~~ of death and Harry Potter.

[reenka]

I love Snape.

I just want to put that out there, because it needs to be said.

Much as Draco's my pissy little princess (whom I alternately adore and want to torture), and Harry's my heart in HP, Snape.... He's like that prickly, growly, antisocial hateful bastard you want to dislike but can't, because he's too brilliant and torn and stubborn and loyal and desperately lost. And the most awful thing about him is that he's not nearly as awful as he tries to be. Oh Snape. A lot of the attractions of Tom, but without the raging sociopathy.

I suspect it's only his fanon that was holding me back before.


Also, Harry's infatuation with book!Snape is quite as strong as his obsession with Draco, though much more, uh, subtextual (hardy har har). I just can't help but respond to the sheer scope of the tragedy brewing for Snape & Harry, the way Dumbledore meant so much to them both & how loyal they both are, the way they're sparks & cinders and pretty much the guiding forces of the light. Hopefully they'll meet in the middle, because otherwise the explosion would likely be disastrous.
~~

After looking (once again, against my better judgment) at amanuensis1's post, I couldn't not collect my thoughts about about Harry & Sirius.

Similarly, I read fabularasa's amazing post about Snape & Dumbledore (the subject most gripping to me at the moment, it seems), and there's this summation of the major theme in HP:
    How do we think about death? How much do we fear death? Should we fear it at all? Should we seek to stave it off? And how?

I wish I could pinpoint the places in the book where all this is broken down, but the more I think about it, the more I feel that yes, this book dealt with Harry's feelings about Sirius, in a somewhat roundabout and symbolic fashion.

    One of the things I wanted the most out of book 5 fanfic was to see Harry deal with Sirius, so of course I wanted it from the actual book 6, too. And I do believe that it was rationalized away & almost explained away rather anviliciously, with Dumbledore just approving Harry's grown-up resolution not to let Sirius down by grieving for him too much. However! However...

Yes. The point is the journey away from fear of death & towards acceptance of unconditional (non-romantic) love. That is easily the most meta over-arching theme of the books. And I think that framed in that context, the apparent senselessness of Cedric's and Dumbledore's & Sirius's deaths recedes-- because they chose what they did, whatever the consequences. Cedric chose to stick with Harry. Sirius left 12 Grimmauld because he wanted to take that risk-- heedlessly, recklessly, but full of spirit & protectiveness and the love for life (and Harry) which sustained him. Basically, Sirius wanted to live for a specific purpose ever since Azkaban, and I don't think that diminished after he got out. Sirius lived for Harry no less than Lily died for him, and I can maybe see how instinctively, Harry could realize (at some point) that death could be a gift as much as life can.
    And Dumbledore chose to give up his life for the greater good as well, ensuring Snape's position with the Dark Lord & protecting Draco and giving Harry the last boost he could.

Harry's not ready to accept that yet, of course, but he's on his way. I think... yes.
    Basically, I think though it seems Harry's not dealing with Sirius, he -is- dealing with death itself as it constantly manifests in his life; if nothing else, the strong theme of horcruxes and the Inferi are blatantly part of that, nevermind Dumbledore's demise at Snape's hands and Harry's delayed reaction at the funeral. He actually -cried-, and I don't think it was only for Dumbledore that he was crying. It was for himself, and for Hogwarts, and for Sirius, and as the book says, for his lost chances. The thing he mourned the most with Sirius wasn't so much their established relationship (of which they had little), but all the chances he'd lost for one. And once he thought of his lost chance to tell Dumbledore things-- to ask Dumbledore how he learned to speak Mermish-- that's when he cried.

    Dumbledore was his last connection to that childhood sense of security he'd never quite had before Hogwarts just as Sirius was his last connection to his old dream of family & stability. Harry's response to Sirius's death was to let go of childhood (and the attendant neediness), it seems like, as much as it was to realize what he -does- have, and what he's not willing to let go of. He knows exactly what he's fighting for now, and I believe in book 7 he'll realize what he's -not- fighting -against-, and that is death.

It just-- seems so clear that the funeral wasn't just about Dumbledore for Harry-- it was much more metaphorically significant than that. It was Harry letting go-- coming to terms with being alone, with being on a dark path he's determined (rather than afraid or otherwise disinclined) to travel, yet with still looking forward to sunlight and the companionship of his youth. Harry's still Harry-- still raging at any injustice, still obsessively needing to -know-, still demanding of absolute loyalty to the point of the ridiculous, still awkward but with a finer edge. He thinks more, defines his boundaries more, is more sure of his own power rather than allowing others to blind him. He -chose- to follow Dumbledore to the cave because he wanted to go, and that was such a huge step to some measure of the self-awareness and control that Snape was insisting Harry needed to learn to deal with Voldemort last year.

And yes, there's lots more that could be said about the flipside-- Voldemort & fear of death, the things Harry has to learn from and avoid. For some reason, I wasn't really surprised by the horcrux development... it just all falls into place more and more. Voldemort's nature dismembers and divides and separates soul & body; Harry's (best) nature unites & is united. And I suspect that's at the heart of the love vs. fear battle, and the reason why love is so powerful a weapon against the Dark Arts-- because the definition of pure love (and you could make an argument that erotic love isn't as pure) is that it's the great Uniter.

    It's what unites Ron & Harry & Hermione in a common purpose, what makes Harry Dumbledore's man, and partly what drives Draco to desperate attempts at murder and violence (for love of his father), which is probably why Dumbledore wants to save Draco so much. At base, Draco's actions in HBP are motivated by love no less than Harry's in regards to his friends-- that's why he's an innocent; and, I believe, even Snape's murder was driven by love as well as responsibility, which is why it was so painful and repugnant to him.
    I suspect that if murder tears your soul, unconditional love like one has for friends & family is what strengthens it & helps it endure the unendurable. I think that even Draco, weak as he's shown to be, endures for the sake of those he loves, and that in itself redeems him in Dumbledore's eyes, I think, just as it's the lack of such soul-binding that condemns Tom Riddle.
~~

Also, omg!! Aaaah, kungfooqueen's H/D art is killing me dead! The snarky love and the fantasy AU love and the canon love through the years and OMG OMG the HBP love!!
    And half-nekkid!Draco is just. Um. Yeah. *fans self* Really makes me wanna write H/D like whoa o_0

And djinniyah's spoilery H/D art is like. Well. If you love H/D even a little, this'll probably make you squee in a frighteningly loud manner. Ahem.

Comments

[jennifus.livejournal.com]

You know, I never really liked Snape all that much... I was pretty indifferent... I like the Movie!Snape, but that's because I totally fangirl Alan Rickman. But, despite the fact that I have... issues... with HBP, for some reason, the book totally clicked the Snape light on in my head, and now I can't get enough of him.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I always found Snape interesting, but not like... utterly fascinating and riveting before this book. There's just so much... roiling and boiling and ambiguity within him and about him & he's pretty much one of the central pivotal characters as much as Ron & Hermione are at this point, I think, and it's just. I think I'm still reeling from the Snape, yeah.

[cercaluna.livejournal.com]

Voldemort's nature dismembers and divides and separates soul & body; Harry's (best) nature unites & is united. And I suspect that's at the heart of the love vs. fear battle, and the reason why love is so powerful a weapon against the Dark Arts-- because the definition of pure love (and you could make an argument that erotic love isn't as pure) is that it's the great Uniter.

I love this point, it's beautiful. I was just re-reading the chapter where Dumbledore talks to Harry about the power of love, and it's just - I love this point. And I also, I realized, love how staunchly Dumbledore sticks to the fact that love, the power of love, this compassion, this human emotion, is more powerful than the darkest magic there is. Because it emphasizes that no, magic can't do everything. Magic doesn't make wizards elevated over those without magic, because the power of love, which we all possess, is still greater. Wah. <3 JKR.

Also, the fact that Sectumsempra - the spell that splits Draco open, to put it crudely - is healed by Snape, which is almost like him uniting after dividing, isn't it? Of course he's the one to dash in and save Draco from what might have been his own spell. (Or might not have been, but he's the one who alerted Harry to it, so either way.) It is, like the things he has done for Dumbledore after being a Death Eater, a sort of reparation.

And once he thought of his lost chance to tell Dumbledore things-- to ask Dumbledore how he learned to speak Mermish-- that's when he cried.

That's when I cried, too. :((

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Snape is all about the secret support & guidance in this book, and possibly in all the books-- I mean. I just about -died- when he was telling Harry to close his mind & not vocalize his spells at the end, etc, teaching him, trying to help him even as Harry was casting hexes at him, and. WAH. From the beginning, Snape's whole job in this book was to protect and repair be the last ditch support, and both Harry & Draco have misunderstood it because of just... how he has to work and who he is and. AAAH SNAPE :(( I just have this feeling that in the end, Snape will be Harry's (and Draco's) strongest and staunchest ally against Voldemort-- there's pretty much the Trio and Snape now, really, with the big jobs to do. I just get all fuzzy even thinking about it.

I don't think Snape operates out of love so much as honor and loyalty, though. It's a tricky thing. He's an interesting, ambiguous character because he doesn't necessarily have purity or love on his side, only the desire to do good. OH SNAPE :((

The Mermish bit made me cry also :(( I just can't take it, all the main characters in this book were impossible not to love.

So how's about Snape/Harry now?

[cellia.livejournal.com]

Many deep things here. Of course I will zero in on this:

He's like that prickly, growly, antisocial hateful bastard you want to dislike but can't

Or like the prickly, growly, antisocial hateful bastard you want to dislike and can. :)

I've never had a problem disliking Snape in canon. I might actually like him *more* if he ends up evil, because then his behavior would end up being less pettiness and more leaks of his eeeeevil intent.

maaaybe :D

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Yeah, yeah, uh. I was sort of ignoring those... weird people who don't like HBP!Snape... sort of like I'm avoiding most of the fandom right now :))

I never really disliked him before either, but I never -loved- him. It's just now he's so self-sacrificial and stoic and angry and dark and tortured and brilliant and Harry has a crush on the HBP and, and, and. Yeah, I liked evil!Snape in the beginning of the book, where I still thought it was possible (mostly to piss off all the Snape fans out of spite), but in the end deeply-ambiguous-yet-Dumbledore's-man!Snape is much more interesting & complex, y'know? I can never let go of the (overly) complex ones :>

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

See, and I had completely the oppiste reaction :( Remember how we talked about Rowling not cheating? I felt cheated for the first time because it was so. Very. Obvious. :(

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Oh, I totally had large issues with the handling of Sirius... I just am able to see how in a meta way, it can work and how you -could- say that Harry dealt with death this book, and it wasn't just about Dumbledore. I mean, that bit where he said it's what Sirius would have wanted was way too obvious & rationalizing, yeah, but the actual emotional arc seemed... possible when you combine it with the greater control over himself Harry had in general. It's just... a jump all around, and Sirius was part of that.

In a way, I feel there needed to be a year of adjustment between this book and book 5, but... I feel here's the 'Harry's a hero' thing comes in. He just.... had to deal, aaaand I could see how Sirius was more about possibilities than mourning for someone he was seriously emotionally bonded with. Like, it wasn't Ron-level or even Dumbledore-level, both of whom he'd known far longer. Maybe. :-?

It's cheating, but fits her universe, I guess I mean.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

Sorry for having been vague, misleading and making typos! I was not talking about Sirius (who might as well never have existed, even Tonks was not grieving but moping for Remus) but referring to the bits that you loved. I found the Snape (and to a small degree Draco, but that much less so) arc to be cheating and too blatantly obvious.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean about Draco, yeah-- like I'd said earlier, it wasn't like he was given development per se (just iven the potential for it), but rather that the earlier characteristics I saw were made much more obvious in order for Harry to see them & for the plot to advance. In that sense, the Tom bits was also obvious; in terms of characterization, you could easily make the case that the whole book is full of blatant, archetypal characterizations that paint with broad strokes and make obvious, traditional connections to stereotypes and almost caricaturish behavior types. So I sort of feel that the only people -not- too caricaturish and predictable/obvious are Harry & Snape. Harry because he has so many moods and quirks of history & behavior, and Snape because he's so ambiguous and cloaked in mystery & double-crossing of himself.

So I'm really curious what you mean about Snape, since I was often confused and befuddled by him, until I just decided to trust Dumbledore & therefore Snape.

As for Sirius... I feel Harry did mourn for him (just not enough); there were those two numb weeks before Dumbledore came, and Harry pointedly refused to speak of him (repressed) any time he was brought up, and he totally overreacted like mad to Mundungus, etc. It was always kind of in the very very far background, one of those emotions Harry was avoiding in the way he was avoiding most things not to do with anger/curiousity/adrenaline/hormones, I thought.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

Tom was obvious, as I wrote he was like a summary from a Trollope or Eliott novel (which I later discovered to be in Rowling's book shelf), but with Draco I liked that he broke his nose, that was something he did without his goons, and I can imagine your joy, and the fanart you linked to.

Yeah, Harry was complex.

But Snape was predictable. It was always 100 percent clear to me that he is not with the Death Eaters, that he is always Dumbledore's man. Never any doubt, as I tried to explain, because of the way it was written. He worked for Dd, he wanted to protect Draco, and he did it all in his role as double-spy which made him burn with rage at times. Hell, he even saved Harry from the death curse at the end, it was so. Awfully. Obvious. No grey area :(

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I think I find 'predictable' in terms of plot and motivation a different type of ambiguity than merely the emotional & character-driven, which would be based on the reasons for Snape's behavior (which we still don't know) and his inner landscape (ditto) rather than how he ends up behaving, y'know. I suppose I always do favor the inner over the outer; the outer Snape was pretty predictable, but I find the inner Snape that I can infer has gotten more complex, if that makes sense. He has more emotional background, more solidity I suppose. He seems more... real? Even as his actions remain straightforward, but then I find even Harry's actions pretty straightforward, simply because I think I 'get' Harry on a basic level.

There's a difference between a rich character & a character that's truly ambiguous. I think a certain threshold degree of richness allows for emotional ambiguity, which would be when you could hate & love at the same time, be honorable yet cruel (as Snape now can). I think Snape's different than Sirius in method-- Sirius is all impulse and drive and dedication to whatever's up in his head, Snape's all deliberation and dedication to a cause or a worthy master & control broken up by lapses of rage & hate & revulsion.

Snape just seems more interesting to me, but that's a personal reaction, totally. I find nearly all Rowling's characters to be predictable in a similar way; she writes in very clear arcs, it seems like. I think Snape's greyness is more emotional in a similar way to Slughorn's (how he teaches, how he never gives more than he has to, how he's a petty little man) rather than ethical, if that makes sense. Snape always struck me as a highly ethical man, very... rigid, y'know? He's not wishy-washy by nature, I don't think, not like Draco.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

Right, that makes sense to me.

Slughorn still is more grey than Snape because Rowling allows him to be, he's a rich character, he's good/bad like nearly all of the people, the school itself is dangerous and filled with inept teachers etc. but well, while I can see how Snape becomes more real to you in this, I think that's mostly because we get to see his house and a non-Harry pov of his life while Slughorn is just real as a character.

I'm trying, I really am, and I guess talking with you helps a little, but by stating again and again that Snape looked at them with hatred and drawing such a black (what Harry overhears and sees) and white (Dumbledore's unequivocal support and trust of and in S) picture does not work for me, no matter how much I wish it would.

PS: Not wishy-washy. Sluggy is wishy-washy. And do you also think he's got an older binding vow with Dd?

[sarahtales.livejournal.com]

Well, who doesn't love Snape?

... oh, that would be... those people who think he's evil. Right. Er. Them.

I love Snape very much, though cross-gen squick and Snape's raging unattractiveness makes me still regard the idea of Snape/Harry with unmitigated horror, and I think something truly spectacular is going to go down between Harry and Snape next book.

Of course, one of the things I love most about Snape is what I love about Draco - raging, resentful immaturity. 'Cause Harry's all like 'I KILL YOU NOW COWARD' and Snape's all like 'Don't call me a coward! YOUR DAD WAS A COWARD!' and I just expected Harry to blink and say '...and my dead father has what to do with anything, exactly? Get over it, *please*!' So random! I love Snape.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

It's like those people who think Draco's still a 2-bit villain brat. They exist!! I don't know why! It's a mystery of the, er, fandom :/

Hehe, I think I just really got fascinated with their dynamic, not necessarily in a sexual way; then again, I'm not even fascinated with H/D in a sexual way, I just sort of sexualize it for fun or something, y'know? But yes! I have this suspicion/expectation of the spectacular in book 7, and it's making my ickle toes curl! W00t! :D :D
They've just got so much -emotion- and history & issues between them now, that sex is pretty far from my mind but I still can't stop thinking about the possibilities for like... drama & stuff :D

And yes! :D Raging, resentful immaturity :D :D :D I love how needy and defensive they both are, and poor Snape with his father figure (DUMBLEDORE) just like Draco with SNAPE and omg omg. I was especially thrown by Snape trying to be all mature and professor-like one moment (telling Harry to mind his spellwork and how he should just give up on the Dark Arts, etc) and then like OMG YOU BASTARD I'M NOT A COWARD I JUST KILLED MY MENTOR :(( :(( >:O

...It was just so adorable!!1 Wheee, SNAPE :D :D :D

[sarahtales.livejournal.com]

Yes! The problem with Snape is that he deals with Harry excellently when he thinks of Harry as Harry. He's all,
SNAPE: Yes you did break the rules, I know you broke the rules, and you should be punished because you're totally not above the law.
HARRY: OMG you are so meeeean.

SNAPE: Be better at magic because you COULD BE, Potter, you lazy sod.
HARRY: You are so preeejudiced.

SNAPE: This media attention is going to ruin the boy.
HARRY: Just because I have nicer hair than you!

But some of the time he treats Harry as James, an equal and somebody he absolutely hates.

SNAPE: AAAAAAAARGH DEATH I BRING YOU DEATH I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I HATE YOU I WANT TO SMASH YOUR FACE IN USING MY OWN SPELLS AGAINST ME YOU BIG BULLY AHHHHHHH!
HARRY: ... OMG, you are actually insane.

So it's like, Snape is insane! But also, level-headed.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

HEE!! You know, I don't think you exaggerate the cuteness-- I do believe that much cuteness is actually there :D :D :D I only hope Snape doesn't die before Harry figures out he's actually insane rather than, er, unethical(???!) Um. I wonder if Harry would actually care. I hope he would.

Also, I am so pleased with myself (and my lone H/S fic of a year ago) 'cause most people totally don't write losing-it!Snape, and that's like, one of his major glories. Poor James-obsessed little man. I really hope he didn't join the DEs 'cause of James. Though I'm really starting to think the only thing that stopped him was an Unbreakable Vow to Dumbledore ^^; Whom he later actually grew loyal to. Perhaps.

[hollyxu.livejournal.com]

I think, just as it's the lack of such soul-binding that condemns Tom Riddle.

Sniffle. But a big part of the book is about understanding (and later, defeating) and not condemning Tom Riddle.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I think I meant 'condemning' in the sense 'condemns him to his fate' rather than 'condemns him in the eyes of the law' or something. But yeah.

[stellabelle.livejournal.com]

I love Snape.
OHMYGOD. SNAPE. OH, JUST. DUDE.
That is what I have to say. Because. I'm so incoherent about him right now; I can't get over it. As I was reading the part where he killed Dumbledore, I was like, oh, how could you, how, they trusted you. And then it HIT me, that wasn't it at all, it wasn't betrayal, and ohgodohgod. And when he was running away from the castle and Harry was throwing hexes at him and Snape kept blocking him and, just, oh. For both of them.

(I just finished reading today, can you tell? REEEENAAAAA EEEeeeeeEEEEE! Also, what has happened to my brain? It won't calm down! Perhaps I'll be coherent? Soon? And able to do more than splutter? Because there's MORE. Oh, Draco. !!!!! And. Just. Harry. MAN. I'ma stop drinking this caffeine now.)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Yeah, totally!!1 I was really incoherent throughout the book, and-- JKR keeps throwing my emotions about Snape around. I don't trust him, and then I trust him, and then I don't trust him, and I -have- to trust Dumbledore's judgment, I just have to. And that bit at the end, where he's trying to teach Harry the proper way to duel, it's just. And Harry having his little crush on his brilliant Half-blood prince, and how he learned to enjoy potions when it was Snape but not, y'know, -Snape-, and just how many possibilities would be lost if he did kill Snape and only find out he might actually have admired the man later. Ahhhh.

...Let's just say that if I'm wrong & Snape is evil, I would be -very- upset ^^;;

Coherency's not all it's cracked up to be, though :>

[stellabelle.livejournal.com]

I KNOW I KNOW. AUGH. I think...it's funny, because I just didn't like/trust Snape for the first four books, and then, after being allowed a little insight into his life in OotP, I...like, I felt more for him (although at the same time, I didn't). And from the very beginning of HBP, I didn't trust him, but I wanted to. And the time I finally did trust him was when Dumbledore said he 'had his reason', and I just trust Dumbledore so much. (Actually, the time I fully trusted Snape was when he killed Dumbledore, which is so crazy, but it makes SO MUCH SENSE. At least to my lame brain. BECAUSE. I think they both knew it was going to go like that; I think they'd spoken about it or something, and just...I think Dumbledore said to protect Draco and Harry at all costs and I always knew Dumbledore was going to die protecting Harry, anyway, and wah I'm babbling again!) ANYway. I don't even think I like Snape, but I love him, except I don't, except I do. It's very complicated, haha. But I think he's so intriguing, and I think, now, I've only just realized how incredibly brilliant/powerful he is.

He won't be evil. At least, I definitely don't forsee it. I have theories, but they're half-brained (as usual!) and boring. So. But.

(Also, I'm full of Draco love, too, because I was worried JKR would develop him in some non-linear fashion or something, I don't know WHY I thought that. But, just, it was PERFECT. He's being used and he's cowardly still and terrified. And he broke Harry's nose, man, he broke his fucking NOSE, and. HOLY SHIT. !!! I'm not surprised, because I hoped it would be this way, but, heee. So happy!)

[asynca.livejournal.com]

I'm still happily wrapped up in a cloak of denial, which reads: POLYJUICE POTION.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I'm... confused o_0

[asynca.livejournal.com]

Probably because in my infinite genius I replied to the wrong part of the thread.

Despite all the character evidence to the contrary - I plan to continue to tell myself that it wasn't Snape who killed dumbledore after all, but an evil snape-impersonating imposter!

I was so happy with the "not all unpleasent things are evil" issue that snape tackled ;_;

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm pretty sure Snape killed Dumbledore 'cause Dumbledore asked him to; read this post (http://www.livejournal.com/users/fabularasa/27100.html) which I linked to above, it kinda... says it better than I can :>

[asynca.livejournal.com]

I love you. Let's have babies.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I'm only the linker, not the thinker :))

[asynca.livejournal.com]

I know you're not supposed to shoot the messenger, but I'm fairly sure shagging the messenger is acceptable. Cliche, even.

[ficangel.livejournal.com]

Yes and yes and yes, both on Harry and on Snape. For all that this is the book that would, upon a surface reading, encourage an adversarial relationship between Snape and Ddore, this was the book that convinced me that there was a father/son thing going on there to rival Harry and Ddore. You don't get into spirited arguments about killing someone you despise, and you don't react with pain after being called a coward for going through with it. It makes the whole thing that much more of a tragedy.

More on Harry: ITA with pretty much everything that you've said here. He's still Harry at the end, but he's more mature, has that all-important empathy that must be there before you can develope the kind of love that seems to be the only route to salvation in these books. It's in its infant stages now, though, and I'm hoping that it will reach its fruition with some kind of olive branch between Harry and Snape and/or Draco before the end of the last book.