[warning: festering weepy bottom angst ahead]

[reenka]

I think the thing that's holding me up with a lot of fanfic these days is that to me, even fantasy porn is supposed to make sense. And it doesn't make sense on the most basic of levels if the boys act like empty-minded, desperate, weak, hapless little girls who need a big strong hand to pull of them of any little puddle, who're so bloody "delicate", they always need gentle touches and soft words and a nice massage after sex.

All right, let me just state something for the record, which I hope is forgiven for harping on the obvious: Harry Potter is not delicate. He is not helpless. He is not clingy. He is not a fearful cringing sex-kitten in need of some tender lovin'. Please. He is a boy (...and a Gryffindor, at that). Of course he has feelings and insecurities and vulnerabilities and weak moments and such-- we all do. But there's a long, long, impossibly long road from that to, "please save me, Draco, I need your strong manly arms to hold me tight at night, because otherwise I might cry!!" Because that is... being like that is probably his worst nightmare after Voldemort coming to sit on his face.

And what really disturbs me is the social and psychological forces that create the need to have men act this way. On the one hand, I understand girls who write these stories are frustrated with the guys they know; on the other hand, do we really hate men being men that much?!

People call it 'feminization', but that's really an offensive term all by itself, isn't it. But then, what is it? What drives these fanfic writers to turn formerly quite rambunctious, mischievous, fearless boys into whimpering, clingy, helpless-maiden-stereotype sex-kittens? I go on about wanting 'feminist (fan)fiction', but this isn't even about that-- it's dehumanizing! How can readers (and writers!) not realize this?

Is it some revenge drive to emasculate and humiliate those who have some supposed power over us...? That seems a bit far-fetched, but I really can't see how one would -want- men to be like this; maybe I'm just not being a real card-carrying female here.


I mean, I've read romantic & fairy-tale type fantasy since I was little, and I always thought that it was 'bad' when I wanted to laugh and say 'omg, that would so never happen... ever!' So in fanfic, I feel predisposed to similarly dismiss characterizations and scenarios (in my head) regardless of whether their justification would be 'but it's a fantasy', whether for the reader or the writer. I've gotten to the point where I don't even care if it's my -own- kink and -my- fantasy, because I can't shut off my brain quite that much; so these days, even when I write porn myself I try to think of what's believable rather than what I want to happen. That's probably my problem.

Okay, so it's porn; but just because it's porn doesn't mean it has to be bad or rather, indiscriminate in regards to all believability in such basic things as gender (...and personality-type... and common sense probability...). In fantasy stories of any kind, I still feel that something has to hook me... something about it has to convince me to let go and believe. It could be that the writing is just that skillful all on its own, and perhaps the issue I have is that I'm not reading people whose writing is good enough-- or it could be that the situation makes sense to me on a rational level in any way, shape or form.

Basically, I'm saying all this to try and convince myself that fantasy-porn-type writing doesn't have to be the polar opposite of rationality and common sense. And yet when I read fanfic expecting a pleasant diversion, instead I find that it's almost offensive because while aiming purely for my pleasure, it's expecting me to disregard my mind entirely. And yes, it's deeply offensive when characters I like act like brain-damaged girl-children (because real girls, they're not only made of sugar and spice); I'm sorry, is that weird? And then... and then these things are recced and there's no con-crit anywhere in sight and then my reaction disintegrates into wailing and gnashing of teeth, pretty much.

I mean, so many people don't care, obviously, judging from the number of adoring comments-- meaning, I'm just being uptight, right. But I can't not care; perhaps because the characters matter to me, and it matters that I can truly recognize it as these characters when I read gratuitous fluffy smut too. But how can I, when I can't even recognize either of them as a guy? Sure, they have cocks, but how can I feel good about a story when it's like, "oh my god... these two people are mutant females with dicks... but no, because most girls I know aren't this mushy! Because if this was a girl I knew, I'd tell her to snap the hell out of it and get a grip!"

I just... I know I'm going overboard, but the more I think about this phenomenon, the more it makes me rather sick to my stomach and my rationality ebbs away. I should probably start over and try to ponder why in the world society or fandom needs these fantasies, why readers respond so well to them, why the need to mutilate perfectly healthy male psyches is really natural and good.... but I think I'll just stop thinking about this and read some manga instead. Sure, the boys are often over-emotional, ridiculously needy, weepy, clingy and soppy, and don't even get me started on the 'uke' phenomenon, but somehow it seems laughable and easily avoided (or ignored, 'cause hey look, pretty art! shiny!) instead of painful when this is done to characters I -know- aren't like that. Hahaha, this reminds me of all those fanfics with Duo-the-slutty-weepy-cutter-prostitute in Gundam Wing. Those were more funny than upsetting too, but then, I was a lot more frugal in my reading in GW last time around, too, so I avoided most writers I didn't trust completely. Alas.

Comments

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

I think part of the reason for this is that many writers are both titillated and horrified by slash. By making either Harry or Draco (omg, isn't THAT a travesty) somehow weak, it absolves the character from actually wanting, no, craving an arse up the butt. Plain and simple. This abdication of sexuality absolves both the writer and the character from responsibility of their sexuality. I think this is also a lot of the impetous behind mpreg. I remember when the debate over gay marriage came up in the recent election, and I was shocked to discover that many people who wrote slash did think that gays should have the right to marry. That it was wrong. So you can manipulate them to suit your own fantasies but the reality of two people loving each other and wanting to make a commitment that is legitimate in the eyes of the law is wrong. Mind fuck, in my book.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Isn't the "weak" thing a common part of women's porn in general, though? For instance, when romance novels were younger as a genre it used to be mandatory that the heroine be a virgin and be raped, thus absolving her of actually wanting the sex she enjoy it. There's a lot of sexist issues involved there, obviously, but I think there's also just the common fantasy of wanting to be that undone, so that even if you don't want something you can't resist it. Bram Stoker makes great use of it in Dracula not just with the female characters but the male one. I don't think everything should be written that way, but I can see why somebody would prefer a story where the person isn't just taking responsibility for their sexuality and making a choice about who to sleep with. That's what we should all ideally strive for in our lives, maybe, but I don't think it's what people are always going to look for in porn.

When you get into homosexuality, though, I guess it adds something else to it, like you said. I remember reading that it used to be far more common in slash for writers to constantly make the characters remind us that they WEREN'T GAY they were just attracted to this one guy, which seems pretty homophobic to me.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I think in the end, this post was expressing my deep frustration with 'women's porn' in general and all its typical precepts. That's why I was mentioning wanting not even feminist, but at least humanly believable writing even in 'fantasy porn'. Because while yeah, I agree there are all these causes and origins for the types of writing I keep seeing, but at some point, I just don't want to know why as much as I want to change it, because it really needs to change.

And I would separate the fantasy of being undone from more hurt/comfort-like ideas of weakness, because I think it goes beyond gender in terms of being swept away by one's emotions being intrinsic to romance itself. And I think taking responsibility (to me) is more a question of what's believable for the character-- so while I love seeing both Harry and Draco in denial about what they want, it's different than seeing Harry be unable to act, period, because he's so overwhelmed and cowed by the big bad men. There's a fine but crucial difference, it seems, between being directly controlled and sexually 'played' (that is, anything in the range from seduced to raped) and being unable to stand up to other people's behavior and needing someone to make it okay so that it's not even -about- sex but feeling safe and cared for in general.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Oh definitely two different things. It's weird, because I just can't see Harry in the sort of "I'm so helpless and weep" scenario--I guess that's why some characters seem to get put into that more than others (Mulder, Frodo). Ironically, I'd say both Mulder and Frodo are characters known for "ditching" people and trying to handle things on their own. So for some reason people want to see them crumble.

Now, Harry is another type of "let me handle this myself" but to me he doesn't seem like the type you can even put in those kinds of fics--I guess I'd call them "sick" fics. The fics where the person is delirious and weak and "are you my mommy?" Harry just doesn't do that for me. I can see Draco doing it much more easily than Harry.

But then I have to admit there's probably somebody out there, like that crazy girl on that one group, who thinks that's exactly what Harry's like and she'd probably put him in therapy and he'd be crying in his hands within seconds.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Ha, I think the difference between us in this is that I'm much more flustered and thusly wanting to dismiss those people who are on crack disagree with me about Harry on this issue, ahahah. It hadn't occurred to me that these writers could be being perverse on purpose and putting Harry in this sort of ridiculous situation because he doesn't ever act anything like that in canon; so maybe it comes down to writing quality yet again and I have to say that in that case, the fic didn't come close to selling poor-little-lost-lamb!Harry, especially when coupled with sensitive-and-kind-mother-figure!Draco (.......WHY GOD WHYYYYYYYY<-- largely rhetorical, hehe).

Then again, it's actually IC for Draco to be like, 'are you my mommy?', especially if you gave him a little push; not that he doesn't have his dignity, but I think it's hilarious how often fic readers seize upon hardass-and-mean!Draco as being OMG SO IN CHARACTER. Uh. Yeah, he's such a bad boy. Tsk, Draco, you said something nasty about Ron's mum again, that means you're like, VICIOUS, clearly.

If I had to take a shot as to how Harry's different from Mulder or Frodo, I'd say he's not a stoic type (i.e., dedicated to any sort of mission he's working for), per se. He's not controlling himself or being tough for any particular reason, see-- my feeling is that his fearlessness is really recklessness coupled with dissociation much more so than for Frodo (or even Mulder), who's not really fearless or 'brave' so much as dedicated.

Perhaps it's that same old OoTP gap striking yet again :>

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Hmm, the absolving angle is really interesting. Especially since I was specifically thinking of a rentboy!Harry fic where he had sex with all these people for money because he 'had' to, but his sex with Draco was different-- not animalistic, not rough, full of feeling and gentleness and soft caring touches (which was making me go off on the 'omg girly!!' rant). But perhaps it's that sense of denied or repressed sexuality as well that was disturbing to me.

It's not just slash though, in that case-- girls are taught that sex is 'okay' if it's gentle and meaningful and part of a relationship and not okay if it's enjoyed for the raw messy semi-violence of the act itself (because that's what bad girls do); so yes, that concept of 'taking responsibility' seems to definitely factor into it. As I was saying to sistermagpie below, hurt/comfort is also definitely factor, but absolving oneself of responsibility is then part of the 'comfort'-- so the Big Strong Man (...otherwise known as Draco Malfoy, clearly) takes care of you and makes sure you don't have to think about what you really want and need, because he knows what you need without even having to be told. Bleargh.

Man, so many issues, so little time :>