~~ fantasy vs. fiction.
Sep. 6th, 2005 09:56 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaTo start with, I'll take pity on those of you who read this lj for an H/D fix (I can only imagine your woe, but)-- I wrote two of the fluffy/snarky marriage(!!) snippets for Aja's ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
the_eros_affair here. One of them -with- Aja. I call it "Untitled Fluffy Snark #2". I wonder if any of you could tell which bits are mine, muwahahaha. ♥
~~
In my creative writing class, we were reading our snippets aloud today, and there was a sentence in one girl's piece: "What is the difference between fantasy and fiction?"
The answer was basically an allegory for how in fantasy, the ugly rough broken spots of reality get smoothed over and swept under the carpet-- basically, fantasy isn't going to be emotionally, empirically 'realistic'.
You know, I was thinking about this, and I suppose it's actually true of how most people fantasize, how they view fantasy-- as an escape (and I realize that yes, for me also it's an escape). It's also the reason a number of 'realistic' writers look down on fantasy: after all, it can't tell you anything real about the world or the people around you. Fantasy is around to -lie-.
It seems like we have largely abandoned the traditional uses of allegory and myth in art; the way of the fairy-tale, the art of telling-without-telling, of telling obliquely, of showing through symbol and archetype and allegorical truth. I'm naturally of the bent that predisposes me to allegorical rather than everyday or 'mundane', empirical truth, so yes, 'fantasy' is just easier for me-- which becomes clear because only one of the snippets I heard in the class was really fantastical, and even that one seemed to look down on fantasy. We as a culture see truth as so cut-and-dry a lot of times-- at least, whenever we're not collectively being superstitious and idolizing authority and power. Well. I suppose it's always been like that.
Though there's a lot of 'filler' fantasy being published, much more than there was 50 years ago, say, and tons more than 100 years ago, most of it seems somewhat... standardized and unimaginative to me. The same old recycled pseudo-medieval tropes, the same old videogame retreads, the same old theme-park atmosphere. With HP, in a lot of ways it mocks the fantasy tropes it uses, but there's something about it-- something about the sheer inventivess and silliness that does hold a sense of wonder, it seems like. Even though it -should- feel recycled, it doesn't; it seems fresh if only because of that sense of... surprise, I suppose. Possibly this is a result of them being written like detective novels along with the largely innocent protagonist, or perhaps I'm just a chump. Whatever it is, I never know what silly/weird/odd/useful/funny thing JKR's magic will do next, in the Potterverse. It's like a bag of magic tricks, base stuff really, but it sparkles in a way most fantasy books just... flicker and glow dully.
Even in fanfic for a fantasy and fanart for a fantasy series like HP, there's not a lot of truly mythical/fantastical or allegorical stuff going on. Most people just write romance (rather than romantic fantasy, say), and what fantasy is there (not counting use of 'helper' spells like love potions or Veritaserum or Apparating or silly things like Veela!Draco-- I'm talking about actually being creative within the fantasy medium) is very... um, out of place somehow. I've seen 'wicca' (used badly), I've seen old Egyptian magic (omg, no), and at best I've seen creative variations on JKR's existing spells. Regardless, for some reason none of those things read as fantasy to me at the time-- just something with fantastical elements. I dunno... maybe it's not that it wasn't fantasy so much as it wasn't very good.
Anyway, I got to thinking about all this after looking at this Michael Whelan fantasy art gallery, which you should all see if you're interested in fantasy/allegorical art at all. Whelan's really a master at his chosen themes, and looking at it would give you a sense of the sort of thing I like to see dealt with in writing, also (and I guess you could also see why it's so rare that I find what I like on that level). Maybe it's just because I'm desperate for art to really mean something; to speak to me on multiple levels, from the most base (mmm, porrrnnn!!) to the most spiritual (allegory, dammit!)
In other words, I'm always looking to see the most unreal premise portrayed in a painstakingly realistic manner-- and that's one reason I love Whelan's approach, I think. It's also why I'm so deeply frustrated with nearly all H/D fics, because once the honeymoon glow wore off, no one was really writing them realistically enough, and my desire to suspend my disbelief for anything other than (a deeper) truth really ebbed.
Or maybe I just really like this picture. And this. And this; and this.... Still and always, I hope.
the_eros_affair here. One of them -with- Aja. I call it "Untitled Fluffy Snark #2". I wonder if any of you could tell which bits are mine, muwahahaha. ♥~~
In my creative writing class, we were reading our snippets aloud today, and there was a sentence in one girl's piece: "What is the difference between fantasy and fiction?"
The answer was basically an allegory for how in fantasy, the ugly rough broken spots of reality get smoothed over and swept under the carpet-- basically, fantasy isn't going to be emotionally, empirically 'realistic'.
You know, I was thinking about this, and I suppose it's actually true of how most people fantasize, how they view fantasy-- as an escape (and I realize that yes, for me also it's an escape). It's also the reason a number of 'realistic' writers look down on fantasy: after all, it can't tell you anything real about the world or the people around you. Fantasy is around to -lie-.
It seems like we have largely abandoned the traditional uses of allegory and myth in art; the way of the fairy-tale, the art of telling-without-telling, of telling obliquely, of showing through symbol and archetype and allegorical truth. I'm naturally of the bent that predisposes me to allegorical rather than everyday or 'mundane', empirical truth, so yes, 'fantasy' is just easier for me-- which becomes clear because only one of the snippets I heard in the class was really fantastical, and even that one seemed to look down on fantasy. We as a culture see truth as so cut-and-dry a lot of times-- at least, whenever we're not collectively being superstitious and idolizing authority and power. Well. I suppose it's always been like that.
Though there's a lot of 'filler' fantasy being published, much more than there was 50 years ago, say, and tons more than 100 years ago, most of it seems somewhat... standardized and unimaginative to me. The same old recycled pseudo-medieval tropes, the same old videogame retreads, the same old theme-park atmosphere. With HP, in a lot of ways it mocks the fantasy tropes it uses, but there's something about it-- something about the sheer inventivess and silliness that does hold a sense of wonder, it seems like. Even though it -should- feel recycled, it doesn't; it seems fresh if only because of that sense of... surprise, I suppose. Possibly this is a result of them being written like detective novels along with the largely innocent protagonist, or perhaps I'm just a chump. Whatever it is, I never know what silly/weird/odd/useful/funny thing JKR's magic will do next, in the Potterverse. It's like a bag of magic tricks, base stuff really, but it sparkles in a way most fantasy books just... flicker and glow dully.
Even in fanfic for a fantasy and fanart for a fantasy series like HP, there's not a lot of truly mythical/fantastical or allegorical stuff going on. Most people just write romance (rather than romantic fantasy, say), and what fantasy is there (not counting use of 'helper' spells like love potions or Veritaserum or Apparating or silly things like Veela!Draco-- I'm talking about actually being creative within the fantasy medium) is very... um, out of place somehow. I've seen 'wicca' (used badly), I've seen old Egyptian magic (omg, no), and at best I've seen creative variations on JKR's existing spells. Regardless, for some reason none of those things read as fantasy to me at the time-- just something with fantastical elements. I dunno... maybe it's not that it wasn't fantasy so much as it wasn't very good.
Anyway, I got to thinking about all this after looking at this Michael Whelan fantasy art gallery, which you should all see if you're interested in fantasy/allegorical art at all. Whelan's really a master at his chosen themes, and looking at it would give you a sense of the sort of thing I like to see dealt with in writing, also (and I guess you could also see why it's so rare that I find what I like on that level). Maybe it's just because I'm desperate for art to really mean something; to speak to me on multiple levels, from the most base (mmm, porrrnnn!!) to the most spiritual (allegory, dammit!)
In other words, I'm always looking to see the most unreal premise portrayed in a painstakingly realistic manner-- and that's one reason I love Whelan's approach, I think. It's also why I'm so deeply frustrated with nearly all H/D fics, because once the honeymoon glow wore off, no one was really writing them realistically enough, and my desire to suspend my disbelief for anything other than (a deeper) truth really ebbed.
Or maybe I just really like this picture. And this. And this; and this.... Still and always, I hope.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2005-09-07 08:30 am (UTC)I think JKR's world works because it's 3-dimensional and solid, and within that the characters have an incredible psychological reality. As a reader, you think it's easy until you look at something else. and it's the balance of those things plus the mega-plot, I think, that keeps people so involved.
I read an adult novel which could be classed as fantasy in some respects, The Vintner's Luck (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0099273896/qid=1126081592/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/202-3917622-7370213), and again it's that balance of the real with the fantastical that's so hard to get right.
PS I don't usually like fantasy art - for all the reasons mentioned - but those are lovely.
no subject
Date: 2005-09-07 09:15 am (UTC)I'm just doomed with HP fic 'cause I'd -like- plot and fantasy elements and things, but not as much as I'd like the 'right' H/D relationship (I think I have something like a list in my head of the 10 zillion things I'd like a fic not to do with Harry and/or Draco). Although I sell out big-time for snark, smut and
Mayaum... snarky!Draco -in- smut :D I did like Transfigurations for the magic bits and the Harry, even though the Draco was... oh maaannnn ><;;I do think most people 'buy' into the Potterverse for the characters, but I actually really like things like the Department of Mysteries, the love room, horcruxes, the zombies in the water, etcetc. Not so much that it keeps me involved (it's really just Harry who keeps me), but it evokes a sense of the fantastic, that childlike excitement of 'oooh, shiny!!'-- but maybe that's just me, not saying it isn't.
And I'm so happy you like Michael Whelan! Though the realm of fantasy art is in itself huge & multifaceted :>
no subject
Date: 2005-09-07 09:42 am (UTC)It's not a tragic tale, although in the sense that you're left musing about life, age and death, it's not a barrel of laughs either. Melancholy, I think. 'Lucifer has theories.' Guh.
no subject
Date: 2005-09-07 09:47 am (UTC)I will get around to it! Well, mostly it's the lack of actual gay consummation/romance. I dunno. So few books in the fanfic ouvre, it is sad. Or perhaps not, actually :))
no subject
Date: 2005-09-07 09:56 am (UTC)There's some of that, too. Mwahahaha.
Have you read Mary Renault's The Charioteer (modern, set in wartime England)? Not fantasy, but the most fabulous romantic story, which happens to be gay - and for once, it's all about the relationships/the romance, and not really about coming out/being struck down. I haven't read any of the ancient greek ones, but this was wonderful. The first chapter or two are practically in code (it was written in the early 1950s), and then it opens up into a complex, gripping tale.
no subject
Date: 2005-09-07 10:16 am (UTC)I was also thinking about renting a (gay-themed) British movie about a professor and a boxer, ahahahh. Oh man.
no subject
Date: 2005-09-07 11:35 am (UTC)OMG, I was looking at "As Meat Loves Salt" the other day on Amazon. It was on some slasher's rec list or something. Is it
hotgood?no subject
Date: 2005-09-07 11:36 am (UTC)OMFG HOTgood!! :Dno subject
Date: 2005-09-07 11:40 am (UTC)I'll still respect you in the morningbut unless I hit the alcoholic cough medicine/NyQuil (of which I have none in the house XD) I don't think I'll be able to continue such a meta-meta-discussion XD. Might in the morning, though, when you're in bed/working/studying/UNABLE TO REPLY SO MUCH YOU FREAK OF META-NATURE! No really, I still love you, and our wonderful discussions, just, yeah. *molests your icon and runs off snottily*no subject
Date: 2005-09-07 10:31 pm (UTC)The hero has to make a choice between two different kinds of men/love: between romantic attraction for someone who may not even be gay, versus someone who is much more upfront, sexual and part of gay subculture. Oh and there's a background theme of conscientious objection vs. fighting. All very subtle.
As meat loves salt- sounds interesting...
no subject
Date: 2005-09-07 10:38 pm (UTC)...Maybe it's just the nature of fanfic... we're starting off with 'presumed straight' for all of them, it would probably hit too close to home to actually follow through and have unrequited love be because one of them just -can't- be queered even if they get really close & 'love' the other person... or something.... Hmm.