(grumpy again)

[reenka]

At first I thought that it's just that I'm closed-minded or something, 'cause even looking at fics with pairings that conflict with an OTP makes me sort of cringe and want to rail against the (stupid) pairing in question... but... it's just that most people, even when they write get-together fics, don't actually bother to try convincing the reader that these people -should- be together. I mean, there's a basic question there, isn't there? -Why-? Why should the reader want these people together? Why do all these (fanfic) writers assume that only shippers will read their fic? Or do they?

It occurs to me that maybe that's true, actually. Maybe most people write for a) an audience of people who just don't care about what pairing they read or b) an audience that is already sold on the pairing in question. Possibly, there's a third common type of fic-- as in, c) an audience of people who're crazed fans of one of the characters and will happily see them with anyone at all, no matter how "out of character" the pairing seems.

I don't know if a pairing -can- be OOC. Can it?

Plenty of people write characters to be OOC to the degree that I can't see these versions of these characters together, even if I normally ship them. In that case, I don't care whether I'm already "sold", the fic in question reverses that. I don't know if that's common, though. Do people often read fics with their OTP that make them stop rooting for it in that case? Happens to me all the time. I mean, I really think that once you give a character enough issues (narcissism, extreme depression, mania, psychosis, extreme immaturity, commitment issues, anxiety issues) it'd make a lot more sense to not write a successful romance there. As in, I doubt these versions would-- or should-- last past a month with anyone.

I don't know if most writers or readers -want- to always start from square one in terms of non-canon pairings, though I don't see how one could honestly get away with anything else in a good story, porn aside. I suppose one can't help but start with some assumptions... but taking huge unsubstantiated things for granted is just sheer laziness, isn't it? As in, well, of -course- Draco has always wanted to fuck Harry. Of course, yes. Naturally. Gah. Bad writer, no biscuit.

Comments

[emeraldstorms.livejournal.com]

Ah, something I have a say on.

I don't know if most writers or readers -want- to always start from square one in terms of non-canon pairings, though I don't see how one could honestly get away with anything else in a good story, porn aside. I suppose one can't help but start with some assumptions... but taking huge unsubstantiated things for granted is just sheer laziness, isn't it?

I find myself thinking about that too, actually. Like, for instance, my favorite pairing is Draco/Ginny. And while I like the comebacks and spats and general snarky humor that will always arise from the pairing, I do have a craving for angsty fics every once in a while. Which is to say, most fics that start from scratch - them hating eachother at first, for some reason ending up liking being with eachother, and so on - will usually have a certain amount of angst in it, because D/G fics tend to be more realistic when they start from the beginning. Like, short little oneshots usually have Romantic!Draco paired with either Smitten!Ginny or Fiery!Ginny, while those writers who make them 'meet' so to speak will have them more IC (not taking into effect what you said about OOCness).

Is this making any sense at all?

Here, there's two fics that pop instantly to mind when I'm thinking of D/G - one is You'll Be In My Heart, by ten miles til midnight, and it features Draco leaving Ginny for whatever reason. They kiss, the hug, she cries, he comforts... it's all very well and good and I myself was sort of basking in the warm glow of D/G. But there's also another one, Jewel of the Harem by Anise, which is a very long and well researched fic. And it starts them off from the beginning and she makes it *plausible*.

But being a D/G shipper I loved them both (but moreso the latter). I think that maybe once someone reads a fic that makes the pairing plausible, it can always seem plausible no matter what, IC or OOC characters. At least, that's how I feel.

Personally I like to start from the beginning when writing an unusual pairing, just to prove to myself that it can happen (Crimony is Draco/Luna tough to do. O_o). And sometimes I feel that people who don't make the pairing plausible are somehow butchering the characters because they aren't doing them justice, but on the whole I like all D/G fics. As long as their written decently that is.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I know what you mean. I do have a weakness for my OTP, and I'll usually enjoy any semi-well-written fic with them even if it's really unrealistic, though I'll enjoy a realistic fic a -lot- more. I guess I was really only coming up for a need to be convinced with the non-OTP fics... and I was wondering if people write fics -for- shippers. Like, am I not -supposed- to be sold? That was sort of my question, there.

That said... I mean, I do have my limits. If you portray the relationship as unhealthy or -totally- OOC, I will balk even with my OTP, though I give it much lee-way. There's only so much I will take-- and without the "OTP effect", naturally I'm even more picky. But anyway, yeah... proof is a lot more necessary with an unusual pairing. Then again, both Draco/Ginny and Harry/Draco are "unusual", depending on how you look at it, heheheh.

I definitely start thinking about that "justice" a lot more quickly than I used to, these days, mostly 'cause I've gotten old and jaded, heheh. I feel a bit insulted with fics that feed me shipper bullshit a lot of times. I mean, how much more plausible is Harry/Draco vs Harry/Filch, anyway? It's a tough call ;) ahahahah I can't believe I just said that -.-

[i-smile.livejournal.com]

I don't know if a pairing -can- be OOC. Can it?
To me, any pairing seems 'OOC' if we're not told why they got together. Or how, or when. (Even if it's set in the far future, we should be given a hint, right? I'm not asking for them to sit down and explain to one another their reasoning, just to show us something.) I don't know if this is necessarily what you're talking about, but it really jars me when I read, say, a H/D and the two are so close you'd think Draco was Ron--and there's no explanation, no "oh yeah this is how they got over this schoolyard enemies thing". Because, really, anything can be "in character" to me as long as I can see how he got there from the canon I know (or at least the bits I care about). I can see where Draco might always have wanted to fuck Harry, but--he's a kid (and kids are more likely to pass notes than come up and say "Let's have sex!"), he's been raised to hate people like Harry (and he doesn't seem to be the type to disobey his family lightly), he must have had some reason to be snotty every time they're together that I'd love the writer to explain in the context of his wanting Harry, and Harry's already rejected him (so even if Draco gets over his problems, we need Harry to say "Dude, you are sexy. Let's do it, then").

I mean, I really think that once you give a character enough issues... it'd make a lot more sense to not write a successful romance there. As in, I doubt these versions would-- or should-- last past a month with anyone.
I agree. And if they do last without major healing going on, it'll probably damage their emotional stability (further); there's a reason we call some relationships "unhealthy". Why would I want my favourite characters to get worse rather than better?

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Hmm, yes. You can develop any character to change them if they'd need to change in order to be in whatever pairing. I mean, most people don't really do this to my satisfaction, of course. Then again, I suppose I'm more stringent and expect to be convinced more thoroughly than most writers imagine necessary, maybe? After all, they're all doing it for fun, etc.

I'm not sure where my own resistance ends and sloppy writing begins, in a lot of cases. Especially when I'm not willing to go down easily, like... this is better illustrated outside of HP. In HP I've become sort of lax in terms of pairings, though I barely read anything but H/D, 'cause I've written a number of them. But like, in Gundam Wing, say-- I'm really resistant to Heero/Trowa. I can't see either of them initiating contact. They don't have an established friendship. There's no -reason- for them to hook up, basically, unless you studiously create one from scratch. And "scratch" isn't a concept most writers seem to comprehend. (*bitterness*)

So yes, the all-important "why". I think "why" is a question every writer should keep in mind when writing anything, of course. That and "how", "what if", "when" and "where", etcetc. And then you could always get to the point where the "why" is just too ridiculously small of a chance to go after. Like, suuuure, the aliens could have implanted a chip in the character's head to make him a masochistic gay penguin (or whatever), but....... heh.

[switchknife.livejournal.com]

Yes, I do believe that certain interpretations of pairings can be OOC. I'm not sure if a pairing can be OOC itself. I have read everything from Snape/Filch to Harry/Draco to Trelawney/Hermione, and in the hands of good authors I've found each one of those pairings believable.

Y'see, my attitude to a pairing in a story is that if the author writes convincingly, I'll read it. If they offer characterizations that are solid, that FEEL right and yet bring out aspects of these characters that allow them to get along as a couple without them feeling OOC, then that's okay. I know that each of us has different ideas about different canon characters--and while I do get bothered if someone totally contradicts what I believe about, say, Harry, I can still enjoy the story if the way the author writes CONVINCES me to see through their eyes for a while. Understand their vision of the character.

It all comes down to the writing for me.

Recently, I wrote a Macnair fic (http://aeristerra.com/switchknife/fiction/lovesmysteries.htm) that contained a bit of slash as well as het, and one of my reviewers said that she literally hit the back button when she arrived on the het, because her version of Macnair was ONLY into guys and she couldn't stand seeing him with women, even though she loved the writing of the story itself.

*shrugs*

Different strokes, as they say! In my case, I'd probably have kept on reading, but I can understand that each of us sees the canon characters differently.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's mostly my own appraisal also, though... I'm really a lot more unconvinced in fandoms where there aren't as many choices as there are in HP. Like... in HP there are tons of characters and a lot of holes in their characterization, so you can do a lot with them, right. But in some instances, canon can be quite specific on exactly who these people are, and there isn't as much lee-way, I guess. I didn't want to bring up other fandoms 'cause I guess people wouldn't be familiar with them, but I do think that HP is unique in the sheer number of semi-plausible possibilities. I don't think that's always the case. I think maybe theoretically, if enough about a character is "written in stone", so to speak, you could have them be simply incompatible with another character.

For instance, even in HP... while you -can- write a story that puts Hermione and Draco together, for instance, you can never write a story where it's easy for Draco, where he's "just attracted". The Mudblood thing is just such a huge stumbling block that it can't help but define their relationship. I think it's possible, maybe, that the -type- of relationship you put two characters in could be OOC. Like... they can "just fuck" but they can't finish each other's sentences and go bar-hopping together or... whatever.

And of course, yes, in the end it comes down to the writing being convincing, that's what I was initially saying. That I find most writers don't bother to convince me and seem to expect their readership to be shippers, maybe. I know I -can- be convinced, but that seems to be a rare gift. Most people write without their own passion and/or belief in the characters shining through, so fics seem limp to me. I mean, I don't think "good writing" merely means the language itself-- there's also the convictions and ideas behind it all. They have to be... worked for. I suppose my own idea of what constitutes "enough" work is just more extreme than a lot of other readers, is all :>

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

For instance, even in HP... while you -can- write a story that puts Hermione and Draco together, for instance, you can never write a story where it's easy for Draco, where he's "just attracted". The Mudblood thing is just such a huge stumbling block that it can't help but define their relationship.

I know this sounds ridiculous but...what if it can? I mean, I'm kind of fascinated by exactly why I get drawn to certain pairings while I don't want to see other ones, how I can deal with one character sleeping with a number of characters but never want to see another character with anyone but this one person.

There's plenty of stories where I don't believe the pairing or they've strayed so much from the characterizations I like that I don't want to read it--I mean strayed from whatever core thing I think lies at the heart of the character. I don't like fics where the dynamic makes one of the characters look stupid or whatever.

But otoh I'm pretty adept at just going with premises that should be ridiculous because it doesn't jar me for whatever reason. So my point is if we can believe somebody could write a fic that can make Draco and Hermione believeable, couldn't somebody write a fic where this wasn't the stumbling block in their relationship? I mean, either because the person just concentrates on different things or because in their mind this is the way it would work? I mean, if this person believed Draco's bark was worse than his bite on this issue and Hermione always just thought it was stupid?

I'm not saying this is how I'd see it, but can we really assume anything about a character that we know so little about? I mean, yeah, you could say that we don't know much about Malfoy but in pretty much every scene he's spouting racist rhetoric, but once you put in backstory anything goes. So how can any canon interpretation be set in stone?

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Well, see... that's why I'm so hesitant to really use examples from HP at all, 'cause I can't think of an entirely defensible example even though I'm sure there must be -something-, y'know, something silly and obvious like... well, if you write incest, you can't be like, "oh, Draco is in luuuurve with his father". 'Cause. Duuuuude. But that's just a stupid example that would show that I'm grasping for straws~:)

I don't know if you can ever say someone's characterization in canon is "cast in stone"... but there -are- central pillars, I think, hopefully, that define who they are. I mean, if there -aren't-, then... who are they, you know? In real life, it's hard to pin down who a person is regardless of circumstance (that is, they're usually one way in one situation and another way in another). But in fiction, people tend to be a lot more tractable 'cause we can trace their actual motivations better.

In HP, a lot of characters' motivations are either badly characterized or cliche or unknown and have to be inferred, 'cause it's so pov-centric, of course. And any story where something is told to you straight out is pretty much a bad story, anyway. But... hmm... well, yes, backstory. It's the difference between taking canon "as is" and adding backstory, basically giving the reader road-marks as to where you've taken this characterization off course.

It's not so much that I refuse to accept certain things, it's just that I refuse to take them as -givens-. And my idea of 'working for it' is possibly too strict if I'm not predisposed to the pairing. I mean, I give my OTP fics breaks I wouldn't give other pairings. In fact, I start off not -wanting- to buy those other fics. Which is where that whole "are the writers writing for shippers" thing came from. Maybe I'm just not -supposed- to like reading those fics, y'know?

We can assume -some- things, some small basic things. The less we assume, the better the fic is, I think. If the writer wants to set up the whole Mudblood relationship in Draco's head from scratch, more power to 'em!! I'd love that. On the other hand, if they -assume- that Draco just doesn't care and run with it... then I put on the major breaks, 'cause the most plausible things from canon make it obvious on a common sense level, basically.

I mean, that's all I want to see, really. Common sense. Maybe that just doesn't apply to pairings or why people write fic, I dunno.

Common sense says to me that... uh... lessee... Harry/Filch-Sirius-Remus-or-any-older-person, Draco/McGonnagal-etc, Draco/most-people-who-aren't-fellow-Slytherins-- are all iffy. Very iffy. The default setting on these pairings is "hahahah not in a million fucking years". So... I mean... that default... should be acknowledged, shouldn't it? As in, "plausibility: below 30%", I'd guess. I think H/D plausibility without major canon reworking is like... uh... 15% is generous. And I -love- that pairing with a burning love. But still!

It's not so much that it's written in stone as... "no" being the simpler solution. I suppose it's a semi-blind study of likelihoods based on incomplete data, where one looks for the overall most common pattern when specifics are unavailable. Like, the most common overall sexual behavior pattern for young males is heterosexual with homosocial tendencies, for instance. Unless you work to establish that the male deviates from the norm (thus supplementing canon), you can assume that the canon stance is at default. Or something. It's much less linear and more intuition-related than that of course, to me.

Like, while specific behaviors or thoughts may be in question, usually one has a -direction- for characters, a sort of... "pitch" you can expect for them to usually be. So even if Draco isn't as racist-obsessive as all that, he's still gonna act like it, or whatever, 'cause he's stubborn and rigid in behavior if nothing else. *sigh* People rail against stereotypes, but I think there's something to be said for "acting true to type", 'cause "type" is what saves you when you wobble on specifics in characterization, I guess. Type is what allows you to generalize and predict behavior, 'cause in the end, while people do change, I think they change predictably, I guess.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's the thing...even on something as obvious as the Pureblood issue we have no idea how the logic of it actually works in the Malfoy's heads so there's a lot of ways you can play it.

It's not so much that it's written in stone as... "no" being the simpler solution. I suppose it's a semi-blind study of likelihoods based on incomplete data, where one looks for the overall most common pattern when specifics are unavailable. Like, the most common overall sexual behavior pattern for young males is heterosexual with homosocial tendencies, for instance. Unless you work to establish that the male deviates from the norm (thus supplementing canon), you can assume that the canon stance is at default. Or something. It's much less linear and more intuition-related than that of course, to me.


Yeah, but then otoh, isn't fanfic all about "What ifs?" Like, would it be possible to do a version of Draco where the Malfoys were brought up with the attitudes of the Weasleys? Strictly speaking, it should be possible, because ones beliefs don't define ones personality completely. Presumably Draco could still be Draco, still maybe be snobbish or elitist, or brattish, only he wouldn't have the particular Mudblood angle. Or what if he were the poor one and Ron was rich? He might still be racist and elitist but scrappier and dressed in old clothes and bitter about that.

It's sort of...artichoke like, I guess. You peel away all these layers to get to the heart and you don't know when you've hit it until you take away something and it's just "not him" anymore. So like, for me, I could read a fic where Draco was poor and still Draco, but I might read another fic where he was rich, racist and snobby but he wouldn't be Draco because he was...I dunno...not a fighter.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Wehehe, well, I uh... don't think I can ever really pretend I know what makes someone "someone", of course. Maybe that's why examples suck? 'Cause unless I point to a specific instance where something happened and it wasn't Draco anymore... and even then, it could just have been a bad story. So I see how that gets difficult. See, in my mind, racism or whatever was never important in my conception of him anyway-- I've never really applied it. On the other hand, I was never in a situation where it was important. And while you can willfully avoid it somehow, see, you're kind of showing its importance by trying to eliminate it from play. Which is all I was saying-- the need for this acknowledgement.

I mean... eh, we agree, I think. It was just hard to rant about what I really wanted to, since it was in Gundam Wing and I don't know the canon enough to rant about that. Though... I still hate it when people are all buddy-buddy for no good reason and like, go up to each other after not being that close and going "hey, I'm bored and lonely, come live with me"(!!!!!1)
Yeah, that got my goat :>

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

!

[sarahtales.livejournal.com]

You know, it'd be funny to start with that in canon.
MARY SUE SLYTHERIN: So, hey, yo, Draco.
DRACO: MALFOY.
MSS: Suuure. So, anyway, we all know that you want to do Harry Potter...
DRACO: *FAINTS DEAD AWAY* *revives* I... what? Who? Who are these people who... DISGUSTING. OWL MY FATHER. *faints again*
GOYLE: I think you upset him.
DRACO: POTTER! Dirty, dirty, sick-minded girl!
MSS: Come on, you can't fool me, you raunchy bisexual Slytherins...
DRACO: WHO HERE IS BISEXUAL?
*silence*
DRACO: And if I was. Which I'm not. I'd never. Potter. Which I'm not. HE HAS A SCAR. Not that. Because I'm not. Who will kill this woman for me?
/ends random.

!!

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

*cracks up completely*

<333333!!!! oh man. you know, my mission in life should really be to feed you candy and possibly grapes :D :D
but really, candy. well, more than you're already having >:D

though actually, i wouldn't be surprised if he was all schizoid about it and slapped himself. ("I DON'T! YOU DO!! No! Yes! No! Shut up! AAARGH!!"... "Who're you talking to, Draco? I'm trying to sleep here...".... "IT'S ALL HIS FAULT!!!")

Also, I thought this (http://home.earthlink.net/~marshkin/dracoblue.jpg) was rather cute. And, well, this too (http://home.earthlink.net/~marshkin/hd01.jpg)~:)
>:D!

[fraught.livejournal.com]

I don't know if a pairing -can- be OOC. Can it?

A while ago I off-handedly posted in my journal about how I thought Snape/Harry (and Snape/Hermione as well) was OOC by definition. I got a bunch of comments saying that a good author would make me believe in those pairings. I disagreed with them then, and I still disagree with them now.

For me, Snape/Harry is too OOC to be believable. Period. It's something I've thought about for a long time. You (general you) can be the world's greatest writer, but you'll never make me believe Harry (Harry Potter) could fall in love/lust with Snape. I don't buy it; it completely contradicts the way I view canon Harry and canon Snape (and canon Hermione, whom I can't see with Snape either). So yeah, there are certain pairings that I find OOC -- but I'm sure those same pairings wouldn't be OOC for someone else ;).

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

See, see, that's the interesting part. I kinda instinctively know exactly where you're coming from... as a concept, I see how a pairing could feel OOC-- that is to say, antithetical to the way you conceive a character. What the people who say "the author can change that" are really saying is that the author can -change- how you perceive those characters & their motivations. And-- for you-- maybe they're too ingrained, while for other people, their concepts of these characters are much more fluid, you know what I mean?

The only pairings that you couldn't easily argue were OOC would be the heavily canon-supported ones, and even then some people say that Hermione doesn't like Ron "that way" or Ron doesn't like Hermione, so... I mean. Yeah. Plenty of people probably think Sirius/Remus is OOC 'cause clearly Sirius is a lot more hung up on James anyway, and he was never as close with Remus... or something.

I think, maybe, that "OOC" is the wrong term. Like... some pairings are just... very hard to swallow, very unlikely. I was saying in another comment that I'd give Harry/Snape (or Harry/any-adult) a plausibility percentage of below 30%. I even went to far as to give H/D a plausibility percentage of around 15%, just 'cause I'm masochistic I guess. But maybe that's a good way to think of it. Like... in the "real world", in more than 70% of all possible universes (so to speak), it wouldn't happen, no, of course not. Buuuut... theoretically... I guess... pretty much anything can happen under the right circumstances, even if those circumstances are -very- hard to come by, y'know?

For one thing, canon!Harry & canon!Snape would have to change in order for Harry/Snape to work-- and same goes for H/D to work. So... most people would agree that going by canon characterization, H/S doesn't work-- but then, H/D doesn't work either, and neither do any other slash pairings, really. Glass houses, man :>

[fraught.livejournal.com]

What the people who say "the author can change that" are really saying is that the author can -change- how you perceive those characters & their motivations. And-- for you-- maybe they're too ingrained, while for other people, their concepts of these characters are much more fluid, you know what I mean?

Yes, I know exactly what you mean. And while I have changed my mind about certain canon elements or pairings or whatever, I think my anti-Snape/Harry attitude is too ingrained to be changed (I won't say it won't ever change, because you never know what the future might bring). I should also mention that I don't like Snape as a character, either in canon or as someone to read about in fanfiction -- he reminds me too much of a horrible, biased teacher I had in school and I find his attitude towards his students bordering on the abusive. He hits all my WRONGWRONGWRONGHATEHATEHATE buttons and I don't think anyone but JKR herself could change that perception.

The only pairings that you couldn't easily argue were OOC would be the heavily canon-supported ones, and even then some people say that Hermione doesn't like Ron "that way" or Ron doesn't like Hermione, so...

I don't think R/Hr is OOC, I could make a case for it, I suppose, but I don't honestly see Hermione liking Ron back in canon *shrug*. I won't argue that Ron doesn't like Hermione, because he obviously does, but to me, Hermione is sending out clear signals that she knows and doesn't want to go there.

I mean. Yeah. Plenty of people probably think Sirius/Remus is OOC 'cause clearly Sirius is a lot more hung up on James anyway, and he was never as close with Remus... or something.

I get that POV, but I disagree with it :).

I was saying in another comment that I'd give Harry/Snape (or Harry/any-adult) a plausibility percentage of below 30%. I even went to far as to give H/D a plausibility percentage of around 15%, just 'cause I'm masochistic I guess.

At this point, I don't find either pairing very plausible, though I would give Harry/Draco a higher plausibility percentage. It also depends on when the fic is set, though, because OotP showed me a Harry who is mostly indifferent toward Draco, whereas before, he would actually be somewhat worried about what Draco might think of him. *Then* I could see H/D, but since he's barely a blimp on Harry's radar post-OotP, H/D strikes me now as more implausible than before (but still more plausible than Harry/Snape).

most people would agree that going by canon characterization, H/S doesn't work-- but then, H/D doesn't work either, and neither do any other slash pairings, really. Glass houses, man :>

True :). And I'm constantly struggling to reconcile my canon views with what I like to read in fanfiction, especially since I believe that canon Harry is straight, which makes all Harry-slash somewhat OOC for me :)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I guess I like Snape separate from any pairing or his interactions with anyone, simply because he's an interestingly complex personality with depth. He's a bastard and I wouldn't wanna be his best friend, but then, I wouldn't want to be Draco's best friend either, and I adore him. I tend to try to not put myself directly into the fictional universe, I guess. Things get messed up that way :> Heee. Also, everything I ever say about seeing things in canon is questionable to me, 'cause I tend to see the most blatantly obvious thing, which like... -never- means slash unless I'm looking and primed for it or it's -very- obvious. And if I've even -heard- of a pairing before I see canon, I'll question whether it's "really there", y'know. I suppose this can apply to any subtext, as slash automatically is. How can subtext be "canon", anyway? Etc.

I think "OOC" ends up being a way of saying "GODDAMN IT I HATE THIS PAIRING AND I WANT TO HAVE A REASON WHY", heheh. Like, I have this violent distaste for 1x3 in GW, right. I reeeeally wish I could say "okay, there's -no- way they're really even friends", but... I mean, oopsie, Heero's spent more time with Trowa (technically) than with any other pilot. So I'm like... erm.... stuck. It's hard to keep one's own biases out of the way one perceives a work, I guess. Like, enough people (or at least, in GW, this person (http://www.gundamwinganalysis.web1000.com/characteranal.htm)) just kind of say, "well, in canon X character has no sign of being 'a homosexual'" and that's that. It gets me pretty upset, but it's true that at base, it's not canonically valid to be like, "X character is gay" and "X character isn't gay". *sigh*

I guess I just think maybe applying canon to judge pairings is messy and possibly sort of a false form of lit-crit. I mean, in a way... it's just funny to imagine you could ever determine what's "secretly there" if the text doesn't tell you. If all that's there is "weird obsession"-- well, that's "weird obsession" not "actually in love". As soon as you take that leap of judgement, you're on your own, beyond canon, making up your own story to suit your emotional kinks, basically. Hopefully it's still in the same general area of fictional reality as the original, but not being the author... and I mean, even the author isn't necessarily the be-and-end-all-- the text is. Ugh, makes my head hurt :>

It really helps -me-, I guess, knowing things like that JKR obviously -intends- to have R/Hr more than she intends H/Hr, for instance, which seems to boggle her, actually. It's kind of... not that I care what her own analysis of her work is, it's just that it's a promise of future canon. In H/S and similar pairings, you -can't- rely on canon-intent because... well... not in a million years was that intended. So people kind of write their own adventure, so to speak. It's a way of relating to text that's... different, y'know?

I just wish they'd back it up, that's all. Most people are so lazy. I still maintain I've never read a fully backed-up H/D fic, and I've read a -lot- in that pairing. And by that I mean a -lot-. Then again, y'know, tough call. Prolly the hardest HP slash pairing to make plausible, and yet it's probably the only slash pairing for either Harry or Draco that's... uh... remotely "easy". Heh. Ahhh, I feel bad that I don't go for friendship-slash more ^^;