~~ ahhh, the tedium of fantasizing
Nov. 17th, 2004 04:33 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaReading the review of `Mirror of Maybe' at ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
hp_fictalk where the major crit was 'too much detail' made me wonder about why that's such a huge pet peeve of mine (to the point where reading-- correction, trying and failing to read-- MoM gave me near physical pain). I mean, one of the most obvious flaws within my own writing is that I don't explain things (like details about the environment or what some character is thinking) enough-- because it just doesn't seem interesting or essential. I'll describe something if I've got an deeply vested interest in every tiny detail (like a sex scene-- there, you could never really have too much detail for me), but who has the capacity to be that deeply interested in every scrap of minutiae of their existence...? (Don't tell me-- those people scare me, mommy!)
It seems to me that even in original work, there should be a different balance between the various fic elements of fact (the base element of plot), exposition (ahhh, the tedium that plagues all fantasists everywhere-- diekilldieEVILDEMON!!1), dialogue (wheeeee! never too much and double-yeay if used subtly for exposition!) and atmosphere (sort of like 'setting', except cooler because it's more concise/poetical! yeay!)
In other words, in original fic you get away with having 30-40% exposition (if you are very lame or in other words, the majority of popular fantasy authors). In non-AU fanfic, 10% is more than enough-- any more feels like someone's force-feeding the reader gruel, no matter how high the 'sugar' content. (No more gruel please!! Reena hates gruel!! Stoooopppp iiiiit maaaaasterrr!) Er. Anyway, the reader just has more of a role to play in fanfic-- they shoulder more of the burden of exposition, yeay, so the fic writer can get to the Good Stuff (character development!) fast! That's the point, no?
It's just interesting, the different ways in which fantasy-building works-- I mean, as fans and readers, we want to know next to everything about the things that really interest us-- and I'm no different. I remember, especially in my early (original) fic writing when I was in High School, describing the world till I dropped, without much effort made for characterization, because really, who cares about these people (I know I didn't)? I was much more interested in the ever-so-cool details about how the magic worked & how the land was geographically structured & what the history was and where the flowers grew. I was pretty much in hog heaven in my own head, to the point where my English teacher (whom I gave my one novella to read) called my writing 'ecstatic'.
It just seems like fanfiction is markedly different in my mind, in that it's not my world to build-- and I was able to let go of any burden or ecstasy that brought. All I needed to play with were characters, and that was such a relief! I already had the world in my head, and even the characters, halfway, so to have it all explained to me again and again is the worst kind of torture! Like an original fic blooming where I want my pretty fanfic to be, and that's just not on! It's a weed! A weed, I say!
It's funny, 'cause I enjoy fantasy AU fics for Gundam Wing (which have plenty of world-building), mostly because I dislike that canon world (eeewwww, mechas!). In HP, I love the canon world-- as is, baby. So to have a fantasy AU in HP-- built into the Potterverse without fully removing the original-- feels like some sort of parasitic invasion. Which is similar to the feeling I get when a character's thoughts are over-explained-- as a reader, I have my own ideas about what they're thinking too, and to have all my space for imagination used up feels as if the fic is some sort of parasite on me, leeching my every flight of fancy for itself.
It's different when I'm doing this myself, in my writing-- I can see the appeal of describing everything that interests you, as I've said. But as a -reader-, it just relegates your role in the storytelling to 'object of lecture', which is so vile and loathsome as to be avoided at all costs (...now take a wild guess why Reena doesn't do well with organized schooling a lot of times).
In response to that post inhp_fictalk, ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
arclevel said that they enjoy having things explained to them because they don't necessarily make the 'obvious' connection-- and I'm aware there are plenty of readers with this issue. Um. So I suppose this is why different sorts of stories will always attract different sorts of readers~:) For instance, I still can't muster up the will to slog through the endless tedium of plot/description/plot in either Tolkien's LoTR or Herbert's Dune series, though I know full well they're good books & I really enjoyed the movies. I feel like I'd really love them if someone else rewrote them, haha.
...Even so (that is, even if the reader digs it), I think it's not actually good writing to have that over-abundance of detail. It stifles the reader's own imagination (and by 'stifles' I really meant 'strangles'). Reading should encourage your imagination, not beat it bloodily into the ground! And stomp! And yell mightily for it has won! (...All right, I should go eat.)
hp_fictalk where the major crit was 'too much detail' made me wonder about why that's such a huge pet peeve of mine (to the point where reading-- correction, trying and failing to read-- MoM gave me near physical pain). I mean, one of the most obvious flaws within my own writing is that I don't explain things (like details about the environment or what some character is thinking) enough-- because it just doesn't seem interesting or essential. I'll describe something if I've got an deeply vested interest in every tiny detail (like a sex scene-- there, you could never really have too much detail for me), but who has the capacity to be that deeply interested in every scrap of minutiae of their existence...? (Don't tell me-- those people scare me, mommy!)It seems to me that even in original work, there should be a different balance between the various fic elements of fact (the base element of plot), exposition (ahhh, the tedium that plagues all fantasists everywhere-- diekilldieEVILDEMON!!1), dialogue (wheeeee! never too much and double-yeay if used subtly for exposition!) and atmosphere (sort of like 'setting', except cooler because it's more concise/poetical! yeay!)
In other words, in original fic you get away with having 30-40% exposition (if you are very lame or in other words, the majority of popular fantasy authors). In non-AU fanfic, 10% is more than enough-- any more feels like someone's force-feeding the reader gruel, no matter how high the 'sugar' content. (No more gruel please!! Reena hates gruel!! Stoooopppp iiiiit maaaaasterrr!) Er. Anyway, the reader just has more of a role to play in fanfic-- they shoulder more of the burden of exposition, yeay, so the fic writer can get to the Good Stuff (character development!) fast! That's the point, no?
It's just interesting, the different ways in which fantasy-building works-- I mean, as fans and readers, we want to know next to everything about the things that really interest us-- and I'm no different. I remember, especially in my early (original) fic writing when I was in High School, describing the world till I dropped, without much effort made for characterization, because really, who cares about these people (I know I didn't)? I was much more interested in the ever-so-cool details about how the magic worked & how the land was geographically structured & what the history was and where the flowers grew. I was pretty much in hog heaven in my own head, to the point where my English teacher (whom I gave my one novella to read) called my writing 'ecstatic'.
It just seems like fanfiction is markedly different in my mind, in that it's not my world to build-- and I was able to let go of any burden or ecstasy that brought. All I needed to play with were characters, and that was such a relief! I already had the world in my head, and even the characters, halfway, so to have it all explained to me again and again is the worst kind of torture! Like an original fic blooming where I want my pretty fanfic to be, and that's just not on! It's a weed! A weed, I say!
It's funny, 'cause I enjoy fantasy AU fics for Gundam Wing (which have plenty of world-building), mostly because I dislike that canon world (eeewwww, mechas!). In HP, I love the canon world-- as is, baby. So to have a fantasy AU in HP-- built into the Potterverse without fully removing the original-- feels like some sort of parasitic invasion. Which is similar to the feeling I get when a character's thoughts are over-explained-- as a reader, I have my own ideas about what they're thinking too, and to have all my space for imagination used up feels as if the fic is some sort of parasite on me, leeching my every flight of fancy for itself.
It's different when I'm doing this myself, in my writing-- I can see the appeal of describing everything that interests you, as I've said. But as a -reader-, it just relegates your role in the storytelling to 'object of lecture', which is so vile and loathsome as to be avoided at all costs (...now take a wild guess why Reena doesn't do well with organized schooling a lot of times).
In response to that post in
hp_fictalk, arclevel said that they enjoy having things explained to them because they don't necessarily make the 'obvious' connection-- and I'm aware there are plenty of readers with this issue. Um. So I suppose this is why different sorts of stories will always attract different sorts of readers~:) For instance, I still can't muster up the will to slog through the endless tedium of plot/description/plot in either Tolkien's LoTR or Herbert's Dune series, though I know full well they're good books & I really enjoyed the movies. I feel like I'd really love them if someone else rewrote them, haha....Even so (that is, even if the reader digs it), I think it's not actually good writing to have that over-abundance of detail. It stifles the reader's own imagination (and by 'stifles' I really meant 'strangles'). Reading should encourage your imagination, not beat it bloodily into the ground! And stomp! And yell mightily for it has won! (...All right, I should go eat.)
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no subject
Date: 2004-11-17 01:51 pm (UTC)I agree completely. I haven't read the fic in question because 1. I don't read Snarry and 2. I don't read WsIP, but just from teh excerpt listed in that discussion I can see that I'd have spent most of my time skimming to get to the 'good parts' and I don't mean the sex, necessarily, but the dialogue and some interior monologue. I mean, enough interior monologue to make me feel like I understand, but not a play by play of every thought and feeling the narrator is feeling.
Of course, I'm often told by betas that my stories are too elliptical and too light on descriptive detail, but I say I'd rather that than the other way around. Especially in fanfic, where I expect the reader can fill in everything if I say, "The drawing room at 12 Grimmauld Place" rather than describing every ratty curtain and chipped parquet floorboard.
So that was a really long-winded way of saying I totally agree. Hee.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-17 02:10 pm (UTC)I heavily prefer the elliptical (hee! I like that word) stories, which I'm aware is a personal preference and not something to impose on writers of different abilities (like, I don't know if I myself write elliptically so much as atmospherically, which I think is different).
I really think it's an issue of different writers'/readers' styles of thought-- that is, some people just -think- in that way and can't help but transmit it in their writing. And it's that sense that I'm being forced to share an alien brain that bugs me as much as anything :>
no subject
Date: 2004-11-19 01:44 pm (UTC)when the dialogue sucks too-- like, you can tell the writer is not really 'hearing' it in their head and are just sort of writing down what they think the characters -should- be saying to advance the plot
Yes. And new-writer-itis, where nobody uses contractions and everybody says exactly what they means and ... *shudders*
people just -think- in that way and can't help but transmit it in their writing. And it's that sense that I'm being forced to share an alien brain that bugs me as much as anything :>
Right.
It's why I find reading Dreiser or Dickens such a chore, but like the long description-laden sentences of Faulkner, even though I can't write like him. *G*
I aim for spare and hope for lyrical. Sometimes I succeed. But I think people either like it or they don't, as with any other writer, and I, at least, tend to write the kinds of stories I'd like to read. I think that's a factor as well.