[stupid competitive streak...]

[reenka]

Okay, I admit I really like it when (usually young & male) characters act like idiots or bastards... or maybe even idiotic bastards; it's cute. It's endearing. It's in character, etc. Bottom line, I like stupid teenage boys who act before they think. Men who think too much yet make mistakes all over the place just don't have that special flare, for me, because they have no excuse and it's annoying as hell to watch them, basically. But....

It struck me that there's a difference between 'dumb' and an 'idiotic bastard'; it seems like a subtle difference, but it's crucial for me to like the character. Say, Harry. A lot of people seem to think Harry's dumb. While that's true in some ways, it's really kind of annoying in others; especially since it often leads to him being dumb in comparison to Draco, which... don't even get me started.

Harry is pretty clueless a lot of times about things like girls, motivations in shades of grey, and the thinking processes of other people, especially people he doesn't like or hasn't observed close-up (since I think he's pretty clever when it comes to negotiating the Dursleys, though he doesn't bother to kiss up or anything).

I can accept this, and I actually find it cute about him (frustrating as I'm sure more snobbish discriminating people find it). But he's an idiot in a way that a lot of self-centered, rebellious teenage boys are idiots-- inexperienced, rash, given to temper tantrums and overreactions, wanting life to be on his terms and constantly bashing his head against the wall of reality not working like it should. It's okay because the other teenage boys he knows (or at least Ron and Draco) are pretty much idiots too. Neville seems to be missing the testosterone needed to be a first-class idiot, so far.

What bothers me is when 'teenage idiot' becomes 'just plain dumb'; meaning, it's not that he misinterprets things and judges too harshly and doesn't bother to analyze to save his life, but that he doesn't have his own sort of intelligence-- his own sort of wit and resourcefulness. I draw the line when he's incapable of learning in the natural course of things, and his denseness is somehow not normal; especially when it's implied another peer (even Hermione, in the long run) is smarter. Ahhh, that gets my hackles up.

    I'm just saying that most people are intelligent in different ways.


So while Harry might have no clue about what's going on in Cho's or Dumbledore's or Draco's head, he's got what I'd tentatively call street-smarts. Coping behaviors and thinking patterns learned during a high stress childhood, when you had to figure out who to trust or not & what to expect. He's good at thinking on his feet, having mocking come-backs and defending himself and dealing with painful things alone, but not so good at knowing when not to defend himself, when he's overreacting, when to think and not charge in, when he's going too far and becoming the thing he hates.

Ron's got a lot of the same flaws (hot-headedness, extreme mischief, disregard for common sense, emotional denseness), but he's a lot more protective than defensive, and he's more of a natural planner. He thinks about his future more, it seems, and doesn't have as violent of a brewing temper 'cause he doesn't repress it any. Ron's a stupid boy, sure, but he's not dumb; he prioritizes the sorts of things he wants to think about (Quidditch, chess) and the rest of the time he sort of goes by instinct. This doesn't make him less intelligent than say, Hermione, just less analytical. Hermione has her own gaping blind spots, in that she's rather obsessive about whatever project she decides to champion, for example.

Another sign of different kinds of intelligence is that Ron and Harry are actually quite funny-- or at least, they get the good lines (I'm thinking of Harry's sarcasm towards the Dursleys ever since book 1)-- and Hermione and Draco aren't, so much. Draco is all about the low blow, mocking high and low till something hits home-- he's pretty much your typical 14 year-old online flamer, wizard version. He doesn't win (well, not that it's really -winning-) by being more clever than Harry & Ron, he just wins by being socialized well enough to know what hurts. On some level, he probably understands them better than they understand him, but that doesn't really make him smarter in an overall sense, since a) he loses through not being clever enough to realize he'll lose; b) he loses by picking such embarrassing childish taunts that people could easily grow out of them.

I think it's perfectly fine for Draco to become smarter; it's just he'll never be smart the same way as Harry or Ron, say (since Draco's bollocks at predicting people's behavior or strategy, apparently). A lot of people do compensate with time, and their experience lends them a certain subtlety (sometimes). It's just that their strengths don't tend to change, and mostly neither do their overall mental comfort zones. Meaning, Harry's never going to be brilliant at analytically determining others' motivation, but someday intuition might compensate. And it's probably not even good for Draco to learn not to overestimate himself, but perhaps he might figure out how to use people's weaknesses without underestimating them.

If there's anything I've learned in life, it's that everyone's stupid, but in their own way. Or something.

Comments

[tinderblast.livejournal.com]

Harry consistently bests Draco in various ways, from nasty quips to Quidditch to the ongoing life-and-death-battle that always seems to happen at Hogwarts, so I have no idea why anyone would call harry stupid or say that Draco, of all people, is smarter than him. Harry can be naive, short-sighted, whatever, but who's not limited in various ways?

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

It makes me sad :< I think what it comes down to is that people will always take the less positive interpretation of a character's behavior if they don't like him as much, maybe :-?

Ahahah though calling him 'dumb as a box of hair' is actually funny, I admit ^^;; Most people just... characterize him as not that witty, easily manipulated by Draco, two steps away from running into lamp-posts... maybe I'm oversensitive, but :> I think seeing a post questioning whether he was witty enough to make a wisecrack with big words in it was the current culprit :>

[tinderblast.livejournal.com]

Someone said Harry wasn't witty enough to make a wisecrack with big words in it? wtf?

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Was inspired by this (http://www.livejournal.com/users/mirabellawotr/672996.html), though really I think that was a very particular case; it just reminded of this general trend where Harry's not the witty one or he just... is a caricature of the crazed yelling boy from OoTP. And isn't it funny how people forget the silent unemotional sneering boy from the end of the same book? *sigh*

[tinderblast.livejournal.com]

See, I love Capslock!Harry, I was like FINALLY we get to see the results of his hideous, oppressive upbringing.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Heee, I ♥ capslock!Harry tooooo <3 But I don't think that's the dominant fandom feeling. I was so happy to find this quote by helenish, hee--
I've made this discovery, you see, that (based mostly on OOtP-Harry) it's pretty easy to write Draco as a reasonable human being, because Harry is just batshit insane and always charging around and saying things like "I HATE YOU." and "You've been just WAITING FOR THIS and I won't LET YOU DO IT, and YOu'd BETTER watch your BACK!" whereupon, you know, Draco says "uh, okay." and presumably even Ron says, "hey, maybe you should lighten up a lit--" and Harry says "Look, don't TELL ME WHAT TO DO!" and Ron says "I was just saying, um--" and then Harry jumps over the table and tries to choke Draco for taking the next to last brownie.

:D :D :D

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Also, remember, we're not trapped in Draco's head throughout the book and Draco's blindspots aren't made into big plot points. The reason people think of Harry as dumb as a box of hair is you're reading and thinking, "Just learn Occlumency, damn it!" Draco's sort of in and out. If we were in his head we probably couldn't believe how dumb he was to not see his father was an idiot or figure out that Potter was always going to best him at everything. Or people might want to know how he couldn't have figured out Crabbe and Goyle weren't really Crabbe and Goyle in the common room, or something.

[balfrog.livejournal.com]

Friend keeps looking out for books with what he calls "smart" heroes - only if they make the right turns, all the correct judgements, never fail emotionally, then wouldn't they not be as interesting as characters?

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Ahh, didn't occur to me that the plot depends on Harry being stupid/not inquisitive enough in some ways, but I guess it does! Although to me it's equally obvious that they're all kind of stupid (I mean... cute and maybe plucky but not... not like any of them learn from their mistakes, really). Heheh it's always odd to me how being trapped in Harry's head is what makes me sympathize more, not the other way around :>

Actually, I guess you could make an argument that since he wasn't too shocked at Crabbe & Goyle speaking in complete sentences in CoS, they're not really that stupid...?? Although he did say, 'you can read?' which was so adorable, though it wasn't like he was accusatory as pleasantly surprised, a bit :))

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Isn't "you can read?" pure Felton?

Though personally, I always find it funny when people try to make Draco a big bully to C&G in that scene because he tells Goyle if he were any slower he'd be going backwards since a)that's pretty standard for guys I know speaking to their spacier friends and b)he's referring to the fact that Goyle=Harry. Goyle is asking things the real Goyle knows.

I don't think a character making mistakes necessarily makes people sympathize with him less, but this is probably a problem in OotP because it seems to obvious. Like, I know with me I was frustrated with all the other characters because it seemed like obviously Harry should be told what the dreams meant, etc., and that people just weren't telling him for plot purposes.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Hahah, man, it's asking too much of my shaky detail recollection to differentiate between movie!canon & book!canon unless it's really obvious like... long-hair!Lucius (or perhaps it's a pet peeve).

Actually I was thinking that Draco was being pretty soft on Crabbe & Goyle in that scene, especially since he should've been more 'wtf' or something about them being OOC...? He's too cute to be a bully in that scene, anyway. *nod* It makes me wonder if the real Goyle is actually not like... fanon!intelligent -or- the grunt-and-chew type. Man, you can tell I haven't spent enough time around semi-dumb twelve year-olds in my time ^^;; Not that I'm complaining :>

I guess frustration with things not dependent on Harry could make people take it out on Harry? :-? Though while I feel like OoTP!Harry irritated most of the fandom, before that he just bored them. Possibly I'm not the least biased about this ^^; Yeah, and I still think Dumbledore avoiding him altogether (notes, anyone??) 'cause then Voldy could break through is just feeble ><;;

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

Isn't "you can read?" pure Felton?

Ah, finally a subject I can comment on! ;) (I tend to stay away from getting involved in canon discussions here, cause bless ya Reena, but we're diametric opposites.) Yup, that was improvised.

*is watching you*

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

That's because you are le stupid, mon cherie.
But I love you anyway. Even more than Greedo.

Re: *is watching you*

[tinderblast.livejournal.com]

See, you're the mean Draco in our relationship, and if you don't watch out, I'm going to CAPSLOCK out on you soon, before turning quiet and vicious.

*flounces off sulkily*

Re: *is watching you*

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

But Capslock!Harry just makes me laugh. (Well, unless I was reading the whole book of him. Then I want to shoot myself in the head. After him.)

Why do we always fight over canon? *sighs* Oh, right. Because I'm always right and a total genius, and you are merely my witless foil. Basically, I'm Obi-Wan and you're my lizard.

Re: *is watching you*

[tinderblast.livejournal.com]

Better than being snotty, overprivileged Draco ...

Wait, I thought you hated Obi-Wan?

Re: *is watching you*

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

But Harry's snotty and overprivileged, too.

Nope, I just thought he was a little passive-aggressive. But then, so am I!

Re: *is watching you*

[malafede.livejournal.com]

I'm moving this to my lj, cos I don't want to spam. :)

[malafede.livejournal.com]

I don't think Harry's dumb, but I also don't think you can say Harry's smarter because he's a better jock. :P

[tinderblast.livejournal.com]

Quidditch is as much about strategy as skill, but I was using that as my only example - I'm just pointing out that Harry is hardly a dunce in all areas compared to Draco's shining genius, as some fanfic/fan theorising would have people believe.

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but Hermione's not good at Quidditch, and she's the Smartest Person Ever OMG!11
Besides, Draco being apparently better at Quidditch than say Cho (I'm assuming that he must have beaten at least one other seeker for the whole league thing to make sense) wouldn't make him any more intelligent.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

Yes, but Harry doesn't do any planning when he plays. He goes after the snitch, because he has a natural talent for that. That's also the way he defeats the villains. It's a mixture of sheer luck and good instincts, he's very adrenaline-driven. I'm not saying this to undermine, I like that kind of character in general. :) It's just... it's not smarts when he wins.

If you want to say Harry's smarter... maybe he's got the wit over Draco. But then again, Draco calls him Potty and Harry calls him a git, they call their respective mothers names, is Harry really so much wittier? No, it's just that Draco is more easily provoked when it comes to Harry. Like, Harry was very in control in that last scene on the stairs, but it's not surprising since Lucius was just sent in prison and Draco was kinda upset.

So what I was pointing out was the opposite, that Draco's not that far behind as the opposite school of thought claims. I don't care much about genius!fanon!Draco as I loathe and abhor him to the tips of my fanon!Draco-hating toes. Harry's more mature, that I concede. Then again, first year Gryffindors are probably less emotionally-incontinent than Draco.

I rambled, sorry. ^^;

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

No, it's just that Draco is more easily provoked when it comes to Harry.

I wouldn't even go that far. I'd say they're both hysterics when it comes to insults about their parents - Draco says 'Yo momma smells' and Harry goes psycho; Harry says 'Your dad's a slimeball' and there's a shitfit. Silly boys. (Not to mention Seamus, Ron and the Twins who also go loopy. Am I the only one who, despite my manifold failings, got over insults to their parents aged about ten?) *comes to your lj, also having spammed poor reena enough*

[malafede.livejournal.com]

I think in general, right now he has the emotional advantage, as per "you think you're so big" scene. it grants him more control, so he can play it cool while Draco... well, he's frustrated at his own helplessness? Though I am kinda sure this is going to change in HPB.

[desperate2feel.livejournal.com]

Yes, but Harry doesn't do any planning when he plays. He goes after the snitch, because he has a natural talent for that. That's also the way he defeats the villains. It's a mixture of sheer luck and good instincts

He doesn't prepare and he heads rashly into danger without a plan, but once in danger - he does short-term planning. In the Ministry of Magic, he gets everyone to knock over all the shelves and cause confusion so that they can run. Later he tries to lure all the death eaters to the other room, so that Neville can take the rest of his friends to safety.
I don't think we see much planning for him when he's pursuing the snitch, but the way plans things under stress requires a type of flexibility which demonstrates a lot of intelligence - not just instincts and luck imo.