which is hard to escape. This is what I see, because it's what I want to see. I ask the question: can it work? How can it work? Tell me the truth. And I feel like the question is somehow the goal in itself, perhaps, moreso than any resolution. There can be no resolution, with violent/adversarial love-- only constant struggle. To take away the conflict in life sometimes seems like an almost destructive act-- as if it's to take away the drive one has to keep living. To keep going.
All the fluffy H/D out there is telling me that this isn't what people are looking for: this isn't what they want. They want a spicier, but essentially more traditional romance. Adversarial resentment may be hot to start with, but then you have to get past it: to settle down. Have a 'real' relationship, which means talking about things and liking and respecting the other person, right. Yeah.
Except... well... I don't care about that, so. Well, I don't. I love friendship-- I've always been obsessed with reading about passionate friendship, so it's not that this is something that doesn't interest me as a story. It's just a question of what I'm interested in personally exploring repeatedly in terms of romance, I think, and that gets to be much more about sexuality and how one deals with intense desire. H/D isn't really about love or hate, to me: those are just words. It's about more basic things-- more raw, elemental, base urges-- things like hunger, need, desire, craving, loneliness, visceral disgust, rage, fear, the need to be protected, the need to be alone, the fight-or-flight response.
Harry and Draco are both very emotionally immature for their age in different ways, and that's why I love them. That's why stories about them post-Hogwarts, when things are different, when they've 'gotten over it' to some degree, just don't touch me-- I don't even instinctively 'get' the appeal. If they're 'over' it, who cares? I never want either of them to be over any it (the rage, the hate, the pettiness, the misunderstanding, the resentment, the competitiveness, the need-- all of it). Ever. I want them to be with their hands around each other's throats, whether literally or metaphorically, at their deathbed. I want them to never stop burning. I want the fire.
I want to write about the fire. About burning alive. About need. When your whole heart is bursting with need, and you can do nothing about it-- it just festers and poisons you, your inability to really connect with that one person or any person. Or, you can connect, but you can never connect -fully-. Always frustrated. Always alone. Kinda... y'know, existential angst, basically, except with porn and angry teenagers. That's what I dig. Like, on the most visceral level, anyway-- clearly other things are fun to write about too. Just not as... um... brutally 'fun', I guess?
~~
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no subject
Date: 2004-08-15 04:58 am (UTC)Well, I'm somewhat morally against incest. More than anything, I don't understand it. Seems weird. But eh, if people like that sort of thing, I'm not going to stop them.
I didn't mean that you had to think hate didn't work all the time - that was just my own opinion. I'm kind of wimpy - I don't read a lot of angst, I can't handle character death so well and all similar types of things; every once in a while I try my hand at these things though. Just to prove I can do it. But I'm weird.
No, really - I am.
I admit I don't entirely get what you're saying it (and I've read it through three times now), but I link to the having roots in hatred. I just think that other feelings can grow from it. Not love necessarily, but acceptance. I suspect that people write about the long-term because it is realistic; it's fun to read about a first kiss or first-time sex, but what happens after that? A lot of people like to know. Not me, necessarily, but a lot of people. Or, at least, they ask for sequels a lot.
Anyway, I hope that was a bit clearer - I have a tendency to ramble so I never know if I manage to make my point or not.
Thanks for letting me take part in this discussion.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-15 05:09 am (UTC)Well... I mean... reading/writing a different pairing (whether H/D or Colin/Draco) doesn't have to mean you can't still explore similar/related emotions or circumstances-- depending on the pairing. I write a variety of things (though I still read mostly just H/D 'cause I'm just that obsessed), but I think my style and type of story has a sort of... consistency. Like... You can still tell I wrote it because of how I'd approach whatever issue a particular story has. But it gets subtle. And certainly, some writers have a more defined sense of consistent 'theme' than others, and those themes do change after a while, too.
To me, it's just-- my inspiration to write a story has nothing to do with my moral stand on its subject-matter, that's what I meant. Like, I can see myself writing about... uh... say, bungee-jumping (say), without ever wanting to bungee-jump or liking the idea in the slightest. I can just be fascinated by what draws other people to it, and try to ask questions ('but why does anyone want to?' & 'why would -they- like it?') and try to explain things I don't understand through my writing. So, I'm not saying -I- understand incest either-- but to me, that's a reason to write it.
I'm a wimp too, if that means I avoid suicide/death-fics and things I know from the get-go will be depressing, a lot of times-- but I use my writing to work through my inner demons a lot, and write a lot of things I wouldn't read (or do-- or want to think about if I had a choice), really. But... as I said, people have different reasons for writing stuff.