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reenkaSeeing yet another rant on the ev01 that is unsolicited con-crit, I just have to wonder... where -is- it??! I don't see it! So where! Where! WHERE??!
...It's not just that -my- stories never get con-critted except by my close friends (sometimes rarely maybe), it's that I like -never- see con-crit on anything I read in HP on lj, and I do browse comments. Forget crit, I don't tend to see more than 5 words at a time (because typing is hard work, y'know). I sometimes get "crit" (like, 'oh, that was confusing' or 'write more' or 'omg INCEST'-- I dunno if that counts, more like flames and general grumbles I guess, but I'm desperate) on Fiction Alley, but the closest I've ever come to seeing con-crit on an HP story on lj in the last year or two was someone pointing out that a g-spot wasn't a prostate, nonono. (Even I was tempted to make an anony!comment with that one.)
...Yes, indeed. (Hello, fandom. Good-bye, fandom.)
Possibly there's all this critique going on other fandoms that I just don't see. I mean, not that it keeps me up nights, 'cause mostly I just don't -care- and find all this hilarious to the max, but... still. I realize HP fandom would implode with wank were crit to be more common, but maybe there's all this crit made on like, Snape/McGonagall stories, so of course I never see it.
Just to make it clear, I'm not really implying con-crit -helps- or anything. I just like it; I like thinking about fiction analytically, my own and others'. Keeps mah brains sharp as feathers, and so on. Um. Call me crazy, etcetc. But I do have to admit I don't really -want- con-crit, not really-- what I -want- is to discuss stories, talk about them with other writers and readers. Detailed feedback is just the same as 'con-crit' to my mind, 'cause it's basically all the same anyway; any detailed feedback wouldn't be 100% positive if it was honest, so. But positive isn't the point so much as a bonus, to me.
Actually, I'm one of those people who cringe and have to admit that they don't write fanfic to improve themselves nor do they edit-- that is, I mean well and I -want- to edit and theoretically become a better person/writer/wanker/etc, but basically I don't 'cause I'm too lazy. So if you do point out something wrong with a fic of mine, odds are I'll get a happy light in my eyes, exclaim 'yes! thanks! wow, you're right!' and then never touch it again 'cause it's Too Much Effort. Though I don't have the excuse of 'but I have a -real- life to concentrate on, PLEBIANS!!1', because I don't, but still.
I just find it ironic, I guess, 'cause unsolicited con-crit is so hard to come by as to be very -very- rare and precious. Perhaps I'm just in the wrong fandom, and this one's just too big and/or has the wrong demographic and/or I picked the wrong pairing (....let's just not go there). Perhaps some people attract it more. And by 'some people' I really mean people who write long, popular fics that lots of people read so at least -some- of them would crit. Well then, I'll just be going now. Heh.
...No, no, I have to get this off my chest:
When people say they're "in this for fun"-- you see, it seems I have a different definition of 'fun' than they do, and that's fine, it's just that they don't realize that their fun is not my fun. Why does fun have to = mindless and/or pleasant? And where does that leave people for whom mindless = unpleasant?
I think the very fact that I can ask that question shows you why I never go to parties. ^^; Or, well, uh, deal well with 'groups' together with 'entertainment'.... ><;;;;; *facepalm* But that may or may not be merely a tangent. Suffice it to say, this is all about the conflict between writing as a group social activity and writing as a personal quest for [whatever]. I sort of appreciate both aspects, but it really gets to me when there are so many people going, 'but we're not really writers, we're fanfic writers, so LEAVE US ALONE-- I MEAN NO, NOT ALONE, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE NOT -LIKE- THAT, BUT--' ...Yeah -.-
...It's not just that -my- stories never get con-critted except by my close friends (sometimes rarely maybe), it's that I like -never- see con-crit on anything I read in HP on lj, and I do browse comments. Forget crit, I don't tend to see more than 5 words at a time (because typing is hard work, y'know). I sometimes get "crit" (like, 'oh, that was confusing' or 'write more' or 'omg INCEST'-- I dunno if that counts, more like flames and general grumbles I guess, but I'm desperate) on Fiction Alley, but the closest I've ever come to seeing con-crit on an HP story on lj in the last year or two was someone pointing out that a g-spot wasn't a prostate, nonono. (Even I was tempted to make an anony!comment with that one.)
...Yes, indeed. (Hello, fandom. Good-bye, fandom.)
Possibly there's all this critique going on other fandoms that I just don't see. I mean, not that it keeps me up nights, 'cause mostly I just don't -care- and find all this hilarious to the max, but... still. I realize HP fandom would implode with wank were crit to be more common, but maybe there's all this crit made on like, Snape/McGonagall stories, so of course I never see it.
Just to make it clear, I'm not really implying con-crit -helps- or anything. I just like it; I like thinking about fiction analytically, my own and others'. Keeps mah brains sharp as feathers, and so on. Um. Call me crazy, etcetc. But I do have to admit I don't really -want- con-crit, not really-- what I -want- is to discuss stories, talk about them with other writers and readers. Detailed feedback is just the same as 'con-crit' to my mind, 'cause it's basically all the same anyway; any detailed feedback wouldn't be 100% positive if it was honest, so. But positive isn't the point so much as a bonus, to me.
Actually, I'm one of those people who cringe and have to admit that they don't write fanfic to improve themselves nor do they edit-- that is, I mean well and I -want- to edit and theoretically become a better person/writer/wanker/etc, but basically I don't 'cause I'm too lazy. So if you do point out something wrong with a fic of mine, odds are I'll get a happy light in my eyes, exclaim 'yes! thanks! wow, you're right!' and then never touch it again 'cause it's Too Much Effort. Though I don't have the excuse of 'but I have a -real- life to concentrate on, PLEBIANS!!1', because I don't, but still.
I just find it ironic, I guess, 'cause unsolicited con-crit is so hard to come by as to be very -very- rare and precious. Perhaps I'm just in the wrong fandom, and this one's just too big and/or has the wrong demographic and/or I picked the wrong pairing (....let's just not go there). Perhaps some people attract it more. And by 'some people' I really mean people who write long, popular fics that lots of people read so at least -some- of them would crit. Well then, I'll just be going now. Heh.
...No, no, I have to get this off my chest:
When people say they're "in this for fun"-- you see, it seems I have a different definition of 'fun' than they do, and that's fine, it's just that they don't realize that their fun is not my fun. Why does fun have to = mindless and/or pleasant? And where does that leave people for whom mindless = unpleasant?
I think the very fact that I can ask that question shows you why I never go to parties. ^^; Or, well, uh, deal well with 'groups' together with 'entertainment'.... ><;;;;; *facepalm* But that may or may not be merely a tangent. Suffice it to say, this is all about the conflict between writing as a group social activity and writing as a personal quest for [whatever]. I sort of appreciate both aspects, but it really gets to me when there are so many people going, 'but we're not really writers, we're fanfic writers, so LEAVE US ALONE-- I MEAN NO, NOT ALONE, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE NOT -LIKE- THAT, BUT--' ...Yeah -.-
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no subject
Date: 2005-11-02 09:02 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-11-02 09:20 am (UTC)As for a beta... no, I have no beta as I believe I said. ^^;; I tend to go over my fic before posting a couple of times for typos an so on-- but if you're implying there are glaring errors I could clear up through editing that makes my fics so much inferior to the stuff that gets lots of feedback by contrast-- I mean, sure, probably there -is- something missing, and I do make a semi-conscious choice to disregard seriously trying for popularity. I don't write for other people or for feedback-- I'm vaguely bitter that I don't get as much as people who write -really- trashy stuff, but accept my fate overall.
And besides, I -would- get them beta'd but... I wouldn't work well with just anyone, and most/all of my close friends and potential betas are currently out of fandom. The fic I posted on a beta filter just recently got only one response that got cut short, and while it was somewhat helpful, it wasn't the sort of beta I'm looking for. Basically, I used to have one-- like, 2 years ago, and we wrote one fic together, and then she got busy and I never found anyone so suitable since. But I don't think I was just complaining about -myself- not getting con-crit or whatever, I was just saying I don't see -anyone- getting it in this fandom.
no subject
Date: 2005-11-02 09:27 am (UTC)Okay, no wait. First of all, you say they're not the same things, but then you say some things make you laugh and cry at the same time, without explaining which specific aspects are funny and which specific ones make you frustrated. Can you clarify it for those of us in the audience who only see contradictions (which isn't a bad thing, mind you, as long as you admit it)?
but if you're implying there are glaring errors I could clear up through editing that makes my fics so much inferior to the stuff that gets lots of feedback by contrast
No, I'm suggesting a beta could give you the feedback you want on a fic before you post it somewhere, or point out the obvious things like, "It's confusing" so you could clear up the little problems and then ask for proper concrit when you post it.
I was just saying I don't see -anyone- getting it in this fandom.
I don't anymore after HBP, which seems to have pretty much killed any serious fic-writing in the fandom unless we're talking about specific ship projects and such or writers who started epics before the book came out. I saw a lot of it before, though. And I see most of it now in relation to fanartists, who appear to be gaining a stronger hold in the fandom than when I first entered, thankfully.
Also, if you want con-crit, I recommend
no subject
Date: 2005-11-02 09:49 am (UTC)But that bit about laughing-and-crying was a theoretical aside, actually, which I later regretted, ahaha. Um. With the rant/wank... it's funny because it's stupid, too narrow-focused and repetitive, and frustrating for the same reason, as stupid things tend to be. I always readily accept my many contradictions, it's just that it all still makes the normal sort of sense in my own head, even if in no one else's, what can I say. -.-
Most of my fics aren't -quite- so confusing as my last one, but I -have- been working on my tendency for being obscure for -years- now, since I -know- it's an issue-- and I think there's been progress, comparatively, believe it or not. And it's not a question of me -fixing- things but rather liking the idea of a dialogue between reader & writer-- not saying it's realistic, just saying it would be nice. The point, as I tried to say, I believe, isn't to fix a fic or to improve my writing but just to -talk- analytically about fic, mine same as anyone's, because... I like to.
Besides this, as I said, I don't -have- an available beta anyway.... -And- I'm not really looking for one-- I wasn't talking about myself in the first place, largely. I said I'm mostly too lazy to edit because it's true. I think my fics overall have gotten 'cleaner' and/or tighter than they used to be merely through practice. Though if
Ó.o
Date: 2005-11-02 09:54 am (UTC)So you're saying you don't want concrit, you want metacrit?
haha
Date: 2005-11-02 10:04 am (UTC)In the end, what I would ideally like is a writer's workshop-type atmosphere, and I know it's unfair of me to expect it from a huge fandom like this, but it would really inspire me, and at one point I did experience something like it, near the beginning. I'm not picky about -how- you discuss a fic-- but the difference, I suppose, is mostly between discussion aimed at the writer (improving their craft and such) and the reader (to communicate with other readers and maybe the writer as well). I myself lean towards the latter, but think the two can be combined.
As I tried to say, sort of obliquely, there's an over-emphasis on crit as a tool to improve writing-- I don't believe it necessarily serves that function in all cases-- you can't count on it, in other words. But you -can- always have an interesting dialogue between readers and writers, and that's what's important to me.
Re: haha
Date: 2005-11-02 11:34 am (UTC)Okay okay. I was just getting clarification. Supposedly one of my redeeming values, or some shit.
no subject
Date: 2005-11-03 02:22 am (UTC)But I really don't know where people are getting concrit--frankly I seem to see rants about concrit far more than concrit itself! Either somebody is saying what kinds of reviews they don't like or they're saying they're bad authors and don't care, or they're defending the bad authors because their souls are more precious than good stories.
There's stuff like fanficrants, of course, but that's different.
no subject
Date: 2005-11-12 02:08 am (UTC)*sigh* I don't know what I'm babbling about, but I feel bad if for a week or so I just stop replying to comments, which I, er, sometimes do~:))
See you (and Maya) next week, btw!! :D