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reenkaI think the thing that's holding me up with a lot of fanfic these days is that to me, even fantasy porn is supposed to make sense. And it doesn't make sense on the most basic of levels if the boys act like empty-minded, desperate, weak, hapless little girls who need a big strong hand to pull of them of any little puddle, who're so bloody "delicate", they always need gentle touches and soft words and a nice massage after sex.
All right, let me just state something for the record, which I hope is forgiven for harping on the obvious: Harry Potter is not delicate. He is not helpless. He is not clingy. He is not a fearful cringing sex-kitten in need of some tender lovin'. Please. He is a boy (...and a Gryffindor, at that). Of course he has feelings and insecurities and vulnerabilities and weak moments and such-- we all do. But there's a long, long, impossibly long road from that to, "please save me, Draco, I need your strong manly arms to hold me tight at night, because otherwise I might cry!!" Because that is... being like that is probably his worst nightmare after Voldemort coming to sit on his face.
And what really disturbs me is the social and psychological forces that create the need to have men act this way. On the one hand, I understand girls who write these stories are frustrated with the guys they know; on the other hand, do we really hate men being men that much?!
People call it 'feminization', but that's really an offensive term all by itself, isn't it. But then, what is it? What drives these fanfic writers to turn formerly quite rambunctious, mischievous, fearless boys into whimpering, clingy, helpless-maiden-stereotype sex-kittens? I go on about wanting 'feminist (fan)fiction', but this isn't even about that-- it's dehumanizing! How can readers (and writers!) not realize this?
Is it some revenge drive to emasculate and humiliate those who have some supposed power over us...? That seems a bit far-fetched, but I really can't see how one would -want- men to be like this; maybe I'm just not being a real card-carrying female here.
I mean, I've read romantic & fairy-tale type fantasy since I was little, and I always thought that it was 'bad' when I wanted to laugh and say 'omg, that would so never happen... ever!' So in fanfic, I feel predisposed to similarly dismiss characterizations and scenarios (in my head) regardless of whether their justification would be 'but it's a fantasy', whether for the reader or the writer. I've gotten to the point where I don't even care if it's my -own- kink and -my- fantasy, because I can't shut off my brain quite that much; so these days, even when I write porn myself I try to think of what's believable rather than what I want to happen. That's probably my problem.
Okay, so it's porn; but just because it's porn doesn't mean it has to be bad or rather, indiscriminate in regards to all believability in such basic things as gender (...and personality-type... and common sense probability...). In fantasy stories of any kind, I still feel that something has to hook me... something about it has to convince me to let go and believe. It could be that the writing is just that skillful all on its own, and perhaps the issue I have is that I'm not reading people whose writing is good enough-- or it could be that the situation makes sense to me on a rational level in any way, shape or form.
Basically, I'm saying all this to try and convince myself that fantasy-porn-type writing doesn't have to be the polar opposite of rationality and common sense. And yet when I read fanfic expecting a pleasant diversion, instead I find that it's almost offensive because while aiming purely for my pleasure, it's expecting me to disregard my mind entirely. And yes, it's deeply offensive when characters I like act like brain-damaged girl-children (because real girls, they're not only made of sugar and spice); I'm sorry, is that weird? And then... and then these things are recced and there's no con-crit anywhere in sight and then my reaction disintegrates into wailing and gnashing of teeth, pretty much.
I mean, so many people don't care, obviously, judging from the number of adoring comments-- meaning, I'm just being uptight, right. But I can't not care; perhaps because the characters matter to me, and it matters that I can truly recognize it as these characters when I read gratuitous fluffy smut too. But how can I, when I can't even recognize either of them as a guy? Sure, they have cocks, but how can I feel good about a story when it's like, "oh my god... these two people are mutant females with dicks... but no, because most girls I know aren't this mushy! Because if this was a girl I knew, I'd tell her to snap the hell out of it and get a grip!"
I just... I know I'm going overboard, but the more I think about this phenomenon, the more it makes me rather sick to my stomach and my rationality ebbs away. I should probably start over and try to ponder why in the world society or fandom needs these fantasies, why readers respond so well to them, why the need to mutilate perfectly healthy male psyches is really natural and good.... but I think I'll just stop thinking about this and read some manga instead. Sure, the boys are often over-emotional, ridiculously needy, weepy, clingy and soppy, and don't even get me started on the 'uke' phenomenon, but somehow it seems laughable and easily avoided (or ignored, 'cause hey look, pretty art! shiny!) instead of painful when this is done to characters I -know- aren't like that. Hahaha, this reminds me of all those fanfics with Duo-the-slutty-weepy-cutter-prostitute in Gundam Wing. Those were more funny than upsetting too, but then, I was a lot more frugal in my reading in GW last time around, too, so I avoided most writers I didn't trust completely. Alas.
All right, let me just state something for the record, which I hope is forgiven for harping on the obvious: Harry Potter is not delicate. He is not helpless. He is not clingy. He is not a fearful cringing sex-kitten in need of some tender lovin'. Please. He is a boy (...and a Gryffindor, at that). Of course he has feelings and insecurities and vulnerabilities and weak moments and such-- we all do. But there's a long, long, impossibly long road from that to, "please save me, Draco, I need your strong manly arms to hold me tight at night, because otherwise I might cry!!" Because that is... being like that is probably his worst nightmare after Voldemort coming to sit on his face.
And what really disturbs me is the social and psychological forces that create the need to have men act this way. On the one hand, I understand girls who write these stories are frustrated with the guys they know; on the other hand, do we really hate men being men that much?!
People call it 'feminization', but that's really an offensive term all by itself, isn't it. But then, what is it? What drives these fanfic writers to turn formerly quite rambunctious, mischievous, fearless boys into whimpering, clingy, helpless-maiden-stereotype sex-kittens? I go on about wanting 'feminist (fan)fiction', but this isn't even about that-- it's dehumanizing! How can readers (and writers!) not realize this?
Is it some revenge drive to emasculate and humiliate those who have some supposed power over us...? That seems a bit far-fetched, but I really can't see how one would -want- men to be like this; maybe I'm just not being a real card-carrying female here.
I mean, I've read romantic & fairy-tale type fantasy since I was little, and I always thought that it was 'bad' when I wanted to laugh and say 'omg, that would so never happen... ever!' So in fanfic, I feel predisposed to similarly dismiss characterizations and scenarios (in my head) regardless of whether their justification would be 'but it's a fantasy', whether for the reader or the writer. I've gotten to the point where I don't even care if it's my -own- kink and -my- fantasy, because I can't shut off my brain quite that much; so these days, even when I write porn myself I try to think of what's believable rather than what I want to happen. That's probably my problem.
Okay, so it's porn; but just because it's porn doesn't mean it has to be bad or rather, indiscriminate in regards to all believability in such basic things as gender (...and personality-type... and common sense probability...). In fantasy stories of any kind, I still feel that something has to hook me... something about it has to convince me to let go and believe. It could be that the writing is just that skillful all on its own, and perhaps the issue I have is that I'm not reading people whose writing is good enough-- or it could be that the situation makes sense to me on a rational level in any way, shape or form.
Basically, I'm saying all this to try and convince myself that fantasy-porn-type writing doesn't have to be the polar opposite of rationality and common sense. And yet when I read fanfic expecting a pleasant diversion, instead I find that it's almost offensive because while aiming purely for my pleasure, it's expecting me to disregard my mind entirely. And yes, it's deeply offensive when characters I like act like brain-damaged girl-children (because real girls, they're not only made of sugar and spice); I'm sorry, is that weird? And then... and then these things are recced and there's no con-crit anywhere in sight and then my reaction disintegrates into wailing and gnashing of teeth, pretty much.
I mean, so many people don't care, obviously, judging from the number of adoring comments-- meaning, I'm just being uptight, right. But I can't not care; perhaps because the characters matter to me, and it matters that I can truly recognize it as these characters when I read gratuitous fluffy smut too. But how can I, when I can't even recognize either of them as a guy? Sure, they have cocks, but how can I feel good about a story when it's like, "oh my god... these two people are mutant females with dicks... but no, because most girls I know aren't this mushy! Because if this was a girl I knew, I'd tell her to snap the hell out of it and get a grip!"
I just... I know I'm going overboard, but the more I think about this phenomenon, the more it makes me rather sick to my stomach and my rationality ebbs away. I should probably start over and try to ponder why in the world society or fandom needs these fantasies, why readers respond so well to them, why the need to mutilate perfectly healthy male psyches is really natural and good.... but I think I'll just stop thinking about this and read some manga instead. Sure, the boys are often over-emotional, ridiculously needy, weepy, clingy and soppy, and don't even get me started on the 'uke' phenomenon, but somehow it seems laughable and easily avoided (or ignored, 'cause hey look, pretty art! shiny!) instead of painful when this is done to characters I -know- aren't like that. Hahaha, this reminds me of all those fanfics with Duo-the-slutty-weepy-cutter-prostitute in Gundam Wing. Those were more funny than upsetting too, but then, I was a lot more frugal in my reading in GW last time around, too, so I avoided most writers I didn't trust completely. Alas.
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no subject
Date: 2005-02-28 08:41 pm (UTC)I think a lot of it is the fantasy that somebody falls apart and you get to fix them via this other character--or in my case I think I probably put myself more in the place of the victim who gets to fall apart and get taken care of. But either way, the person has to be a puddle of mush. Some fanfic authors, probably the better ones, write the violence or emotional trauma in a way that's more realistic, but then there's plenty of girls who write pain the way they express it: they cry and wimper, they pile on the violence and abuse because they think more is more. And when you've got the guy crying and wimpering he can be mothered, even if it's by another boy.
Now, the larger question of why women write men that sometimes act more like women in slash, that seems like it's probably something academics have probably been writing about for ages. But I wonder if it's even possible to write a purely "guy" slash fic--or maybe it's better to say do we really want that so badly? I mean, for instance, you recced a story recently that you said was beautiful and it didn't work for me for a couple of reasons, but more specifically for this topic there was a moment in it that cracked me up because it seemed like such a girl thing. So I wonder if the line gets crossed not when the male characters don't act the way a man would write them or the way a boy would act, but when the fantasy gets broken for any particular reader. Different readers are going to have different things that set them off and pull them out of the fantasy. Or something.
no subject
Date: 2005-03-01 04:03 pm (UTC)So yeah, um... I didn't even recognize the pain as pain because it was so ridiculous... but that doesn't mean it's not still that same genre. I didn't think of it as mothering, but now that makes perfect sense, because that's exactly what Draco was doing, and that's what was turning me off big time. (Because Draco and mothering is sort of like oil & water as far as I can tell). And I did realize it was projection, but it just frustrates me that this is what we want from boys-- to be utterly the same as ourselves. Perhaps this is just a question of bad writing always being projection in some way.
Personally, I go for hurt/comfort when I can believe -I- will fall apart under these circumstances too, so there's projection going on on my part as well, and I'm probably tougher than most people. But not as tough as Harry, and to me that's so obvious (that is, you need more to break Harry) that it hurts. I don't want Harry to break in the first place, and if he does break, I don't want Draco to fix him because I empathize with Harry enough to know that he'd hate that with the passion of a billion suns unless he'd fallen in love first, 'cause Harry is definitely the taking-care person and not the taken-care-of person. So there are a lot of issues mixing together with this, I guess.
I dunno if I said it was beautiful, but do you mean the fluffy!hatesex I said made me happy? Because that was purely fodder for me to say 'look, they say I hate you & it all works out' (I was just in a mood). I thought I made it clear I wasn't really saying it was good or realistic, ahahah. But you may be on to something with different things pulling one out of the boy fantasy; I think most, if not -all- fics written in fandom are unrealistic on some level. It's more to do with skill, as I was saying-- either it's writing skill or some basic element of believability, which is what would be different per reader, yes. However... some things are so ridiculous as a concept (i.e., sad, sad rentboy!Harry not being fucked gently enough and pure, noble John!Draco who treats Harry right and doesn't think about his own needs) that... I just don't even know where to start. The worst-written, fluffiest hatesex is more, I dunno, sane (well, IC) than this, no?