~~ the dark Father.
Jul. 14th, 2004 11:04 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaEveryone knows that I hate Lucius Malfoy, right? Well, I thought I did. And then I saw ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
jereeza's watercolor version of him and... *siiiiigh* Yes. Finally! Finally! Gah. I don't know where to begin. The short hair helps a lot, but it's really the expression-- this man is beautiful because he isn't pretty. Oh, how happy that makes me.
Ahhh, the Trelawney portrait is also vivid like that to me, mmmmyes.
It's funny, because I'm actually obsessed with physical beauty, and you'd be hard-pressed to find someone much more fixated on the pleasure to be found in the appearances of things. So I understand where the need to draw everything pretty comes from-- I draw everything as pretty as I can, myself, though I try not to. I just think that illustrating a character is something to take seriously in terms of the depiction of their personality as much as the technical aspect. Every picture is worth a thousand words, they say. Well, it -is-.
I think it's just that in my mind, Lucius is "The Terrible Father" archetype, and this almost Victorian-looking portrait really reminds me of that aesthetic. I don't mean 'terrible' as in ghastly, I mean as in formidable-- a towering force. To me, a parent like that is the stuff of childish nightmares, since I was something of a sensitive child, I think, and naturally exaggerated my own parents' terribleness. Even my rather loving mother became larger than life-- had a definite fearsome aspect. I can only imagine what it's like when your father -is- actually scary.
The painting reminds me of my childhood nightmares, I think, and of the fairy-tales I'd read where you had The Dark Father who punished the curious, adventurous child. You didn't really -know- The Father-- he was a huge, looming shadow and a vague memory of being bounced upon his knee next to a sunlit window when you were much younger. You looked up at him from your scrawny height and thought he was something other than human-- his severe, patrician features and his coldly set mouth and his stare that could pierce you through the heart and spread ice right down to your toes.
I think it's just that-- for me-- Lucius is very much a children's book character. He is most fascinating at his most inhuman, when one looks at him through Draco's terrified-yet-enthralled pov. He's quite a contrast to Mr. Dursley, who so many fic writers use as a simple plot device to terrorize Harry-- it seems to me that Mr. Dursley was easily overcome, especially by Harry. He's the one a child could trick because I'm pretty sure even at 7 years old Harry had more wits and spirit about him than Vernon Dursley knew how to deal with. So it's more than a bit ridiculous to have so many fics where he physically abuses Harry and Harry just -takes- it. If nothing else, I think Harry's magic would've flared if he was that terrified or angry.
Anyway, perhaps it's just that more people have parents like the Dursleys than like the Malfoys, so they write what's more familiar and easily understood or something. I have to admit, my own fantasies and fears ran more towards the Malfoy end of the spectrum: my parents were both indulgent and distant in different ways, and they were both rather powerful in my mind.
Looking atjereeza's Lucius from an adult pov, I just see a wretched, miserly man who's trapped in his own machinations-- a man who wears a veneer of disdain to cover up an inability to take any real joy in -anything-. I think what most people forget is that Lucius Malfoy is meant to be ugly. And I don't mean physically-- I mean this man's spirit is truly ugly. This isn't so much about bitterness (borne of anger & despair), even, as with Snape: I think this man is consumed with all-out hatred (borne of fear).
I don't mean to use 'ugliness' (or monstrousness) as a way to dehumanize him, really. Plenty of humans are like this-- they shrivelled up inside as they became ever more consumed with power as a means in itself. The more one craves control over others (especially those who cannot fight back as one's equals-- say, oh, Muggles), the more one tries to distance oneself from one's vulnerabilities. One cannot be controlling or cold without losing touch with one's inner child to the point where one forgets what it felt like in the first place. All one remembers is powerlessness, now replaced with power.
My bias is, of course, that I've always associated the need for control (over others) with moral degeneration. It's basically at the root of all degeneration of one's capacity for compassion (i.e., humanity) in general as far as I can tell. My idea of Lucius is almost completely centered around his use of those weaker than himself to gain power; therefore Lucius is rather antithetical to me.
I've always had this underlying horror of Harry/Lucius as a pairing partly because it makes me think of the sacrificial lamb. Harry is so needful of a good Father in his life, and Lucius is just the complete opposite. And I think Harry could 'take' him if you mean in a fight, but the idea of any sort of cohabitation makes me think of a pale, miserable 11-year old being shipped off to the awful dark Mansion in a long black limo, his wet face pressed to the car window as he's being driven away.
I think in the end, I myself am too much of a child, still, to tolerate the idea that this child could grow up and not escape. Growing up has to be about escape. This is what we're escaping! This man and everything he stands for. This is precisely the kind of adult that's the enemy of every child with any shred of creativity or imagination, I think. He mesmerizes me and repulses me and inspires me to write to exorcise that demon.
This picture keeps making me think of the kind of Mansion this portrait would fit on the wall of. It reminds me of Penelope's `Carnivorous House'. Wah.
jereeza's watercolor version of him and... *siiiiigh* Yes. Finally! Finally! Gah. I don't know where to begin. The short hair helps a lot, but it's really the expression-- this man is beautiful because he isn't pretty. Oh, how happy that makes me. Ahhh, the Trelawney portrait is also vivid like that to me, mmmmyes.
It's funny, because I'm actually obsessed with physical beauty, and you'd be hard-pressed to find someone much more fixated on the pleasure to be found in the appearances of things. So I understand where the need to draw everything pretty comes from-- I draw everything as pretty as I can, myself, though I try not to. I just think that illustrating a character is something to take seriously in terms of the depiction of their personality as much as the technical aspect. Every picture is worth a thousand words, they say. Well, it -is-.
I think it's just that in my mind, Lucius is "The Terrible Father" archetype, and this almost Victorian-looking portrait really reminds me of that aesthetic. I don't mean 'terrible' as in ghastly, I mean as in formidable-- a towering force. To me, a parent like that is the stuff of childish nightmares, since I was something of a sensitive child, I think, and naturally exaggerated my own parents' terribleness. Even my rather loving mother became larger than life-- had a definite fearsome aspect. I can only imagine what it's like when your father -is- actually scary.
The painting reminds me of my childhood nightmares, I think, and of the fairy-tales I'd read where you had The Dark Father who punished the curious, adventurous child. You didn't really -know- The Father-- he was a huge, looming shadow and a vague memory of being bounced upon his knee next to a sunlit window when you were much younger. You looked up at him from your scrawny height and thought he was something other than human-- his severe, patrician features and his coldly set mouth and his stare that could pierce you through the heart and spread ice right down to your toes.
I think it's just that-- for me-- Lucius is very much a children's book character. He is most fascinating at his most inhuman, when one looks at him through Draco's terrified-yet-enthralled pov. He's quite a contrast to Mr. Dursley, who so many fic writers use as a simple plot device to terrorize Harry-- it seems to me that Mr. Dursley was easily overcome, especially by Harry. He's the one a child could trick because I'm pretty sure even at 7 years old Harry had more wits and spirit about him than Vernon Dursley knew how to deal with. So it's more than a bit ridiculous to have so many fics where he physically abuses Harry and Harry just -takes- it. If nothing else, I think Harry's magic would've flared if he was that terrified or angry.
Anyway, perhaps it's just that more people have parents like the Dursleys than like the Malfoys, so they write what's more familiar and easily understood or something. I have to admit, my own fantasies and fears ran more towards the Malfoy end of the spectrum: my parents were both indulgent and distant in different ways, and they were both rather powerful in my mind.
Looking at
jereeza's Lucius from an adult pov, I just see a wretched, miserly man who's trapped in his own machinations-- a man who wears a veneer of disdain to cover up an inability to take any real joy in -anything-. I think what most people forget is that Lucius Malfoy is meant to be ugly. And I don't mean physically-- I mean this man's spirit is truly ugly. This isn't so much about bitterness (borne of anger & despair), even, as with Snape: I think this man is consumed with all-out hatred (borne of fear).I don't mean to use 'ugliness' (or monstrousness) as a way to dehumanize him, really. Plenty of humans are like this-- they shrivelled up inside as they became ever more consumed with power as a means in itself. The more one craves control over others (especially those who cannot fight back as one's equals-- say, oh, Muggles), the more one tries to distance oneself from one's vulnerabilities. One cannot be controlling or cold without losing touch with one's inner child to the point where one forgets what it felt like in the first place. All one remembers is powerlessness, now replaced with power.
My bias is, of course, that I've always associated the need for control (over others) with moral degeneration. It's basically at the root of all degeneration of one's capacity for compassion (i.e., humanity) in general as far as I can tell. My idea of Lucius is almost completely centered around his use of those weaker than himself to gain power; therefore Lucius is rather antithetical to me.
I've always had this underlying horror of Harry/Lucius as a pairing partly because it makes me think of the sacrificial lamb. Harry is so needful of a good Father in his life, and Lucius is just the complete opposite. And I think Harry could 'take' him if you mean in a fight, but the idea of any sort of cohabitation makes me think of a pale, miserable 11-year old being shipped off to the awful dark Mansion in a long black limo, his wet face pressed to the car window as he's being driven away.
I think in the end, I myself am too much of a child, still, to tolerate the idea that this child could grow up and not escape. Growing up has to be about escape. This is what we're escaping! This man and everything he stands for. This is precisely the kind of adult that's the enemy of every child with any shred of creativity or imagination, I think. He mesmerizes me and repulses me and inspires me to write to exorcise that demon.
This picture keeps making me think of the kind of Mansion this portrait would fit on the wall of. It reminds me of Penelope's `Carnivorous House'. Wah.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2004-07-15 07:33 am (UTC)Some of the flag-waving Slytherin-sympathizing-types have this persecution complex going, where the Big Bad Gryffindors have taken away their rights. The thing that's kind of funny is that they'd take away the Gryffindors' rights in a heartbeat-- it's just that the Gryffs would react differently. They wouldn't complain or become bitter or depressed or disenfranchised-- they'd fight. Harry would fight (though he'd mope too). And not in the picking-at-the-heels way Draco seems to-- Gryffindors wage full frontal battle....
Oh totally--they DO do that in OotP. That's part of why I don't get when people describe Umbridge's Hogwarts as this 1984 situation. Her Hogwarts is complete chaos because no one listens to her. She's a totally unsuccessful dictator. Personally, I don't do the full frontal battlell--when Harry's challenging Umbridge in class I'm all, "What are you doing?" And in OotP the twins' big exit, that everyone thinks is so fabulous, to me is stupid and self-destructive. But that's me. I just don't fight like that. But that doesn't mean that's always the wrong way to fight.
I also think it's hard to know just how Slytherins see things. Many Slyth fans are resentful and feel nothing is fair, and I'm sure there are times when the Slytherins feel that way. Draco certainly expresses that more than once-but then, so does Harry and Ron. What I like about the Slyths in canon is that they don't, to me, seem bitter or depressed or disenfranchised. (Malfoy can be bitter, but then so can everybody at times.) In canon they're often shown cackling and smirking and enjoying the show when things go badly for Harry. I guess this is why I get so frustrated they're so marginalized by the author, because I think people like the Slyths fit right into a world with Gryffs. They're the ones who are the counselors rather than the knights or the princes. They work from behind the scenes. That's what they do in every book and that's good too! It's not better than the roles the Gryffs have, it's just different. So, just as you said, it's not that they wouldn't take power from the Gryffs the same way the Gryffs would take power from them. And it's not like if the Gryffs disappeared everything would be great. The Slyths just make for an interesting contrast to the Gryffs. They aren't really leaders, they're powers behind the throne.
And then I just want to agree with everything you said about Draco/Lucius. I feel like that's practically what we see on the page-Harry's childhood, as bad as it was, has obviously made him stronger while Draco's made him lost. At the same time, though, I guess I feel it would be interesting to see how Draco would survive. He's not strong like Harry so it wouldn't be the same way, but I find people like Peter fascinating too. Peter doesn't stand on his own, but he's a wonderfully adept rat fleeing the sinking ship. I feel like Draco already embodies Phineas' line about Slytherins--they're brave, but they always choose to save themselves.
gippy gip
Date: 2004-07-15 07:53 am (UTC)Ooh, I love Peter. Favourite Marauder, hands down. And that's pretty much why, in one sentence.
Peter's a survivor.
Sirius, Remus and James can represent Gryffindor, from it's extremes of good (bravery and loyalty - James dying for Harry, Sirius protecting Harry) to the extremes of bad (arrogance, aggression; nicely summed up in the pensieve scene) and live life in a drama of 'righteous' fury and anger; but look where it gets them - two are dead, one a outcast cripple.
And there's cowardly old Peter, who keeps on going!
I don't know, it probably doesn't say much more my morals, but there's something admirable there...
Re: gippy gip
Date: 2004-07-15 10:02 am (UTC)I mean, my favorite Musketeer? Aramis, hands down. The one who lives--not because he's the best fighter but because he's the smart one who keeps his cards close to his chest and is flexible.:-)
Re: gippy gip
Date: 2004-07-15 10:10 am (UTC)JKR doesn't seem to prize intelligence, as a quality. I mean, look at Harry... *ducks from the multitude of Harry fans angrily converging*
But there are some 'alternative' ways of viewing Peter's choices which are fairly interesting (and plausible?...)
http://www.livejournal.com/users/pauraque/118331.html
http://www.skyehawke.com/archive/story.php?no=1882
I mean, my favorite Musketeer? Aramis, hands down. The one who lives--not because he's the best fighter but because he's the smart one who keeps his cards close to his chest and is flexible.:-)
Heh, my experience of the Musketeers stretches only to the Leonardo DiCaprio film, and the cartoon in which they were all dogs (and there was Dogtanian, which made me and my sister laugh like the little nerds we are ;)
Aramis was the priest who was playing both sides, though, yeah? ;)
Re: gippy gip
Date: 2004-07-15 06:23 pm (UTC)Re: gippy gip
Date: 2004-07-16 02:30 am (UTC)Re: gippy gip
Date: 2004-07-15 02:36 pm (UTC)I don't mind people who only care about themselves if they're honest about it on a base level, and I like Aramis-- the difference between Aramis & Peter, though, is that Aramis would never betray his friends. He was a Musketeer above all, when it counted, just like any of the rest of them. In a way, the four Musketeers represent a sort of mini House system of complementary values-- with Athos the Ravenclaw and D'Artagnan the Gryffindor and Porthos the Hufflepuff. I suppose that makes Aramis the very laid back Slytherin, though I don't think the label really fits. Hmm.
The one I identified with was D'Artagnan. The one I'd fall in love with was Athos, hands down. Ahhhhhhh ATHOS <33333333333333333333333
no subject
Date: 2004-07-15 02:38 pm (UTC)Re: gippy gip
Date: 2004-07-15 06:33 pm (UTC)Hee. Athos was cool! And D'Artagnan was such a loveable goof in the beginning.
no subject
Date: 2004-07-15 08:56 pm (UTC)My guess is that there's nothing attractive about Peter as a character in so far as-- he has no real talent or 'spark' about him, plus we don't really -know- him the way we know Sirius or Remus or Snape. Y'know? There's that... need for actual presence again~:)
Re: gippy gip
Date: 2004-07-18 09:18 am (UTC)The one I identified with was the Iron Mask! Or whatever it was called.
Re: gippy gip
Date: 2004-07-18 07:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-15 02:28 pm (UTC)And I don't have any particular theoretical preference for the 'Gryffindor Way', but you just don't see it around much in H/D parts, y'know-- it's all the R/Hr & H/G people with that mentality or whatever. I feel lonely :>
Heheheh I must be like one of the only HuffleGryff Slytherin sympathizers in existence. ^^; Or maybe I'm not a sympathizer, I dunno. As far as my way of fighting-- I just don't fight, period. I'm very passive, most of the time. When you'd force me to fight, I'm likely to either resistresistresist and finally snap and do something extreme. Hehehe I'm a weird hybrid :> But... well, I'm a fantasy reader :D I think battle and smartass hero-rogues who flip The Authority the bird & then get the hell out are... cool :> :> But then, I like Spiderman. Like, a lot ^^;;;
Anyway, I think this is the only scenario (full-out fighting) that I can see in a YA fantasy adventure novel, man. It would seem weird and wrong if anything else happened.
But anyway, I was definitely saying it's a number of fans with the persecution complex, not the Slytherins themselves. I think most people are a bit off base when they strongly identify with being Slytherin :> My beef is with the people I see, not any fictional people. Though I must admit I don't actually -like- the canon Slytherins, I don't have issues with -them-, just their philosophy. Bleargh. And this mostly applies to the dumber ones, though. I mean, I'm no JKR in that I don't resent & stereotype people years later, but I knew Slytherin type bullies too and they'd pick on me more than any Gryffindor-type bullies would 'cause Slytherins pick on the shy, weak-seeming ones while the Gryffindor jocks wouldn't exactly go around harassing geeks whom they'd hardly notice :/
So yeah, I prefer people who have some sense of honor or something. And also not manipulative. Bleh. Personal preference in as far as association-- though while I wouldn't be friends with them, I might fall in love with them, 'cause that conflict translates into romantic tension easily enough in my head ^^; Um, off track again. Heh.
I totally think Gryffs and Slyths fit into the same groove-- that's why I ship their Houses in an archetypal way, of course. They're two sides of the same coin. I just don't like the fannish practice of bringing down Gryffindor mentality to celebrate Slytherin-- because they're so united. It's silly to me.
I don't know if they're the counselors. Well, there are all sorts of counselors, but Ravenclaws and Hufflepuffs are also 'counselors'. I think Slytherins are more... in some administrative position of counsel that gives them room to maneuver without consulting anyone. But yes, behind the scenes-- though I think of them as 'the right hand man' sort of deal. *dons shippy hat*
Hmmm. Draco as fleeing rat. I can see that. Though I must say, Peter's 'survival' isn't any sort of life I'd want for Draco :>
no subject
Date: 2004-07-15 06:43 pm (UTC)I knew Slytherin type bullies too and they'd pick on me more than any Gryffindor-type bullies would 'cause Slytherins pick on the shy, weak-seeming ones while the Gryffindor jocks wouldn't exactly go around harassing geeks whom they'd hardly notice :/
I'm trying to think about my own experiences here. I was usually pretty invisible, but I think I imagine Slytherins as Draco and Pansy and when I was in school those were the types I was usually more likely to eventually be able to deal with. The people who actually picked on me occasionally were more like some Gryffindors. I think I got on that type's nerves more. People like Pansy and Draco didn't seem to have that problem as much. But then, we know more Gryffindors so there is no one Gryffindor personality. It's not like Lavender would pick on me, or Hermione, or Harry. Meanwhile with Luna we're to believe all the Ravenclaws go after her--nice. Real intelligent there. However, if the twins ever pulled one of their jokes on me I would hate them forever and avoid them and if one of them died I'd think that was great. I'd equally hate Pansy or Draco for making fun of me, but like I said those types of people seemed to eventually stop making fun of me.
I totally think Gryffs and Slyths fit into the same groove-- that's why I ship their Houses in an archetypal way, of course. They're two sides of the same coin. I just don't like the fannish practice of bringing down Gryffindor mentality to celebrate Slytherin-- because they're so united. It's silly to me.
Yes, definitely.
But yes, behind the scenes-- though I think of them as 'the right hand man' sort of deal. *dons shippy hat*
Yeah-that's what I should have said. Behind the scenes. The other two houses are more people you'd go to openly. You wouldn't exactly go to a Slytherin for advice. They'd just be there beside the throne whispering in the king's ear.
Hmmm. Draco as fleeing rat. I can see that. Though I must say, Peter's 'survival' isn't any sort of life I'd want for Draco :>
Me neither, but then if he was this generation's Peter he'd be more like Snape because he'd be running to the other side. Not that I'd want Snape's life for him either.
no subject
Date: 2004-07-15 09:18 pm (UTC)So I don't know about Slytherins, actually. I think I was invisible to most people, too, but I was just thinking that Gryffindor types would be higher up on the social strata-- out there with the uber-popular people who didn't know I existed. It's not that I knew any Slytherin types, it's that I assume they'd be the ones by default since they seem more likely to go after geeks or something. It depends if Slytherin-type bullies are-- what-- gothier or punker or whatever. If they are, then I didn't know any. If they were supposed to be more like the people in innercity gangs, though-- yeah, those noticed me more than any preppy types. Er. I went to a scary innercity school for a bit, and I'm still bitter :D Mostly, the people who picked on me weren't really all that mean to me anyway. I was just kinda sensitive ^^;
Overall, I don't have enough experience with social groups and/or cliques in school to judge, since I wasn't part of any group since grade school. *sigh* I was usually excluded-- hey I still am, except it's never been because I'm disliked. I'm just not the popular type. Well, being really shy and reclusive (not to mention antisocial) prolly had something to do with that ;)
So basically, I'd just observed and picked things up from TV. I don't actually know if there was a 'type' of person who'd pick on me. I think anyone who wasn't a geek would pick on me, and I knew virtually no geeks. heh. Mostly I was somewhat looked down upon yet respected. If that makes sense. Some of the more introverted popular girls tended to feel... what... benevolent towards me. Like if I was a bit more shiny they'd take me under their wing. That happened more in grade school-- I just hung around, a bit like Peter almost, though I felt no resentment 'cause I was always solitary. Um. Totally not relevant, but :>
That reference to gangs definitely made something click in my head. I think it's the boyishness & the gang mentality that escapes me-- and in fact, one of the major differences between Harry & Draco is that Draco has a gang mentality while Harry doesn't, even though Harry's not really a loner or anything. My father was in a gang. That's a weird thing to realize. He wasn't all that unlike Draco, I think, AHAHAHAHAH OMG I'M CRACKING UP. Well, he was more like fanon Draco, 'cause he was charming & uber-intelligent & smooth :>
This whole notion of extraverted!Draco makes me quail-- 'cause this whole notion seems to depend on extraversion-- 'cause that means I haven't been writing him correctly, all this time. I mean, I do write really tightly-focused stuff about Harry & Draco, but now it just doesn't make sense that he'd focus so much on this one person he doesn't even spend most of his time with :/ I thought I'd made my Draco much less introspective-- I was so happy to get over that initial characterization (gah!)-- but I think that if he's not extraverted, he's introverted by default. Bleh.
Y'know, this is making me question just how important Harry is to Draco on a personal level. I mean, apparently he talked about Harry all the time to his father at one point, but. He has a gang he's a part of. He has a life. How much time does he have for obsessing? Is obsessing like that really something outgoing gang-having boys do? I mean, probably unconsciously if at all. He prolly just -reacts- without thinking about-- just says things that come to him. Mer.
At least I'm not alone. Every good H/D writer I can think of seems to write introverted!Draco, even the ones like Augustus & Silvia & Miss Breed who write him as a boy. :/ Though Potterstinks was pretty extraverted. BLEARGH. :/