[yet again, the special feminist hell.]
Dec. 13th, 2005 08:02 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaLadies and gentlemen, we've arrived at an equation: reading this post about the Hot Gimmick manga (which apparently has a much more abusive male main character than I previously realized), I've come across this comment:
Intellectual intelligence + emotional disconnection & inexperience + vulnerability = oh yes. Fictional kink.
Ahhhh. Everything just seems so much more... uh, pleasant when you make it an equation. Well, or not. But. Me? That? Yes.
It's very hard for me to really come to grips with the 'special feminist hell' of liking characters that by all rights I want to thwap. Well, I mean, I do want to thwap them, but that's why I like them. I mean, if that doesn't make sense-- er, it probably shouldn't, to most (lucky?? non-teenage-girl??) people. Er. I mean, I come across people ranting about their hated 'asshole' or 'bitch' characters all the time (whether it be Ginny or Sirius or uh, Harry); conversely, the characters most people seem to love, they praise as being 'good', generally, in whatever terms. I think people just kind of don't mention (or aren't self-aware enough to mention) when the characters they're addicted and love to the most are... well. One doesn't need to hate them to see how messed up/violent/scary/annoying(?) they are.
I think in most cases we think of kinks in terms of scenarios & pairings & uh, sex, but there's definitely also that wonderful category of 'characters'. Not as in 'characters we love to hate' but rather 'characters we should actually quarantine, but god they're hot'. And again to be more specific, I don't mean the people who like Lucius Malfoy but realize he's 'ev01' or something, because he can be theoretically 'not a nice person' or 'have the wrong philosophy' but be great to you as a potential partner (in fact, most het-shippers seem to think he loves Narcissa and most slashers seem to think he's-- uh, well, generally I think it's 'he loves Narcissa but he has manly needs').
It's different altogether when the character is actually v. likely to be an asshole to you, yes you dear reader, and probably anyone of your gender or the other who was unlucky enough to be involved with him.
It really only bothers me, though, when people assume liking this character = approving of their behavior in real life. But then, every time (nearly every. single. time.) I see someone complain about a character's behavior, there's a 'this would be Really Bad If It Were Real' parallel involved. Perhaps that's only natural and also the basic appeal of (realistic?) fiction-- to be a commentary on our lives; at the same time, there's a lot of leeway sometimes given to 'kink' when it involves types of sexuality or 'crack' gimmicks like wings or mpreg that usually isn't given to, well, actual normal human interactions. Probably because without realism on -that- level, the story just isn't relatable or interesting to most people.
I think most 'typical' shoujo/Harlequin-romance type stories are really a type of kink-- they're basically untranslatable to 'real' terms no matter how much they try to pretend they are. You can talk till you're blue in the face about how this reminds you of the relationship Joe and Jill had, but in the end it's just not the same because in fiction, that time he hit Jill and was a total asshole and never mentioned it later and she didn't leave him and you wanted to just deck them both and yell at them to move to different states? In (girl) fiction, he probably cried into his pillow and felt lonely and awful and didn't know why, and he Really Loved Her and eventually got to see the Error of His Ways, and admitted he Wasn't Worthy of Her, and, and and.... She wasn't scarred for life, and she didn't have an abortion when she was seventeen, and he didn't fall in love with a cheerleader from Memphis a year later, and he didn't just use her for sex and lie to her, and he didn't develop a bald patch at 25, and he didn't get that job at 7Eleven that went on and on even though he kept saying he'll apply for college soon, etcetc.
I think the one unifying thing about stories with these guys, no matter how 'realistic' they are or claim to be in any other aspect, is that they are utterly divorced from any reality where the guy isn't worth it because he's just mediocre, basically. Whatever else he is, he's not that. He's gorgeous and rich, or he's got special powers and he's Really Cute, or he's just got this Attitude that lights up a room and oozes sex appeal down several highways into a whole slew of neighboring states-- or maybe he just loves you. Not just says he loves you (because he probably doesn't, unlike that good-for-nothing 'real life' boyfriend who probably did and didn't mean it, which is the Worst Sin Ever)-- but Really Loves You. But whatever it is, it's BIG. Larger than life. Because the thing these stories imply by omission, basically, is that Life? Life Sucks.
That's the major conceit-- the major thing any feminist reading would overlook. You have to take this as a given, if you're going to be a happy reader: That Guy Needs Work. It's like buying one of those run-down Victorian houses that leak, stink, have no working bathroom, air-conditioning or natural ventilation. But you just look at it and -know- (you KNOW) it's secretly absolutely gorgeous, and you (only you!) have the genius-- the vision-- the balls to see it through to its natural shine. Or possibly your grandma died and left you with the house and you have no place to go and it's really not that bad once you put some flowers up... really.... (In real life, this works a lot better with houses than people, most especially insecure assholes.)
Anyway, I dunno what my point is. I just think that any ethical or feminist (which is another way of saying 'ethical', isn't it) reading is going to have to take into account that by its very nature, this type of story exists outside all that. Now, either you can swallow it or you can't (and often enough I can't swallow it, personally, especially when the power-play gets too skewed in the direction of Big Dom Man and Little Needy Sub-- way too oily, upsets my stomach). But at the same time, applying ethical readings to it is like poking a child with sticks or something-- of course it'll leave bruises. It's not made for defensive maneuvers, and you'll squash it if you poke too hard.
That said-- sometimes coming across these type of dynamics in fics where I wouldn't expect them turns me way, way WAY OFF (sayyyyy... Harry/Draco fanfics where Draco is Big Strong Dom-- GAG ME NOW!!1). But it turns me off and I found it OOC and wrong for the characters, but in that 'they'd never do that' way rather than 'they shouldn't do that'. But then I'm oversensitive to the word 'should'... just a smidgeon or two....
Intellectual intelligence + emotional disconnection & inexperience + vulnerability = oh yes. Fictional kink.
Ahhhh. Everything just seems so much more... uh, pleasant when you make it an equation. Well, or not. But. Me? That? Yes.
It's very hard for me to really come to grips with the 'special feminist hell' of liking characters that by all rights I want to thwap. Well, I mean, I do want to thwap them, but that's why I like them. I mean, if that doesn't make sense-- er, it probably shouldn't, to most (lucky?? non-teenage-girl??) people. Er. I mean, I come across people ranting about their hated 'asshole' or 'bitch' characters all the time (whether it be Ginny or Sirius or uh, Harry); conversely, the characters most people seem to love, they praise as being 'good', generally, in whatever terms. I think people just kind of don't mention (or aren't self-aware enough to mention) when the characters they're addicted and love to the most are... well. One doesn't need to hate them to see how messed up/violent/scary/annoying(?) they are.
I think in most cases we think of kinks in terms of scenarios & pairings & uh, sex, but there's definitely also that wonderful category of 'characters'. Not as in 'characters we love to hate' but rather 'characters we should actually quarantine, but god they're hot'. And again to be more specific, I don't mean the people who like Lucius Malfoy but realize he's 'ev01' or something, because he can be theoretically 'not a nice person' or 'have the wrong philosophy' but be great to you as a potential partner (in fact, most het-shippers seem to think he loves Narcissa and most slashers seem to think he's-- uh, well, generally I think it's 'he loves Narcissa but he has manly needs').
It's different altogether when the character is actually v. likely to be an asshole to you, yes you dear reader, and probably anyone of your gender or the other who was unlucky enough to be involved with him.
It really only bothers me, though, when people assume liking this character = approving of their behavior in real life. But then, every time (nearly every. single. time.) I see someone complain about a character's behavior, there's a 'this would be Really Bad If It Were Real' parallel involved. Perhaps that's only natural and also the basic appeal of (realistic?) fiction-- to be a commentary on our lives; at the same time, there's a lot of leeway sometimes given to 'kink' when it involves types of sexuality or 'crack' gimmicks like wings or mpreg that usually isn't given to, well, actual normal human interactions. Probably because without realism on -that- level, the story just isn't relatable or interesting to most people.
I think most 'typical' shoujo/Harlequin-romance type stories are really a type of kink-- they're basically untranslatable to 'real' terms no matter how much they try to pretend they are. You can talk till you're blue in the face about how this reminds you of the relationship Joe and Jill had, but in the end it's just not the same because in fiction, that time he hit Jill and was a total asshole and never mentioned it later and she didn't leave him and you wanted to just deck them both and yell at them to move to different states? In (girl) fiction, he probably cried into his pillow and felt lonely and awful and didn't know why, and he Really Loved Her and eventually got to see the Error of His Ways, and admitted he Wasn't Worthy of Her, and, and and.... She wasn't scarred for life, and she didn't have an abortion when she was seventeen, and he didn't fall in love with a cheerleader from Memphis a year later, and he didn't just use her for sex and lie to her, and he didn't develop a bald patch at 25, and he didn't get that job at 7Eleven that went on and on even though he kept saying he'll apply for college soon, etcetc.
I think the one unifying thing about stories with these guys, no matter how 'realistic' they are or claim to be in any other aspect, is that they are utterly divorced from any reality where the guy isn't worth it because he's just mediocre, basically. Whatever else he is, he's not that. He's gorgeous and rich, or he's got special powers and he's Really Cute, or he's just got this Attitude that lights up a room and oozes sex appeal down several highways into a whole slew of neighboring states-- or maybe he just loves you. Not just says he loves you (because he probably doesn't, unlike that good-for-nothing 'real life' boyfriend who probably did and didn't mean it, which is the Worst Sin Ever)-- but Really Loves You. But whatever it is, it's BIG. Larger than life. Because the thing these stories imply by omission, basically, is that Life? Life Sucks.
That's the major conceit-- the major thing any feminist reading would overlook. You have to take this as a given, if you're going to be a happy reader: That Guy Needs Work. It's like buying one of those run-down Victorian houses that leak, stink, have no working bathroom, air-conditioning or natural ventilation. But you just look at it and -know- (you KNOW) it's secretly absolutely gorgeous, and you (only you!) have the genius-- the vision-- the balls to see it through to its natural shine. Or possibly your grandma died and left you with the house and you have no place to go and it's really not that bad once you put some flowers up... really.... (In real life, this works a lot better with houses than people, most especially insecure assholes.)
Anyway, I dunno what my point is. I just think that any ethical or feminist (which is another way of saying 'ethical', isn't it) reading is going to have to take into account that by its very nature, this type of story exists outside all that. Now, either you can swallow it or you can't (and often enough I can't swallow it, personally, especially when the power-play gets too skewed in the direction of Big Dom Man and Little Needy Sub-- way too oily, upsets my stomach). But at the same time, applying ethical readings to it is like poking a child with sticks or something-- of course it'll leave bruises. It's not made for defensive maneuvers, and you'll squash it if you poke too hard.
That said-- sometimes coming across these type of dynamics in fics where I wouldn't expect them turns me way, way WAY OFF (sayyyyy... Harry/Draco fanfics where Draco is Big Strong Dom-- GAG ME NOW!!1). But it turns me off and I found it OOC and wrong for the characters, but in that 'they'd never do that' way rather than 'they shouldn't do that'. But then I'm oversensitive to the word 'should'... just a smidgeon or two....
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no subject
Date: 2005-12-14 05:03 am (UTC)...Well, there's always the fic where he wears these nice long
pantyhosenightie... this nice fluffy, manly bathrobe, maybe with a pink tie dangling by the sides (as he sneers and ripples his manly muscles), and does his best come-hither look as Harry cowers by the pillows, hugging his knees to his chest and whispering, 'be gentle, my love...!..!!'....okay, now I've seriously disturbed myself, but it was all for the sake of (your) Arte!!1
no subject
Date: 2005-12-14 05:16 am (UTC)!!! Are you serious? Oh, this sounds awesome. And by awesome I mean...well. Uh.
Speaking of! Kinda! I had the greatest crackfic idea the other day! Well, I sort of daydreamed it, I think. And I was like, I MUST TELL REENA SO THAT WE CAN COMPOSE IT IN ALL ITS RESPLENDENT GLORY. And then I forgot. D: Life so sad. I am trying to recall it! Trying with all the might of my tiny brains!
no subject
Date: 2005-12-14 05:36 am (UTC)I wish you would recall it! For of all things, I can only write crackfic at the drop of a hat these days. Woe. But it's just not as fun writing it into the void, somehow. It's been too long, man. TOO LONG. Damn, school is almost over for the semester, right?? WE MUST DO SOMETHING!! I could be Harry & you could be Draco! Or! The other way around! But just-- something! *makes sneer!pout*
...bonus+++ points if pantyhose and/or frilly pink ties are involved. And possibly someone speaking with a drawling fake French accent (not Fleur, ahaha). Harry could be virginal and delicate, needing sex to complete his last rite to defeat Voldemort and/or also take over the world himself... Ginny could be his pimp... Ron could have a coronary... Hermione could give safe sex pointers... Draco could develop an addiction to yaoi manga smut, and so on and so forth...
no subject
Date: 2005-12-14 05:52 am (UTC)OMG I AM THINKING. A LOT. TRYING TO REMEMBER. I feel that I shall be successful! Soon! It's coming back to me slowly, so slowly, like a long-lost dream. The mists are lifting and soon Paradise shall be revealed unto me! What the fuck am I talking about? Huh.
ANYWAY. Yes. School is done, yo! I turned in my last essay this morning. :D I AM SO FULL OF GLEE YOU HAVE NO IDEA. So I am almost entirely free for...uh...3 1/2 weeks. And we can do whatever you like! I am easy. To work with. :D
Dude, you had to say about the French accent, didn't you. Because when I read that, I was listening to Lady Marmalade (I LIKE THE MOULIN ROUGE SOUNDTRACK OKAY) and I DIED OF LAUGHTER. I can so picture Harry playing the tart now that you said that. AHAHAHA OMG. He'd be all, "Voulez-vous coucher avec moi ce soir?" And Draco'd be like, "HELLS YEAH."
...Wow, we are fucking brilliant, we are. :P
no subject
Date: 2005-12-14 06:46 am (UTC)