...flowery melodrama vs High Literature ftw??

[reenka]

Man. I just made a poll about this, and now it's come up in real life-- really awkwardly.
    To backtrack & for background, I'm trying to write a novella (novel??) in a month with my rl friend this January. We meet several times a week to write together, heheh, and so far it's been really effective at getting me to write (it's the writing-class effect). While I do finish a fanfic that's on my mind (eventually), with original fic it may take years for me to get to the end (or I'll just drop it 'cause I get bored). I dunno if anyone else experiences this phenomenon-- I guess I'm the same in original fic or fanfic, it's just that I get a lot more ideas for fanfic (or, I used to *sniff*), so even though I still quit on 80%, that still leaves a huge number of finished fics as far as I'm concerned. But anyway.

Yeah, so generally we don't discuss our stories much except to talk meta about the process a bit, though she (my friend) mentioned about how over-the-top everyone is in her fic and how she plans to fix that in the edits afterwards when I said I'm writing even though I'm pretty sure it sucks. And I'm like, 'yeah, though generally I don't think my work sucks'-- that's not why I have writer's block. Why do people assume that? (My mom's advice before I dropped my last creative writing class was 'writing even though you think it sucks'). I mean, I just have no inspiration-- why does that mean I have to think I suck? I know I don't suck :P When I do think I suck, it's because I do, and generally umm, it's not enough to stop me (good self-esteem, that would be me, yeaaaah.)

Somehow we got on the subject of melodramatic/cliched/flowery (bad?) writing, and that's when my friend started to get defensive. I said I sorta wished I could write in the 'popular' style, plot-wise-- that is, I sometimes get bitter & wish writing cliched romantic melodrama came easier to me, because it's certainly not hard, per se. I was trying to be understanding & saying that it's all good as long as you try to be good at what you do (in terms of genre/style), and she just kept repeating about how she doesn't aspire to "high literature" and how she didn't like Tolstoy. I mean. I couldn't get into 'War and Peace' either & I certainly don't tend to either write or read high literature, but what does this have to do with having standards & wanting to be Really Good at your craft? (Well, I know my friend is just personally v. either/or and hardline about her opinions, but still....)

    I was trying to be all mediating & compromising, and then she asked my opinion of writing like Mercedes Lackey, 'cause that's what she sees herself doing. And. Uh. I used to like her (when I was 14) and I said so, to which she replied she'd always liked 'young' writing, which she takes to mean clear-cut in theme & ornate in style. But style can be ornate without being repetitive & cliched & just PAINFUL TO CONTEMPLATE, like Mercedes Lackey certainly is :/ Her earlier work was intriguing, esp. to an overly romantic teenage girl who liked white horsies (SHUT UP), but now it's just embarrassing :/ :/ Why would anyone want to be like her -now-?

I dunno. Suddenly I'm doubting that over-the-top/flowery writing is necessarily bad (well, there's an audience for it, obviously, and apparently some writers who know they're like that & don't care). And yet. I dunno. I just think it's important to want to get better, to grow as a writer, and defensiveness about not writing 'high literature' has no place in someone (like my friend) who wants to write seriously & get published. How is it I'm more 'serious' than her in this sense even though I don't care about getting published? 'Serious' in quotes 'cause I know she's really serious about being a writer. I mean, this is especially relevant to me 'cause I wasn't just born writing non-ornately-- far from it; in fact, everything about me is naturally ornate (if not melodramatic); my HS writing teacher called my writing [too] 'ecstatic', and I've tried really hard to get past that. :/
    And then she said 'this is why I never show anyone my writing' -.-;; Ouch. *facepalm* I wonder if flowery-melodrama-writing people really are more sensitive and over-the-top themselves (I know my friend is ♥) hehe. (Though hey, I'm sensitive too, dammit... hmf.)

Comments

[discordiana.livejournal.com]

I think this issue is a lot wider than people usually make it out to be. But that's usually my default position. :P People who write what we call badfic could be doing it because they think it's good, or because they know it's sorta bad (or could be better - more stylistic, more realistic, more introspective, etc etc) but don't care, they have fun! As for reactions to criticism, there's a difference between "HOW DARE YOU BADMOUTH MY BRAINCHILD, I DO THIS FOR FUN!!" and a more laid-back "yeah, I know, but it's fun". I dunno. I admire people who do what they want, know what they're doing, and just take it in stride when criticised. Of course your friend's defensiveness suggests she's not the "I know, but it's fun" type, but it could also be she's been overwhelmed by arguments like "the only proper way to write is to do it write the Great American Novel" or whatever she's trying to express using "high literature". I do take my writing seriously and would like to get published, but I also understand the frustration of people who are basically hobbists and keep being told "but why don't you want to improve yourself". Does every soccer player need to play soccer at a professional level?

I think you'd communicate better if you clarified whether she's allergic to criticism and has not considered purple-prose can be bad, or the criticism misses the point. And maybe you could point out that she's misusing the term "high literature" so she can find a better expression. :)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Well, just to clarify, yeah, umm, she doesn't claim she does this 'just for fun' either way, hehe, so there was no 'fun' involved, only a sort of strident repetition that she wasn't doing it for 'High Literature'. So yeah, there are people who write this way & take themselves seriously all the way, which is what threw me off; it's not even that she thought it was 'good', either, but rather we sort of failed to have a rational discussion about it ^^;; I mean, ummm, I don't think one's writing has to be 'great' or 'serious' or 'professional', but even with a hobby, for me it'd be important not to suck. And flowery adverbs and melodramatic phrases and cliches piled on top cliches-- those things suck regardless of level of professionalism. It's embarrassingly, excruciatingly, painfully, disgustingly awful. At least, that's my honest opinion; I was trying to be open-minded but clearly I failed. :> There are obviously lots of possible valid styles, and lyricism is one of them (hell, it's pretty much -my- style), but as I told Maya below, ummm, lyricism != flowery melodrama. :[

Anyway, I don't care if people don't want to 'improve themselves'; this implies a certain level of non-defensive self-awareness. Like, for instance, I do think Mercedes Lackey should 'improve herself', but somehow that seems to be unlikely and also missing the point somehow :>