~~ the dark Father.
Jul. 14th, 2004 11:04 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaEveryone knows that I hate Lucius Malfoy, right? Well, I thought I did. And then I saw ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
jereeza's watercolor version of him and... *siiiiigh* Yes. Finally! Finally! Gah. I don't know where to begin. The short hair helps a lot, but it's really the expression-- this man is beautiful because he isn't pretty. Oh, how happy that makes me.
Ahhh, the Trelawney portrait is also vivid like that to me, mmmmyes.
It's funny, because I'm actually obsessed with physical beauty, and you'd be hard-pressed to find someone much more fixated on the pleasure to be found in the appearances of things. So I understand where the need to draw everything pretty comes from-- I draw everything as pretty as I can, myself, though I try not to. I just think that illustrating a character is something to take seriously in terms of the depiction of their personality as much as the technical aspect. Every picture is worth a thousand words, they say. Well, it -is-.
I think it's just that in my mind, Lucius is "The Terrible Father" archetype, and this almost Victorian-looking portrait really reminds me of that aesthetic. I don't mean 'terrible' as in ghastly, I mean as in formidable-- a towering force. To me, a parent like that is the stuff of childish nightmares, since I was something of a sensitive child, I think, and naturally exaggerated my own parents' terribleness. Even my rather loving mother became larger than life-- had a definite fearsome aspect. I can only imagine what it's like when your father -is- actually scary.
The painting reminds me of my childhood nightmares, I think, and of the fairy-tales I'd read where you had The Dark Father who punished the curious, adventurous child. You didn't really -know- The Father-- he was a huge, looming shadow and a vague memory of being bounced upon his knee next to a sunlit window when you were much younger. You looked up at him from your scrawny height and thought he was something other than human-- his severe, patrician features and his coldly set mouth and his stare that could pierce you through the heart and spread ice right down to your toes.
I think it's just that-- for me-- Lucius is very much a children's book character. He is most fascinating at his most inhuman, when one looks at him through Draco's terrified-yet-enthralled pov. He's quite a contrast to Mr. Dursley, who so many fic writers use as a simple plot device to terrorize Harry-- it seems to me that Mr. Dursley was easily overcome, especially by Harry. He's the one a child could trick because I'm pretty sure even at 7 years old Harry had more wits and spirit about him than Vernon Dursley knew how to deal with. So it's more than a bit ridiculous to have so many fics where he physically abuses Harry and Harry just -takes- it. If nothing else, I think Harry's magic would've flared if he was that terrified or angry.
Anyway, perhaps it's just that more people have parents like the Dursleys than like the Malfoys, so they write what's more familiar and easily understood or something. I have to admit, my own fantasies and fears ran more towards the Malfoy end of the spectrum: my parents were both indulgent and distant in different ways, and they were both rather powerful in my mind.
Looking atjereeza's Lucius from an adult pov, I just see a wretched, miserly man who's trapped in his own machinations-- a man who wears a veneer of disdain to cover up an inability to take any real joy in -anything-. I think what most people forget is that Lucius Malfoy is meant to be ugly. And I don't mean physically-- I mean this man's spirit is truly ugly. This isn't so much about bitterness (borne of anger & despair), even, as with Snape: I think this man is consumed with all-out hatred (borne of fear).
I don't mean to use 'ugliness' (or monstrousness) as a way to dehumanize him, really. Plenty of humans are like this-- they shrivelled up inside as they became ever more consumed with power as a means in itself. The more one craves control over others (especially those who cannot fight back as one's equals-- say, oh, Muggles), the more one tries to distance oneself from one's vulnerabilities. One cannot be controlling or cold without losing touch with one's inner child to the point where one forgets what it felt like in the first place. All one remembers is powerlessness, now replaced with power.
My bias is, of course, that I've always associated the need for control (over others) with moral degeneration. It's basically at the root of all degeneration of one's capacity for compassion (i.e., humanity) in general as far as I can tell. My idea of Lucius is almost completely centered around his use of those weaker than himself to gain power; therefore Lucius is rather antithetical to me.
I've always had this underlying horror of Harry/Lucius as a pairing partly because it makes me think of the sacrificial lamb. Harry is so needful of a good Father in his life, and Lucius is just the complete opposite. And I think Harry could 'take' him if you mean in a fight, but the idea of any sort of cohabitation makes me think of a pale, miserable 11-year old being shipped off to the awful dark Mansion in a long black limo, his wet face pressed to the car window as he's being driven away.
I think in the end, I myself am too much of a child, still, to tolerate the idea that this child could grow up and not escape. Growing up has to be about escape. This is what we're escaping! This man and everything he stands for. This is precisely the kind of adult that's the enemy of every child with any shred of creativity or imagination, I think. He mesmerizes me and repulses me and inspires me to write to exorcise that demon.
This picture keeps making me think of the kind of Mansion this portrait would fit on the wall of. It reminds me of Penelope's `Carnivorous House'. Wah.
jereeza's watercolor version of him and... *siiiiigh* Yes. Finally! Finally! Gah. I don't know where to begin. The short hair helps a lot, but it's really the expression-- this man is beautiful because he isn't pretty. Oh, how happy that makes me. Ahhh, the Trelawney portrait is also vivid like that to me, mmmmyes.
It's funny, because I'm actually obsessed with physical beauty, and you'd be hard-pressed to find someone much more fixated on the pleasure to be found in the appearances of things. So I understand where the need to draw everything pretty comes from-- I draw everything as pretty as I can, myself, though I try not to. I just think that illustrating a character is something to take seriously in terms of the depiction of their personality as much as the technical aspect. Every picture is worth a thousand words, they say. Well, it -is-.
I think it's just that in my mind, Lucius is "The Terrible Father" archetype, and this almost Victorian-looking portrait really reminds me of that aesthetic. I don't mean 'terrible' as in ghastly, I mean as in formidable-- a towering force. To me, a parent like that is the stuff of childish nightmares, since I was something of a sensitive child, I think, and naturally exaggerated my own parents' terribleness. Even my rather loving mother became larger than life-- had a definite fearsome aspect. I can only imagine what it's like when your father -is- actually scary.
The painting reminds me of my childhood nightmares, I think, and of the fairy-tales I'd read where you had The Dark Father who punished the curious, adventurous child. You didn't really -know- The Father-- he was a huge, looming shadow and a vague memory of being bounced upon his knee next to a sunlit window when you were much younger. You looked up at him from your scrawny height and thought he was something other than human-- his severe, patrician features and his coldly set mouth and his stare that could pierce you through the heart and spread ice right down to your toes.
I think it's just that-- for me-- Lucius is very much a children's book character. He is most fascinating at his most inhuman, when one looks at him through Draco's terrified-yet-enthralled pov. He's quite a contrast to Mr. Dursley, who so many fic writers use as a simple plot device to terrorize Harry-- it seems to me that Mr. Dursley was easily overcome, especially by Harry. He's the one a child could trick because I'm pretty sure even at 7 years old Harry had more wits and spirit about him than Vernon Dursley knew how to deal with. So it's more than a bit ridiculous to have so many fics where he physically abuses Harry and Harry just -takes- it. If nothing else, I think Harry's magic would've flared if he was that terrified or angry.
Anyway, perhaps it's just that more people have parents like the Dursleys than like the Malfoys, so they write what's more familiar and easily understood or something. I have to admit, my own fantasies and fears ran more towards the Malfoy end of the spectrum: my parents were both indulgent and distant in different ways, and they were both rather powerful in my mind.
Looking at
jereeza's Lucius from an adult pov, I just see a wretched, miserly man who's trapped in his own machinations-- a man who wears a veneer of disdain to cover up an inability to take any real joy in -anything-. I think what most people forget is that Lucius Malfoy is meant to be ugly. And I don't mean physically-- I mean this man's spirit is truly ugly. This isn't so much about bitterness (borne of anger & despair), even, as with Snape: I think this man is consumed with all-out hatred (borne of fear).I don't mean to use 'ugliness' (or monstrousness) as a way to dehumanize him, really. Plenty of humans are like this-- they shrivelled up inside as they became ever more consumed with power as a means in itself. The more one craves control over others (especially those who cannot fight back as one's equals-- say, oh, Muggles), the more one tries to distance oneself from one's vulnerabilities. One cannot be controlling or cold without losing touch with one's inner child to the point where one forgets what it felt like in the first place. All one remembers is powerlessness, now replaced with power.
My bias is, of course, that I've always associated the need for control (over others) with moral degeneration. It's basically at the root of all degeneration of one's capacity for compassion (i.e., humanity) in general as far as I can tell. My idea of Lucius is almost completely centered around his use of those weaker than himself to gain power; therefore Lucius is rather antithetical to me.
I've always had this underlying horror of Harry/Lucius as a pairing partly because it makes me think of the sacrificial lamb. Harry is so needful of a good Father in his life, and Lucius is just the complete opposite. And I think Harry could 'take' him if you mean in a fight, but the idea of any sort of cohabitation makes me think of a pale, miserable 11-year old being shipped off to the awful dark Mansion in a long black limo, his wet face pressed to the car window as he's being driven away.
I think in the end, I myself am too much of a child, still, to tolerate the idea that this child could grow up and not escape. Growing up has to be about escape. This is what we're escaping! This man and everything he stands for. This is precisely the kind of adult that's the enemy of every child with any shred of creativity or imagination, I think. He mesmerizes me and repulses me and inspires me to write to exorcise that demon.
This picture keeps making me think of the kind of Mansion this portrait would fit on the wall of. It reminds me of Penelope's `Carnivorous House'. Wah.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2004-07-14 08:32 pm (UTC)Like, I think of Harry as *wanting* a good father in his life, and needing one in certain ways, but not the most basic ones. So I just can't imagine him getting past, "Hello," with Lucius because he just thinks he's an asshole and I don't think he could even think of him as a father. A father to Malfoy, yeah, in terms of being a larger, more annoying version of the git in his class, but not a father like his own or even like Sirius, you know?
With Draco, now that's where he's scary to me. I just see this little kid looking up up up at him until he practically blots out the sun. He reminds me of this Dr. Seuss book I remember seeing when I was little that was about Moms and Dads, maybe? (Maybe it wasn't a Seuss book just a random house book in that same imprint so it looked like one superficially.) Anyway, there was all this stuff about dads and then it said, "Sometimes Dads can be scary," and there was this picture of this angry father looking down from what looked like a great height and I thought yeah, that's totally what's scary about fathers.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:gippy gip
From:Re: gippy gip
From:Re: gippy gip
From:Re: gippy gip
From:Re: gippy gip
From:Re: gippy gip
From:(no subject)
From:Re: gippy gip
From:(no subject)
From:Re: gippy gip
From:Re: gippy gip
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:oh, and...
From:meh. more fixing.
From:astrology
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2004-07-14 11:30 pm (UTC)We aim to please, Milady! *low and floorsweepy bow*
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2004-07-15 11:56 am (UTC)(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:long spammy response
Date: 2004-07-17 04:51 am (UTC)A point I hadn't considered - they're pretty quick to fly off the handle themselves...But Hermione and McGonagall have tried, and they're fairly patient.
He's changed his mind about Hermione after seeing her in a situation which showed she -was- vulnerable & she became more of a 'real person' to him.
I always thought that was fairly significant.
I think before the end, he'll end up seeing someone in a different life - a Slytherin? Just someone he dislikes - Zacharias Smith? Fuck knows, but I think the lesson about there being some things you can't go through together without becoming friends will be repeated.
He accepted Sirius after he was presented with new evidence (and this was a man supposedly out to kill him).
See, that just creeps me out and irritates me on some levels, I suppose. I mean, I accept, Harry's an emotionally needy person, like a lot of people who've lost parents. But walk right into things, much?
You've known the guy two minutes, he's clearly unhinged, he's off into hiding for god knows how long - DON'T GET ATTACHED. Perhaps I'm just way more slow to trust, but just because Sirius isn't the bad guy in PoA, doesn't mean he's the daddy you never had!
He questioned his father...after the Pensieve, to an extent (not completely, but he began to budge).
Well, he's got a way to go on that one, perhaps.
But then I think James has sunk as low as he will in Harry's eyes - the next few books will probably have the sub-plot of 'James was redeemed by Lily's love, bla bla, don't forget, he died for his son!' *shudders*
The post pensieve scene made me laugh, when he was all 'I'm shocked and appalled at my dad's behaviour! I would never ever do that, except I might laugh as someone else did, to someone who deserves it!'
Way to miss the point, Harry, you knucklehead!
part two
Date: 2004-07-17 04:53 am (UTC)I guess this is where we've gotta agree to disagree.
I think you can believe in yourself as superior and never even realise you're doing it.
I mean, with Harry you have a character that is emotionally deprived, but extraordinarily privileged on other levels - talented, famous, wealthy, doesn't have to obey the rules that everyone else does...
So obviously there's a contrast in self image there - one side of him is thinking that he doesn't deserve anything (the effects of living with the Dursleys) that he's just normal ( the part in OotP for example, when Hermione and Ron are trying to persuade him to head the DA); but the other side is saying pretty much what he bellowed in OotP about how much better he is than his friends.
It's extremely similiar to 'Conversations with Dead People' (you're a BtVS fan, yeah? You know what I'm trying to reference?)
I really think you can't look at one side without the other, though. People who aren't Harry fans (or Buffy fans, for that matter) can't ignore or dismiss the genuinely good sides of their personalities - love for their friends, their 'heroism'; those sides aren't cancelled out by the times when they *are* selfish or self-pitying.
Likewise, Harry/Buffy defenders can't deny their nastier sides by saying 'Look at all the good they've done!' because they *do* have faults, like everybody else; there are times when they are too self-obsessed or when they take out their feelings about other things onto self appointed 'baddies', and their good works don't magically erase this.
part three, in which reenka bans roxanne for spam
Date: 2004-07-17 04:54 am (UTC)He doesn't seem to want social power, but he seems easily irritated by anyone else getting attention for very long.
He doesn't pick fights with people who don't provoke him, but he does defend himself-- that's how he's been able to survive, I think.
No, but perhaps because of his childhood, he's extremely quick to judge himself as being 'provoked' - "someone mouthed off to me? I'm provoked! Someone questions my actions? I'm provoked!"
virtually every character in HP has it in one way or another-- Dumbledore, Snape, Draco, Hermione, the Weasley twins, Lucius, even Luna-- all more than Harry-- or say, Neville or Ron.
Seriously? You think Harry is the least arrogant character of all? Could you go into this, please, I'm a little confused?
Believing you are right and going with your gut is a sort of arrogance, but if it is, I also possess it in a large enough degree that people accuse me of it :>
Don't we all - Look at us, debating away, both convinced we're right ;)
Malfoy provokes him first-- he taunts and makes fun and tries to get Harry in trouble and generally is a pain in the ass. Harry isn't the verbal sort, so he 'gets back' at Malfoy like any boy would.
Malfoy doesn't start things physically because he's cowardly, yeah? Except for when he does, and isn't.
(GRR! I wish that JKR would just say 'I'm the expert, I think about his characterization like everyone else's, pipe down!' rather than 'Ew, giggle, he's so icky!' which just makes me think that she's using all the other characters as tools to make Harry and The Gryffindors look good.)
Harry isn't using undue force (i.e., he's not 100 times stronger -- or even twice stronger-- than Draco).
Harry's strength is such an annoying issue in fanon, and canon, I guess. And extending that, Draco's strength, and the strength of anyone who 'fights' Harry, physically and emotionally.
Draco equals him in flying, except he doesn't.
Draco equals him in duelling, except he doesn't.
Draco equals him physically (Harry's small, Draco's small, yeah?), except he doesn't.
I think this is going back to the discussion we had before about the Slytherins being the characters we're supposed to fear, but actually, the Trio seem to out-do them on every level.
*beats JKR with SHOW DON'T TELL over and over*
At this point, Harry's such a SuperSue, one could make an argument that he's not subject to the same rules as others while fighting students, but I'm not going to. So.
Any approval is given to him by fans, not implied by the fact of his behavior alone.
Maybe. I guess we have to wait until the end to see.
I think approval is implied by the text, so far, and I'm pessimistic enough to say that after five books, it's a little late for JKR to start imbueing him books with any kind of morals worth following.
Harry doesn't -think-, period. He doesn't -think- he's right, he just -acts-. Draco thinks he's right because his father says this-and-this- Harry just -does- things.
I guess Draco doesn't think either, then?
I mean, Harry's always going on gut instincts, and luckily enough they serve him well, but obviously he gets tripped up by his own prejudices and y'know, being *wrong* sometimes.
Draco hasn't considered whether Mudbloods/Muggleborns actually are dangerous to the WW, he's used his gut instinct to say, like Harry, 'But Daddy thinks it! It must be right!'
Silly boys; *clouts over heads* they'll learn.
A lot of boys bully 'cause they can-- it's a fast & easy way to feel superior & good about yourself. It's...fun to...manipulate and abuse those weaker than oneself, for some people.
That's why I'm glad I was born a girl! ;)
Re: part three, in which reenka bans roxanne for spam
From:reenka bans roxanne for spam
From: