(no subject)

[reenka]

Skimming the comments to this post about the increasing potential for slash mainstreaming, it occurs to me that there's a difference between not liking to read slash as a genre ('cause you're just so painfully hetero it hurts or are a canon whore... and I say that lovingly) and not supporting it. :/

Maybe I've just lost what little patience I had after seeing this post by Mairead/Aristide (one of my favorite Highlander/Sentinel writers) about the homophobia rampant in Santa Barbara. I know it's unrelated, but it's exactly the sort of thing that's related to absolutely everything, every little detail in terms of how people think on many issues. Prejudice in general, no matter what kind, is such a wide-ranging and complex issue; you can't pinpoint it and eliminate it in one place-- it'll always pop up in another. And people are so well-meaning these days, so blase and PC about it, but that doesn't change my feeling that you should support slash (with whatever literary caveats) just on principle. Just to say it's, you know, okay and not take that for granted.

I dunno.

On the other hand, I don't want slash to go mainstream; I don't want the media attention, and even moreso the courts' attention. Then again, I don't think we -need- the mainstream-- it's not like they can give us anything we don't already have quite enough of, 'cause the people who were going to find that obscure little manga fandom probably would anyway and the 25-30% new laypeople into HP or like, House or something who might join... uh, well, I'm not so enamoured of fandom size/loudness/etc that I think it should grow and multiply like the proverbial Blob from Outer Space. Plus, the more mainstream you go the more people try to make money off you, and that... they already do enough of that. I mean, in many ways, fandom (the cons, the self-produced zines, the net community-- all of it) is by definition a grass-roots sort of thing; it's 'for the people by the people', and going mainstream definitely means tempting The Powers That Be to mess with this dynamic & our freedoms. Privacy isn't even an issue here; give the mainstream media a bone & they'll take your leg off, that's the issue. :/

Oh, and I feel the mainstreaming of BL manga & manga in general is totally different-- it's not a grass-roots thing by nature so much as necessity; while I still prefer to get my manga for free and feel there's still not enough diversity & market competition to make sure I get the translation/editing quality & selection I want to see-- manga is by nature a product. I like the BL fandom but can really take it or leave it-- I mean, it mostly consists of fangirl squeeing about hotness anyway. Slash is qualitatively different; while it's not original the way one's own novel would be, the writing/reading is only one part of a triad-- watching/reading canon, interacting with fans and fanfic/vids/art. With manga scanlations, there's just... y'know, manga, whether or not it's professional or amateur (sort of the way you have amateur porn even though there's tons of 'professional' porn, ahahah).

Comments

[discordiana.livejournal.com]

I always felt there was a difference between disliking slash and being against it. I mean, dislike it all you want, tastes are subjective. But being against slash, that's like saying that universally slash can't produce good stories, and the only universal marker of slash is the gay romance. So I find it hard to imagine there's no homophobia at work.

[scoradh.livejournal.com]

I don't actually have anything to say (except HI). I told my friend today I didn't want to watch The Wind that shakes the Barley because it had no romance. She said yes it did, I said it's just het, and she said, what do you want, gay stuff?

I didn't say yes. I think I let the mainstreaming side down but. Whatever. People still look at you funny if you say you do. :(

[worldserpent.livejournal.com]

Eh, I don't really believe that slash=gay fiction, because haven't we had ten bajillion wanks where people insist that slash is not about Real Gay Men or the What It's Really Like to Be a Gay Man or the Gay Male Perspective but about What Women Want, and Female Fantasy? So if slash is not about gay men (or women, depending on whether you think it is anti-lesbian to define it as only m/m) at heart at all, why should it be a litmus test? After all, haven't we also had tons of wanks where a slash fan notes that they like slash, but their Bible sez that God is against homosexuality? Should we also say that men should support "lesbian porn" (that is not really about lesbians, by them, or for them?)

I mean, what is "supporting" slash anyway? Not hating on it or harrassing people? That's just politeness, and supporting free speech/liberal interpretation.

[theredwepainted]

I think whether not supporting slash is homophobic or not depends largely on 1. how we define slash and 2. what else the person is or is not against.

Like, okay, there are people who would define slash as specifically taking characters who are not canonically gay and putting them in a gay relationship/sexual encounter/whatever. If you are anti-slash, but you define it that way, I don't think that's necessarily homophobic, but then you have to look at what ELSE they're against, too. Are they also against putting canonically gay characters into straight relationships? What about canonically infeasible straight relationships? Are they comfortable with canon gay relationships?

I mean, I really think saying "not supporting slash is probably homophobic" is too simple.

As for the attitude, I think you have to look beyond the EXISTENCE of the attitude to the question of why it's there. Because, okay, yes loudly proclaiming that slash is sucky and horrible and OOC is kinda wtf, but at the same time, my question would then be "Why do they feel so defensive about it?" It could be because they're giant homophobes, yes. Or it MAY be because fandom, or at least their fandom, is so slash-heavy and so unaccepting of non-slashers that they've gotten to the point where they feel like they need to take a strong, loud stance as a defensive measure.

In that sense, it reminds me of how I'm constantly trying to fight back the urge to post long spiels about the superiority of authorial based interpretation - it's not that I actually think there's anything wrong with deconstruction, it's just that I've been yelled at for not going with deconstruction so often that I feel defensive about it even before anyone says anything.

And seriously there ARE some fandoms that are so slash-centric that anyone who isn't into slash is going to feel at odds with their entire community. Just like there are some fandoms that are so centered on a specific character, relationship or interpretation that people who don't agree feel attacked. There are analogies I could make here but they'd be a surefire way to hit fandom_wank, hahaha. But seriously I can't help but come at things from a social science perspective, because I'm a huge geek, and to me these are the questions we should be asking/considering before declaring that posting such and such rant means that person is a big homophobe.