...flowery melodrama vs High Literature ftw??

[reenka]

Man. I just made a poll about this, and now it's come up in real life-- really awkwardly.
    To backtrack & for background, I'm trying to write a novella (novel??) in a month with my rl friend this January. We meet several times a week to write together, heheh, and so far it's been really effective at getting me to write (it's the writing-class effect). While I do finish a fanfic that's on my mind (eventually), with original fic it may take years for me to get to the end (or I'll just drop it 'cause I get bored). I dunno if anyone else experiences this phenomenon-- I guess I'm the same in original fic or fanfic, it's just that I get a lot more ideas for fanfic (or, I used to *sniff*), so even though I still quit on 80%, that still leaves a huge number of finished fics as far as I'm concerned. But anyway.

Yeah, so generally we don't discuss our stories much except to talk meta about the process a bit, though she (my friend) mentioned about how over-the-top everyone is in her fic and how she plans to fix that in the edits afterwards when I said I'm writing even though I'm pretty sure it sucks. And I'm like, 'yeah, though generally I don't think my work sucks'-- that's not why I have writer's block. Why do people assume that? (My mom's advice before I dropped my last creative writing class was 'writing even though you think it sucks'). I mean, I just have no inspiration-- why does that mean I have to think I suck? I know I don't suck :P When I do think I suck, it's because I do, and generally umm, it's not enough to stop me (good self-esteem, that would be me, yeaaaah.)

Somehow we got on the subject of melodramatic/cliched/flowery (bad?) writing, and that's when my friend started to get defensive. I said I sorta wished I could write in the 'popular' style, plot-wise-- that is, I sometimes get bitter & wish writing cliched romantic melodrama came easier to me, because it's certainly not hard, per se. I was trying to be understanding & saying that it's all good as long as you try to be good at what you do (in terms of genre/style), and she just kept repeating about how she doesn't aspire to "high literature" and how she didn't like Tolstoy. I mean. I couldn't get into 'War and Peace' either & I certainly don't tend to either write or read high literature, but what does this have to do with having standards & wanting to be Really Good at your craft? (Well, I know my friend is just personally v. either/or and hardline about her opinions, but still....)

    I was trying to be all mediating & compromising, and then she asked my opinion of writing like Mercedes Lackey, 'cause that's what she sees herself doing. And. Uh. I used to like her (when I was 14) and I said so, to which she replied she'd always liked 'young' writing, which she takes to mean clear-cut in theme & ornate in style. But style can be ornate without being repetitive & cliched & just PAINFUL TO CONTEMPLATE, like Mercedes Lackey certainly is :/ Her earlier work was intriguing, esp. to an overly romantic teenage girl who liked white horsies (SHUT UP), but now it's just embarrassing :/ :/ Why would anyone want to be like her -now-?

I dunno. Suddenly I'm doubting that over-the-top/flowery writing is necessarily bad (well, there's an audience for it, obviously, and apparently some writers who know they're like that & don't care). And yet. I dunno. I just think it's important to want to get better, to grow as a writer, and defensiveness about not writing 'high literature' has no place in someone (like my friend) who wants to write seriously & get published. How is it I'm more 'serious' than her in this sense even though I don't care about getting published? 'Serious' in quotes 'cause I know she's really serious about being a writer. I mean, this is especially relevant to me 'cause I wasn't just born writing non-ornately-- far from it; in fact, everything about me is naturally ornate (if not melodramatic); my HS writing teacher called my writing [too] 'ecstatic', and I've tried really hard to get past that. :/
    And then she said 'this is why I never show anyone my writing' -.-;; Ouch. *facepalm* I wonder if flowery-melodrama-writing people really are more sensitive and over-the-top themselves (I know my friend is ♥) hehe. (Though hey, I'm sensitive too, dammit... hmf.)

Comments

[shaggirl.livejournal.com]

I dunno. Suddenly I'm doubting that over-the-top/flowery writing is necessarily bad

That is a revelation of rather staggering proportions. It's like your entire foundation is crumbling beneath you!

[worldserpent.livejournal.com]

You should just tell her that high literature is a social construct, that is decided years after the fact, so it's not even worth thinking about. :P But, no matter what your opinions on what good writing is or whether one should aspire to write "high literature," I don't think your friend can consider herself a "serious" writer (as in, seriously aspiring to be published) unless she prepares herself for a LOT of rejection. She's going to be lucky if she even gets criticism (that is, a reason behind the rejection, like "your prose is too ornate blah blah") as opposed to a form letter.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I'm trying to figure out how clear-cut theme and ornate style=young writing. Or does she just mean stories that teenaged girls stereotypically like? It reminds of some old quote about I think Shelly where somebody said something like, "I'd worry about any 16-year-old who didn't love Shelly, and anyone over 16 who did" or something like that.

But yeah it seems like...I don't know what all you said but it seems like her defensiveness was already in place as she was the one who defined herself as doing that and then wasn't happy when the conversation turned towards that type of writing. (I wouldn't actually think that liking that sort of thing means you wouldn't like War & Peace either--those things don't stand out as two opposite extremes in my mind.;-)

[furiosity.livejournal.com]

I wonder if flowery-melodrama-writing people really are more sensitive and over-the-top themselves
I think so. I also think that "muses" have something to do with the whole thing. I've yet to meet a writer who talked about having a "muse" or multiple "muses" and didn't turn into defensive ball of ire at the slightest hint of crit.

or maybe that makes me crap, that I don't have muses and write from my own head? oh dear. :\\\\\

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

Some people grow, others get married with kids and pretend get stuck? Dunno. Everytime someone writes a 300-word rec about something with GORGEOUS language, I try to take that with a spoon of salt now.

[discordiana.livejournal.com]

I think this issue is a lot wider than people usually make it out to be. But that's usually my default position. :P People who write what we call badfic could be doing it because they think it's good, or because they know it's sorta bad (or could be better - more stylistic, more realistic, more introspective, etc etc) but don't care, they have fun! As for reactions to criticism, there's a difference between "HOW DARE YOU BADMOUTH MY BRAINCHILD, I DO THIS FOR FUN!!" and a more laid-back "yeah, I know, but it's fun". I dunno. I admire people who do what they want, know what they're doing, and just take it in stride when criticised. Of course your friend's defensiveness suggests she's not the "I know, but it's fun" type, but it could also be she's been overwhelmed by arguments like "the only proper way to write is to do it write the Great American Novel" or whatever she's trying to express using "high literature". I do take my writing seriously and would like to get published, but I also understand the frustration of people who are basically hobbists and keep being told "but why don't you want to improve yourself". Does every soccer player need to play soccer at a professional level?

I think you'd communicate better if you clarified whether she's allergic to criticism and has not considered purple-prose can be bad, or the criticism misses the point. And maybe you could point out that she's misusing the term "high literature" so she can find a better expression. :)

[sarahtales.livejournal.com]

It's tricky. Because, for instance, Patricia McKillip is much more flowery than Mercedes Lackey, but I know which is the better writer. Ornate doesn't bother me: decorated does, if you know what I mean. If the story just has flowers on top that is pointless, and they are hiding the story, but if the story works best with lots of imagery, say, then that's the way to write it.

That said, I write very plainly and would never be able to write anything like McKillip if the lives of adorable puppies depended on it.

Of course, if anyone told me they wanted to write like Mercedes Lackey my first thought would be 'Are there 15 year old boys in love with horses in your fiction? ARE THERE? ANSWER ME!'

Basically, I'm sure you both have standards for your fiction, but they're different standards differently expressed? And all anyone can do is write the story they want to write the best way they can see to write it, and it really doesn't matter whether they see it as High Literature as not.