(fear is not the end of this)

[reenka]

What confuses me... okay, most things confuse me, but. In particular: when most people (whoever you are-- and who are you, anyway??)-- when they believe something, do they believe it without doubt? Do they really? Or do they just not go on about their crises of belief the way I do?

I was just looking through my H/D posts in my memories, and I realized that most of them were about how I -want- to believe, and -need- to believe, but also what a struggle it is. It generally sounds as if I'm trying to convince myself more than anyone, and basically I use a lot of my most unrealistic and romantic ideals to back me up 'cause I have such a hard time 'seeing' it, realistically-speaking. Mind you, I don't think my love of the pairing ever wavers significantly-- only my tolerance for pretense.

It's a weird, masochistic thing, in a way, believing in the necessity of things-- the necessity of impossible love-- that never let you rest. I'm listening to Ani's `Both Hands' right now, thanks to the H/D soundtrack on hp_soundtracks, and yeah, it's such an H/D song-- just. Yeah. Ani's great for H/D-- `As Is', especially. Oh man, I -wish-. I wish.


and i am listening to the low moan of the dial tone again
and i am getting nowhere with you
and i can't let it go
and i can't get through

I think. I think... yeah. I think it can't work. It won't work. You know? I always sit there and think "it won't work" like I'm condemning my own spirit to pain (as in, I know it'll hurt when it happens), and then I nod and go "well, back to it, then". And I feel like... this isn't what 'shipping' is about for most people, is it? People break up, get up and do it again and tell themselves it wasn't 'right' the last time, that's all. But what if it -was- right? What if love is the only thing that really -matters-, but what if it's not enough anyway? That's the question that won't leave me alone, and I try to answer it to my satisfaction (yes? no? neither answer seems to -work-) and I -can't-.

Every time I look into the future of love, I feel all depressed, so I prefer not to look. Love dies, doesn't it? Especially stupid, passionate, teenage love. It dies. But that's the point-- the story becomes more poignant, more important, more vital. The knowledge of its death creates its life, for me. It makes the life more intense, this constant threat of extinction-- I mean, isn't that the human condition? We, none of us, will last.

please use both hands
oh, no don't close your eyes
i am writing graffiti on your body
i am drawing the story of how hard we tried


...It's Achilles' love: flying though you know you'll fall-- fighting though you know you'll die. It's that story.
    But not always. Not always. Those are the good days, man. Listening to Live's `I Alone' (intended as being from Dumbledore to Harry, and it fits) makes me think of how Draco might feel. Because Harry isn't the only one 'chained to fate', and Draco's chained to Harry's. Sometimes I believe they can break fate together.

it's easier not to be wise
and measure these things by your brains

Comments

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Believe is a strange word...I seem to talk about it a lot when talking about God. Because theists tend to say that non-theists "don't want to believe" in God, and sometimes vice versa. And I know what that means but at the same time really the word "believe" refers to something you can't choose. Either you believe it or you don't. Even if underneath you want something to be true, can you really convince yourself it is?

So I feel like with God or with H/D (two things with a lot in common!) maybe we believe in something about he abstract concept? Like with H/D it's not just about "love conquers all" but that love can exist in these kinds of circumstances or between these kinds of people? And for me I guess too it's that the two of them just seem so connected that I believe *that* and then can play it out any number of ways. If that makes sense.

So if you were talking about real love I think you can be cynical about love but still be a big romantic when it comes to the real thing. Because it doesn't matter of "love" can do something or not, it only matters that you and this person can do this thing. And it works the other way too, I guess. Some people have all this belief in love but it would never translate to their own relationship. I think in H/D the characters can feel both those ways--definitely they both seem like boys who want to believe in certain things but have doubts. I'm just not sure whether they truly believe or not--are they denying the belief or the disbelief? Either way it can make for a good story!

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's that lack of choice that was so inspiring about the second thought I added as a postcript-- `I Alone'-- that's the point of it. The point of `Both Hands' is that these two people are somehow lesser than what they feel-- they are fallible and human, and they can't live up to what they -should-, somehow. It's a typical sort of modern cynicism, yes-- where you know your failings but you can't seem to do anything about them.

And then I listened to `I Alone', and I remembered that sense of 'fate'-- another word for being 'connected', yes. Because they -are- connected, and there's nothing they could do about it. They may choose to run away and they probably wouldn't, but it'd be a lot like running away from themselves, since they're such reflections of each other.

I also really love what you said about belief and choice-- because in my experience, belief really isn't a choice, but questioning mine doesn't seem a choice for me either. A function of either self-consciousness or some existential fear, I dunno~:) And in the end, whatever one believes in terms of ideal, it's all trial and error anyway-- the individual story has to -work-; that particular variant of the future has to stand alone and speak. That's why I dislike saying that a fic appeals to 'shippers'-- people who'll read anything. I want to be convinced over and over again, ideally~:)

Because it doesn't matter of "love" can do something or not, it only matters that you and this person can do this thing.
Yes! That's what hits me eventually-- this sense that it doesn't matter what you say about them or what -they- may say about themselves, only that they're both just so powerfully desperate-- so obsessive-- that they couldn't let go anyway. They both believe in themselves and it their own power, and in the necessity of going after what they -need-. So it's like, if anyone could do it, -these- two can, strangely enough.

It's like, what I'm doubting isn't even Harry & Draco and the strength of their characters-- it's just a general disillusionment I sometimes feel with the world. But... yes. The story is fascinating, either way-- because, in the end, no story is final, so it's all about the struggle-- the neverending conflict between the different possible fates. And all of it's so dramatic and meaningful and has so much potential to illuminate the world.

And the bit about them denying the disbelief-- that's great :D Because there's clearly a lot of denial going on, isn't there? And you're never quite sure, and neither are they. And... maybe The Story is more about the question than about the answer, 'cause the answer is always different while the shippers' (my) question remains~:)

[wobblygoblin.livejournal.com]

Every time I look into the future of love, I feel all depressed, so I prefer not to look. Love dies, doesn't it?

Mmm, that sparks a different sort of thought for me. After awhile all the "shipping", all the "fanfic", leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I have to back away quickly, very quickly. Because with each story we're given days and months and weeks of unresolved emotions and tug-at-the-heartstring situations that really only last a few pages and in the end--no matter if it ends happy or sad--I'm left with a bad taste in my mouth.

Because I think it creates the illusion that love is a tidy tidy bundle like that. After the last paragraph, I always wonder... What happens next? No matter how deep or poignant the story, it's never -complete- and that's what frustrates me, because it doesn't seem likely that anyone can or will write a story that spans in detail fifty years of a person's life with the kind of writing displayed in all the fanfic I've read.

It's like, I look at my parents, married for 25 years, or my grandparents, one set married for fifty years and another forty-three years, and I think how does that work? I mean honestly. Their lives are not the angst-ridden, emotionally charged dramas/romances you read about but they have this deep, profound love for one another that shakes me to my core and makes me wish with everything in my heart that I will know how to do what they do, find someone to spend my life with and work through all the mundane every day things that nobody ever seems to think about in fanfic.

And reading fanfic and the like sort of -lies- to you and makes you think love has to, has to, be this roller-coaster frenzy of feeling. I mean, where do you go from there? It makes me feel that anything but the kind of passionate scarring/healing, consuming/renewing love I read about is really just boring, and wouldn't you rather just escape into fantasy, my dear, hm? A quick read won't hurt, there's a lass. Let's just make you feel inadequate and ruin all your chances at that kind of steady, solid love you observe in your parents or grandparents because you pass it up in favor of something you think you should be feeling.

So after a while I can't stand to read about love because I wonder if the people writing it have actually FELT, really FELT the kind of connection or emotion or whatever they describe or if they're writing the ideal or writing refried beans of what someone has written before them.

And the language is pretty and the characters say they feel all these wonderful things so reality and truth are considered unimportant in the face of... oh I don't even know if there's a word for it. Writer's fancy or audience's desire or something.

Sigh. This is what happens when I eat candy before bed.

also

[wobblygoblin.livejournal.com]

As for belief, well... I think that there are just certain things you believe that you don't have to convince yourself of. But that it differs for every person. I believe that homophobia is ignorance and that people are basically good even though there's often sewage in the way and you shouldn't hurt people unless you really have to and even then you have no right, just survival. I believe love exists, but not the kind in the movies and that intelligent people are always attractive, even if they're ugly, because their mind is beautiful.

As for God... I think belief is easier for some people than others, in respect to their intelligence. The more intelligence a person possesses, the more curious the mind; consequently, the more they question. A tiny part of me believes there is a God and a tiny part of me always questions it, but I've accepted that about myself.

And I think more importantly, after I've accepted, it's what I want to believe that matters because you'll never stop yourself from questioning because you can't put blinders on your mind. But figuring out what you -want- to believe, and even if you question it, trying to believe it. That's what matters. I -want- to believe in a higher power even if I question it. So the part of me that believes outweighs the part of me that doesn't, that questions, that dissects. And I can be content with that.

Haha, I sure hope I made some sort of sense. It is awfully past my bedtime.

[fiendling.livejournal.com]

ahoy! i see you requested to join artbeta!
I'll add you, but just to be fair, you still have to leave a comment with the necessary info at this post before i do :P
http://www.livejournal.com/community/artbeta/614.html

thanks :D

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

.....
*breaks down laughing*
man. I must be really out of it. 'Cause like, I was -thinking-, like... okay, I can tell it's not open membership, yah okay read that part, but.... where's the part where it says what to do to join....? o_0 And then I kind of let that thought hang... for awhile... and looked at random bits at the artexchange for like... an hour or so, ahahahah. I could've sworn (on what, I dunno-- swiss cheese?) that I didn't see anything saying 'go here', but I think that's mixed up in my head with the hp_soundtracks saying they have an info post, but it's locked. So I was like, "oh well, maybe it's locked...?"



....yeah ^^;;

[unsubtle.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I remember the first time I listened to Ani the first thought that came to mind was "Omg, H/D." Especially that song "As Is," actually -- it's so perfect. For some reason, all these songs make me want to write H/D like nothing else. I'm the kind of person who writes on a song and has it playing nonstop in the background while they write =P
Now I really want to write more songfic...

[ex-monochro174.livejournal.com]

Ah, Reena, your post made me cry. :))

I think doubt is part of belief; horribly enough, this was said a video I watched in Confirmation class once. But even so, I think it has to be, or how can it stand up to anything? I don't know; when someone puts his or her belief in my face, I want to know why he or she believes it, whether it was fought for through the questions and doubts, because then it means something to that person. I guess I see the questioning as part of growing into your belief(s).

I love what you said, What if love is the only thing that really -matters-, but what if it's not enough anyway? Because I wonder. In fact, I was wondering just last night, and here's another awful reference - my mom was watching Just Married and I walked in at the end, where Ashton is talking to his father and is like, "I love her, but that isn't enough." Or something like that. And his father tells him that sometimes it's easy to love, and sometimes it's a struggle. I don't know, though. It reminds me of "The Poetics of Sex," by Jeanette Winterson, this short story she wrote. Because love almost died, there, they almost dropped it and walked away. But then - agh, just read it if you haven't. It's in her collection, The World And Other Places. It's one of my favorite love stories (okay, Jeanette writes all my favorite love stories, but that's besides the point), because it makes me believe that love itself can transmute and be just as strong, that sometimes - if we try - our love can change with us.

Because, you're right, love does die. Or at least, in some cases, it turns out not to be enough for people and they tell themselves it's died. But here, for more Jeanette Winterson, she says: Love wounds. There is no love that does not pierce the hands and feet. Love's exquisite happiness is also love's exquisite pain. I do not seek pain but there is pain. I do not seek suffering but there is suffering. It is better not to flinch, not to try and avoid these things in love's direction. It is not easy, this love, but only the impossible is worth the effort.

That's what I see, I guess: that it is a fight, for them, for a lot of people, I guess. Any H/D shipper knows their relationship isn't easy, and to make it easy is just belittling who both of them are. But the chance to keep it alive - that, that risk, is worth it. Because I think love should be a risk. Sometimes it's not so drastic, but with Harry and Draco, it could destroy everything, you know? And maybe that would be a good thing, but it's one of those loves that changes lives. That reminds me of an Erica Jong quote which I can't remember completely, but it's about love being the biggest risk to take, and yet if you don't risk that, you risk even more. And "to see how long our swan song will last" - isn't that part of the risk? I mean, like you said: this constant threat of extinction.

Reading sabworks's comment, I know what she means, about what about the love that isn't a frenzy of feeling? Because I know people whose loves weren't and aren't, and theirs are the relationships that make me believe, most of all, that love can last. But there again is why I like to believe that love can transmute and still hold people together. Not always, no; there are a thousand cases where it can't. But for Picasso and Sappho in "The Poetics of Sex," and wah, in The Notebook (which made me cry), yeah. Because love can be mundane and miraculous at the same time, I think. In love, our miracles are ordinary. In love, what is ordinary is miraculous.

. . . continued!

[ex-monochro174.livejournal.com]

. . . continuing . . .

And see, I've been on the verge of giving up on H/D. I rarely write it, mostly because everything turns cliche after so many people have thought of the same thing, but also because it seems too hard. I mean, you can have risks and frenzied love in other pairings, but it's not so difficult to get them together, at least. But I think of Only the impossible is worth the effort and the way my girlfriend and I make up stories about everyone we see, one entailing these two boys at our former school who are obviously in love. (Even if they aren't, it makes for a beautiful - if really messed up - story.) Yet they're probably the last two people anyone would expect to get together, even if they were gay, yet together they're impossibly right. And Jen always says that it makes her believe in a world where two people like that can find each other, even when it's unexpected, improbable, impossible even.

"As Is" - gah, yeah. That's what we all hope they can reach, isn't it? That's kind of where I was going with "The Space Between," because sometimes that gap just can't be breached, not unless they fight hard enough. But sometimes it can. I mean, it can because they do. And believing in H/D is believing in the chance of them. I mean, the chance that this could be the love to live on, the one that could be made enough. Sometimes I believe they can break fate together. Yes. That's it, right there.

Ahaha, sorry for this. ♥♥♥!