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reenkaWhile I'll get to writing about some of the things suggested (hee! there's much to say about sushi... mmm), I just wanted to say that having seen several [professional] comic & book writers reply to lj-comments about their work, it keeps on inspiring this deep sense of wrongness in me, like I'm seeing something that should not happen. Like... it's -wrong-. Brrrr-kinda wrong. I dunno, most things don't strike me that way-- I mean, usually something seems crazy or illogical or annoying, but generally not -wrong-, like it shouldn't happen like that. But yeah.
I think it's something about the power-differential. Like, there's already so much wank in fandom-- when we're all supposedly equal: the fan-readers and the fan-writers, like the yin-yang of fannishness. Even then, when a writer acquires 'Big Name' power in some cases, you can just see people shutting up, and sometimes the writer getting an entitlement complex like 'how DARE you lowly creature'... but the fandom tends to observe its own boundaries, more or less. It's one system.
Now, when you have creators from 'on high' [even newbie professionals] talking/interacting with us little-fish fans outside a structured QnA session like JKR's interviews, the entitlement and fen deference gets totally out of proportion. It just makes me wince to watch. I mean, in an independent magazine, a reviewer gets away with pretty much anything because it's their 'professional right', but on lj... it's ego vs. ego, except one ego has 'official validation', the weight of being published to back them up. And if they don't have a sense of humor about themselves [and you betcha their fans won't], it's just like an avalanche. The prospects for balanced discussion are virtually nil.
Partly, of course, I tend to feel uncomfortable sharing immediate blogspace with public figures (well, professional writers/artists) I know of [let alone fangirl] in general; especially since lj is a communal space rather than 'just a blog'. On their website is one thing-- but on lj, where they promote themselves and talk about their work & get fangirled? That is extremely uncomfortable to watch. Reading their lj at all makes me feel like I've crossed the line from fangirl to groupie; because while you can all be 'fellow fangirls', creators and readers merging into one group (which is what's so great!), you cannot have any basis for unity or a common language as long as you -are- 'a groupie'. And I'm not saying that there's no place on lj for whatever group, because there's a place for anybody & everybody on lj; the point is that lots of professional creators are increasingly interacting/using fandom without the first clue of what the normal dynamic-- it's quite a bit like being colonized... or gentrified... or something.
It's like... not joining a community but using a community [for promotion & attention alone]; it's like a middle schooler coming to sit on a kindergarten playground & selling cookies. I mean, the kiddies love the cookies, but the weirdness of that big person sitting in your sandbox is still quite disconcerting and even disturbing, it seems to me.
PS: Oh, and there's the weirdness of knowing the foibles/personality quirks of person behind the story, too, which isn't there in fandom but seems to confuse 'normal' types of reading. It's like, I don't want to wonder if such-and-such is why such-a-character acted like so-and-so or whatever. Just reading interviews or even biographies isn't the same as seeing everyday interactions in terms of... giving an immediate [too immediate] impression. Like... I don't think I'll be able to read Peg Kerr's books [which are normally just up my alley] until I've totally half-forgotten my impressions of her on lj. Even though they were pretty much neutral impressions. I just feel like... I know too much, and also the heavy pushing by fellow fangirls [peer-pressure] seriously turns me off. This is just me, though.
~~
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...Okay, now I can start packing to move to bloody Seattle *___*
I think it's something about the power-differential. Like, there's already so much wank in fandom-- when we're all supposedly equal: the fan-readers and the fan-writers, like the yin-yang of fannishness. Even then, when a writer acquires 'Big Name' power in some cases, you can just see people shutting up, and sometimes the writer getting an entitlement complex like 'how DARE you lowly creature'... but the fandom tends to observe its own boundaries, more or less. It's one system.
Now, when you have creators from 'on high' [even newbie professionals] talking/interacting with us little-fish fans outside a structured QnA session like JKR's interviews, the entitlement and fen deference gets totally out of proportion. It just makes me wince to watch. I mean, in an independent magazine, a reviewer gets away with pretty much anything because it's their 'professional right', but on lj... it's ego vs. ego, except one ego has 'official validation', the weight of being published to back them up. And if they don't have a sense of humor about themselves [and you betcha their fans won't], it's just like an avalanche. The prospects for balanced discussion are virtually nil.
Partly, of course, I tend to feel uncomfortable sharing immediate blogspace with public figures (well, professional writers/artists) I know of [let alone fangirl] in general; especially since lj is a communal space rather than 'just a blog'. On their website is one thing-- but on lj, where they promote themselves and talk about their work & get fangirled? That is extremely uncomfortable to watch. Reading their lj at all makes me feel like I've crossed the line from fangirl to groupie; because while you can all be 'fellow fangirls', creators and readers merging into one group (which is what's so great!), you cannot have any basis for unity or a common language as long as you -are- 'a groupie'. And I'm not saying that there's no place on lj for whatever group, because there's a place for anybody & everybody on lj; the point is that lots of professional creators are increasingly interacting/using fandom without the first clue of what the normal dynamic-- it's quite a bit like being colonized... or gentrified... or something.
It's like... not joining a community but using a community [for promotion & attention alone]; it's like a middle schooler coming to sit on a kindergarten playground & selling cookies. I mean, the kiddies love the cookies, but the weirdness of that big person sitting in your sandbox is still quite disconcerting and even disturbing, it seems to me.
PS: Oh, and there's the weirdness of knowing the foibles/personality quirks of person behind the story, too, which isn't there in fandom but seems to confuse 'normal' types of reading. It's like, I don't want to wonder if such-and-such is why such-a-character acted like so-and-so or whatever. Just reading interviews or even biographies isn't the same as seeing everyday interactions in terms of... giving an immediate [too immediate] impression. Like... I don't think I'll be able to read Peg Kerr's books [which are normally just up my alley] until I've totally half-forgotten my impressions of her on lj. Even though they were pretty much neutral impressions. I just feel like... I know too much, and also the heavy pushing by fellow fangirls [peer-pressure] seriously turns me off. This is just me, though.
~~
If you comment on this post:
[meme brought to you by
ishuca & the Letter C]1. I’ll respond with something random about you.
2. I’ll challenge you to try something.
3. I’ll pick a color that I associate with you.
4. I’ll tell you something I like about you.
5. I’ll tell you my first/clearest memory of you.
6. I’ll tell you what animal you remind me of.
7. I’ll ask you something I’ve always wanted to ask you.
8. If I do this for you, you must post this on yours.
~~
...Okay, now I can start packing to move to bloody Seattle *___*
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no subject
Date: 2006-09-21 06:02 pm (UTC)I dunno, I have somewhat of a different reaction to author blogs (not that I bother to read many of them much).
Yeah, I totally agree that when an author/actor/pro-creator-type sets up a website or a blog just as an extension of their fanclub, or only uses it to pimp their stuff -- I'm not very interested in that. I hate feeling like a groupie too, and I'll run a mile to get away from that BS. And I'm not interested in anybody in any context who thinks they're All That and who treats other people like ignorant minions, or who barges into a group without a clue as to proper behavior and makes an ass of themselves.
And I also totally agree that a work of art (story or whatever) should stand on its own, and sometimes knowing about the creator's personal life kind of sullies one's enjoyment of their work, is distracting, etc.
That said -- I don't have any issues with professional-creatives who want to get an LJ/blog and really talk with people about their work, or about the writing process, or their genre in general, or whatever.
Yeah, if they're famous or rich or something, there's a power differential, but handling that requires people on both sides to behave well (ie, no god complex from the creative, and no groveling from the fan types). But there's nothing inherently wrong with that. A cat can look at a king, and I can give my (polite) opinion to the friggin' Queen of England if she's got a blog and is inviting comments, and I'm thus inclined to say anything.
So I don't see why it's not possible to have a real dialogue with interested and well-behaved pro creators. I understand why some of the pro types would be interested in talking with other people about the stuff they love best, and be interested in hearing other opinions -- esp from "amateur" people who love the stuff, rather than other professionals who may have their own axes to grind.
Certainly there are other places in society where people mingle across pro-and-amateur lines, rich-and-not-rich lines, published-and-not-published, etc, and it works just fine. My husband loves photography and hangs out with some groups that have both pro and amateur photogs. There are plenty of people in other professions than writing -- business, arts, design, intellectual property are a few that I know about personally -- where some pros have blogs and chat with like-minded people about their area of interest, and it's a genuine discussion and not just pimping and entouraging.
I guess I don't believe there's some uncrossable dividing line between "those pro people who do this stuff for a living" and "the rest of us." Yeah, some pros are self-promoting jerks, but some people anywhere are self-promoting jerks. And some fans are crazy, but some people anywhere are crazy. Still seems like there's room for some people to have a good discussion.
Oh well, just my two cents...
no subject
Date: 2006-09-21 06:21 pm (UTC)Oh yeah... I'm actually chagrined now 'cause I kind of... forgot normal reasonable people like that exist, haha. Silly of me. I've had one too many encounters with the other variety, and it's really put me off. I do remember [vaguely] seeing other authors who seemed on the level, down-to-earth, etc, awhile ago-- the difference is actually that in that case I sought out their lj, whereas in these recent case I was hanging out in -my- joints on ljland & -they- came to -us-.
That's the big difference, really; why I made the post. It's not like I go looking for whackos and then get upset; it's more like they go looking for -us-, and the ones that go looking are the ones more likely to be all about self-promotion/self-obsession/power-trips, y'know? The quiet reasonable ones are probably unlikely to draw attention to them being published, so it's possible I wouldn't even know if I talked to one! Of course the likelihood of me even knowing the person is published/etc is way increased if they're self-promoting & acting like an arse, come to think of it.
So I definitely didn't mean there isn't always room for discussion, and neither did I mean to imply that a power-differential kills all prospect for dialogue 'cause I'm so painfully power-conscious somehow; I'm not. It's when someone else is uber-conscious of their so-called status that I can't seem to feel comfortable with their presence; granted, people in fandom do that too, but it's a lot easier to snort or laugh it off or whatever in fandom, 'cause they're not constantly referring to 'the facts' and their supposed 'back-up' of being Published Authors or whatever.
There's definitely no uncrossable dividing line, and as long as everyone agrees on that, discussion is possible. However, people with such a civilized pov are likely to sit quietly in their corner and not give me [as a rather fannishly self-contained person] as many opportunities for discussion, ironically.
no subject
Date: 2006-09-22 12:24 am (UTC)Kind of like when you answer the doorbell and there's some religious type there. Um, no, I'm really not interested in your religion. I'm at home minding my own business, and you're the one bugging me, so go away.
For some reason, this whole discussion kinda reminds me of some of those grass-roots advertising programs where a company pays ordinary people to mention their product in everyday conversations on the sly with their friends. Boy that so turns me off...the second I find out that a friend of mine was on the take using my time for their shilling some product, I will dump their ass so fast.
I guess it reminds me because it's that whole trust and relationship thing that you alluded to in your post. It's weird and rude when somebody shows up in your personal life space and blatantly pimps for something. Like getting spam shoved in your face. I don't like it in my email and I don't like it on LJ or in person.
anything thanks for an interesting discussion and for letting me blather all over your LJ!