~~ wherein Reena rails against Slytherin. again.

[reenka]

That's it, I've snapped (...again). I... I have to come up with actual -reasons- now for why I don't think that the way to rebel against a fictional school's House system is to decide the "ambitious, cunning" house is All That. So okay, I'll say it.

(I think) Slytherin House sucks. Or, let me rephrase that. It does not, under any circumstance, deserve admiration, except on a per-individual basis. Same could be said for almost -any- group.

...Gryffindor & Hufflepuff & Ravenclaw aren't much better. But Slytherin sucks worst, because-- well-- playing nicely with others isn't my idea of a Chief Virtue or anything (I hardly do), but. Making some sort of ideal out of being manipulative? That's just lame.


Maybe it's just... all right, I'll just say it... I don't think ambition or cunning are admirable qualities. That's... that's just all there is to it. I can never -admire- Slytherinness -because- it's so "Slytherin". I mean... being underhanded and manipulative and self-centered (one for one and all for one) or whatever-- what's so cool about that? That's your basic Scrooge mentality, man, like the way Victorian factory owners were supposed to think, employing homeless little boys to work 20-hour days in their clothing factories or whatever, no?

I'm oh-so-tired of people feeling sympathy for the underdog to the extent that they let their contrary nature overwhelm their sense of... I dunno... goodness. Just because "0" isn't quite right, doesn't mean "1" is the answer, does it? Binary systems. They annoy me :>

It's like the way so many people assume they must support the Democrats if they hate what the Republicans are doing. Jeez. The way people assume if I'm not one way, I'm the other all the time, in so many different ways, when they're all bad choices, when everything's corrupt. Every human group-- let's face it, it's corrupt. It gets to me, that's all. People not -thinking- about things in theory, only choosing to support the opposite from the option that annoys them, instead of reforming the option most deserving of support. Bleh!

Do all the go-go-Slytherin people seriously think that's the "best" idea for a House, somehow? Do people seriously think Houses in general are a good idea? Do they seriously think these ideals they stand for mean -anything- without the others?! Isn't it obvious they're all supposed to work in concert? Why god, WHY do people always choose sides?! WHY? (Okay I know why, but it's still frustrating.)

I mean... just because people think Harry is wrong in his behavior towards Draco or whatever (and he is, but he's understandable) doesn't mean Draco is a w00bie, does it? Just because a character is understandable or likable doesn't mean he's not a bastard, does it?

So, I mean. I love Draco, for instance, and not even -in spite- of the whole Slytherin issue-- I think it's a part of him, obviously, and it's not necessarily a bad thing. Necessarily. Just like Harry's a Gryffindor/Slytherin mix, and that's neither a good or a bad thing, necessarily, though the Slytherin ideals/virtues require much more fortitude and caution to use well. Gryffindor & Slytherin are different sides of the same coin, as Harry himself demonstrates, doesn't he? Isn't that part of the whole -point- of Harry's characterization, and thus, by extension, the HP books in general? So how can there be this rift in fan alliance between the two Houses?

I can't stand it when people are all woo-woo-Slytherin. It makes me all... disturbed and creeped out, because if people seriously think ambition and ruthless cunning are the main qualities to strive for in life, they've got... issues. Of course, by extension, I suppose all of the American (and Japanese) capitalist system is built around those things to a large extent, so. No surprise, eh? Every man for himself, all that. Great. Must we applaud it?? Must we? DUDE! *stews*

I also hate it when people take the opposite view and are blindly pro-Gryffindor, 'cause I mean... who the hell cares about bravery and righteousness? Where's the understanding and mercy here? How could we trust any school-age child to know what "justice" is? What the hell? Are we seriously supposed to believe that everyone in Gryffindor either knows what bravery is or cares about these ideals? (Of course not, it's just what they want to see themselves as the most.) Or that all the clear idiots in Slytherin would even know cunning if it bit them on the ass?

...On the other hand, okay, maybe the fans (and some of the actual Slytherins) choose to cast their lot with that House 'cause they don't feel "good". (Though, how silly is it to associate oneself with fictional Houses, anyway?) Like, it's a low self-esteem problem that turns into "We're Here and We're Weird"... you know... except not. I love the idea of Slytherin House as having self-esteem issues while Gryffindors are the cocky ones and the Hufflepuffs are the shy/meek ones and the Ravenclaws are the stand-offish ones. Ha!

Feel my Hufflepuff rage, man. Feel it :D
~~

I think this is slightly related to all the people who love Spike (I was gonna say 'like Spike', but... no) because he's "evil" (aka the Big Bad). Also, y'know, the people who like Draco 'cause he's... well... Slytherin. I love Spike, too, but it's because he's Spike-- a set of contradictions and evasions and er... moods. Not because he's messed up and violent. I mean... just because I love someone doesn't mean it has to be because of their moral/ethical system, does it? And just because I love a pairing doesn't have to be because they represent an ethical stance in my head, does it? Ok, good.

I tend to want goodness (happiness) to come from dark painful things. It's unrealistic but I'm obsessed. I want Spike to be happy and fulfilled. I don't care how boring that is-- I don't care how unlikely it is-- I don't care who does or doesn't believe it with me. I think -everyone- should try to be the most complete, fulfilled self they can be, because otherwise they won't enjoy life as much as they can. Everyone can be happy, in theory, with who they are.

This is also related to me not grokking the whole "character torture" thing where people like to emotionally hurt their favorite characters. Maybe I just think of them as -real- too much. And. And, I take things too seriously. Yes~:)
~~


1. Go into your LJ's archives.
2. Find your 23rd post (or closest to).
3. Find the fifth sentence (or closest to).
4. Post the text of the sentence in your blog along with these instructions.

i'm all buzzy and wired now.

Comments

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

you really are upset - i never noticed any typos in your posts before.

btw, this is what i meant in a previous discussion, how every liking has to be accompanied by disliking another character. which i can´t stand.

[mhari.livejournal.com]

I can't stand it when people are all woo-woo-Slytherin. It makes me all... disturbed and creeped out, because if people seriously think ambition and ruthless cunning are the main qualities to strive for in life, they've got... issues.

YES.

Rah, hello, I don't think they're as uniformly scummy as they come off in the books, but still! I mean, it is possible to be a good person and be terrifically devious. But you know, if you don't like JKR using Slytherin as shorthand for "EVOL", and I can see why you wouldn't, because that's stupid-- the answer is not to turn around and use it as shorthand for "goth and badass", because that's also stupid and you don't even have the excuse of making it up in the first place. :P

*waves token Ravenclaw flag* Personally I think it's better even to be an obsessive intellectual than a selfish, manipulative asshole, but that's just me ;)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Ehehe... typos? Where, where? *runs it through spell-check again* I can't seeeee...! But yes, er. I dunno, for some reason the pro-Slytherin thing just steps on my toes :>

Then again, the pro-Draco-means-anti-Ron or whatever thing steps on my toes also. Makes me feel all hemmed in and stuff. *tries to hide fanatic gleam in eye* :>

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Ahahah I dunno since when are goths supposed to be cunning, either, ahahahahah. Like, why is "evil" associated with "cool-looking and smooth and romantically sensitive", anyway? It's wacky! Maybe it's like, if you're selfish and manipulative, you must have Hidden Pain and a Difficult Life, ahahahahahah.

Also, of course, people self-project their poor self-image or whatever, but that's just sad. So they don't feel popular thus they don't feel Gryffindor.
Maybe Slytherin gets all the kids with the bad self-esteem, I dunno, ahahah. It would be funny~:)

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

did you maybe repost it already? i can go and look, i just noticed because you are always so neat.

exactly. and as i said, without being a fangirl of any of them, the pro-snape = anti-sirius and vice versa just makes me gloomy. i finally read "iyap" (part of the reason) and while there is a balance, i can see its offspring everywhere, and am heartily sick of it. i am such a bad anti non-fangirl-or-whatever *sigh*

*sees fanatic gleam* hemmed in? try coughing, and then tell me what you are up to.


excuse me for repeating myself - maybe it was in another lj anyway - but i think only canon manages a balance. that´s why book 3 (and 5 for snapists) were so satisfying, seeing it all from a different pov all of a sudden, with new ideas, from both sides of both sides.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Well, no, I didn't do anything to the post, I just can't find any typos. *paranoid*

Yes, see... well... anti-Ron people really frustrate me 'cause I love Ron and he's, you know, the prototypical Gryffindor and while he's snappish and often utterly -wrong-, his heart's in the right place and he's really a hero, y'know, maybe even moreso than Harry. He's so straightforward, so self-sacrificing, so.... *weeps*

Weasley is my King :D Ahem.

And so, by extension, I appreciate the Gryffindor virtues he kinda represents, y'know? He's a genuinely good guy, though feckless and quick to judge, not very thoughtful (WHY HE NEEDS HERMIONE!!)... um. He has his ambitions, of course, his dreams for himself, but he's the sort of person who puts his friends first when it counts, and is -there- for the people that need him and is just... a w00bie. *biased*

Though admittedly, I don't love Neville and a lot of people are anti-Neville-pro-Draco, y'know. It's just that I don't -hate- Neville. He's just boring~:)

Oh yes, I loved book 5 'cause everyone got to be bad :D I love seeing these paper castles get destroyed-- I think one is stronger for it. No one is really perfect in the real world, of course, and... really, it's what's your heart that counts. I think. Though we all make mistakes, etc~:)

weasley is your king! and potter stinks! now cough slugs.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

ok, first things first: i am vewy vewy tiwed. i did found out what i had really meant to say: your sentence structure and grammar was heavily tainted by your feelings this time. there are no typos. sorry for the worry!

second: only choosing to support the opposite from the option that annoys them, instead of reforming the option most deserving of support
what if there is no other option! as in your elections, you have two dickheads or the option not to vote at all. and re. the four houses, in your last paragraph you explain it best anyway, and counter point your whole rant! "we´re here, we´re weird! we´re not cocky or meek or intellectual" *g* and then you go and wave the hufflepuff flag, tsk, makes the rant a liiiittle less ... ranty *lol*

third: yes, the others are the bigger heros, as they have lesser powers and still fight. as rowling showed with neville. you ron-minion you!

but we know. you know. genuine good is boring. i keep thinking of how terry pratchett makes that a theme with captain carrot. ron is even better than neville, so he might be considered even more boring! by that equation. that´s what ff is for, but it does not have to rely on slagging off other characters just to achieve this goal.

why would you oppose neville to draco? 0.o *sigh* that seems to be the whole passive (feminine) versus aggressive (masculine) issue - the reason why i had fled to slash *shakes head*.

was it in this thread that you mentioned ...goth!slytherin being as wrong as the evil!slytherin shorthand? i really am tired.

exactly. the badness was the best part. it was frustrating to see how nobody told harry off (split infinitive?), but also indicative of things to come. and seeing his father as a callous youth was a biggie. let´s hope rowling has the guts to go further (but how can she, if the books are supposed to be for kids in the future, you can´t forbid a kid to read parts 6-8!).

"what´s your heart that counts" - *lol* - spoken like your king!

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

no fucking fair.
you went and added spike.
i wanted him to be happy so badly, it hurt.
but i did not like him because of his coat. and i hated him in "all the pretty girls" and the like (ff novel).

and i am pissy coz no fair that adding *huffs off to bed*

ps: it´s the hair. otherwise they would not say it.

pps: although draco is to harry as spike is to buffy.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

*meeps* Well... heheh... Spike is prolly cooler/more developed than Draco. There was more canon attention on him, so it's hard to entirely equate them. But yeah, Buffy & Harry have remarkably similar issues, man~:) Maybe it's a hero thing.

And omg, Xander is Teh Ron! hee :D
I always wanted Buffy with Spike partly because -Spike- wanted it so much and I think they -can- be good for each other, and if I didn't think so, I wouldn't ship them. Drusilla is -not- Good For Spike, therefore the people who ship them are being bad to my ickle Spike and I must RAGE :D

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

*waves Ravenclaw flag with you*

I don't even get where the idea of Slytherins being weird and goth comes from anyway. None of them are weird in that way. I mean, they're weird like Draco is weird, but Draco's not intentionally weird.

The way they're presented they're supposed to be sort of the rich elite only in an alternate universe where that means nothing and nobody wants to be friends with them. Anyway, so Pansy goes around with a group of girls and talks about people's looks and she giggles and she holds Draco's arm when they go to the ball and wears floaty pink ruffles that are probably expensive. And Draco has shiny blond hair and wears a uniform and goes to the ball in the equivalent of a designer suit only it's for a 14-year-old so he doesn't look like James Bond. And they all probably grew up playing the Muggle equivalent of tennis at Country Clubs and went sailing and took ballroom dancing lessons.

Let's make this clear: If they went to your school, they wouldn't be the goths. They wouldn't be the misfits. They'd be the kids driving the nice cars, living in big houses and wearing very expensive clothes.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

*cracks up* Omg, I'm having this really wrong vision of an AU story where Draco's all into gangsta rap and likes to, y'know, live it up with the "other side" Saturday nights, y'know, and he meets Harry who's like... I dunno... collecting Dudley for the Dursleys at some kinda wacked-out club hang-out (where they play pool, ahahah).

And Pansy's like, trying to hit on Harry the whole time, and Draoc's all disgusted and like, she won't leave Harry along so Draco gets all resentful and Harry hates Draco anyway, 'cause who does he think he is? So Draco finds excuses to go out his way (since they're in different schools) to come and taunt him, while Pansy tries (unsuccesfully) to offer to sort of "sympathy" and she says Harry should sleep with her 'cause Draco will beat him up whether he does or not :D

And he's like, "BUT I DON'T WANT YOU!!"
And she'd be like, "Oh, don't be -silly-, Potter, of course you do," and she'd smile that wide lip-sticky smile.
And Harry would yell, "WELL, I CAN'T, ALL RIGHT, I CAN'T BECAUSE I'M BLOODY QUEER!!!1"

...And of course Draco would hear and......


... :D

Re: weasley is your king! and potter stinks! now cough slugs.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm... er... I'm more of a Harry-minion than a Ron-minion, ahahah. Kinda sad, but :> Yes, see, I know that the others have lesser powers and stuff, but the reason I think Harry's a hero is because he has -himself- to fight, regardless of being luckier or stronger or even unluckier than anyone (which I think he might be). Some people have a hard time identifying with main characters, I guess, 'cause they "have it all", all the attention (and they don't), whereas... I don't. I have enough of an ego, I guess, not to feel jealous of Harry somehow. I don't think he's so lucky, and I do think most people just don't understand him.

I know that binary choices are what's handed to us, but I'm stubborn and think we should forget another choice whether there seemingly isn't one. Create a new paradigm. Fight the power! Etc~:)

[candytaiyo.livejournal.com]

If you write that, I may just have to give you my soul. Or whatever else you want for it. That is just brilliant.

o.0

[t-winkle725.livejournal.com]

Feel my Hufflepuff rage, man. :D

But seriously, without Hufflepuff there wouldn't *be* a fandom, just a big messy flamewar between wannabe Ravenclaws, Gryffindors and Slytherins...no-one would bother with cut-tags or disclaimers or Warnings and we would all get shut down and sued in no time at all...in other words, I get sick of the Woooooo! Slytherin! thing sometimes, too...

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Ahahah. We are the glue of it all. *revels in sekrit powah*

...*hypocrite* :D :D

[mhari.livejournal.com]

Maybe Slytherin gets all the kids with the bad self-esteem, I dunno, ahahah.

*giggles*

Though that doesn't explain Neville, then...

[mhari.livejournal.com]

I don't even get where the idea of Slytherins being weird and goth comes from anyway.

I expect it's watered down through the average 13-year-old brain: Evil --> Dark --> Goth --> Misunderstood Poetic Tortured Soul!!!1

Which is the same kind of logic that says a broken nail is a character flaw, so.

Let's make this clear: If they went to your school, they wouldn't be the goths. They wouldn't be the misfits. They'd be the kids driving the nice cars, living in big houses and wearing very expensive clothes.

Heh. Maybe that's the appeal.

[lestrange.livejournal.com]

LIEK OMG WRITE THAT PLZ!!!111!!!!!!!!!!!!!



No, seriously, that would make such a cool AU. :D

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Dude, you're forgetting Neville's sekrit Inner Fortitude and Hidden Strength, here :D He Endures Unspeakable Trials and comes through when it's truly needed. Or something. I dunno, I think he doesn't -think- and wonder whether he can do something or not (though I'm sure lots of people have told him he can't do this-and-that-and-the-other-thing)-- it's like, he takes it for granted, he doesn't brood on it. (Neville doesn't seem broody). So when he has to shine or whatever, he can... er... surprise even himself. Or especially himself. I think Neville knows Neville least of all.

OMG I CANNOT BELIEVE I AM SITTING HERE TALKING ABOUT NEVILLE >:O
heh :>

[mhari.livejournal.com]

Dude, you're forgetting Neville's sekrit Inner Fortitude and Hidden Strength, here :D

Naw, I <3 Neville. But you were talking low self-esteem, and he's got that all right, although it's improving. *pets him*

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Heheh It's just... I've never had the chance to ponder my inner Neville before. Y'know how like, some people with low self-esteem let it stop them 'cause they really believe they -can't- do things? So even if they do things well, it wouldn't matter, 'cause it'd never be enough? I guess I feel like Neville wouldn't be the type to disparage himself (too) or feel the need to be defensive (like Draco is). Lack of defensiveness, that's it. It's like he's not ambitious enough for the insecurity to stop him, or something. Heh.

[subtle-knife.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry to bother you, but I just have to express my total love for your icon, it's so beautiful. :)

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

*lol* i had to go and look which one you mean, and i´m still not quite sure. usually people are fascinated by jason isaacs´s tongue, and i feel like someone going walkies with a cute dog to get people´s attention. but it seems you replied to the "i am always inbetween" one? if you are - that is my favourite, and i love it. it´s craig kelly in it.

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

*waves Slyther-claw flag! Is there no room for the indecisive?!* ;)

Except the problem with the way they're presented means they would be the rich popular kids; as long as they weren't more rich and popular than the 'Real' stars.
Because Harry's a rich jock. Hermione seems to be middle-class, Ron working-class; but they're both prefects, Ron a jock; all three being *extremely* popular.
So there's a huge inconsistency with the Slytherin's image.
They're the bullies; but they always lose, rarely attack physically, are unpopular with three quarters of the school and all but one teachers (as far as we know).

I think: "Let's make this clear: If they went to your school, they wouldn't be the goths. They wouldn't be the misfits. They'd be the kids driving the nice cars, living in big houses and wearing very expensive clothes"; could actually apply to the Gryffindors excellently.

(Magpie...did we just...disagree?! *brain explodes*)

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

exactly.

exactly! i so wanted them for each other, because they were the first couple where i really thought "you are equals". no other couple was. i am interested in slash for what i used to think was equality (not in hp *sigh*). and spuffy meant so much too me that i never discussed it on any board, because, as you said, he wanted her and i wanted him to be happy, and i also started liking her when she came back from the dead, and i thought he could be good for her. and dru sure was not good for him. rage on.

ps: i agreed with marty in the end, that she did not let them get together at a time when they would have been bad for each other, because their relationship became much closer and deeper later on. and i wanted to slap bronzers for saying "they are both so thin, if they had kids you could not see them when they stood sideways", ggrrrrrr, because even physically i loved them (much better then big fat angel and tiny girly. uhm. i just wrote spangelus and make spike think angel should lose white ;P).