....I blame Hayama.

[reenka]

I love boys who think they're mean... except they aren't.
    It's like they're the living embodiment of a joke-- being one thing and yet unable to stop acting like another. And then, of course, they have to meet the one person who sees right through them, and the drama just multiplies.

That's what it comes down to. Y'know, those arrogant, arm-crossing, pigtail-pulling, whistling-as-they-walk, impossible-to-handle, secretly-rather-sensitive, stupidly-joking, pretentious little boys. Who then get their come-uppance-- from overly-cheerful, at times overly-brainy, definitely overly-righteous, give-as-good-as-they-get, sweetly-smiling-while-they-wreak-some-havoc little girls <3 Or boys <3

I just needed to put that out there. Even seeing an icon of Hayama from Kodocha makes me all AWWWWW<333333 and then I remember HYD & Alice/Rin and it all goes downhill.


See, that's the problem with the polite, distant and rational type of arrogance-- it's just nowhere near as fun or entertaining to watch for long, but especially when it's presented as being part of an adult's being rather than a boy's defensiveness. Who really wants politely cutting sarcasm (in other words, not really funny and more like stuffy, uninspired & limp-wristed) when you could have that essential pinch of barely-contained anger with your sarcasm? I mean, it's hard to draw the line-- both are mean, one is just more obviously meant to provoke & combative. It's that prelude to sharp-witted fighting that I like, so there has to be a chink in the armor. I mean, if you're too 'smooth', then the only fight would be to use other terms entirely rather than fluster or catch you off-guard. There's less potential for back and forth & escalation with the polite thing.

I think in some ways, it's hard to be really funny if you're not mean in some little way in your teasing, and anyone's who's mean is already not very sophisticated and is rather childish & petty. You can be meanly mocking -and- glibly sophisticated, but only if you're ironic about it-- that is, if the sophistication is all a facade, and really you're using it as a weapon-- but on the other hand, if the drollness is all that's there, the sheer emotion behind real meanness goes away, and one can brush it off. Like, if someone sounds attractively bored while they're mocking you, maybe you'll wibble if you're an insecure little girl, but who with an ounce of self-esteem would fall for that?

Though maybe there's some overlap there. Like, what is the difference between Hayama or Rin (who like to play it cool, definitely... so maybe there's that bored thing going on even though they're pestering and taunting, so it's not like they're Tasuki or Kyou from Fruits Basket, who's all... well, forthright with his temper tantrums, which is the opposite) & like... uh, Lestat (for lack of a better comparison). There's a difference, isn't there? It seems important. Maybe it's that Lestat is -too- jaded, too entrenched, too... invulnerable. Like, Hayama likes to cross his arms and look bored, but he's not really bored when it comes to our protagonist or whatever he really cares about. Hayama's just a 'lone wolf', as Sana likes to say, but he's obviously just... abandoned. Lestat's also a 'lone wolf', but he's the one who abandons. That seems important too.

I think a central point of division between the stereotypes in my head is that what I'm drawn to is pretension-- the masking of self. If there's not that pre-existing vulnerable underbelly constantly alluded to (even if it's by being denied), then there's not enough personality layers & complexity to interest me.

Isn't the fun thing about that other stereotype of uber-aristocratic boredly mocking young man that usually he's contrasted with someone earnest and young and impetuous who makes him drop his mean ways and become sincere? (Watch out, it's a Victorian soap opera. Hee.) So there's no more pigtail-pulling, no more silly contests of wit, no more tension-- just the sort of 'winning over' of the jadedly witted smirking one by the impassioned, moral yet enthusiastic one. And then it's over. Curtain falls, the snark is dead. Though I fall for that, especially in HYD, 'cause... I'm a shameless romantic like that. But I still like the beginning more.

The mean little boy never stops snarking or pigtail-pulling even when he's lost & his partner knows the gig is up, having seen his soft little underbelly, though. On a fangirly note, that's why I love dracolicious <3
    Omg, Wyv-Kate's nekkid girl!Harry & Draco >:9

Comments

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Dude, I am so totally the opposite way. I much prefer the polite and distant arrogance, and find the emotive meanness far less effective and interesting, and kind of feel... okay. When you say:

Like, if someone sounds attractively bored while they're mocking you, maybe you'll wibble if you're an insecure little girl, but who with an ounce of self-esteem would fall for that?

I feel completely the opposite way. I feel like, who with an ounce of self-esteem would fall for proddy bitchy meanness? At least the attractively bored, distantly arrogant, rational and polite asshole sounds like he has come to a rational decision that you suck rather than just emoting at you.

So yeah. ;) Other side of the road entirely. ;)

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

You and I have the same tastes on this, I guess.:-D

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

See, the thing is-- I'm thinking of specific characters, which might be the problem. I edited a bit to make that clearer. Like... both types act bored and distant, but with one it's 'just an act' and you could easily (with the right antagonist) give them a run for their money, and with the other, it's... like... it's like they're Just That Cool And Mature. Or something.

Like... I don't think it's just 'emotive meanness' that I'm talking about in contrast, so I don't think it's the other side of the road, y'know? It's like... Tasuki (from Fushigi Yuugi) or Kyou (from Fruits Basket) is all emotive and angry and GRR ARGH. That's not mean, that's... well, it's cute, the way berserkers are cute (that's just me though).

The 'mean little boy' is all 'I'm so bored and arrogant' but really he's still playing. The arrogant adult-- all he knows is the game, so you can't defeat him except by showing him he's COMPLETELY WRONG about life and/or you in particular, so he'll make an exception for you and not be mean to you anymore. That's what I meant, I -think-??

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Nope nope, still on the opposite side. I'm still all about the ones who really are that distant/rational/cool/mature, and still not nearly as interested in the ones who are just playing, LOL!

I have no idea who Tasuki or Kyou are, but for example? My favorite characters are people like Magneto, or Kunzite from Sailor Moon, or such like that. Not so much excited about the emotive sorts, really.

Which is funny, since in HP my favorite character is Sirius? LOL! I mean, you'd think it'd be fanon!Lucius, or Remus or something, hahah.

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Hee! I love my rational arrogant bastards.

...and that is such a strange thing to say in this fandom, where I only seem to talk about the Gryffindors and my favorite character is a total hothead. :)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I actually love stoic characters (who tend to be distant & mature), too-- like Sherlock Holmes and Spock and stuff-- it's just that they're not mean. Stoic & mean doesn't really go together in my head, y'know? It's just... weird, because I associate 'stoic' with 'moral' perhaps a bit too much. I think one can be unemotional & mean, definitely, but I only tend to like that if the character's messed up and is just being defensive & isn't really... evil or anything.

Like, the characters like Draco (can be) or Hayama (definitely) aren't really emotive in the straightforward sense of being sincere (that's more like... um, Jim Kirk-- the typical hero-- if you're going for 'not mean' or say... Han Solo or Wolverine, maybe, if you're going for 'kinda mean' as in, extraverted rogue types... which I also like, but not because they're so mean).

I sort of like the intraverted rogue-- who tries to play it cool and succeeds except when he's met his match. Or something. Um. Does that make any sense? :-?

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I am starting to suspect this is why you like all those fanon!Dracos~:))) ahahahaldfkjs;ldkjl

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Yeah, see, I don't like the Holmesian/Spock sorts that much (OMG UNEMOTIONAL SLASH OTP!!1! anyway.) I like the characters who are calculating and brilliant and rational to the bone and can cut things up with their words (if they're that kind of person) or are just totally straightforward but not particularly emotional (like well-written Magneto, or Claremont!Magneto anyway.) They're cool and arrogant and mature, yes. That is what I love.

Whereas characters who try to play it cool kind of annoy me because they're full of pretense? Which is maybe why I like Sirius now that I'm thinking about it - he doesn't even act at being mature. ;)

Draco, I don't really have any idea what to think of him, to be honest. I mean, on one hand I think he is pretty sincere, in that what he says really is what he thinks, but on the other hand I think it's a naive sort of sincerity because I'm not convinced he has any idea how deep the shit he says really is. He's a bit of a parrot, really, I think.

But it's hard with JKR's "villainous" characters (in quotes because Draco hasn't actually DONE anything, so it's kind of odd to consider him a villain at this point) because she doesn't develop them very well. Which, I think, is why this is one of very few fandoms where I liked the heroes better than the villains.

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Dude, the best Draco I have EVER SEEN = nocturne_alley!Draco. I didn't always love NA, but I could have read the entire game in one sitting for their Draco. (And their Harry and Millicent, omg! A lot of the adults made me want to smack them, though.)

...anyway. Right. So that's my favorite Draco I've ever run across, and he wasn't really mature, but he did form my view of Draco forever, I think.

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Oh, I should mention, the reason I don't like Holmesian and Spock sorts is probably BECAUSE they combine stoic with moral, which bores me. I prefer immoral/amoral stoicism, cos it's more fun. ;)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

He's a total mean little boy, too~:)) Though... it's hard to know what he's really feeling/thinking, though he's got the appearance of just being who he is and nothing more or less-- not much with the layers, anyway. I... like layers. And also N_A!Draco, but not as much as I love Maya's!Draco or even a similar Draco except where we get to hear his thoughts and see how in denial he is (like with Miss Breed's or Silvia's stuff).

I think with N_A, even though he wasn't mature, he was very well-formed already, and even though he did change in his attitudes towards Harry & Ron and such, he remained... himself. Which is fine & rather realistic, it's just that I feel... unsatisfied unless I see characters I like without their barriers. I'm voyeuristic like that :D

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

LOL! Which fanon Draco's would these be? Didn't you start out loving Fanon!Draco?

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

It does sound more fun-- 'cause in a way, amorality is often a chaotic, passionate trait, while stoicism puts a huge damper on it, so it's interesting in that way.... I think I'm just always uber-focused on the soft underbelly, and if I don't get to see it, I pout a lot :D So I'm perfectly fascinated with an amoral stoic character like say, Elric (from Moorcock's novels), 'cause he has all this angst and PANE and NO ONE UNDERSTANDS~:) Even if he doesn't show it.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Well, it depends on what we're liking the *for*. I HATE boys like this in life. In school I would avoid them and run from them because they would be mean to me.

As characters, love 'em! They don't insult me when they're fictional.:-)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Well, Mira's & Fran's & uh... well, ice-prince!Draco :> Whom I hate with the true and unflinching passion of a thousand burning suns, and um... I often say that. I should have a collection of "I HATE ICY DRACO" posts in my memories, 'cause I'm sure I've made more than a dozen by now~:)) I don't think either Maya's or Cassie Claire's (though fanon) fit that category of fanon, btw, 'cause their Draco is so obviously vulnerable.

The Draco I started out loving was Ivy's, Erin's, Aja's, Silvia's, Amalin's, Penelope's, Riddle's, Marysia's-- old skool all the way!!1 Fanon but a different fanon. That's sensitive!angsty!obsessed!Draco and silly!deluded!sarcastic-twit!Draco <3<3<3

I hate him if he's in control of himself (or Harry). Hate. Hate. HATE :>

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Ahahaha, you're probably a Gambit person! *points and pokes* Err, if you even know who he is, hee.

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Hee! Again with the opposite side thing, because I enjoyed that you never saw his barriers down. Realistic and all that, but then I'm all about the realism. Like, aside from the good writing in general, the main reason I loved him was because I could actually envision that Draco being the same Draco I saw in the books, which I can't with... well, most Dracos.

Canon!whore and all that jazz. ;)

And I think, in canon, Draco isn't a particularly layered person, so I tend to be irritated by very layered Dracos, because then they don't register as real Dracos. If that makes sense. O_o

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I do so know! I mentioned Wolverine, didn't I :> :> Did you think I just watched the movies? :> hee! Nay, I watched the cartoon!! :))



AND YES, I AM SO A GAMBIT PERSON!! HEAR ME PWOAR, OMG!!1 Gambit is one of my favorite characters along with Rogue (ahhh, Rogue/Gambit 4Evah), Jubilee (who's a lot like me, prolly), movie!St. John (YUMMY SLASH) & Storm (I covet her powers). I also like Scott 'cause I'm a sucker for stupid hero-types :> Oh, and I really like Professor X >:D

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I also like realism! heh. I just like emotional realism! And I feel like everyone has depths to them especially if they're passionate/driven by their emotions (or at least jealousy/anger/envy/pride/resentment) like Draco is. Like... that's why I write about him, 'cause while I want him to be IC-- it's a challenge to write him close to canon and yet extrapolate to the point where he's a fully rounded person too :> Otherwise he'd bore the living daylights out of me ^^;

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

ROFLMAO! I FRICKING HATE GAMBIT. I used to be infamous on the x-men newsgroup for my GAMBIT BASHING because I FRELLING DETEST HIM. Okay, not as much now because notsomuch with the X-Men thing, but OMG I HATED HIM. I love Rogue, but I was a total Rogue/Magneto shipper, dude. 100%.

...that might not make sense if you've never read the comics, LOL! And at the time, it was a realistic thing to ship. ALAS NOT ANYMORE but fortunately I've moved on too, so I'm not too devastated. ;)

Aaaand I liked Jean. And Scott, yes. Was never much for Jubilee, which is funny cos I like you, LOL (but then, I don't like Luna either?) *thinks thinks thinks* ...I shouldn't keep going cos then I'll start talking 40 years of fricking X-Men history. ;)

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Eeeeee, I don't mean to say you dislike realism, LOL! Just that I liked the format of NA because it was full of barriers, basically.

ANYWHO, I do agree that everyone has depths, absolutely. But I suppose the trouble is that, when I'm dealing with fanfiction, my concern is more heavily weighted toward wanting to see the book character recreated than wanting to see a realistic personal recreated? And yes, flat characters will bore me, but that's why I don't read fanfic about underdeveloped characters, I suppose - because if you add a lot to them, I no longer feel they're the same person, and if you don't, they're dull. Yeah.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Ahahahah I almost want to read the huge nightmare of back-issues that is the X-Men universe just to see how in the world Rogue/Magneto works~:)) Ahahahaha omg. I like Rogue/Gambit for the simple and ever-pervasive reason that they bicker and are doomed, and I'm a sucker for that <3<3<3 As everyone knows.

I think I'm sort of... um... multifaceted~:)) Like, I used to be more like Luna than I am, and sometimes I've got an attitude and a hard shell like Jubilee (or like, Ginny or Harry), but sometimes... well, on lj especially, I'm just quiet and discuss things a lot~:)) Okay, not so much with the quiet ^^;; I'm really sekritly not quiet at all. But :> What I mean is, I'm much more toned down & rational than either Jubilee or Luna :> Who're kind of opposites, btw :D

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Heheh I think this is all influenced by the fact that I started out in fandom before reading canon~:)) Usually, if I really like canon, I totally want to stick to it & see it 100% recreated (...though I don't know if that's possible). And clearly when I started writing Draco (soon after I started reading him), I wasn't looking to recreate canon by any means >:D I just found I coincidentally liked a more canon-like Draco than some people :> So yes, to me he's kind of... my character as much as JKR's o_0 um. yeah -.- I do have a pretty clear picture of him in my head and it -does- correspond to canon pretty well (from all accounts), but it's still my picture & the canon-resemblance is... not 100% intentional. heh.

I'm not like that with any other character, though. Then again, I'm not invested in anyone else the same way, in terms of fanfic-- as in, I don't feel the need to extrapolate their future or add depth to them, I more want to explore them as they are in canon (so while I like Harry & Ron, I don't want to mess with them). On the other hand, I feel fully-developed characters are harder to write 'cause it's so difficult to avoid my personal 'stamp' getting on them. Like, with Draco I have more leg-room 'cause less is known about him than Harry, for instance, so it's easier to smudge things-- unless any smudging at all is too much :>

But since I really don't care about preserving the sanctity of canon in Draco's case, I feel sort of... like I want to pay attention to it as source material rather than as... the destination I want to go. Because Draco's destination/demeanor in canon just bothers me a lot. And somehow through all the fanfic, he started living in my head and now I can't get him out. He's stubborn like that :>

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Hahahah! It's true, they are different - Luna's a bit sedated and eccentric, and Jubilee's a bit sugar rushed and normal, but I admit I filed them both under "vaguely annoying teenager." I KNOW, I'M SO BAD. *palmface*

The Rogue/Magneto thing basically took place mooooostly in a few issues in the late 200s of Uncanny, but the writers dragged it out a great deal for the next few years - there was a lot of "OMG MAGNETO IS BACK WILL ROGUE CHOOSE HIM OR GAMBIT?!?!?" and an alternate universe where they were married with a son. *swoon of nostalgia.*

I'm starting to think I have a kink for "stoic lover/impulsive lover" though - Magneto/Rogue, Angel/Buffy, Remus/Sirius... not all of my favorite pairings fall under that category, but I do think it seems to be emerging as a favorite flavor of romance (even though my favorite portrayal of Rogue/Magneto was in that alternate universe, and Rogue was pretty mature/not impulsive... hum.)

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Hmm--that's odd since I would never really associate myself with Fran and Mira's Draco. I mean--when I say associate myself I don't mean "I wouldn't associate with them" like I hold them in contempt, just that they're not immediately what I think of as "my" version of Draco. Fran's in particular--in Resolution (as opposed to Malfoy Watching). Mira's I do like but he's not the draw of her story for me--I love the whole story and everyone is an interesting character, including Draco. I liked the very small flashes to Year 7!Draco we got in this last chapter, but my favorite Draco interaction in SohW so far is the one Harry has with portrait!Draco, who I think is perfectly believable for Child!Draco speaking to what he presumes is a Pureblood adult.

It's true I don't hate a Draco who's controlled or smooth if I like whatever particular character he is--particularly in Mira's case when he's older and I actually think any writer *should* make him somewhat more controlled because honestly, I think by the time he's 25 he can't realistically be a goofy kid the way he is in canon. Sometimes, actually, I think that's a real challenge in writing him. Like, satinrose mentioned NA!Draco above, and you know I adore potterstinks, but I remember his player saying she wouldn't know how to write him without Lucius if she had to continue and I felt in the game ps was perpetually a child--like he was fully-formed and would not change. Even when people were projecting into the future Draco did not change at all, he was just an old man version of himself...and I just didn't think that would be realistic, really. I mean, it wasn't that I had a version of Draco that I had planned myself, but given what we'd seen at the end of the game I felt like it had gotten to where keeping him true to canon in the very same ways that made him great in NA would actually have been artificial.

It's like Snape--if we had seen books set in MWPP era I seriously doubt that *anybody* would have come up with the Snape of canon for futurefic. So yeah, with Draco I do honestly think that while he'll always be himself he should, as an adult, be more controlled and probably seem, superficially, more icy than Harry because Harry isn't part of the same social circle. He wouldn't always be controlled, but I think he'd have gotten better at the affected iciness he's been attempting since his first scene.