(no subject)

[reenka]

Reading this,
    i understand and respect your need to rant about something you dislike, but please keep in mind that there are people like me who do like this genre, and who don't appreciate it being put down as slash's "slutty cousin." imagine someone would take apart and ridicule your favorite genre like that--how would you feel?

...made me seriously think, for the first time in fandom, "man, I really need a sockpuppet journal [just to make crude remarks to people like this], don't I."

I R s0 meen and insensitive -.- I don't get to play in the pretty sandbox anymore :( And yeah, uh, before you lose all respect for me or whatever, I meant that as a joke. -.-;; I'd say it as myself if I actually had something to say, but as it is, I feel the need to act out-of-character just 'cause that statement is just kind of begging for it like a two-penny rentboy, I swear. The Cult of Nice in action, ladies and gentlemen. On some level, I'm mostly offended at the implication that if I don't take people's amusing little rants on -mpreg-, yes mpreg, to heart, I'm some sort of insensitive bitch with no delicate feelings or something. I... I really hate it when people use their so-called sensitivity to manipulate others. I hate it a lot. It makes me wish I was mean.
    (And the funny part is that I still have no real impulse to be mean, but now that I -can't-, it makes me feel like I have to or something. Oh, fandom. It'd be so much more fun if everyone had a sense of humor. But then, that's life in general for you.)

To be disgustingly fair, I have to say that rants with a side of 'you should write -this- way' are also wanky, pathetic and more importantly, useless. It's not like you can make anyone care about Earth logic in so-called 'fantastic fiction' if they don't already. Logic is just not most mpreg-readers' cup of spiked tea. On the other hand, see above re: having a sense of humor when someone makes lots of references to assbabies, multicolored colons and the mechanics of ass-birth. Honestly.

And, just in case y'all didn't know: I have no great issue with mpreg anymore than I do with Veela!Draco (whom I actually like more than fanon-without-any-explanation!Draco, about whom I will never be sorry for having written 10,000 rants on how I wish he would die, die, DIE and then die again-- and yeah, if that hurt someone's feelings, I'm sorry, but we're talking about fanon!Draco, not women's rights in Ethiopia). What I do have an issue with is people who actually take it seriously, like it's Omg Arte, because Omg Assbabies Are Serious Business, didn't you KNOW?! -.-

PS: I fear I've gotten hooked on the Hana Yori Dango J-drama. Someone save me before it's too late--!

Comments

[notrafficlights.livejournal.com]

Moving on, I really don't see how the person couldn't react like that, if she was an mpreg lover, and then alittlewhisper says, "I don't see how you could read it like that". I mean, there's underhanded/backhanded insulting, and then there's the original post she made. She didn't even make any effort to conceal her ridicule, which, frankly, is just pathetic lying and lazy. That's wankier than anybody being offended by something that was obviously intended to offended.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I think in the end, we just get offended by different things, that's all. No amount of ridicule of an -idea-, straightforward or otherwise, would seem offensive to me because I see no need to be 'respectful' or nice about ideas. Nice to specific -people-, and people in general-- of course. Nice to ideas-- wtf?! If it's stupid in your opinion, go ahead and call it stupid in any way you want-- it's couching one's ridicule in niceties and politeness that pisses me off. Say what you mean and mean what you say; it bothers me when people say 'oh, I understand it's your right to rant on your lj but really you're an insensitive bitch and should think of others' feelings' because it's so essentially dishonest. It's trying to enforce your social rules/mores on others, and that's really annoying to me.

Mind you, I wasn't defending or attacking anyone in particular; perhaps I do separate ideas and people too much, but separate them I do. So yeah, she had the right to be offended, but not the right to say the other person had to be more 'polite' and 'respectful'. On the other hand, I really have always hated social-harmony bullying and have never taken it from anyone... but then I also don't tend to talk to most people one way or the other, and I'm never intentionally rude 'cause I want to avoid attention. So... all this stuff about needing to show respect when you don't feel it, for an idea rather than a person... that just never flies with me.

[notrafficlights.livejournal.com]

No amount of ridicule of an -idea-, straightforward or otherwise

Oh no, she stepped over just ridiculing an idea several times in her little rant.

It's trying to enforce your social rules/mores on others, and that's really annoying to me.

So how is an mpreg reader doing that to a ranter any different to someone who obviously doesn't like mpreg ranting about how mpreg should supposedly be written? If the ranter has that right, which they do, even if it is a stupid right, then the reader does as well.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I think at base, it's that ranting about how things should be written is annoying and pointless, but not personally offensive to me the way naturally presuming (ranting aside) that the other person should consider others' feelings and 'not be disrespectful' is offensive to me. The word 'disrespectful' was mentioned several times, and that's just my button-- which is what I said in the first place, that this is just my button as to what I find offensive.

It's different because telling others how to write fiction is different to me than telling others how to communicate in a more... um, directly personal way. You can tell me, for instance, that I've written Draco OOC and I should stop and write him like -this- and I might be offended/hurt/puzzled, but I wouldn't really take it personally or seriously get pissed. I'd be like 'hmm, maybe you're right, but...' or something. But if you tell me how to act on a personal level, I'd really have to try hard not to bite your head off, y'know? Especially when couched in terms of 'you're just not as sensitive as me' or whatever. I'm plenty fucking sensitive, y'know :> No one can really get away with saying that they're more thin-skinned than I am, though perhaps they're more drama-queeny and whiny :P (...this, I mean in general. Er.)

[notrafficlights.livejournal.com]

I think at base, it's that ranting about how things should be written is annoying and pointless,

But she wasn't just ranting about that either. She was. several times, ranting about what should be written, which is one of the topics of rants which shits me off to no end, and is worse than "How To Write" or "You Insulted Me" rants. That's assuming the other person should tailor their creative processing to another whiny bitch's needs.

You can tell me, for instance, that I've written Draco OOC and I should stop and write him like -this- and I might be offended/hurt/puzzled, but I wouldn't really take it personally or seriously get pissed.

And that's constructive criticism, especially if it was coming from me, a Draco fan. Which is different from someone who doesn't like something ranting about a) whether someone should write something at all and b) how said thing ranter doesn't like should be written. Said ranter is obviously a fuckwit who's never heard the phrase, "It's not for you!"

But if you tell me how to act on a personal level, I'd really have to try hard not to bite your head off, y'know?

So why is someone being offended by obviously offensive content and then you saying they shouldn't offensive valid? Even if they do use their sensitivity to try and manipulate others, you're saying how they should act. Just as someone who says "Blah blah we should write slash about real gay male issues like AIDS & STDs not silly fantastic mpreg situations" is offensive, because it's telling them what they should expend their time and effort on.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I think originally, there were both things-- the how & the what-- going on in the rant. There was 'what' as illustrations of the 'how' (which, I believe, is 'logically'). Which I find stupid and annoying, but not as annoying as it'd be if she seriously was saying no one should write mpreg (like some people say no one should write shota or RPF or whatever). That does annoy me a lot, yeah. So basically she was being an asshat but at least she amused me more than the non-amusing self-righteous person, though they were both annoyingly self-righteous, how's that :>

Even if they do use their sensitivity to try and manipulate others, you're saying how they should act.
Nah, see, I'm not saying how they should act because I would never ever in my life (EVER) tell them this to their face or be all in their space about it. I'm like 'gawd I hate that' but I don't actually direct this at anyone. Using sensitivity to manipulate others just sort of makes me shake with squick, I guess, but it's not something I'd seriously use against anyone, y'know?

I think we can agree on some level that both people were wrong in their way or whatever, it's just that as I said, one thing annoys you more and the other thing annoys -me- more :> I'm not saying I'm objectively correct, I'm just saying man, this is what tempts me to actually say something ill-advised-- which I would never say. Not because I'm polite (by nurture) but rather because I don't get up in people's business by nature.

[notrafficlights.livejournal.com]

Nah, see, I'm not saying how they should act because I would never ever in my life (EVER) tell them this to their face or be all in their space about it.

No, you'd just do it behind their backs instead. :P XD

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I knew you'd say that :P But it's still better than telling people what to do, at least to me :> It's all about the lesser evil, ahahah :>

[lasultrix.livejournal.com]

we're talking about fanon!Draco, not women's rights in Ethiopia)

*cracks up* Ah Reena, I do love you.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

*beams* ♥♥
...I was trying to be nice(r than I could be) with that, too :D :D

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

You are so mean.



*is writing SPREG*

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I know I am. *proud smile*


...do I even want to know what that s stands for...?

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

I'm serious (http://www.foodsubs.com/Photos/spanishchorizo.jpg) *also proud*

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

*scarred for LIFE, THANKYOUVERYMUCH* -.-;;;;;;;



....this reminds me of this incident at Halloween that involved my best friend, a Rocky Horror costume corset, a sausage and some stuffed panties....

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

But did anyone get pregnant? And what did the result look like?


And while I'm at it, you're an a cosmopolitan part of the States: are any sausages that also have cheese in their stuffing known to youse?

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Last I checked, you can't get pregnant by sausage, and also no insertion was involved. I think. I can't believe I just typed that, btw. *facepalm*


...also, I believe there are some, but can't be sure as I tend to avoid sausages...

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

Pah, if I say SPREG is possible, it is!

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Well, it's true that sausages are hot, especially on girls crossdressing as boys, but that's neither here nor there...

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

Wait, are there people who take mpreg fic seriously, as in don't think it's crackfic? This I was completely oblivious to.

However, I would like to say there is no Cult of Nice in HP fandom, and I do think that there is serious oppression at work with in with all the OOC stuff and "Draco is like *this* and only this* within the H/D section of the fandom, which I have a very hard time taking seriously because Draco being with Harry to begin with is *absolutely* out of character.

And on to me rambling about that:

Any Draco pov is automatically not canon Draco because we have NO IDEA what he thinks. HP is not written by a universal, omniscient narrator--it's written firmly from Harry's perspective, with his prejudices and inclinations threaded all the way through it. There is no way to authoritatively discuss "draco's motivations" or "draco's character" without first taking a position and then speaking from said position. All we know of Draco is that he's BAD (and that it's bad child-rearing that made him that way) according to Harry and his friends.

Some people (a lot of people) appear to think that Draco would see Harry as something other than the bain of his existence and the source of all that's wrong with the world. Why that is, I am STILL not sure (aside from they think Harry and Draco are cute together OR they are subsumed by the romance trope of "rescuing" someone from themselves and "redeeming" them). This perspective has confused me from my earliest days in HP because I just don't understand how one can fundamentally challenge the canon personality of the character and *then* say that others write fanon. Well, yeah. But Draco with Harry is always already a fanon construction.

I assume by fanonDraco you mean the guy who cries all the time, is a potions genius, was abused by his parents, and is secretly just a snotty gentleman (any or all of these)? Yes? That character is total crap, but isn't that character usually married to Ginny? (ok, taking the piss now)

Also, Veelafic is automatically crackfic, too, innit?

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I do think we differ slightly in that I definitely think we know more than just that he's 'bad', especially in HBP, ahahah. Like, from his actions aside from any of Harry's commentary, you can make a sort of sketchy portrait of him, the sorts of things he's likely to do (around Harry and once around Lucius), the sorts of things he actually -says-. We know things like his opinion of Hermione, Mudbloods, his attachment to his father, that he's the sort of person who'd make badges and sing stupid songs, that he hates being humiliated like with the ferret thing, that he's good at Potions, that Snape favors him, that Crabbe & Goyle are willing to polyjuice as girls for him, that he has Pansy fawning over him-- etcetc. It's not a 'deep' character like Harry or one of the Trio or even Snape, but he's not a total blank slate.

That said, I -was- talking about the fanon!Draco you meant, mostly-- though I assumed people who read this lj would just know what I meant, ahahah, I've certainly ranted about it enough. :> I mean, lots of people use the 'but we could do anything' excuse or whatever to write him -really- crappily, and at some point in fandom I've gotten fed up and started needing more logical thought & plausibility put into people's fic. Because it's not just about Draco being OOC or not-- it's about context. It's about how other people -react- to Draco, what his known beliefs are, how fast people in general change their tune, how boy sin general act & so on. When Harry is like 'omg Draco is so cool' at the start of a fic-- well, that's OOC.

And I know you say H/D in general is OOC, but I think any pairing can be made plausible with good enough writing, I guess. It's just a difference in the level of difficulty involved. It may be so hard as to be not worth the effort (apparently, even to shippers), but I don't think any story is impossible to make happen. I don't think that feelings/relationships are part of one's basic 'personality', though acknowledging these feelings if you're going to change them is necessary; I also don't think any change is necessarily OOC -if- you 'sell' it and give it a plausible progression. It's the constant lack of progression that I myself find OOC/fanon/badly done. Well, I also find omg-so-cool-smooth-and-gorgeous!Draco OOC/fanon, especially where Harry & the Gryffindors are total losers in comparison. I mean you-the-author may think so, but in reality Gryffindors aren't the ones who actually -lose- (so far) so if you start having them lose, you have to acknowledge it's not like they have a long history of it.

I know people who don't know what they're talking about randomly point at things and say 'that's OOC', and I know 'fanon' is too vague of a term and may apply to 'everything-but-canon', which is just plain useless, but.... I just need a way to differentiate fics which take canon events/relationships into account and fics that-- don't. Basically, I've started using a shorthand for this and I say 'fanon!Draco', meaning any characterization that glorifies or white-washes or prettifies him into a suave smirky sex-god and/or someone who's not pathetic/obsessive/immature in the least. That's just a bad characterization whether or not it's 'IC' for Draco. I mean, people like that don't even exist, I think, ahahah. -.-;;

Though the 'Cult of Nice'-- I always thought it existed everywhere just 'cause people are always the same.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

i think the basic difference bewteeen you and me is that i don't understand how you could take a situation like this and declare alittlewhisper to be right.

and what's with this deal of taking things too seriously? you and me both take things seriously that would make most people piss themselves w/ laughter. this is fandom!

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

No, the difference between you and me is that you would assume I'm agreeing with alittlewhisper (which I'm not), just because I'm -more- annoyed by someone else's opinion :>
Oh, and I hope it's okay if I don't respond to every single one of the comments, my mom's home right now & won't let me stay online long ^^;;;