(grumpy again)

[reenka]

At first I thought that it's just that I'm closed-minded or something, 'cause even looking at fics with pairings that conflict with an OTP makes me sort of cringe and want to rail against the (stupid) pairing in question... but... it's just that most people, even when they write get-together fics, don't actually bother to try convincing the reader that these people -should- be together. I mean, there's a basic question there, isn't there? -Why-? Why should the reader want these people together? Why do all these (fanfic) writers assume that only shippers will read their fic? Or do they?

It occurs to me that maybe that's true, actually. Maybe most people write for a) an audience of people who just don't care about what pairing they read or b) an audience that is already sold on the pairing in question. Possibly, there's a third common type of fic-- as in, c) an audience of people who're crazed fans of one of the characters and will happily see them with anyone at all, no matter how "out of character" the pairing seems.

I don't know if a pairing -can- be OOC. Can it?

Plenty of people write characters to be OOC to the degree that I can't see these versions of these characters together, even if I normally ship them. In that case, I don't care whether I'm already "sold", the fic in question reverses that. I don't know if that's common, though. Do people often read fics with their OTP that make them stop rooting for it in that case? Happens to me all the time. I mean, I really think that once you give a character enough issues (narcissism, extreme depression, mania, psychosis, extreme immaturity, commitment issues, anxiety issues) it'd make a lot more sense to not write a successful romance there. As in, I doubt these versions would-- or should-- last past a month with anyone.

I don't know if most writers or readers -want- to always start from square one in terms of non-canon pairings, though I don't see how one could honestly get away with anything else in a good story, porn aside. I suppose one can't help but start with some assumptions... but taking huge unsubstantiated things for granted is just sheer laziness, isn't it? As in, well, of -course- Draco has always wanted to fuck Harry. Of course, yes. Naturally. Gah. Bad writer, no biscuit.

Comments

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

See, see, that's the interesting part. I kinda instinctively know exactly where you're coming from... as a concept, I see how a pairing could feel OOC-- that is to say, antithetical to the way you conceive a character. What the people who say "the author can change that" are really saying is that the author can -change- how you perceive those characters & their motivations. And-- for you-- maybe they're too ingrained, while for other people, their concepts of these characters are much more fluid, you know what I mean?

The only pairings that you couldn't easily argue were OOC would be the heavily canon-supported ones, and even then some people say that Hermione doesn't like Ron "that way" or Ron doesn't like Hermione, so... I mean. Yeah. Plenty of people probably think Sirius/Remus is OOC 'cause clearly Sirius is a lot more hung up on James anyway, and he was never as close with Remus... or something.

I think, maybe, that "OOC" is the wrong term. Like... some pairings are just... very hard to swallow, very unlikely. I was saying in another comment that I'd give Harry/Snape (or Harry/any-adult) a plausibility percentage of below 30%. I even went to far as to give H/D a plausibility percentage of around 15%, just 'cause I'm masochistic I guess. But maybe that's a good way to think of it. Like... in the "real world", in more than 70% of all possible universes (so to speak), it wouldn't happen, no, of course not. Buuuut... theoretically... I guess... pretty much anything can happen under the right circumstances, even if those circumstances are -very- hard to come by, y'know?

For one thing, canon!Harry & canon!Snape would have to change in order for Harry/Snape to work-- and same goes for H/D to work. So... most people would agree that going by canon characterization, H/S doesn't work-- but then, H/D doesn't work either, and neither do any other slash pairings, really. Glass houses, man :>

[fraught.livejournal.com]

What the people who say "the author can change that" are really saying is that the author can -change- how you perceive those characters & their motivations. And-- for you-- maybe they're too ingrained, while for other people, their concepts of these characters are much more fluid, you know what I mean?

Yes, I know exactly what you mean. And while I have changed my mind about certain canon elements or pairings or whatever, I think my anti-Snape/Harry attitude is too ingrained to be changed (I won't say it won't ever change, because you never know what the future might bring). I should also mention that I don't like Snape as a character, either in canon or as someone to read about in fanfiction -- he reminds me too much of a horrible, biased teacher I had in school and I find his attitude towards his students bordering on the abusive. He hits all my WRONGWRONGWRONGHATEHATEHATE buttons and I don't think anyone but JKR herself could change that perception.

The only pairings that you couldn't easily argue were OOC would be the heavily canon-supported ones, and even then some people say that Hermione doesn't like Ron "that way" or Ron doesn't like Hermione, so...

I don't think R/Hr is OOC, I could make a case for it, I suppose, but I don't honestly see Hermione liking Ron back in canon *shrug*. I won't argue that Ron doesn't like Hermione, because he obviously does, but to me, Hermione is sending out clear signals that she knows and doesn't want to go there.

I mean. Yeah. Plenty of people probably think Sirius/Remus is OOC 'cause clearly Sirius is a lot more hung up on James anyway, and he was never as close with Remus... or something.

I get that POV, but I disagree with it :).

I was saying in another comment that I'd give Harry/Snape (or Harry/any-adult) a plausibility percentage of below 30%. I even went to far as to give H/D a plausibility percentage of around 15%, just 'cause I'm masochistic I guess.

At this point, I don't find either pairing very plausible, though I would give Harry/Draco a higher plausibility percentage. It also depends on when the fic is set, though, because OotP showed me a Harry who is mostly indifferent toward Draco, whereas before, he would actually be somewhat worried about what Draco might think of him. *Then* I could see H/D, but since he's barely a blimp on Harry's radar post-OotP, H/D strikes me now as more implausible than before (but still more plausible than Harry/Snape).

most people would agree that going by canon characterization, H/S doesn't work-- but then, H/D doesn't work either, and neither do any other slash pairings, really. Glass houses, man :>

True :). And I'm constantly struggling to reconcile my canon views with what I like to read in fanfiction, especially since I believe that canon Harry is straight, which makes all Harry-slash somewhat OOC for me :)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I guess I like Snape separate from any pairing or his interactions with anyone, simply because he's an interestingly complex personality with depth. He's a bastard and I wouldn't wanna be his best friend, but then, I wouldn't want to be Draco's best friend either, and I adore him. I tend to try to not put myself directly into the fictional universe, I guess. Things get messed up that way :> Heee. Also, everything I ever say about seeing things in canon is questionable to me, 'cause I tend to see the most blatantly obvious thing, which like... -never- means slash unless I'm looking and primed for it or it's -very- obvious. And if I've even -heard- of a pairing before I see canon, I'll question whether it's "really there", y'know. I suppose this can apply to any subtext, as slash automatically is. How can subtext be "canon", anyway? Etc.

I think "OOC" ends up being a way of saying "GODDAMN IT I HATE THIS PAIRING AND I WANT TO HAVE A REASON WHY", heheh. Like, I have this violent distaste for 1x3 in GW, right. I reeeeally wish I could say "okay, there's -no- way they're really even friends", but... I mean, oopsie, Heero's spent more time with Trowa (technically) than with any other pilot. So I'm like... erm.... stuck. It's hard to keep one's own biases out of the way one perceives a work, I guess. Like, enough people (or at least, in GW, this person (http://www.gundamwinganalysis.web1000.com/characteranal.htm)) just kind of say, "well, in canon X character has no sign of being 'a homosexual'" and that's that. It gets me pretty upset, but it's true that at base, it's not canonically valid to be like, "X character is gay" and "X character isn't gay". *sigh*

I guess I just think maybe applying canon to judge pairings is messy and possibly sort of a false form of lit-crit. I mean, in a way... it's just funny to imagine you could ever determine what's "secretly there" if the text doesn't tell you. If all that's there is "weird obsession"-- well, that's "weird obsession" not "actually in love". As soon as you take that leap of judgement, you're on your own, beyond canon, making up your own story to suit your emotional kinks, basically. Hopefully it's still in the same general area of fictional reality as the original, but not being the author... and I mean, even the author isn't necessarily the be-and-end-all-- the text is. Ugh, makes my head hurt :>

It really helps -me-, I guess, knowing things like that JKR obviously -intends- to have R/Hr more than she intends H/Hr, for instance, which seems to boggle her, actually. It's kind of... not that I care what her own analysis of her work is, it's just that it's a promise of future canon. In H/S and similar pairings, you -can't- rely on canon-intent because... well... not in a million years was that intended. So people kind of write their own adventure, so to speak. It's a way of relating to text that's... different, y'know?

I just wish they'd back it up, that's all. Most people are so lazy. I still maintain I've never read a fully backed-up H/D fic, and I've read a -lot- in that pairing. And by that I mean a -lot-. Then again, y'know, tough call. Prolly the hardest HP slash pairing to make plausible, and yet it's probably the only slash pairing for either Harry or Draco that's... uh... remotely "easy". Heh. Ahhh, I feel bad that I don't go for friendship-slash more ^^;