~~ the perfect mix?
Mar. 10th, 2005 09:13 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaThe strange thing is, I'm all about escapism, and understand the allure of pretending things are much better than they are-- after all, where's the harm, right? So I'm constantly torn in two directions-- the need for honesty in all creative endeavors and the shared need for escape. I mean, escapism and avoidance of harsh truths is something I understand on an almost cellular level-- it's just that that's why I want to overcome it. And I want it-- I want Agape between Harry and Draco, because it seems impossible. But if you don't prove it-- don't show how difficult and ridiculously harsh the journey is-- then why bother? Why not use characters who are at least friends-- because that's not as obvious as it might seem either.
The problem is that it's deceptively easier to take pre-existing philia-type love, add some unconditional Agape love and finally sprinkle in some Eros subtext. That's initially what was meant by "slashy subtext", wasn't it? There are two guys who are 'too close' (dangerously close! they could combust!) on a show or in a movie, and suddenly, there are possibilities. It's like putting on a different sort of glasses, and suddenly everything becomes clear. It doesn't even matter if there's rational evidence pointing to the contrary (say, how could Remus have really loved Sirius 'that way' if he didn't trust him?) Love 'clicks' and Eros seems like a foregone conclusion with that much Philia floating around. If only life were this simple, we'd all be a lot happier, it seems.
This is probably at least partly because while you can sort of try to justify 'friendship'-type love because it's not supposed to be mysterious or contradictory (even though it is, too bad, so sad), and you can say it can or can't work a certain way, you can never predict or rule out desire. You can never say "well, he feels like -this- so he simply -can't- want him"-- though people try to say that they don't ever desire people they don't trust/like, in general, there are always plenty of people-- and evidence-- to contradict them. After all, this isn't about people thinking with their heads, right?
Actually, this can be seen as arguing against the supposed 'slashiness' of a lot of male friendships, isn't it? Well, this is also arguing against the popular sexualizing of friendship in general, as well. It can become that way, certainly, but it's not a predictable sort of linkage. In the end, I'm only trying to keep overt reason out of it-- the sort of justification that goes on which tries to normalize every relationship up to some 'healthy' heterosexual standard. It makes me feel... trapped in an ideal I don't myself possess, I think.
I think what I'm starting to dislike is people always trying to lump all the three Greek types of love together in some sort of mad drive for completeness and symmetry in all things. And this bothers me even though I ship a friendship-type pairing (thus sexualizing it) and a heated rivals-type pairing (thus Agape-fying it, so to speak). I just can't stand it when I keep reading fanfic where it seems to be a foregone conclusion that of course we all want Harry and Draco to be nice to each other. Well... I guess it's true. Most of the shippers do, don't they?
What I mean is, I see fanfic after fanfic where the goal is always the same: get the two guys to talk things out, take things to the "next level", become sensitive, gentle and have meaningful sex. It doesn't matter if they started off friends, acquaintances or enemies or what kind of relationship they were previously comfortable with-- the point is to achieve the standard, "perfect" mix-- the only workable combination of Agape, Philia and Eros which spells out "long-term relationship with an eye to marriage". So if it's dysfunctional or not trusting or gentle enough, well, what kind of marriage would that be?? Clearly it can't happen at all.
Sometimes I get really bitter because I am fully conscious a lot of my writing lately has been purposefully going against most readers' emotional kinks. I mean, I read some of the stuff that gets the most extreme emotional reactions, and I realize that especially with Harry/Draco, I can't do that-- I don't want to write something reassuring or sweet or-- oh god!-- touching. It used to be that I could write smarm, kind of, but now I can't anymore, and the amount of people who'd truly love a story that makes them uncomfortable and tries to get them to question their assumptions is... well, it's pretty small, right.
On the other hand, I don't think I'd be satisfied by comments that told me my fic had told them exactly what they always wanted to hear. Why would I want that? I mean, I write porn in a physical sense, and that's fine with me-- but porn in an emotional sense seems like a lie, an illusion (false fantasy? aren't all fantasies false?) I'd be perpetuating. And I guess I'm taking these fictional characters too seriously, but if I portray them as happy and joyful and understanding of each other 100%, well then I'm flat-out lying about them in the most basic way.
And on some level I don't want anyone to believe that of them, because it's taken me so much time to accept that love isn't always perfect, isn't always comforting; that eros and some philia alone can be a good thing. Agape isn't always going to be there; pain isn't ever really avoidable. Sometimes you don't feel very understanding or self-sacrificing even though you still love that person. So it makes perfect sense to me that Remus could think of Sirius as someone who murdered his best friend and still love him. You can believe the worst things of someone you love, yes-- you can hurt them, you can abandon them, you can even think you hate them-- and then you can go back and give up everything for them once again. It happens. Not everyone's going to be your perfect mother (not even your mother!), and that's all right, isn't it? It's all right if it hurts; it's all right if it's not the way you wanted it; it's all right if it's really dysfunctional, if it's difficult, if it's wrong even as it's right. Because isn't that how it always is?
I could say "if I read about one more perfect partnership I'll snap", but the truth is, I've already snapped, ahahaah.
~~
This story by Are, Anodyne, doesn't really make (traditional?) sense, but that's why I like it, I think. It's not supposed to really make sense, is it? Although actually I like her Sirius/Remus fluff more, because I am just that easy.
Also, I think Maldoror's Monsters, while being an AU Gundam Wing fic, is so hilarious that almost anyone would enjoy it. It involves put-upon!Quatre (who is actually the first Quatre I've ever liked-- ever!), vampire!Heero, horrified!Duo, damn soulmates, werewolf!Trowa and the funniest author in that whole fandom.
The problem is that it's deceptively easier to take pre-existing philia-type love, add some unconditional Agape love and finally sprinkle in some Eros subtext. That's initially what was meant by "slashy subtext", wasn't it? There are two guys who are 'too close' (dangerously close! they could combust!) on a show or in a movie, and suddenly, there are possibilities. It's like putting on a different sort of glasses, and suddenly everything becomes clear. It doesn't even matter if there's rational evidence pointing to the contrary (say, how could Remus have really loved Sirius 'that way' if he didn't trust him?) Love 'clicks' and Eros seems like a foregone conclusion with that much Philia floating around. If only life were this simple, we'd all be a lot happier, it seems.
This is probably at least partly because while you can sort of try to justify 'friendship'-type love because it's not supposed to be mysterious or contradictory (even though it is, too bad, so sad), and you can say it can or can't work a certain way, you can never predict or rule out desire. You can never say "well, he feels like -this- so he simply -can't- want him"-- though people try to say that they don't ever desire people they don't trust/like, in general, there are always plenty of people-- and evidence-- to contradict them. After all, this isn't about people thinking with their heads, right?
Actually, this can be seen as arguing against the supposed 'slashiness' of a lot of male friendships, isn't it? Well, this is also arguing against the popular sexualizing of friendship in general, as well. It can become that way, certainly, but it's not a predictable sort of linkage. In the end, I'm only trying to keep overt reason out of it-- the sort of justification that goes on which tries to normalize every relationship up to some 'healthy' heterosexual standard. It makes me feel... trapped in an ideal I don't myself possess, I think.
I think what I'm starting to dislike is people always trying to lump all the three Greek types of love together in some sort of mad drive for completeness and symmetry in all things. And this bothers me even though I ship a friendship-type pairing (thus sexualizing it) and a heated rivals-type pairing (thus Agape-fying it, so to speak). I just can't stand it when I keep reading fanfic where it seems to be a foregone conclusion that of course we all want Harry and Draco to be nice to each other. Well... I guess it's true. Most of the shippers do, don't they?
What I mean is, I see fanfic after fanfic where the goal is always the same: get the two guys to talk things out, take things to the "next level", become sensitive, gentle and have meaningful sex. It doesn't matter if they started off friends, acquaintances or enemies or what kind of relationship they were previously comfortable with-- the point is to achieve the standard, "perfect" mix-- the only workable combination of Agape, Philia and Eros which spells out "long-term relationship with an eye to marriage". So if it's dysfunctional or not trusting or gentle enough, well, what kind of marriage would that be?? Clearly it can't happen at all.
Sometimes I get really bitter because I am fully conscious a lot of my writing lately has been purposefully going against most readers' emotional kinks. I mean, I read some of the stuff that gets the most extreme emotional reactions, and I realize that especially with Harry/Draco, I can't do that-- I don't want to write something reassuring or sweet or-- oh god!-- touching. It used to be that I could write smarm, kind of, but now I can't anymore, and the amount of people who'd truly love a story that makes them uncomfortable and tries to get them to question their assumptions is... well, it's pretty small, right.
On the other hand, I don't think I'd be satisfied by comments that told me my fic had told them exactly what they always wanted to hear. Why would I want that? I mean, I write porn in a physical sense, and that's fine with me-- but porn in an emotional sense seems like a lie, an illusion (false fantasy? aren't all fantasies false?) I'd be perpetuating. And I guess I'm taking these fictional characters too seriously, but if I portray them as happy and joyful and understanding of each other 100%, well then I'm flat-out lying about them in the most basic way.
And on some level I don't want anyone to believe that of them, because it's taken me so much time to accept that love isn't always perfect, isn't always comforting; that eros and some philia alone can be a good thing. Agape isn't always going to be there; pain isn't ever really avoidable. Sometimes you don't feel very understanding or self-sacrificing even though you still love that person. So it makes perfect sense to me that Remus could think of Sirius as someone who murdered his best friend and still love him. You can believe the worst things of someone you love, yes-- you can hurt them, you can abandon them, you can even think you hate them-- and then you can go back and give up everything for them once again. It happens. Not everyone's going to be your perfect mother (not even your mother!), and that's all right, isn't it? It's all right if it hurts; it's all right if it's not the way you wanted it; it's all right if it's really dysfunctional, if it's difficult, if it's wrong even as it's right. Because isn't that how it always is?
I could say "if I read about one more perfect partnership I'll snap", but the truth is, I've already snapped, ahahaah.
~~
This story by Are, Anodyne, doesn't really make (traditional?) sense, but that's why I like it, I think. It's not supposed to really make sense, is it? Although actually I like her Sirius/Remus fluff more, because I am just that easy.
Also, I think Maldoror's Monsters, while being an AU Gundam Wing fic, is so hilarious that almost anyone would enjoy it. It involves put-upon!Quatre (who is actually the first Quatre I've ever liked-- ever!), vampire!Heero, horrified!Duo, damn soulmates, werewolf!Trowa and the funniest author in that whole fandom.
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no subject
Date: 2005-03-10 07:47 pm (UTC)As for the emotional porn thing... well, they are separate if the fic has sex but it doesn't reassure you or make you feel good. I've been writing a lot of that lately, haven't I? When was the last time I've written a happy ending or kind-and-understanding!H/D-- probably my last fic was the closest I've come in years. I know all about the Happy Place, but sometimes I just get sick of it always being the case. Especially since it just makes it more obvious what a load of bullshit it is in Harry&Draco's case. Anyway, in my book, 97% of all H/D fics have them be Too Perfect, as in, not fucked-up enough.
Hahah, as for that fic by Are... I wouldn't recommend thinking too hard on it :> It's sort of... disjointed and surreal and yet works on some level for me for no rational reason. It's that lack of rationality I like :> I don't think you're supposed to seriously question whether Harry's insane or not :>
I'll definitely get to Chintsubu today. Aahhh running around >.<;;
AHAHAAH BULLDOG-FETISH :D :D :D This relates to another manga by her about a guy who's... er... a little 'too close' with his dog. Though not quite that way. But close.
no subject
Date: 2005-03-10 08:26 pm (UTC)Hmm, I dunno. Something doesn't have to make you feel good to be pornographic. For example, I consider overemotional (poorly written or otherwise) fics that make me sad in an emotive way (not an 'OMG THIS FIC IS SO BAD I AM CRYING' kinda way) to be emotional porn, because really, that's the main entertainment purpose of them for me.
97% of all H/D fics have them be Too Perfect, as in, not fucked-up enough.
True, very true.
I'll definitely get to Chintsubu today. Aahhh running around >.<;;
*shakes you by the collar* Hurry up girly! I want someone I can discuss Teh Crack with!
This relates to another manga by her about a guy who's... er... a little 'too close' with his dog.
You mean in that kind of Kazusa-Takashima-"My dog turns into a hot sexxing guy when he gets excited"-kinda way?
no subject
Date: 2005-03-10 08:53 pm (UTC)Heh, well... in Buru to Arukeba, the guy has this mad uber-horny bulldog that he loves, and the bulldog keeps getting in 'trouble' with his neighbors, and he uh... gives sexual favors so they'd forgive the dog, and.... heh ^^;;
no subject
Date: 2005-03-10 09:58 pm (UTC)Word. And I really resent it when they rec it to me. *see most recent post*
....-.-
Date: 2005-03-10 10:09 pm (UTC)OMG YES!! THAT'S EXACTLY IT!! 'Cause I can totally get over finding a badfic on my own much easier than when it gets pimped to me and I'm like even -vaguely- maybe-hoping that OH PLEASE GOD LET IT NOT SUCK AS HARD AS IT USUALLY DOES THIS TIME, PLEASE and then IT SUCKS WORSE and then you're like
*breathes* :>
and yes this comment wasn't worth posting like 5 zillion times, but.... -.- I get anal sometimes. *laughs*
Re: ....-.-
Date: 2005-03-10 10:33 pm (UTC)Re: ....-.-
Date: 2005-03-10 10:40 pm (UTC)