~~ the perfect mix?

[reenka]

The strange thing is, I'm all about escapism, and understand the allure of pretending things are much better than they are-- after all, where's the harm, right? So I'm constantly torn in two directions-- the need for honesty in all creative endeavors and the shared need for escape. I mean, escapism and avoidance of harsh truths is something I understand on an almost cellular level-- it's just that that's why I want to overcome it. And I want it-- I want Agape between Harry and Draco, because it seems impossible. But if you don't prove it-- don't show how difficult and ridiculously harsh the journey is-- then why bother? Why not use characters who are at least friends-- because that's not as obvious as it might seem either.

The problem is that it's deceptively easier to take pre-existing philia-type love, add some unconditional Agape love and finally sprinkle in some Eros subtext. That's initially what was meant by "slashy subtext", wasn't it? There are two guys who are 'too close' (dangerously close! they could combust!) on a show or in a movie, and suddenly, there are possibilities. It's like putting on a different sort of glasses, and suddenly everything becomes clear. It doesn't even matter if there's rational evidence pointing to the contrary (say, how could Remus have really loved Sirius 'that way' if he didn't trust him?) Love 'clicks' and Eros seems like a foregone conclusion with that much Philia floating around. If only life were this simple, we'd all be a lot happier, it seems.

This is probably at least partly because while you can sort of try to justify 'friendship'-type love because it's not supposed to be mysterious or contradictory (even though it is, too bad, so sad), and you can say it can or can't work a certain way, you can never predict or rule out desire. You can never say "well, he feels like -this- so he simply -can't- want him"-- though people try to say that they don't ever desire people they don't trust/like, in general, there are always plenty of people-- and evidence-- to contradict them. After all, this isn't about people thinking with their heads, right?

Actually, this can be seen as arguing against the supposed 'slashiness' of a lot of male friendships, isn't it? Well, this is also arguing against the popular sexualizing of friendship in general, as well. It can become that way, certainly, but it's not a predictable sort of linkage. In the end, I'm only trying to keep overt reason out of it-- the sort of justification that goes on which tries to normalize every relationship up to some 'healthy' heterosexual standard. It makes me feel... trapped in an ideal I don't myself possess, I think.


I think what I'm starting to dislike is people always trying to lump all the three Greek types of love together in some sort of mad drive for completeness and symmetry in all things. And this bothers me even though I ship a friendship-type pairing (thus sexualizing it) and a heated rivals-type pairing (thus Agape-fying it, so to speak). I just can't stand it when I keep reading fanfic where it seems to be a foregone conclusion that of course we all want Harry and Draco to be nice to each other. Well... I guess it's true. Most of the shippers do, don't they?

What I mean is, I see fanfic after fanfic where the goal is always the same: get the two guys to talk things out, take things to the "next level", become sensitive, gentle and have meaningful sex. It doesn't matter if they started off friends, acquaintances or enemies or what kind of relationship they were previously comfortable with-- the point is to achieve the standard, "perfect" mix-- the only workable combination of Agape, Philia and Eros which spells out "long-term relationship with an eye to marriage". So if it's dysfunctional or not trusting or gentle enough, well, what kind of marriage would that be?? Clearly it can't happen at all.

Sometimes I get really bitter because I am fully conscious a lot of my writing lately has been purposefully going against most readers' emotional kinks. I mean, I read some of the stuff that gets the most extreme emotional reactions, and I realize that especially with Harry/Draco, I can't do that-- I don't want to write something reassuring or sweet or-- oh god!-- touching. It used to be that I could write smarm, kind of, but now I can't anymore, and the amount of people who'd truly love a story that makes them uncomfortable and tries to get them to question their assumptions is... well, it's pretty small, right.

On the other hand, I don't think I'd be satisfied by comments that told me my fic had told them exactly what they always wanted to hear. Why would I want that? I mean, I write porn in a physical sense, and that's fine with me-- but porn in an emotional sense seems like a lie, an illusion (false fantasy? aren't all fantasies false?) I'd be perpetuating. And I guess I'm taking these fictional characters too seriously, but if I portray them as happy and joyful and understanding of each other 100%, well then I'm flat-out lying about them in the most basic way.

And on some level I don't want anyone to believe that of them, because it's taken me so much time to accept that love isn't always perfect, isn't always comforting; that eros and some philia alone can be a good thing. Agape isn't always going to be there; pain isn't ever really avoidable. Sometimes you don't feel very understanding or self-sacrificing even though you still love that person. So it makes perfect sense to me that Remus could think of Sirius as someone who murdered his best friend and still love him. You can believe the worst things of someone you love, yes-- you can hurt them, you can abandon them, you can even think you hate them-- and then you can go back and give up everything for them once again. It happens. Not everyone's going to be your perfect mother (not even your mother!), and that's all right, isn't it? It's all right if it hurts; it's all right if it's not the way you wanted it; it's all right if it's really dysfunctional, if it's difficult, if it's wrong even as it's right. Because isn't that how it always is?

I could say "if I read about one more perfect partnership I'll snap", but the truth is, I've already snapped, ahahaah.
~~

This story by Are, Anodyne, doesn't really make (traditional?) sense, but that's why I like it, I think. It's not supposed to really make sense, is it? Although actually I like her Sirius/Remus fluff more, because I am just that easy.
    Also, I think Maldoror's Monsters, while being an AU Gundam Wing fic, is so hilarious that almost anyone would enjoy it. It involves put-upon!Quatre (who is actually the first Quatre I've ever liked-- ever!), vampire!Heero, horrified!Duo, damn soulmates, werewolf!Trowa and the funniest author in that whole fandom.

Comments

[bookshop.livejournal.com]

This story by Are, Anodyne, doesn't really make sense, but that's why I like it, I think. It's not supposed to really make sense, is it?

Nope. I see it as disconnected and slightly disoriented--all on purpose. That's what makes it work so well, in my book. :D

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Hehe I was trying to link things that weren't really linkable again, wasn't I? But I didn't mean it wasn't on purpose or didn't work well. ^^ I just meant there wasn't a whole lot of justification goin' on :>

[bookshop.livejournal.com]

oh, no, i didn't see it as an accusation. i was agreeing with you. i think.

[marksykins.livejournal.com]

You always post thought-provoking stuff and then my brain drags it down to the lowest common denominator:

thus Agape-fying it, so to speak

I read that "Agape-frying," which then sent my mind spinning off into tangents that were both ridiculous and had nothing at all to do with what you're talking about. This is why I'll never be an essayist.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Heee! Agape-frying. I love that >:D It sort of hurts my head, though. Now I'm curious what you associate with that, 'cause the only thing I can think of is some kind of Japanese food o_0

I'll never be an essaying either, man-- I barely ever have any coherent point and repeat myself and forego rationality for saying, basically, AHHHH NOOOO NOT THE SAP, NOOOOOOOOoooooooo :>

[notrafficlights.livejournal.com]

I'm obviously not smart enough to get that fic. Yes, confusing, in the wrong kind of way. I'm not a fan of crazy!Harry fics (which is the only way I can figure it out... though any help would be appreciated). I think he's too stupid to be really crazy.

After all, this isn't about people thinking with their heads, right?

Too true.

Most of the shippers do, don't they?

No, that would be boring, and defeat the purpose of the fic, for me. They don't have to be nice per se, unless it's nice-with-intense-complications. Because H/D is all about the intensity. But yes, too often nice becomes comfortable, and that doesn't work for me with H/D.

Why would I want that?

What about if what they always wanted to hear was fucked-up and not-nice-at-all?

but porn in an emotional sense seems like a lie, an illusion (false fantasy? aren't all fantasies false?) I'd be perpetuating.

Personally, I've never seen any difference between emotional porn and physical porn. I like both, obviously. I like emotions and feelings bared as much as flesh. Yes, they're all lies. No one ever has sex like in any porn, but they're nice lies, that help us get through the tough bits in life when we need a Happy Place to go to (er, or at least, that's my excuse).

Personally I don't like any relationship that's perfect. It doesn't make sense, and it's really really boring to read about as a fantasy. I mean, even the supposed ship-fics I've read that could be considered somewhat "perfect" (like the Stealing Harry series, with the rather cosy Remus/Sirius goings on) aren't really, if they're well written (which Stealing Harry is, because they have their complications). I guess I could enjoy a perfect relationship if it had good porn involved in the fic, but it would have to be really good porn. Especially when we're talking H/D. Also, perfectness makes me think of ships like Mary Sues, which is bad. Very very bad.

PS- I loved the manga. The eel, the prairie dog, and the little bulldog-fetish the guy seemed to have.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Heeheh this is what happens when I get bitter from reading H/D fluffy-sex against my will (yes, AGAINST MY WILL). I was mostly talking about the majority of people who like fic where Harry is omg-so-understanding-and-kind and Draco is... well... I won't even get into it. But my fics? Get 10 comments tops, usually, and mostly less. Those fics? Get 2-3 pages worth of comments. So I do the math-- this is what The People must want, with exceptions of course (heheh). But the exception proves the rule, no?

As for the emotional porn thing... well, they are separate if the fic has sex but it doesn't reassure you or make you feel good. I've been writing a lot of that lately, haven't I? When was the last time I've written a happy ending or kind-and-understanding!H/D-- probably my last fic was the closest I've come in years. I know all about the Happy Place, but sometimes I just get sick of it always being the case. Especially since it just makes it more obvious what a load of bullshit it is in Harry&Draco's case. Anyway, in my book, 97% of all H/D fics have them be Too Perfect, as in, not fucked-up enough.

Hahah, as for that fic by Are... I wouldn't recommend thinking too hard on it :> It's sort of... disjointed and surreal and yet works on some level for me for no rational reason. It's that lack of rationality I like :> I don't think you're supposed to seriously question whether Harry's insane or not :>

I'll definitely get to Chintsubu today. Aahhh running around >.<;;
AHAHAAH BULLDOG-FETISH :D :D :D This relates to another manga by her about a guy who's... er... a little 'too close' with his dog. Though not quite that way. But close.

[notrafficlights.livejournal.com]

well, they are separate if the fic has sex but it doesn't reassure you or make you feel good.

Hmm, I dunno. Something doesn't have to make you feel good to be pornographic. For example, I consider overemotional (poorly written or otherwise) fics that make me sad in an emotive way (not an 'OMG THIS FIC IS SO BAD I AM CRYING' kinda way) to be emotional porn, because really, that's the main entertainment purpose of them for me.

97% of all H/D fics have them be Too Perfect, as in, not fucked-up enough.

True, very true.

I'll definitely get to Chintsubu today. Aahhh running around >.<;;

*shakes you by the collar* Hurry up girly! I want someone I can discuss Teh Crack with!

This relates to another manga by her about a guy who's... er... a little 'too close' with his dog.

You mean in that kind of Kazusa-Takashima-"My dog turns into a hot sexxing guy when he gets excited"-kinda way?

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Ah yes, you're right-- doesn't have to make you feel good, per se... eh, it gets iffy, 'cause isn't a fic that satisfies you by giving you what you want often a good fic, too? Maybe it separate by virtue of not working hard enough for its payoff? 'Cause fairy-tales have the 'happy ending' thing too, but they're not precisely emotional porn, are they?? Ahhh, semantics -.- I think I'm just at the point where if I'm aware a fic is 'working' me and it's so transparent and I have to work at suspending my disbelief for little enough pay-off-- then it's just not worth it to me, but I suppose that doesn't automatically make all 'emotional porn'-type fic worthless or whatever. There's just this one author that's getting on my last nerve with the whole blatant escapism, omg-Harry-is-such-a-prince-to-poor-sensitive-Draco bit :> And on some level I resent that so many people omg-loooove that ^^;;;

Heh, well... in Buru to Arukeba, the guy has this mad uber-horny bulldog that he loves, and the bulldog keeps getting in 'trouble' with his neighbors, and he uh... gives sexual favors so they'd forgive the dog, and.... heh ^^;;

[notrafficlights.livejournal.com]

And on some level I resent that so many people omg-loooove that ^^;;;

Word. And I really resent it when they rec it to me. *see most recent post*

....-.-

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

And my derision that usually passes from reading a badfic gets redirected into anger at the person who I now think has no taste.

OMG YES!! THAT'S EXACTLY IT!! 'Cause I can totally get over finding a badfic on my own much easier than when it gets pimped to me and I'm like even -vaguely- maybe-hoping that OH PLEASE GOD LET IT NOT SUCK AS HARD AS IT USUALLY DOES THIS TIME, PLEASE and then IT SUCKS WORSE and then you're like

*breathes* :>
and yes this comment wasn't worth posting like 5 zillion times, but.... -.- I get anal sometimes. *laughs*

Re: ....-.-

[notrafficlights.livejournal.com]

Yeah, those pesky CAPSLOCKS OF HARRY-RAGE are, tricky, eh?

Re: ....-.-

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

...I have to work hard so they'd have the best effect! Otherwise, you know how it is... no one would take me seriously.... Which would be totally shocking to everyone, right? ^^;;

[stellabelle.livejournal.com]

But if you don't prove it-- don't show how difficult and ridiculously harsh the journey is-- then why bother?
Yeah, see, exactly. I think this is true of writing virtually any relationship, isn't it? Or maybe that's just me being picky. I dunno. But it's like, if it's all sunshine & roses, I want to know why (and usually SERIOUSLY, whyyyyy). And if it's not...well, I want to know why, too. One of my favorite English teachers used to tell us, "make me believe it" (when it came to writing about character relationships) & that's just about the crux of it, really.

I was going to give you a random drive-by comment earlier to remind you to watch The OC but then I realized I had missed it and WHY IS MY LIFE SO DIFFICULT? Heh :)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

You know, I was going to say I really get the feeling like I'm repeating myself a lot, but then I realized it's because I'm reading a certain kind of fic, and all by this one author I can't stand. That is, the last time I wrote about hard-to-buy romance stuff, it was because of the same person. So I think a lot of typing effort would've been saved if I just said, you know, THAT FIC SUCKS IN ABOUT 194 WAYS AND I COULD LIST THEM ALL, WHAT ARE YOU BOZOS DOING SQUEEING ABOUT IT??! ahahah But yeah-- I think instead of being so blatantly boorish, I over-generalize instead... and even though it's specifically bad in every instance, the reason why I hate it remains the same, so I just go on about the same thing ^^;;; Le sigh.

But yes, of course it is actually applicable to every relationship story... it has to be sold first. The thing is, a lot (most?) people who ship the pairing already, with fanfiction, have a lot higher tolerance level for what they'd 'buy', so to speak, which is what bothers me in the end. Why should anyone work harder when they get all this positive feedback by writing some random story where Harry is OMG SO KIND AND SENSITIVE AND CARING and Draco is redeemed by the sweet lurve-power of Harry's touch, etc. Even if the fic doesn't prove anything in any serious way, see, people don't actually care. They just want to feel good. Argh.

...it's okay, I uh... was still napping at 7:30 today, anyway -.-

[stellabelle.livejournal.com]

Now I'm all 'who does she mean?' YOU KNOW I AM! ;)

You're definitely right that the relationship has to be sold. Definitely. I think that's why I was (am?) so fed up with H/D cause it seems like the majority of it (lately) is the sort of stuff you're describing. Which, as you said, obviously there's an audience for that type of stuff, but it just...isn't us...or something. Like, someone pointed me to a recs list a while back, and I realized I had tried to read, like, 2/3 of the fics on that list & hadn't been able to finish because they just didn't gel with me, for some reason or another. (And it's like, yeah, recs are opinion, anyway, and probably I'm entirely too picky.)

...Napping or still asleep? ADMIT IT, WOMAN! Heehee :)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Well... since I don't really care, I guess, it's this one (http://www.livejournal.com/users/rurounihime/3619.html) >.<;;; You can share my pain if you like :> :> The sad part is that I actually finished it... it's hard for me to purposefully stop reading once I start, though I often just get too lazy to continue though I mean to ^^;; Ahahah and I don't even feel the need to disclaim myself-- 'cause obviously I'm right and they're right, right. Of course, right >:D


...*mumblemumble*stillasleep*mumblemumble*

[stellabelle.livejournal.com]

Er. Yeah. I see what you mean about proving the relationship. I guess with something like that I would ask, why make it H/D? Because...it isn't, to me. I shall say no more, unless of course you want to get on Y!M. Um.

...Heee! I knew it. When I come visit you (when!) I shall make it a point to get you on a regular sleep schedule, and also to cook you things (because I have this strange view of you not eating enough cause, like, you're hard at work on thought-provoking meta, and stuff.) *is mommy, or perhaps lame ass* :)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

AHAHAHAHA Hard at work, huh :)) :)) Well, I did run to the convenience store and got microwaveable stuff today (again). I really hate it when I just eat ramen all the time. *laughs* But yes, I probably am as bad as I sound, and most likely worse >.<;; At least you're not the Harry-type badfic mommy >:D But then, who is? ahahah <3

I can't believe I made a typo and said everyone was right including me. Ahahaha that kind of almost makes sense, even. ...That fic makes me want to start singing "IN SPITE OF ALL MY RAGE/ I AM JUST A RAT IN A CAGE" which is just SO LAME ahahahhhhlkjsa;fl;kk
*had to fix comment to get correct Smashing Pumpkins lyrics, omg*

[stellabelle.livejournal.com]

Don't ruin the image I have of you all scholarly and typing away and forsaking nourishment for your art! (Um, or not, but pretend.) I can't eat ramen anymore, man. I had a bad stint, like, my first year in college with eating Top Ramen nearly 24/7 & now I don't think I can ever go near it again, haha. No more microwaveable stuff! I shall cook you things! At some point! I shall! <3

Haha, man, you HAVE to get those lyrics right, you know. They remind me of when I was 13 & pseudo-angsty & loved them (I did, I did)! And it's funny cause I think no matter how much I pretended to be angsty I was still perky (DAMMIT!) which...um...defeated the purpose. But anyway.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Man, I think I'm the sort of hapless person who'd get taken care of by a number of people, if I didn't drive most of them away with my oh-so-aloof ice-queeny ways. Or something. *coughs* I don't know if I toil for my Arte, but I suppose you could say I toil for my porn...?

I used to just eat hot dogs in High School and now the sight of them kind of makes me shudder. I'm not at that point quite yet with ramen, so I have time to read more manga uninterrupted, still! Yesss!

...I don't think I'm ever as angsty as I try to be either. I think it's 'cause whenever I try to take myself too seriously, I start laughing~:))

[stellabelle.livejournal.com]

You don't seem ice-queeny. At all. Although perhaps shy...? I don't know. Ahaha, I toil for my porn, too! And especially when (lately) there has been nothing good (at least not that I've found, not that...um...I've been looking that much, or anything). It is at this point that I procure my Porny Pen of DOOOOOM and decide it is high time I wrote more crackfic porn. (Because I like frightening people...? Clearly that is all that can ever come of this, Reena!)

I can't eat hot dogs. I can't eat most meat, actually. And since hot dogs are, like, every single meat (and possibly, like, old shoe soles) all in one, that makes them completely off limits. Because, EW.

I think that people who take themselves super seriously should be MOCKED. Well, except not, because that would be rude. Ahem.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Heheh yeah, more like shy. I like saying I'm ice-queeny, though >:D That way, people stay away because they're afraid. Very, very afraid >:D It's not that they don't notice me and I run away if they do >.<;;

I vote for more crackfic porn!! It's your duty to mankind to keep the porny flame burning brighter and brighter until it consumes the world!!1 That and also, y'know, how could anyone say no to crackfic? There must be a law somewhere.

You know, there are good-tasting hot dogs in NYC... they're rare, but they're out there. Though I can't vouch for what's in them. It's quite possible those vendors kill rats and runaway alligators in the sewers, boil them for 3 days and then sell them on the black market. You know it could happen!

...They should totally be mocked. And then one could always run away! (<--*is meaner than thou, clearly*)

[stellabelle.livejournal.com]

Yes, clearly people Fear Your Wrath. ;)

Heeee, although now I feel The Pressure to...keep the porny flame burning...um...I just got this mental image of the Olympic torch. AHAHAHA you amuse me so! (It's okay, I'm working on crackfic now, and freakishly I couldn't be stopped even if I wanted to. Probably.)

You have just made me want a hot dog so bad, because how could I resist the boiled black market runaway alligators? AND RATS! Er. This is a really disgusting line of conversation. Which is probably why we're so drawn to it, haha.

I vote for mocking and running away. Or mocking and staying to SEE IF THEY CRY AHAHAHA. I made someone cry last week. Unintentionally, but I did. See...*is so meaner than thou, OMG* ;)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

When people say things like 'The Eternal Flame', don't you just -know- what they mean to add is 'Of Porn'?? Because that's clear as daylight, right there. There should really be a porn-writing Olympics. There should! Also be prizes, omg! I want one! Who would -not- want one?? And! It's an excuse to be mean >:D!

When(!) you come to NYC, I'll be sure to find you a fake alligator-skin bag, some alligator-skin shoes, and then-- then!-- we could both have a hot-dog to commemorate the blessed event. And possibly we could kiss some babies on the way. Yes.

Pfft! Making people cry unintentionally so doesn't count! It's a foul, we need a rematch! :D

[ironicman.livejournal.com]

The strange thing is, I'm all about escapism, and understand the allure of pretending things are much better than they are-- after all, where's the harm, right? So I'm constantly torn in two directions-- the need for honesty in all creative endeavors and the shared need for escape. I mean, escapism and avoidance of harsh truths is something I understand on an almost cellular level-- it's just that that's why I want to overcome it.

I really like this. You've captured a common dillema very well, one that I feel myself, but haven't conceptualized so much about. I have never been able to give myself over to escapism, though I have longed to. It always comes down to paying the bills, leading to a desperate hatred of my jobs and the world, leading to trying to start something to save my ass in no time flat. I'm getting over all of that now.

I think defining types of 'harsh truths' will help you clarify your thoughts about this. War overseas is one sort of harsh truth. A difficult personal insight is another, as is artistic/creative criticism. A lot of harsh truth affords relatively little opportunity to do anything about.

Are you a Simpsons fan? There's an episode where advertising figures get out of hand and terrorize Springfield. They 'go away when you don't look at them,' which I thought was a pretty powerful statement about advertising.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I think 'harsh truths' the way I meant it was just whatever a particular person sublimates or tries to avoid knowing... but that assumes on some level we are all aware of what 'reality' is like in the parts that don't appeal, and perhaps that's being too optimistic. Sometimes it seems like the type of fantasy a person prefers says something about what their real issues are by contrast-- like, depending what you want to believe is true, it will show you what you are afraid is true. And it's that fear I feel that people have to face within themselves. It's more about self-revelation than objective truth, to me. Or maybe what I mean is, everything comes down to personal insight.

Sometimes people project their own issues onto the world... and society as a whole has issues it's avoiding, and that definitely drives the lies behind most wars. But it's all a question of the macrocosm reflecting the microcosm and vice versa, I think.

I haven't watched the Simpsons in awhile. Though I suppose my point about the less pretty aspects of life is that they don't go away when you don't look at them... and I know because I've tried so much. In the end, it really is true that the flaws we hate the most in others or their work is the ones we see the most in ourselves, I guess.