Well... my favorite H/D writers (Aja, Ivy, Penelope, Aspen, Penguin, Amalin, Silvia, Trin, Rhoddlet, Lasair, Maya) haven't written a post-OoTP longfic, and what longfic there's been that was released afterwards-- like, I'm not sure about Transfigurations, but Tissue of Silver, maybe, and Invisible to See-- has been either post-Hogwarts or not really dealing with the anger issues and 'omg you put my father in prison, prepare to die' & so on. There's been a lot of avoidance and most people that ship H/D hating/being meh about OoTP and so on. I'm not one of those people, but it's been a common reaction. Most popular H/D writers stopped writing after fifth book, and no major new movement/trend emerged that I know of. So it's not a question, for me, of slagging them off, 'cause I just don't see them -there-, y'know?
I also thought it was obvious we were speaking about ourselves and what we want (thusly the repeated refrain of 'we want' starting sentences and the whole section about our philosophy and such). I was trying-- and I think Aja & shaggirl were as well-- to admit to my/our subjectivity, though it's quite possible we failed, and I apologize for that. I mean, I could never speak for 'the fandom' at large-- I was only speaking -to- the fandom at large.
I'm not sure about being writing the same as me-- but I honestly do find lots of things OOC and I make no secret about that, while not claiming my own fic is superior in the first place. I mean, I know what I want, but that doesn't mean I feel I can do it, or I'd have finished all the fics that I haven't, y'know?
I'm pretty sure none of us were thinking in terms of worthiness or seriousness-- there's been plenty of serious and enjoyable fics, and while we did say "definitive", it was a bit of hyperbole, really, along with 'ultimate Harry/Draco showdown". Meant to be taken as somewhat tongue-in-cheek propaganda :>
If I were to be serious, I still wouldn't be referring to worth but rather to being a direct extrapolation of canon events. Any fanfic can't -be- canon, obviously, but it can acknowledge as much of it as possible. And perhaps this is just a question of me and Aja & Shaggirl not having read the 'right' fics, but I've read a lot. I don't mean I hated them all, far from it-- I loved-- and still love-- a lot of fics, both post-OoTP and before it. But I'll admit to a continuing sense of dissatisfaction with the state of the H/D fandom-- not the same thing as the pairing itself, and not the canon, certainly. Maybe it's a sign that I am just an old fogie who has expectations which are impossible to meet, because after all, after the first flush of fic-love (ahhh, how I loved Irresistible Poison & Origins back in the day, so shamelessly) one can never go back, perhaps.
Well, in that case, consider this challenge and call for fics my last attempt to fall in love with a fandom before I inevitably fizzle out completely.
Well, most of those people are people who I'd now consider to be writing OOC fic, not just in light of OotP, but beforehand as well, because the more times I reread OotP, the more I see it as fluid continuation and not anything new in terms of canon. In terms of the post ootp fic, there's Oscillate Wildly in the extended stakes, of course, and doesn't shadow of his wings count? or whatever it is called? ack, I tend not to read WiPs anymore till they're finished, so I just have a list of stuff to read when done. And to discount the non-chaptered fic does seem like an insult, because it suggests that people can't do anything decent unless it's, y'know, 50,000 words or more.
I mean, the people who don't want to engage with OotP...were not the ones I was reading in the first place, cause I wondered WTF books they were reading based on their fic.
"This challenge was born out of the belief that the H/D ship is at a crossroads, and that fandom in general is uncertain where to go from here. Many intricate and intriguing post-Hogwarts fics are being written, but with the exception of short, inconclusive one-shots, no one is seriously tackling the issues the boys are facing now."
If you weren't meaning to sound condescending, you shouldn't have said that 'the ship is at a crossroads', that 'fandom in general is uncertain where to go from here', that apart from some one-shots - which are inconclusive, bad author, no biscuit - no-one is 'seriously' tackling the issues the boys are facing now. (bad authors, not being serious, not dealing with canon in the way we think it has to be dealt with and giving us our daily porn!)
If you know of/wamt to recommend authors who -are- engaging with OoTP and are fully IC, by all means let me know!! I want something to read :D I find the Draco of `Shadow of his Wings' to be rather fanon!Draco, all ice-princey and everything, which... turns me off majorly... plus it's post-Hogwarts which automatically means some things (the intense anger on Draco's part, Harry's extreme volatility, how much of a hopeless divide in experience/ability there is between them) could be whitewashed by creating that fanon!Draco and saying he's vaguely possible. Which he might be, but... I don't want to think so, I guess. `Oscillate Wildly' was a good fic and I really liked its Harry, but much of it was an AU since the H/D of it took place, quite literally, in an alternate reality where no animosity existed.
I will admit that the fics I'd loved were OOC and/or not necessarily close-to-canon too... but there wasn't precisely the -denial- of GoF so much as a certain creative license taken with its last scene, a lot of times ;) People were referring to specific bits of canon events much more (like, so many fics referred to 'the Handshake' & 'the Train Ride' & 'the Warning in the Forest') even if they were used to make questionable fic concoctions. I often say I believe no one has written completely plausible H/D fic before or after OoTP, and I stand by that still :> Not meaning that as an insult, since H/D is a HIGHLY implausible pairing, and the fact that I find so many fics at -all- plausible/enjoyable/believable is a sign that a) I'm totally obsessed & b) theory and practice aren't necessarily the same thing when it comes to shippers & their fanfic needs :>
As far as the crossroads thing... we were summarizing an attitude we've seen expressed by others as well as ourselves... a certain lack of steam & focus. One-shots are great and I've written loads, but there's only so much they can explore in depth, and I miss the proliferation of lengthy fics (unfinished as they may have been) back in the day. I don't want porn-- we've -got- porn-- what we haven't got much of, as far as we know, is detailed accounts of what happens after the episode of angst or porn or some combination.
And I do see OoTP as a continuation of the other books in many respects... it is only that many (most) people were not, in fact, expecting Harry to act quite so loud & assholish, since very few pre-OoTP fics wrote him that way, if anything. And most people like to imagine Draco as gorgeous debonair ice-prince of legend, and before his Harry's violent indifference in OoTP, it was easier to imagine, perhaps. But if there are oodles of IC fanfic I'm missing, then I certainly will take everything back and happily!
Ahh, I really like Marks' & Zahra's & Circe's ficlets, though Zahra's writing mostly some combination of Theo & Neville & Draco these days, I hear. None except Zarah are posting bits of a post-OoTP longfic WiP as of yet, right?
I do really like Circe's fics in particular, as far as the writing itself... and I actually read everyone you mentioned off and on, and enjoy :> I've just gotten frustrated with the snapshot format, I guess. I want something meatier and yet shippy, y'know. Ahh, I love Zahra's writing but it's just been retreads of basically saying 'Draco hates Harry; Draco wants Harry but won't admit it or perhaps hates him more for it; they never actually talk and most likely they don't fuck either... the end'. I just want... more, and that's because I really like what's there, not because it's not good enough, see?
Zarah's publishing a Hogwarts-era WiP and so are you, though, so we'll see. :D
Hmm. Ironically, I also have just finished a 17500 word one shot, that is post-OotP and h/d and tries to be canonical, and as I wrote it, I was thinking, "would reenka/aja/etc like this?"
Heheh I'm not such a harsh critic, honestly >:D Am easily pleased if there's snark and angry snogging... or any kind of snogging. ICness is a big bonus, naturally. I'm looking forward to it :D
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2005-01-08 09:54 pm (UTC)I also thought it was obvious we were speaking about ourselves and what we want (thusly the repeated refrain of 'we want' starting sentences and the whole section about our philosophy and such). I was trying-- and I think Aja & shaggirl were as well-- to admit to my/our subjectivity, though it's quite possible we failed, and I apologize for that. I mean, I could never speak for 'the fandom' at large-- I was only speaking -to- the fandom at large.
I'm not sure about being writing the same as me-- but I honestly do find lots of things OOC and I make no secret about that, while not claiming my own fic is superior in the first place. I mean, I know what I want, but that doesn't mean I feel I can do it, or I'd have finished all the fics that I haven't, y'know?
I'm pretty sure none of us were thinking in terms of worthiness or seriousness-- there's been plenty of serious and enjoyable fics, and while we did say "definitive", it was a bit of hyperbole, really, along with 'ultimate Harry/Draco showdown". Meant to be taken as somewhat tongue-in-cheek propaganda :>
If I were to be serious, I still wouldn't be referring to worth but rather to being a direct extrapolation of canon events. Any fanfic can't -be- canon, obviously, but it can acknowledge as much of it as possible. And perhaps this is just a question of me and Aja & Shaggirl not having read the 'right' fics, but I've read a lot. I don't mean I hated them all, far from it-- I loved-- and still love-- a lot of fics, both post-OoTP and before it. But I'll admit to a continuing sense of dissatisfaction with the state of the H/D fandom-- not the same thing as the pairing itself, and not the canon, certainly. Maybe it's a sign that I am just an old fogie who has expectations which are impossible to meet, because after all, after the first flush of fic-love (ahhh, how I loved Irresistible Poison & Origins back in the day, so shamelessly) one can never go back, perhaps.
Well, in that case, consider this challenge and call for fics my last attempt to fall in love with a fandom before I inevitably fizzle out completely.
no subject
Date: 2005-01-08 10:13 pm (UTC)I mean, the people who don't want to engage with OotP...were not the ones I was reading in the first place, cause I wondered WTF books they were reading based on their fic.
"This challenge was born out of the belief that the H/D ship is at a crossroads, and that fandom in general is uncertain where to go from here. Many intricate and intriguing post-Hogwarts fics are being written, but with the exception of short, inconclusive one-shots, no one is seriously tackling the issues the boys are facing now."
If you weren't meaning to sound condescending, you shouldn't have said that 'the ship is at a crossroads', that 'fandom in general is uncertain where to go from here', that apart from some one-shots - which are inconclusive, bad author, no biscuit - no-one is 'seriously' tackling the issues the boys are facing now. (bad authors, not being serious, not dealing with canon in the way we think it has to be dealt with and giving us our daily porn!)
no subject
Date: 2005-01-08 10:59 pm (UTC)I will admit that the fics I'd loved were OOC and/or not necessarily close-to-canon too... but there wasn't precisely the -denial- of GoF so much as a certain creative license taken with its last scene, a lot of times ;) People were referring to specific bits of canon events much more (like, so many fics referred to 'the Handshake' & 'the Train Ride' & 'the Warning in the Forest') even if they were used to make questionable fic concoctions. I often say I believe no one has written completely plausible H/D fic before or after OoTP, and I stand by that still :> Not meaning that as an insult, since H/D is a HIGHLY implausible pairing, and the fact that I find so many fics at -all- plausible/enjoyable/believable is a sign that a) I'm totally obsessed & b) theory and practice aren't necessarily the same thing when it comes to shippers & their fanfic needs :>
As far as the crossroads thing... we were summarizing an attitude we've seen expressed by others as well as ourselves... a certain lack of steam & focus. One-shots are great and I've written loads, but there's only so much they can explore in depth, and I miss the proliferation of lengthy fics (unfinished as they may have been) back in the day. I don't want porn-- we've -got- porn-- what we haven't got much of, as far as we know, is detailed accounts of what happens after the episode of angst or porn or some combination.
And I do see OoTP as a continuation of the other books in many respects... it is only that many (most) people were not, in fact, expecting Harry to act quite so loud & assholish, since very few pre-OoTP fics wrote him that way, if anything. And most people like to imagine Draco as gorgeous debonair ice-prince of legend, and before his Harry's violent indifference in OoTP, it was easier to imagine, perhaps. But if there are oodles of IC fanfic I'm missing, then I certainly will take everything back and happily!
no subject
Date: 2005-01-08 11:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-08 11:17 pm (UTC)I do really like Circe's fics in particular, as far as the writing itself... and I actually read everyone you mentioned off and on, and enjoy :> I've just gotten frustrated with the snapshot format, I guess. I want something meatier and yet shippy, y'know. Ahh, I love Zahra's writing but it's just been retreads of basically saying 'Draco hates Harry; Draco wants Harry but won't admit it or perhaps hates him more for it; they never actually talk and most likely they don't fuck either... the end'. I just want... more, and that's because I really like what's there, not because it's not good enough, see?
Zarah's publishing a Hogwarts-era WiP and so are you, though, so we'll see. :D
no subject
Date: 2005-01-08 11:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-08 11:36 pm (UTC)