~~ ahhh, the tedium of fantasizing
Nov. 17th, 2004 04:33 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaReading the review of `Mirror of Maybe' at ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
hp_fictalk where the major crit was 'too much detail' made me wonder about why that's such a huge pet peeve of mine (to the point where reading-- correction, trying and failing to read-- MoM gave me near physical pain). I mean, one of the most obvious flaws within my own writing is that I don't explain things (like details about the environment or what some character is thinking) enough-- because it just doesn't seem interesting or essential. I'll describe something if I've got an deeply vested interest in every tiny detail (like a sex scene-- there, you could never really have too much detail for me), but who has the capacity to be that deeply interested in every scrap of minutiae of their existence...? (Don't tell me-- those people scare me, mommy!)
It seems to me that even in original work, there should be a different balance between the various fic elements of fact (the base element of plot), exposition (ahhh, the tedium that plagues all fantasists everywhere-- diekilldieEVILDEMON!!1), dialogue (wheeeee! never too much and double-yeay if used subtly for exposition!) and atmosphere (sort of like 'setting', except cooler because it's more concise/poetical! yeay!)
In other words, in original fic you get away with having 30-40% exposition (if you are very lame or in other words, the majority of popular fantasy authors). In non-AU fanfic, 10% is more than enough-- any more feels like someone's force-feeding the reader gruel, no matter how high the 'sugar' content. (No more gruel please!! Reena hates gruel!! Stoooopppp iiiiit maaaaasterrr!) Er. Anyway, the reader just has more of a role to play in fanfic-- they shoulder more of the burden of exposition, yeay, so the fic writer can get to the Good Stuff (character development!) fast! That's the point, no?
It's just interesting, the different ways in which fantasy-building works-- I mean, as fans and readers, we want to know next to everything about the things that really interest us-- and I'm no different. I remember, especially in my early (original) fic writing when I was in High School, describing the world till I dropped, without much effort made for characterization, because really, who cares about these people (I know I didn't)? I was much more interested in the ever-so-cool details about how the magic worked & how the land was geographically structured & what the history was and where the flowers grew. I was pretty much in hog heaven in my own head, to the point where my English teacher (whom I gave my one novella to read) called my writing 'ecstatic'.
It just seems like fanfiction is markedly different in my mind, in that it's not my world to build-- and I was able to let go of any burden or ecstasy that brought. All I needed to play with were characters, and that was such a relief! I already had the world in my head, and even the characters, halfway, so to have it all explained to me again and again is the worst kind of torture! Like an original fic blooming where I want my pretty fanfic to be, and that's just not on! It's a weed! A weed, I say!
It's funny, 'cause I enjoy fantasy AU fics for Gundam Wing (which have plenty of world-building), mostly because I dislike that canon world (eeewwww, mechas!). In HP, I love the canon world-- as is, baby. So to have a fantasy AU in HP-- built into the Potterverse without fully removing the original-- feels like some sort of parasitic invasion. Which is similar to the feeling I get when a character's thoughts are over-explained-- as a reader, I have my own ideas about what they're thinking too, and to have all my space for imagination used up feels as if the fic is some sort of parasite on me, leeching my every flight of fancy for itself.
It's different when I'm doing this myself, in my writing-- I can see the appeal of describing everything that interests you, as I've said. But as a -reader-, it just relegates your role in the storytelling to 'object of lecture', which is so vile and loathsome as to be avoided at all costs (...now take a wild guess why Reena doesn't do well with organized schooling a lot of times).
In response to that post inhp_fictalk, ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
arclevel said that they enjoy having things explained to them because they don't necessarily make the 'obvious' connection-- and I'm aware there are plenty of readers with this issue. Um. So I suppose this is why different sorts of stories will always attract different sorts of readers~:) For instance, I still can't muster up the will to slog through the endless tedium of plot/description/plot in either Tolkien's LoTR or Herbert's Dune series, though I know full well they're good books & I really enjoyed the movies. I feel like I'd really love them if someone else rewrote them, haha.
...Even so (that is, even if the reader digs it), I think it's not actually good writing to have that over-abundance of detail. It stifles the reader's own imagination (and by 'stifles' I really meant 'strangles'). Reading should encourage your imagination, not beat it bloodily into the ground! And stomp! And yell mightily for it has won! (...All right, I should go eat.)
hp_fictalk where the major crit was 'too much detail' made me wonder about why that's such a huge pet peeve of mine (to the point where reading-- correction, trying and failing to read-- MoM gave me near physical pain). I mean, one of the most obvious flaws within my own writing is that I don't explain things (like details about the environment or what some character is thinking) enough-- because it just doesn't seem interesting or essential. I'll describe something if I've got an deeply vested interest in every tiny detail (like a sex scene-- there, you could never really have too much detail for me), but who has the capacity to be that deeply interested in every scrap of minutiae of their existence...? (Don't tell me-- those people scare me, mommy!)It seems to me that even in original work, there should be a different balance between the various fic elements of fact (the base element of plot), exposition (ahhh, the tedium that plagues all fantasists everywhere-- diekilldieEVILDEMON!!1), dialogue (wheeeee! never too much and double-yeay if used subtly for exposition!) and atmosphere (sort of like 'setting', except cooler because it's more concise/poetical! yeay!)
In other words, in original fic you get away with having 30-40% exposition (if you are very lame or in other words, the majority of popular fantasy authors). In non-AU fanfic, 10% is more than enough-- any more feels like someone's force-feeding the reader gruel, no matter how high the 'sugar' content. (No more gruel please!! Reena hates gruel!! Stoooopppp iiiiit maaaaasterrr!) Er. Anyway, the reader just has more of a role to play in fanfic-- they shoulder more of the burden of exposition, yeay, so the fic writer can get to the Good Stuff (character development!) fast! That's the point, no?
It's just interesting, the different ways in which fantasy-building works-- I mean, as fans and readers, we want to know next to everything about the things that really interest us-- and I'm no different. I remember, especially in my early (original) fic writing when I was in High School, describing the world till I dropped, without much effort made for characterization, because really, who cares about these people (I know I didn't)? I was much more interested in the ever-so-cool details about how the magic worked & how the land was geographically structured & what the history was and where the flowers grew. I was pretty much in hog heaven in my own head, to the point where my English teacher (whom I gave my one novella to read) called my writing 'ecstatic'.
It just seems like fanfiction is markedly different in my mind, in that it's not my world to build-- and I was able to let go of any burden or ecstasy that brought. All I needed to play with were characters, and that was such a relief! I already had the world in my head, and even the characters, halfway, so to have it all explained to me again and again is the worst kind of torture! Like an original fic blooming where I want my pretty fanfic to be, and that's just not on! It's a weed! A weed, I say!
It's funny, 'cause I enjoy fantasy AU fics for Gundam Wing (which have plenty of world-building), mostly because I dislike that canon world (eeewwww, mechas!). In HP, I love the canon world-- as is, baby. So to have a fantasy AU in HP-- built into the Potterverse without fully removing the original-- feels like some sort of parasitic invasion. Which is similar to the feeling I get when a character's thoughts are over-explained-- as a reader, I have my own ideas about what they're thinking too, and to have all my space for imagination used up feels as if the fic is some sort of parasite on me, leeching my every flight of fancy for itself.
It's different when I'm doing this myself, in my writing-- I can see the appeal of describing everything that interests you, as I've said. But as a -reader-, it just relegates your role in the storytelling to 'object of lecture', which is so vile and loathsome as to be avoided at all costs (...now take a wild guess why Reena doesn't do well with organized schooling a lot of times).
In response to that post in
hp_fictalk, arclevel said that they enjoy having things explained to them because they don't necessarily make the 'obvious' connection-- and I'm aware there are plenty of readers with this issue. Um. So I suppose this is why different sorts of stories will always attract different sorts of readers~:) For instance, I still can't muster up the will to slog through the endless tedium of plot/description/plot in either Tolkien's LoTR or Herbert's Dune series, though I know full well they're good books & I really enjoyed the movies. I feel like I'd really love them if someone else rewrote them, haha....Even so (that is, even if the reader digs it), I think it's not actually good writing to have that over-abundance of detail. It stifles the reader's own imagination (and by 'stifles' I really meant 'strangles'). Reading should encourage your imagination, not beat it bloodily into the ground! And stomp! And yell mightily for it has won! (...All right, I should go eat.)
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2004-11-17 03:41 pm (UTC)Sometimes (not very often), this happens and I really like the writer -because- of the intricacy-- I really enjoy Joan D. Vinge & Vernor Vinge in part because of the insanely high level of tension they manage to insert into tightly-plotted very detailed universes. It's like that -drive- needs to be there, though, something that pushes you forward in spite of yourself. I mean, with `Fire Upon the Deep'-- the one novel of Vernor Vinge's that I've read-- there was a sense of intrigue that sort of made you -wonder- about every new thing he told you about. It worked because it seemed important. But I mean, making 700+ pages of fic seem important isn't something most people can accomplish. In fact, making 7 pages of fic seem vitally important isn't something most people can accomplish :>
Heheh which novel of hers was it?
She's consistent but not utterly so~:) I was actually rather disappointed in her until her latest novel brought her back up to my favorite :>
no subject
Date: 2004-11-17 04:18 pm (UTC)Martin's writing style in the novella (Hedge Knight, yes?) is actually much much tighter than it is in his novels, which are... sprawling. ;) So yeah, a lot of people liked the novella who didn't like the novels, but by the same turn, many of the novel fans weren't so fond of the novella. I loved them both, but then I love his characters more than anything.
And it was uh, the Tower at Stony Forest or something? I remember there was a tower. And stone. ;)
no subject
Date: 2004-11-17 08:28 pm (UTC)...In fanfic I'm a bit more egalitarian 'cause... uh... there's more porn. If it wasn't for the porn, dude, I'm harsh :D
Yeah... um... I could tell that the longer epic stuff wasn't as tight, so I was semi-avoiding it :> I'm not sure whether I'd like it or not, 'cause as I said, sometimes the drive of the book (emotional, characterization, subject-matter, etc) overcomes my issues with the sprawl of the prose. I mean, I remember -really- digging his characters-- they were kinda... raw-edged and real, methinks. Like, not nice~:)
Hahah, Tower at Stony Wood. Not her best work, since it's Patricia at her most abstract and lyrical-yet-obtuse~:) I'm not sure what to point to-- definitely The Forgotten Beasts of Eld (eeheeeeeeeeeee god I LOVE IT SO MUCH) & the Riddlemaster of Hed trilogy, and I rather admire her lasted, Alphabet of Thorn-- plotty & pretty & tightly-written & character-driven. Yes.