(het issues; move along)
Jun. 15th, 2004 08:37 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaI think, if anything, I have an anti-self-insertion issue, when it comes to het in HP: meaning maybe I take it too far. I mean, the boy I "like" the most is Harry, right, and pairing either of the two girls I might possibly identify with-- Hermione and Luna-- just feels wrong to me. Then again, I've only ever wanted Harry with whatever girl struck his fancy (i.e., Cho), but I never really felt like I myself supported a Harry-het pairing. It's like... I can see Harry being friends with a girl (obviously), but he's just so... stunted, I guess? In regards to emotionality and mushy stuff and like... yeah.
I guess I want to deal with his rage issues and insecurities and the martyr complex as well as the need for companionship & understanding he would supposedly get from a balanced, reasonable girl (like Hermione & Luna in different ways). I want Harry to be with whoever he really wants and has chemistry/sparkage with-- and he just doesn't have sparkage with Hermione (or Luna).
Still, I also think it's got something to do with them being "like" me, at least insofar as I feel like people ship these pairings in part because they -do- identify with Hermione, say. She's like... a "good girl", and shouldn't be wasted. She's also right there and Harry can -talk- to her. And... it's like the male/femaleness provides that essential -distance- between people I'd talked about (that seems necessary for romance). It's like, well, of -course- they could have sexual tension, too-- they're a boy and girl, aren't they?
I know it's immature-- I know-- but I will laugh after Ron & Hermione get together and the shipping debates all end (at last!). No more ship debates!! No more angst!! Oh, that hallowed day.
I could totally see a modern, 20-something romance between a girl "like" Hermione (overworking herself all the time at the office) and a boy "like" Harry (lost and somewhat directionless, but determined and sincere). It seems like an English sort of thing, too, actually-- to have people who'd stay together not out of some Grand Passion but because it's -comfortable- and it -works- and why go through the bother of messing with a good thing? Ron could be seen as an unstable character-- someone who could easily succumb to bitterness and drown under the expectations of the world, unlike the prodigious achieving of Harry (through luck and wild talent) and Hermione (through prodigious effort and will). Arthur Weasley is probably doing a lot better in the Potterverse than he "should", as poor as he is.
I think I also dislike the idea of couples that "work"-- that "make sense". Maybe it's some sort of latent resentment or something (in that I both often ship and fall for implausible characters myself). I mean, if you don't drive each other mad, where's the fun of it? Like, if everything falls into place and you make sense together for whatever reason-- what is it that makes you -have- to do it, to take it to the next level? Why do the two of you -need- to have dirty monkey sex, right now?
I think what's obvious here is that I'm stuck on a certain ideal of love and am being unreasonable-- I'm priviledging romantic passionate love over companionate love or the other zillion or so types. I'm sure plenty of people have temperaments that don't -work- with the idea of having to tear someone's clothes off right this second (thus, you could say all H/D fic is really meta-equivalent to veela!Draco fic, being so centered on passion and the magnetic animal attraction of it all). Most people probably aren't as focused on these pre-teen ideals as I am-- a good thing. Sometimes it puzzles me as to how one could both ship H/D and H/Hr, since they're nearly completely opposite types of relationships-- but maybe it's just that I'm being rather more single-minded.
I would say, for example, that Hermione's temperament doesn't work (necessarily) with wild-eyed passionate love, while Luna's does, but not with Harry (who needs someone to light his fire, at least in my head). I kind of like Hermione with Ron because I see Hermione resisting, and this intrigues me. I think it would be unusual for Hermione to have someone push -her- in some way, and have her give in-- 'cause it's almost certain that Ron is the one who'd initiate a relationship. Hermione is bossy, yes, but in love... I think she'd be rather conservative-- the type to hedge her bets. So what we have is a classic Victorian-type romance, except Hermione is being "the man"-- rational and emotionally repressed and domineering-- while Ron is being "the woman"-- wildly emotional and enthusiastic and a bit clumsy, sort of heroic in a bumbling, self-sacrificing way. It's like Jane Eyre, except... not.
And in this scenario, the H/Hr is the relationship that gets thrown over, because of course Hermione (the man) is generally in a comfortable, non-emotionally-demanding relationship to start with, which keeps them content but hardly happy. Harry is the beautiful, also emotionally repressed "other woman" (ahem) who needs to find someone brilliant to light her fire. Someone... unpredictable. Someone destabilizing in a magical sort of way that's actually stabilizing. Yes.
Clearly I've read one too many romance novel in my day. Woe.
~~
Also. Um. Is it like, the next step of bottom!Draco lurv to write H/D with female!Draco? The wrongness mostly comes from it -not- bothering me. Too much. ^^;
I guess I want to deal with his rage issues and insecurities and the martyr complex as well as the need for companionship & understanding he would supposedly get from a balanced, reasonable girl (like Hermione & Luna in different ways). I want Harry to be with whoever he really wants and has chemistry/sparkage with-- and he just doesn't have sparkage with Hermione (or Luna).
Still, I also think it's got something to do with them being "like" me, at least insofar as I feel like people ship these pairings in part because they -do- identify with Hermione, say. She's like... a "good girl", and shouldn't be wasted. She's also right there and Harry can -talk- to her. And... it's like the male/femaleness provides that essential -distance- between people I'd talked about (that seems necessary for romance). It's like, well, of -course- they could have sexual tension, too-- they're a boy and girl, aren't they?
I know it's immature-- I know-- but I will laugh after Ron & Hermione get together and the shipping debates all end (at last!). No more ship debates!! No more angst!! Oh, that hallowed day.
I could totally see a modern, 20-something romance between a girl "like" Hermione (overworking herself all the time at the office) and a boy "like" Harry (lost and somewhat directionless, but determined and sincere). It seems like an English sort of thing, too, actually-- to have people who'd stay together not out of some Grand Passion but because it's -comfortable- and it -works- and why go through the bother of messing with a good thing? Ron could be seen as an unstable character-- someone who could easily succumb to bitterness and drown under the expectations of the world, unlike the prodigious achieving of Harry (through luck and wild talent) and Hermione (through prodigious effort and will). Arthur Weasley is probably doing a lot better in the Potterverse than he "should", as poor as he is.
I think I also dislike the idea of couples that "work"-- that "make sense". Maybe it's some sort of latent resentment or something (in that I both often ship and fall for implausible characters myself). I mean, if you don't drive each other mad, where's the fun of it? Like, if everything falls into place and you make sense together for whatever reason-- what is it that makes you -have- to do it, to take it to the next level? Why do the two of you -need- to have dirty monkey sex, right now?
I think what's obvious here is that I'm stuck on a certain ideal of love and am being unreasonable-- I'm priviledging romantic passionate love over companionate love or the other zillion or so types. I'm sure plenty of people have temperaments that don't -work- with the idea of having to tear someone's clothes off right this second (thus, you could say all H/D fic is really meta-equivalent to veela!Draco fic, being so centered on passion and the magnetic animal attraction of it all). Most people probably aren't as focused on these pre-teen ideals as I am-- a good thing. Sometimes it puzzles me as to how one could both ship H/D and H/Hr, since they're nearly completely opposite types of relationships-- but maybe it's just that I'm being rather more single-minded.
I would say, for example, that Hermione's temperament doesn't work (necessarily) with wild-eyed passionate love, while Luna's does, but not with Harry (who needs someone to light his fire, at least in my head). I kind of like Hermione with Ron because I see Hermione resisting, and this intrigues me. I think it would be unusual for Hermione to have someone push -her- in some way, and have her give in-- 'cause it's almost certain that Ron is the one who'd initiate a relationship. Hermione is bossy, yes, but in love... I think she'd be rather conservative-- the type to hedge her bets. So what we have is a classic Victorian-type romance, except Hermione is being "the man"-- rational and emotionally repressed and domineering-- while Ron is being "the woman"-- wildly emotional and enthusiastic and a bit clumsy, sort of heroic in a bumbling, self-sacrificing way. It's like Jane Eyre, except... not.
And in this scenario, the H/Hr is the relationship that gets thrown over, because of course Hermione (the man) is generally in a comfortable, non-emotionally-demanding relationship to start with, which keeps them content but hardly happy. Harry is the beautiful, also emotionally repressed "other woman" (ahem) who needs to find someone brilliant to light her fire. Someone... unpredictable. Someone destabilizing in a magical sort of way that's actually stabilizing. Yes.
Clearly I've read one too many romance novel in my day. Woe.
~~
Also. Um. Is it like, the next step of bottom!Draco lurv to write H/D with female!Draco? The wrongness mostly comes from it -not- bothering me. Too much. ^^;
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no subject
Date: 2004-06-16 10:37 am (UTC)You know, Hr/H is one of those issues that have their own special place in my psychosis. I mean, it's not the pairing I dislike the most, but it's the one that goes (or rather, I perceive as going... mmh, more meta wankery) against most of my convinctions, whether they are philosophical or political or simple what I think good writing is. So I end up resenting it in a way I don't resent any of the ships I dislike... a bit like The Matrix. Makes you think: "Why do people like this? What went wrong?" Ahaha.
The baggage I can't separate from H/Hr as a concept: the idea that if BOY and FEMALE are close = MUST FUCK (sort of like the idea that DRACO = DRACO'S COCK) and the "the hero gets the girl" school of thought that's like, totally the nemesis of what I think is important about humans and their stories. Ron's not enough of a hero for supergirl? So even if supergirl and superboy have the chemistry of an overbearing mother and her rebellious child they have to get together cos it's so... healthy? Peaceful and soothing and calm and... who wants to read about that?
And, I don't even ship R/Hr. I'd prefer they all went their separate ways (romantically) because... well, the certainty that she'll end up with one of them is a clichè all of its own. But at least there's something that can be recognised as sexual, or romantic, with Ron and Hermione. It's not about compatibility. Compatibility makes for good conversations. Harry and Hermione support each other, and I always disliked the concept of supporting romance, I mean, if I wanted support I'd call my therapist, no? And you know, in the end I'll give it to you that it could work in real life, but it doesn't make for a good story. Because lack of conflict = sucky story. Well, at least, a story that'd give me cramps from boredom. I guess this is what my mother meant when she said tastes differ.
Comfortable romance...? What's that? I am comfortable with my socks.
I think I also dislike the idea of couples that "work"-- that "make sense". Maybe it's some sort of latent resentment or something (in that I both often ship and fall for implausible characters myself). I mean, if you don't drive each other mad, where's the fun of it
Yes! If logical romance is really the way of the future, why don't we all just put our data in some supercomputer and let it do the matches?
42?
no subject
Date: 2004-06-16 12:25 pm (UTC)I always thought it was hilarious how most shippers would claim that their couple is the most "reasonable". Plenty of people think that it makes total and complete (logical!) sense for H&D to get together, 'cause like, blah-blah The-Hero-And-His-Shadow blah :> :> I've also read a GW 1x2 fic where Duo & Heero were matched up by a computer. They're soooo compatible it -hurts- y'know :D
The sad thing is.....
I really believe that -.-
no subject
Date: 2004-06-16 12:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-06-16 12:47 pm (UTC)YOU ARE SO EVAL, I HAVE NO WORDS FOR YOUUUUuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.
*pouts*
DAMMIT I HATE RELENA WITH THE FIERY PASSION OF A THOUSAND BLAZING SUNS!!1 AAAAAAARGH. My H/Hr issues are NOTHING, NOTHING to my 1xR issues, man, ahahahah. At least I can admit that H/Hr could work, y'know-- I refuse to see the appeal of 1xR. ACK THE EVIL, ACK. It's like Harry/Ginny with Harry being OoTP!Harry and Ginny still being CoS crushing!Ginny, aaack. And then like, Relena "grows up" and... and... no I can't be even remotely reasonable. I'm actually much more shippy in GW than I am in HP, 'cause I don't think there are as many serious "choices" and for Heero.
Maybe it's that the people who ship it usually piss me off with the whole idea that Relena is "good for him" and can redeem him from his hardened soldier's mindset. And even though they have all the passion of a flea & a fur coat, it's exciting because he's her knight in shining armor and her pet project all rolled into one. ACK EVIL ACK. It totally sets off the same alarms as the whole Harry's-love-redeems-Draco thing, thus turning him into nice, fanon!Draco. My issues with nice!Draco are NOTHING on my issues with nice!Heero. I mean, one could say he's not fit for human company (or a relationship) in the first place (not at 15 anyway), sure, but Relena wouldn't know what to do with him and they'd both feel guilty and feed his over-protective streak and dress him up to go to political functions and ACK.
Plus, goddamit but no one writes decent fics for anything but 1x2 in the GW fandom :D :D
...At first I thought you said 'Heero/Reena', and that was just really wrong, and I mean, I was like HOW DID YOU KNOW, ahahah. *COUGHS*
no subject
Date: 2004-06-16 12:52 pm (UTC)(Heero is a big nelly bottom, too.)
no subject
Date: 2004-06-16 01:02 pm (UTC)I am sticking to my guns because NO ONE WRITES IT THAT WAY SO :P
Plus I love Heero, man. And he doesn't love Relena "that way", so yeah. And I love Duo, so I want to give him Heero. And Relena could always go stalk Dorothy or something :>
no subject
Date: 2004-06-16 01:13 pm (UTC)He's a psycho sociopath and she's a psycho egomaniac.
Doroty's too busy stalking Quatre to kill him again and again.
no subject
Date: 2004-06-16 01:27 pm (UTC)Yeah, I know. It's a bit funny how people go like, 'well, he saved Duo's life when he should've killed him and then he punched him to protect him blah-blah'. *sigh* I like to think clearly they both (Heero & Duo) need some sort of therapy, and plenty of fanfics deal with that, buuuuut. I don't think Heero's necessarily just naturally sociopathic because he's been trained/brainwashed by Dr. J, hasn't he? I mean, that's the most plausible explanation I've come across. Maybe my mind's been eaten by fanfic. This is prolly true.
Anyway, post-war, he could start to unravel the whole soldier-mode thing and slowly begin to deactivate all those subroutines or whatever, though obviously it'd take time. I think the key to liking Heero is seeing him as a person who did what he felt he -had- to do, even though he hated it-- and even though he was fully aware, I think of what he was doing.
That's really the difference between Heero and a psychopath, and I think the series (as far as I can tell) really made a point of it-- that Heero -was- aware of the consequences of his actions, of the consequences of -war-, much more so than either Relena or the rest of the pilots. He's done the most damage but he's also carrying a lot of guilt on his shoulders.
Like, that whole thing with the little girl & the puppy and how that haunted him, the way he didn't want to fight any more than Quatre did, the way he collapsed in Relena's arms, saying he finally didn't have to kill anymore. I think the series went to pains to say, "well, this is a person who's been fighting his own personal desires for the 'greater good' as he saw it, all this time".
I think this is mostly because I tend to see the heroism in darkness whereas you just like the darkness unsheathed~:) I see Heero as sort of a tragic, semi-broken figure who learned to compromise his own integrity from a very young age (trained as an assassin since toddlerhood, etc), but even so that never completely eradicated his humanity (he didn't kill a lot of people he meant to kill, in the series; also, he went around offering his death to the families of his victims; not to mention that his very fascination with Relena is a sign of his yearning for some symbol/ideal of peace).
I mean, Duo is a much more naturally broken character, with his dual (heh) nature and the way he hides himself behind a mask and swallows up all the guilt and denies it. Whereas I actually don't think Heero intentionally hides things about himself from people-- he's just torn between the ideal of following his emotions & Doing What Has To Be Done. By the end of Endless Waltz, I definitely feel as if his choice was to follow his emotions and he's started to make peace with the whole idea of who he was as a soldier, and as a soldier that desired peace-- as seen through his conversation with Wufei, who didn't want to stop fighting.
Anyway, I can't be objective since I've read more 1x2 fic than is healthy for anyone, I'm sure :> :>