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reenkaThat's it, I've snapped (...again). I... I have to come up with actual -reasons- now for why I don't think that the way to rebel against a fictional school's House system is to decide the "ambitious, cunning" house is All That. So okay, I'll say it.
(I think) Slytherin House sucks. Or, let me rephrase that. It does not, under any circumstance, deserve admiration, except on a per-individual basis. Same could be said for almost -any- group.
...Gryffindor & Hufflepuff & Ravenclaw aren't much better. But Slytherin sucks worst, because-- well-- playing nicely with others isn't my idea of a Chief Virtue or anything (I hardly do), but. Making some sort of ideal out of being manipulative? That's just lame.
Maybe it's just... all right, I'll just say it... I don't think ambition or cunning are admirable qualities. That's... that's just all there is to it. I can never -admire- Slytherinness -because- it's so "Slytherin". I mean... being underhanded and manipulative and self-centered (one for one and all for one) or whatever-- what's so cool about that? That's your basic Scrooge mentality, man, like the way Victorian factory owners were supposed to think, employing homeless little boys to work 20-hour days in their clothing factories or whatever, no?
I'm oh-so-tired of people feeling sympathy for the underdog to the extent that they let their contrary nature overwhelm their sense of... I dunno... goodness. Just because "0" isn't quite right, doesn't mean "1" is the answer, does it? Binary systems. They annoy me :>
It's like the way so many people assume they must support the Democrats if they hate what the Republicans are doing. Jeez. The way people assume if I'm not one way, I'm the other all the time, in so many different ways, when they're all bad choices, when everything's corrupt. Every human group-- let's face it, it's corrupt. It gets to me, that's all. People not -thinking- about things in theory, only choosing to support the opposite from the option that annoys them, instead of reforming the option most deserving of support. Bleh!
Do all the go-go-Slytherin people seriously think that's the "best" idea for a House, somehow? Do people seriously think Houses in general are a good idea? Do they seriously think these ideals they stand for mean -anything- without the others?! Isn't it obvious they're all supposed to work in concert? Why god, WHY do people always choose sides?! WHY? (Okay I know why, but it's still frustrating.)
I mean... just because people think Harry is wrong in his behavior towards Draco or whatever (and he is, but he's understandable) doesn't mean Draco is a w00bie, does it? Just because a character is understandable or likable doesn't mean he's not a bastard, does it?
So, I mean. I love Draco, for instance, and not even -in spite- of the whole Slytherin issue-- I think it's a part of him, obviously, and it's not necessarily a bad thing. Necessarily. Just like Harry's a Gryffindor/Slytherin mix, and that's neither a good or a bad thing, necessarily, though the Slytherin ideals/virtues require much more fortitude and caution to use well. Gryffindor & Slytherin are different sides of the same coin, as Harry himself demonstrates, doesn't he? Isn't that part of the whole -point- of Harry's characterization, and thus, by extension, the HP books in general? So how can there be this rift in fan alliance between the two Houses?
I can't stand it when people are all woo-woo-Slytherin. It makes me all... disturbed and creeped out, because if people seriously think ambition and ruthless cunning are the main qualities to strive for in life, they've got... issues. Of course, by extension, I suppose all of the American (and Japanese) capitalist system is built around those things to a large extent, so. No surprise, eh? Every man for himself, all that. Great. Must we applaud it?? Must we? DUDE! *stews*
I also hate it when people take the opposite view and are blindly pro-Gryffindor, 'cause I mean... who the hell cares about bravery and righteousness? Where's the understanding and mercy here? How could we trust any school-age child to know what "justice" is? What the hell? Are we seriously supposed to believe that everyone in Gryffindor either knows what bravery is or cares about these ideals? (Of course not, it's just what they want to see themselves as the most.) Or that all the clear idiots in Slytherin would even know cunning if it bit them on the ass?
...On the other hand, okay, maybe the fans (and some of the actual Slytherins) choose to cast their lot with that House 'cause they don't feel "good". (Though, how silly is it to associate oneself with fictional Houses, anyway?) Like, it's a low self-esteem problem that turns into "We're Here and We're Weird"... you know... except not. I love the idea of Slytherin House as having self-esteem issues while Gryffindors are the cocky ones and the Hufflepuffs are the shy/meek ones and the Ravenclaws are the stand-offish ones. Ha!
Feel my Hufflepuff rage, man. Feel it :D
~~
I think this is slightly related to all the people who love Spike (I was gonna say 'like Spike', but... no) because he's "evil" (aka the Big Bad). Also, y'know, the people who like Draco 'cause he's... well... Slytherin. I love Spike, too, but it's because he's Spike-- a set of contradictions and evasions and er... moods. Not because he's messed up and violent. I mean... just because I love someone doesn't mean it has to be because of their moral/ethical system, does it? And just because I love a pairing doesn't have to be because they represent an ethical stance in my head, does it? Ok, good.
I tend to want goodness (happiness) to come from dark painful things. It's unrealistic but I'm obsessed. I want Spike to be happy and fulfilled. I don't care how boring that is-- I don't care how unlikely it is-- I don't care who does or doesn't believe it with me. I think -everyone- should try to be the most complete, fulfilled self they can be, because otherwise they won't enjoy life as much as they can. Everyone can be happy, in theory, with who they are.
This is also related to me not grokking the whole "character torture" thing where people like to emotionally hurt their favorite characters. Maybe I just think of them as -real- too much. And. And, I take things too seriously. Yes~:)
~~
1. Go into your LJ's archives.
2. Find your 23rd post (or closest to).
3. Find the fifth sentence (or closest to).
4. Post the text of the sentence in your blog along with these instructions.
i'm all buzzy and wired now.
(I think) Slytherin House sucks. Or, let me rephrase that. It does not, under any circumstance, deserve admiration, except on a per-individual basis. Same could be said for almost -any- group.
...Gryffindor & Hufflepuff & Ravenclaw aren't much better. But Slytherin sucks worst, because-- well-- playing nicely with others isn't my idea of a Chief Virtue or anything (I hardly do), but. Making some sort of ideal out of being manipulative? That's just lame.
Maybe it's just... all right, I'll just say it... I don't think ambition or cunning are admirable qualities. That's... that's just all there is to it. I can never -admire- Slytherinness -because- it's so "Slytherin". I mean... being underhanded and manipulative and self-centered (one for one and all for one) or whatever-- what's so cool about that? That's your basic Scrooge mentality, man, like the way Victorian factory owners were supposed to think, employing homeless little boys to work 20-hour days in their clothing factories or whatever, no?
I'm oh-so-tired of people feeling sympathy for the underdog to the extent that they let their contrary nature overwhelm their sense of... I dunno... goodness. Just because "0" isn't quite right, doesn't mean "1" is the answer, does it? Binary systems. They annoy me :>
It's like the way so many people assume they must support the Democrats if they hate what the Republicans are doing. Jeez. The way people assume if I'm not one way, I'm the other all the time, in so many different ways, when they're all bad choices, when everything's corrupt. Every human group-- let's face it, it's corrupt. It gets to me, that's all. People not -thinking- about things in theory, only choosing to support the opposite from the option that annoys them, instead of reforming the option most deserving of support. Bleh!
Do all the go-go-Slytherin people seriously think that's the "best" idea for a House, somehow? Do people seriously think Houses in general are a good idea? Do they seriously think these ideals they stand for mean -anything- without the others?! Isn't it obvious they're all supposed to work in concert? Why god, WHY do people always choose sides?! WHY? (Okay I know why, but it's still frustrating.)
I mean... just because people think Harry is wrong in his behavior towards Draco or whatever (and he is, but he's understandable) doesn't mean Draco is a w00bie, does it? Just because a character is understandable or likable doesn't mean he's not a bastard, does it?
So, I mean. I love Draco, for instance, and not even -in spite- of the whole Slytherin issue-- I think it's a part of him, obviously, and it's not necessarily a bad thing. Necessarily. Just like Harry's a Gryffindor/Slytherin mix, and that's neither a good or a bad thing, necessarily, though the Slytherin ideals/virtues require much more fortitude and caution to use well. Gryffindor & Slytherin are different sides of the same coin, as Harry himself demonstrates, doesn't he? Isn't that part of the whole -point- of Harry's characterization, and thus, by extension, the HP books in general? So how can there be this rift in fan alliance between the two Houses?
I can't stand it when people are all woo-woo-Slytherin. It makes me all... disturbed and creeped out, because if people seriously think ambition and ruthless cunning are the main qualities to strive for in life, they've got... issues. Of course, by extension, I suppose all of the American (and Japanese) capitalist system is built around those things to a large extent, so. No surprise, eh? Every man for himself, all that. Great. Must we applaud it?? Must we? DUDE! *stews*
I also hate it when people take the opposite view and are blindly pro-Gryffindor, 'cause I mean... who the hell cares about bravery and righteousness? Where's the understanding and mercy here? How could we trust any school-age child to know what "justice" is? What the hell? Are we seriously supposed to believe that everyone in Gryffindor either knows what bravery is or cares about these ideals? (Of course not, it's just what they want to see themselves as the most.) Or that all the clear idiots in Slytherin would even know cunning if it bit them on the ass?
...On the other hand, okay, maybe the fans (and some of the actual Slytherins) choose to cast their lot with that House 'cause they don't feel "good". (Though, how silly is it to associate oneself with fictional Houses, anyway?) Like, it's a low self-esteem problem that turns into "We're Here and We're Weird"... you know... except not. I love the idea of Slytherin House as having self-esteem issues while Gryffindors are the cocky ones and the Hufflepuffs are the shy/meek ones and the Ravenclaws are the stand-offish ones. Ha!
Feel my Hufflepuff rage, man. Feel it :D
~~
I think this is slightly related to all the people who love Spike (I was gonna say 'like Spike', but... no) because he's "evil" (aka the Big Bad). Also, y'know, the people who like Draco 'cause he's... well... Slytherin. I love Spike, too, but it's because he's Spike-- a set of contradictions and evasions and er... moods. Not because he's messed up and violent. I mean... just because I love someone doesn't mean it has to be because of their moral/ethical system, does it? And just because I love a pairing doesn't have to be because they represent an ethical stance in my head, does it? Ok, good.
I tend to want goodness (happiness) to come from dark painful things. It's unrealistic but I'm obsessed. I want Spike to be happy and fulfilled. I don't care how boring that is-- I don't care how unlikely it is-- I don't care who does or doesn't believe it with me. I think -everyone- should try to be the most complete, fulfilled self they can be, because otherwise they won't enjoy life as much as they can. Everyone can be happy, in theory, with who they are.
This is also related to me not grokking the whole "character torture" thing where people like to emotionally hurt their favorite characters. Maybe I just think of them as -real- too much. And. And, I take things too seriously. Yes~:)
~~
1. Go into your LJ's archives.
2. Find your 23rd post (or closest to).
3. Find the fifth sentence (or closest to).
4. Post the text of the sentence in your blog along with these instructions.
i'm all buzzy and wired now.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2004-05-14 03:21 pm (UTC)btw, this is what i meant in a previous discussion, how every liking has to be accompanied by disliking another character. which i can´t stand.
no subject
Date: 2004-05-14 03:52 pm (UTC)Then again, the pro-Draco-means-anti-Ron or whatever thing steps on my toes also. Makes me feel all hemmed in and stuff. *tries to hide fanatic gleam in eye* :>
no subject
Date: 2004-05-14 03:58 pm (UTC)exactly. and as i said, without being a fangirl of any of them, the pro-snape = anti-sirius and vice versa just makes me gloomy. i finally read "iyap" (part of the reason) and while there is a balance, i can see its offspring everywhere, and am heartily sick of it. i am such a
bad antinon-fangirl-or-whatever *sigh**sees fanatic gleam* hemmed in? try coughing, and then tell me what you are up to.
excuse me for repeating myself - maybe it was in another lj anyway - but i think only canon manages a balance. that´s why book 3 (and 5 for snapists) were so satisfying, seeing it all from a different pov all of a sudden, with new ideas, from both sides of both sides.
no subject
Date: 2004-05-14 04:06 pm (UTC)Yes, see... well... anti-Ron people really frustrate me 'cause I love Ron and he's, you know, the prototypical Gryffindor and while he's snappish and often utterly -wrong-, his heart's in the right place and he's really a hero, y'know, maybe even moreso than Harry. He's so straightforward, so self-sacrificing, so.... *weeps*
Weasley is my King :D Ahem.
And so, by extension, I appreciate the Gryffindor virtues he kinda represents, y'know? He's a genuinely good guy, though feckless and quick to judge, not very thoughtful (WHY HE NEEDS HERMIONE!!)... um. He has his ambitions, of course, his dreams for himself, but he's the sort of person who puts his friends first when it counts, and is -there- for the people that need him and is just... a w00bie. *biased*
Though admittedly, I don't love Neville and a lot of people are anti-Neville-pro-Draco, y'know. It's just that I don't -hate- Neville. He's just boring~:)
Oh yes, I loved book 5 'cause everyone got to be bad :D I love seeing these paper castles get destroyed-- I think one is stronger for it. No one is really perfect in the real world, of course, and... really, it's what's your heart that counts. I think. Though we all make mistakes, etc~:)
weasley is your king! and potter stinks! now cough slugs.
Date: 2004-05-14 04:21 pm (UTC)second: only choosing to support the opposite from the option that annoys them, instead of reforming the option most deserving of support
what if there is no other option! as in your elections, you have two dickheads or the option not to vote at all. and re. the four houses, in your last paragraph you explain it best anyway, and counter point your whole rant! "we´re here, we´re weird! we´re not cocky or meek or intellectual" *g* and then you go and wave the hufflepuff flag, tsk, makes the rant a liiiittle less ... ranty *lol*
third: yes, the others are the bigger heros, as they have lesser powers and still fight. as rowling showed with neville. you ron-minion you!
but we know. you know. genuine good is boring. i keep thinking of how terry pratchett makes that a theme with captain carrot. ron is even better than neville, so he might be considered even more boring! by that equation. that´s what ff is for, but it does not have to rely on slagging off other characters just to achieve this goal.
why would you oppose neville to draco? 0.o *sigh* that seems to be the whole passive (feminine) versus aggressive (masculine) issue - the reason why i had fled to slash *shakes head*.
was it in this thread that you mentioned ...goth!slytherin being as wrong as the evil!slytherin shorthand? i really am tired.
exactly. the badness was the best part. it was frustrating to see how nobody told harry off (split infinitive?), but also indicative of things to come. and seeing his father as a callous youth was a biggie. let´s hope rowling has the guts to go further (but how can she, if the books are supposed to be for kids in the future, you can´t forbid a kid to read parts 6-8!).
"what´s your heart that counts" - *lol* - spoken like your king!
Re: weasley is your king! and potter stinks! now cough slugs.
Date: 2004-05-14 04:55 pm (UTC)I know that binary choices are what's handed to us, but I'm stubborn and think we should forget another choice whether there seemingly isn't one. Create a new paradigm. Fight the power! Etc~:)
Re: weasley is your king! and potter stinks! now cough slugs.
Date: 2004-05-15 04:16 am (UTC)just to get it out into the open: i do not much like ron/xander.
i don´t feel "jealous" of harry, have no problem "understanding" him, but as what you said echos with "iyap" again i have to say that what annoys me is the stressing of how "difficult" he´s got it, not how "(un)lucky" he is. it´s no so much the difficulty "identifying" as my dislike of one person being singled out as having it worst. just as when diana spencer died, and the news only mentioned in passing how many thousand people were killed in mudslides in asia the same week. is that understandable?
i have hopes that - as with buffy, the girl - i will start liking/identifying more from part 6 onwards ...
am i flogging a dead horse?
why would you oppose neville to draco? 0.o *sigh* that seems to be the whole passive (feminine) versus aggressive (masculine) issue - the reason why i had fled to slash *shakes head*.
was it in this thread that you mentioned ...goth!slytherin being as wrong as the evil!slytherin shorthand?
*nods*
do not accept what you can´t change / change what you cannot accept
and if not in rl,then we can at least try in fiction.
Re: weasley is your king! and potter stinks! now cough slugs.
Date: 2004-05-15 03:35 pm (UTC)I think Neville's... er... nicer, not just more feminine or whatever, in people's eyes. He's... pretty much the opposite of Draco in temperament, which is why it really startles me when people stop writing H/D to write Harry/Neville, ahahah. I don't think he's feminine, he's just more obvious about being a loser, y'know, someone who can't do anything right. He has very little force of personality, I suppose, very little -fire-, which is what defines Draco for me. People feel sorry for him in a different way than they do for Draco. Maybe they have different ideas of what deserves sympathy, I dunno. I'm not a Neville sympathizer, so~:)
fire and ice: draco vs. neville??
Date: 2004-05-15 03:52 pm (UTC)when we talk about fire in draco, it seems we veer from the books again, and into wishful fandom. not that "my" draco isn´t, but i would not confuse the ... gah, why do you come online at such awful hours, when i can´t think straight?! what was the medieval term for temperaments? those fluids?! ... would not confuse the fire with bile. *note: look this up
tomorrowafter some sleep*people exchange d for n in their hp slash?!
weirdnessfashion i guess.ha, and you are a fashion victim *lol*
the four humours
Date: 2004-05-15 04:07 pm (UTC)You're Melancholy! You are ruled by the Black Bile
(which, by the way, doesn't exist). As a
Melancholy, you are gifted, analytical,
aesthetic, self-sacrificing, industrious, and
self-disciplined. Unfortunately, you can also
be moody, touchy, a
bit too theoretical, unsociable, critical, or
negative at times.
(http://quizilla.com/users/nyssa/quizzes/Which%20of%20the%20four%20Humours%20are%20you%3F/)
Re: fire and ice: draco vs. neville??
Date: 2004-05-15 04:08 pm (UTC)Anyway, Neville's the might-have-been or whatever, but that's a laugh 'cause only Harry is Harry, no one else could be Harry~:) He's a person not a... product of prophecy or whatever. They're not -that- alike. In my head. And while I like Neville better, he'll never have the force of personality I like most :>
Hmm... fire vs. bile, eh. Hmmmm. Possibly, yes. I assume he's like a salamander spirit in medieval terms (do I even know what I'm talking about? Noooo...). Or maybe Harry's more fire & Draco's more bile & that's why they're oil-and-water-like, eheheh. Even so, Draco's so -alive-, that's fire right there~:)
humour me
Date: 2004-05-15 04:18 pm (UTC)no, i did not mean neville and harry are alike. they are not at all. as you said, that´s more tom and harry, as regards choices.
there is no fire in the 4 humours, but there is a (forced) correspondence between the four elements and the four humours (although some teachings list five). but do you think canon!draco is on fire and alive then? and do i know what i am still talking about? same answer ...
as you saw, i not only found the name but also a humours quiz. the term was too simple for me too remember *shakes head*
no subject
Date: 2004-05-15 01:17 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-05-15 02:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-05-16 11:17 am (UTC)