....I blame Hayama.
Dec. 7th, 2004 07:50 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaI love boys who think they're mean... except they aren't.
It's like they're the living embodiment of a joke-- being one thing and yet unable to stop acting like another. And then, of course, they have to meet the one person who sees right through them, and the drama just multiplies.
That's what it comes down to. Y'know, those arrogant, arm-crossing, pigtail-pulling, whistling-as-they-walk, impossible-to-handle, secretly-rather-sensitive, stupidly-joking, pretentious little boys. Who then get their come-uppance-- from overly-cheerful, at times overly-brainy, definitely overly-righteous, give-as-good-as-they-get, sweetly-smiling-while-they-wreak-some-havoc little girls <3 Or boys <3
I just needed to put that out there. Even seeing an icon of Hayama from Kodocha makes me all AWWWWW<333333 and then I remember HYD & Alice/Rin and it all goes downhill.
See, that's the problem with the polite, distant and rational type of arrogance-- it's just nowhere near as fun or entertaining to watch for long, but especially when it's presented as being part of an adult's being rather than a boy's defensiveness. Who really wants politely cutting sarcasm (in other words, not really funny and more like stuffy, uninspired & limp-wristed) when you could have that essential pinch of barely-contained anger with your sarcasm? I mean, it's hard to draw the line-- both are mean, one is just more obviously meant to provoke & combative. It's that prelude to sharp-witted fighting that I like, so there has to be a chink in the armor. I mean, if you're too 'smooth', then the only fight would be to use other terms entirely rather than fluster or catch you off-guard. There's less potential for back and forth & escalation with the polite thing.
I think in some ways, it's hard to be really funny if you're not mean in some little way in your teasing, and anyone's who's mean is already not very sophisticated and is rather childish & petty. You can be meanly mocking -and- glibly sophisticated, but only if you're ironic about it-- that is, if the sophistication is all a facade, and really you're using it as a weapon-- but on the other hand, if the drollness is all that's there, the sheer emotion behind real meanness goes away, and one can brush it off. Like, if someone sounds attractively bored while they're mocking you, maybe you'll wibble if you're an insecure little girl, but who with an ounce of self-esteem would fall for that?
Though maybe there's some overlap there. Like, what is the difference between Hayama or Rin (who like to play it cool, definitely... so maybe there's that bored thing going on even though they're pestering and taunting, so it's not like they're Tasuki or Kyou from Fruits Basket, who's all... well, forthright with his temper tantrums, which is the opposite) & like... uh, Lestat (for lack of a better comparison). There's a difference, isn't there? It seems important. Maybe it's that Lestat is -too- jaded, too entrenched, too... invulnerable. Like, Hayama likes to cross his arms and look bored, but he's not really bored when it comes to our protagonist or whatever he really cares about. Hayama's just a 'lone wolf', as Sana likes to say, but he's obviously just... abandoned. Lestat's also a 'lone wolf', but he's the one who abandons. That seems important too.
I think a central point of division between the stereotypes in my head is that what I'm drawn to is pretension-- the masking of self. If there's not that pre-existing vulnerable underbelly constantly alluded to (even if it's by being denied), then there's not enough personality layers & complexity to interest me.
Isn't the fun thing about that other stereotype of uber-aristocratic boredly mocking young man that usually he's contrasted with someone earnest and young and impetuous who makes him drop his mean ways and become sincere? (Watch out, it's a Victorian soap opera. Hee.) So there's no more pigtail-pulling, no more silly contests of wit, no more tension-- just the sort of 'winning over' of the jadedly witted smirking one by the impassioned, moral yet enthusiastic one. And then it's over. Curtain falls, the snark is dead. Though I fall for that, especially in HYD, 'cause... I'm a shameless romantic like that. But I still like the beginning more.
The mean little boy never stops snarking or pigtail-pulling even when he's lost & his partner knows the gig is up, having seen his soft little underbelly, though. On a fangirly note, that's why I love![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
dracolicious <3
Omg, Wyv-Kate's nekkid girl!Harry & Draco >:9
It's like they're the living embodiment of a joke-- being one thing and yet unable to stop acting like another. And then, of course, they have to meet the one person who sees right through them, and the drama just multiplies.
That's what it comes down to. Y'know, those arrogant, arm-crossing, pigtail-pulling, whistling-as-they-walk, impossible-to-handle, secretly-rather-sensitive, stupidly-joking, pretentious little boys. Who then get their come-uppance-- from overly-cheerful, at times overly-brainy, definitely overly-righteous, give-as-good-as-they-get, sweetly-smiling-while-they-wreak-some-havoc little girls <3 Or boys <3
I just needed to put that out there. Even seeing an icon of Hayama from Kodocha makes me all AWWWWW<333333 and then I remember HYD & Alice/Rin and it all goes downhill.
See, that's the problem with the polite, distant and rational type of arrogance-- it's just nowhere near as fun or entertaining to watch for long, but especially when it's presented as being part of an adult's being rather than a boy's defensiveness. Who really wants politely cutting sarcasm (in other words, not really funny and more like stuffy, uninspired & limp-wristed) when you could have that essential pinch of barely-contained anger with your sarcasm? I mean, it's hard to draw the line-- both are mean, one is just more obviously meant to provoke & combative. It's that prelude to sharp-witted fighting that I like, so there has to be a chink in the armor. I mean, if you're too 'smooth', then the only fight would be to use other terms entirely rather than fluster or catch you off-guard. There's less potential for back and forth & escalation with the polite thing.
I think in some ways, it's hard to be really funny if you're not mean in some little way in your teasing, and anyone's who's mean is already not very sophisticated and is rather childish & petty. You can be meanly mocking -and- glibly sophisticated, but only if you're ironic about it-- that is, if the sophistication is all a facade, and really you're using it as a weapon-- but on the other hand, if the drollness is all that's there, the sheer emotion behind real meanness goes away, and one can brush it off. Like, if someone sounds attractively bored while they're mocking you, maybe you'll wibble if you're an insecure little girl, but who with an ounce of self-esteem would fall for that?
Though maybe there's some overlap there. Like, what is the difference between Hayama or Rin (who like to play it cool, definitely... so maybe there's that bored thing going on even though they're pestering and taunting, so it's not like they're Tasuki or Kyou from Fruits Basket, who's all... well, forthright with his temper tantrums, which is the opposite) & like... uh, Lestat (for lack of a better comparison). There's a difference, isn't there? It seems important. Maybe it's that Lestat is -too- jaded, too entrenched, too... invulnerable. Like, Hayama likes to cross his arms and look bored, but he's not really bored when it comes to our protagonist or whatever he really cares about. Hayama's just a 'lone wolf', as Sana likes to say, but he's obviously just... abandoned. Lestat's also a 'lone wolf', but he's the one who abandons. That seems important too.
I think a central point of division between the stereotypes in my head is that what I'm drawn to is pretension-- the masking of self. If there's not that pre-existing vulnerable underbelly constantly alluded to (even if it's by being denied), then there's not enough personality layers & complexity to interest me.
Isn't the fun thing about that other stereotype of uber-aristocratic boredly mocking young man that usually he's contrasted with someone earnest and young and impetuous who makes him drop his mean ways and become sincere? (Watch out, it's a Victorian soap opera. Hee.) So there's no more pigtail-pulling, no more silly contests of wit, no more tension-- just the sort of 'winning over' of the jadedly witted smirking one by the impassioned, moral yet enthusiastic one. And then it's over. Curtain falls, the snark is dead. Though I fall for that, especially in HYD, 'cause... I'm a shameless romantic like that. But I still like the beginning more.
The mean little boy never stops snarking or pigtail-pulling even when he's lost & his partner knows the gig is up, having seen his soft little underbelly, though. On a fangirly note, that's why I love
dracolicious <3Omg, Wyv-Kate's nekkid girl!Harry & Draco >:9
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2004-12-07 09:44 pm (UTC)I haven't read Transfigurations, but in SohW Harry and Draco have been working together for a while at the start of the fic so Harry already knows this new Draco. It does use the fanon convention of "Slytherin Ways" being intriguing (as opposed to canon's Slytherin being the house of morons) but I can see why a writer would be interested in using Slytherin that way. Harry thinks about Slytherin this way now not just because of Draco but because he's a teacher who has to deal with the kids in the house, and it frustrates him the way they have to be so difficult once he gets the tiniest insight into them--like, as an adult he knows they're scared when somebody disappears but they continue to act like little snots to him.
Also, I mean, it seems like part of the appeal of this type of fanon convention, where they're separated for a while and when they come back together Draco's had a chance to catch up to Harry a bit and grow into the man you'd expect with his background, is much the same as OotP is for Harry, where *he* is just too super cool for his enemy to deal with. Isn't that the fantasy for so many people--Ginny lived exactly this in OotP with only a few weeks to account for her change (and then the change was retroactive as well). People actually do come back to their high school reunions having grown up a lot.
I mean, it's true Mira has openly said she's writing fanon!Draco to have a more equal relationship between the two and doesn't think it works as well dramatically to pretend Harry has all this animosity for somebody too far beneath him. But while she's not trying to recreate the kid from canon I think she takes more care than most in making canon part of this Adult!Draco's backstory. One of the biggest appeals of the fic for me is the way it uses the post-Hogwarts world--which is obviously a preference; if you don't want that time period, that's your preference. But everything has pretty much changed for people now that they're not in that artificial school world and I can buy a lot of it. I like thinking of the kids growing up into these adults in ways I don't usually buy post-Hogwarts fics (especially ones that aren't just taking place during "The War" so everybody has a war-related job). Everybody's a bit of a fuck-up--Draco too, I think, only we haven't been given the details of his intervening years. Harry's interested in him because he doesn't know.
I mean...you mentioned Harry not being interested in a Draco like Lucius, but as a character in SohW just explained, that's why Harry's interested in this Draco. He wouldn't be interested in a Draco who became a DE. But if the idea is gaining Harry's interest, I think one could make a good case for Draco no longer needing to beg for Harry's attention being a good start. JKR obviously thought so with Ginny, and SohW!Draco is far less perfect about it, imo.
no subject
Date: 2004-12-07 10:52 pm (UTC)Now I'm wondering if it was unrealistic that Harry kept this grudge against Malfoy in Transfigurations, but... even when Harry thinks Malfoy's beneath him in OoTP, he can't stand him and uses any excuse to beat up on him. Malfoy = slime, so it's not big deal even if Harry doesn't bother thinking of him a lot. And plenty of fics I like have Harry reconsider this attitude almost if not right from the beginning, of course-- it's just that Harry's still recognizably Harry in every other way, so one sees 'oh, well, something happened to change his mind' instead of wondering how to reconcile these two realities, or something...?
Man, but I like Harry's petty animosity :(( And Draco's. And if Harry loses it, I still like how Malfoy flusters him, befuddles him, annoys him, attracts him, matters to him (even in OoTP he did, even if just as an outlet for his rage). It doesn't even matter if it makes them both loser dorks or shows badly upon their characters. :(( Hate forever, man <3 If they don't love, at least they can hate. Indifference is the worst :/ It makes me wibble. The only excuse I can have for indifference is that Draco needs to get over Harry & grow as a separate individual, so he deals with everything & moves on. But that's the death of H/D, though, to me.
I'm all about the equality between them, too, but I don't think you need fanon!Draco to do it-- or rather I don't think you need a pre-made fanon!Draco. It's like, it's 'fanon' if you give Draco motivations/thoughts/interactions that he didn't have in canon, but you don't need to make him aloof and over Harry to do that... he could still compete. And maybe win on his own terms. He could do something unexpected. He could have a secret weapon. He could become a tool of Cthulhu-- that'd -really- startle Harry. There are ways :>
Like... in the RPG Of Doom, every time Draco wants to get back at Harry and 'really show him', he leaves, or threatens to, basically implying something like, 'well look, I don't care anymore, I give up!'. And I'm so sick of that. It's like... Draco doesn't give up. When Draco gives up on Harry is when I give up on H/D, y'know/
I just realized it's not that I like Hogwarts vs. post-Hogwarts so much as I like immaturity and irrationality as the starting points and understanding & a greater maturity as the ending points. So if you start with mature!Harry & likewise Draco, then they'd have to be too 'good' to snipe at each other and have the usual bickering and tension between them, wouldn't they? Unless they 'regress' or something just to progress again, which seems weird...? Like, and if they're not at odds, then what's the point? I mean, you might as well have Harry/Snape, 'cause at least -those- two are always going to have huge issues with each other no matter -what- happens. Ahhh, I just don't want Harry & Draco to have an easy time of getting along~:)) It just seems so... sad :>
no subject
Date: 2004-12-08 11:44 am (UTC)I don't know if I could pick apart this particular one and say what he has or not...I know when I tried to think about him the first thing that came to mind was Harry talking to this little portrait of him in the corner of Grimmauld Place and when he introduced himself as Harry Potter and Draco says that he's older than he is and asks, "Am I grown up too?" and then asks, "Are we friends?" And that, to me, is Draco all over. Even if he says his mother told him he and Harry should be friends, when Harry asks him why he just says, "Who knows why mothers want the things they do," or something. And he's got a wolfhound in the picture and I love him.:-)
But anyway, yeah. See I think probably every pairing contains within it a few different dynamics a slasher can work with, and some have to do with the dynamic in canon, and others have to do with information about the characters that isn't used for the dynamic in canon so much. Really the time people consider it so OOC it doesn't matter anymore is probably when they try to graft one of another pair's dynamic onto it. If H/D is acting like H/S it's not the same if S/R is acting like H/R it's not the same and for some reason who cares?