....I blame Hayama.

[reenka]

I love boys who think they're mean... except they aren't.
    It's like they're the living embodiment of a joke-- being one thing and yet unable to stop acting like another. And then, of course, they have to meet the one person who sees right through them, and the drama just multiplies.

That's what it comes down to. Y'know, those arrogant, arm-crossing, pigtail-pulling, whistling-as-they-walk, impossible-to-handle, secretly-rather-sensitive, stupidly-joking, pretentious little boys. Who then get their come-uppance-- from overly-cheerful, at times overly-brainy, definitely overly-righteous, give-as-good-as-they-get, sweetly-smiling-while-they-wreak-some-havoc little girls <3 Or boys <3

I just needed to put that out there. Even seeing an icon of Hayama from Kodocha makes me all AWWWWW<333333 and then I remember HYD & Alice/Rin and it all goes downhill.


See, that's the problem with the polite, distant and rational type of arrogance-- it's just nowhere near as fun or entertaining to watch for long, but especially when it's presented as being part of an adult's being rather than a boy's defensiveness. Who really wants politely cutting sarcasm (in other words, not really funny and more like stuffy, uninspired & limp-wristed) when you could have that essential pinch of barely-contained anger with your sarcasm? I mean, it's hard to draw the line-- both are mean, one is just more obviously meant to provoke & combative. It's that prelude to sharp-witted fighting that I like, so there has to be a chink in the armor. I mean, if you're too 'smooth', then the only fight would be to use other terms entirely rather than fluster or catch you off-guard. There's less potential for back and forth & escalation with the polite thing.

I think in some ways, it's hard to be really funny if you're not mean in some little way in your teasing, and anyone's who's mean is already not very sophisticated and is rather childish & petty. You can be meanly mocking -and- glibly sophisticated, but only if you're ironic about it-- that is, if the sophistication is all a facade, and really you're using it as a weapon-- but on the other hand, if the drollness is all that's there, the sheer emotion behind real meanness goes away, and one can brush it off. Like, if someone sounds attractively bored while they're mocking you, maybe you'll wibble if you're an insecure little girl, but who with an ounce of self-esteem would fall for that?

Though maybe there's some overlap there. Like, what is the difference between Hayama or Rin (who like to play it cool, definitely... so maybe there's that bored thing going on even though they're pestering and taunting, so it's not like they're Tasuki or Kyou from Fruits Basket, who's all... well, forthright with his temper tantrums, which is the opposite) & like... uh, Lestat (for lack of a better comparison). There's a difference, isn't there? It seems important. Maybe it's that Lestat is -too- jaded, too entrenched, too... invulnerable. Like, Hayama likes to cross his arms and look bored, but he's not really bored when it comes to our protagonist or whatever he really cares about. Hayama's just a 'lone wolf', as Sana likes to say, but he's obviously just... abandoned. Lestat's also a 'lone wolf', but he's the one who abandons. That seems important too.

I think a central point of division between the stereotypes in my head is that what I'm drawn to is pretension-- the masking of self. If there's not that pre-existing vulnerable underbelly constantly alluded to (even if it's by being denied), then there's not enough personality layers & complexity to interest me.

Isn't the fun thing about that other stereotype of uber-aristocratic boredly mocking young man that usually he's contrasted with someone earnest and young and impetuous who makes him drop his mean ways and become sincere? (Watch out, it's a Victorian soap opera. Hee.) So there's no more pigtail-pulling, no more silly contests of wit, no more tension-- just the sort of 'winning over' of the jadedly witted smirking one by the impassioned, moral yet enthusiastic one. And then it's over. Curtain falls, the snark is dead. Though I fall for that, especially in HYD, 'cause... I'm a shameless romantic like that. But I still like the beginning more.

The mean little boy never stops snarking or pigtail-pulling even when he's lost & his partner knows the gig is up, having seen his soft little underbelly, though. On a fangirly note, that's why I love dracolicious <3
    Omg, Wyv-Kate's nekkid girl!Harry & Draco >:9

Comments

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

See, the thing is-- I'm thinking of specific characters, which might be the problem. I edited a bit to make that clearer. Like... both types act bored and distant, but with one it's 'just an act' and you could easily (with the right antagonist) give them a run for their money, and with the other, it's... like... it's like they're Just That Cool And Mature. Or something.

Like... I don't think it's just 'emotive meanness' that I'm talking about in contrast, so I don't think it's the other side of the road, y'know? It's like... Tasuki (from Fushigi Yuugi) or Kyou (from Fruits Basket) is all emotive and angry and GRR ARGH. That's not mean, that's... well, it's cute, the way berserkers are cute (that's just me though).

The 'mean little boy' is all 'I'm so bored and arrogant' but really he's still playing. The arrogant adult-- all he knows is the game, so you can't defeat him except by showing him he's COMPLETELY WRONG about life and/or you in particular, so he'll make an exception for you and not be mean to you anymore. That's what I meant, I -think-??

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Nope nope, still on the opposite side. I'm still all about the ones who really are that distant/rational/cool/mature, and still not nearly as interested in the ones who are just playing, LOL!

I have no idea who Tasuki or Kyou are, but for example? My favorite characters are people like Magneto, or Kunzite from Sailor Moon, or such like that. Not so much excited about the emotive sorts, really.

Which is funny, since in HP my favorite character is Sirius? LOL! I mean, you'd think it'd be fanon!Lucius, or Remus or something, hahah.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I actually love stoic characters (who tend to be distant & mature), too-- like Sherlock Holmes and Spock and stuff-- it's just that they're not mean. Stoic & mean doesn't really go together in my head, y'know? It's just... weird, because I associate 'stoic' with 'moral' perhaps a bit too much. I think one can be unemotional & mean, definitely, but I only tend to like that if the character's messed up and is just being defensive & isn't really... evil or anything.

Like, the characters like Draco (can be) or Hayama (definitely) aren't really emotive in the straightforward sense of being sincere (that's more like... um, Jim Kirk-- the typical hero-- if you're going for 'not mean' or say... Han Solo or Wolverine, maybe, if you're going for 'kinda mean' as in, extraverted rogue types... which I also like, but not because they're so mean).

I sort of like the intraverted rogue-- who tries to play it cool and succeeds except when he's met his match. Or something. Um. Does that make any sense? :-?

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Yeah, see, I don't like the Holmesian/Spock sorts that much (OMG UNEMOTIONAL SLASH OTP!!1! anyway.) I like the characters who are calculating and brilliant and rational to the bone and can cut things up with their words (if they're that kind of person) or are just totally straightforward but not particularly emotional (like well-written Magneto, or Claremont!Magneto anyway.) They're cool and arrogant and mature, yes. That is what I love.

Whereas characters who try to play it cool kind of annoy me because they're full of pretense? Which is maybe why I like Sirius now that I'm thinking about it - he doesn't even act at being mature. ;)

Draco, I don't really have any idea what to think of him, to be honest. I mean, on one hand I think he is pretty sincere, in that what he says really is what he thinks, but on the other hand I think it's a naive sort of sincerity because I'm not convinced he has any idea how deep the shit he says really is. He's a bit of a parrot, really, I think.

But it's hard with JKR's "villainous" characters (in quotes because Draco hasn't actually DONE anything, so it's kind of odd to consider him a villain at this point) because she doesn't develop them very well. Which, I think, is why this is one of very few fandoms where I liked the heroes better than the villains.

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Oh, I should mention, the reason I don't like Holmesian and Spock sorts is probably BECAUSE they combine stoic with moral, which bores me. I prefer immoral/amoral stoicism, cos it's more fun. ;)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

It does sound more fun-- 'cause in a way, amorality is often a chaotic, passionate trait, while stoicism puts a huge damper on it, so it's interesting in that way.... I think I'm just always uber-focused on the soft underbelly, and if I don't get to see it, I pout a lot :D So I'm perfectly fascinated with an amoral stoic character like say, Elric (from Moorcock's novels), 'cause he has all this angst and PANE and NO ONE UNDERSTANDS~:) Even if he doesn't show it.

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Ahahaha, you're probably a Gambit person! *points and pokes* Err, if you even know who he is, hee.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I do so know! I mentioned Wolverine, didn't I :> :> Did you think I just watched the movies? :> hee! Nay, I watched the cartoon!! :))



AND YES, I AM SO A GAMBIT PERSON!! HEAR ME PWOAR, OMG!!1 Gambit is one of my favorite characters along with Rogue (ahhh, Rogue/Gambit 4Evah), Jubilee (who's a lot like me, prolly), movie!St. John (YUMMY SLASH) & Storm (I covet her powers). I also like Scott 'cause I'm a sucker for stupid hero-types :> Oh, and I really like Professor X >:D

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

ROFLMAO! I FRICKING HATE GAMBIT. I used to be infamous on the x-men newsgroup for my GAMBIT BASHING because I FRELLING DETEST HIM. Okay, not as much now because notsomuch with the X-Men thing, but OMG I HATED HIM. I love Rogue, but I was a total Rogue/Magneto shipper, dude. 100%.

...that might not make sense if you've never read the comics, LOL! And at the time, it was a realistic thing to ship. ALAS NOT ANYMORE but fortunately I've moved on too, so I'm not too devastated. ;)

Aaaand I liked Jean. And Scott, yes. Was never much for Jubilee, which is funny cos I like you, LOL (but then, I don't like Luna either?) *thinks thinks thinks* ...I shouldn't keep going cos then I'll start talking 40 years of fricking X-Men history. ;)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Ahahahah I almost want to read the huge nightmare of back-issues that is the X-Men universe just to see how in the world Rogue/Magneto works~:)) Ahahahaha omg. I like Rogue/Gambit for the simple and ever-pervasive reason that they bicker and are doomed, and I'm a sucker for that <3<3<3 As everyone knows.

I think I'm sort of... um... multifaceted~:)) Like, I used to be more like Luna than I am, and sometimes I've got an attitude and a hard shell like Jubilee (or like, Ginny or Harry), but sometimes... well, on lj especially, I'm just quiet and discuss things a lot~:)) Okay, not so much with the quiet ^^;; I'm really sekritly not quiet at all. But :> What I mean is, I'm much more toned down & rational than either Jubilee or Luna :> Who're kind of opposites, btw :D

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Hahahah! It's true, they are different - Luna's a bit sedated and eccentric, and Jubilee's a bit sugar rushed and normal, but I admit I filed them both under "vaguely annoying teenager." I KNOW, I'M SO BAD. *palmface*

The Rogue/Magneto thing basically took place mooooostly in a few issues in the late 200s of Uncanny, but the writers dragged it out a great deal for the next few years - there was a lot of "OMG MAGNETO IS BACK WILL ROGUE CHOOSE HIM OR GAMBIT?!?!?" and an alternate universe where they were married with a son. *swoon of nostalgia.*

I'm starting to think I have a kink for "stoic lover/impulsive lover" though - Magneto/Rogue, Angel/Buffy, Remus/Sirius... not all of my favorite pairings fall under that category, but I do think it seems to be emerging as a favorite flavor of romance (even though my favorite portrayal of Rogue/Magneto was in that alternate universe, and Rogue was pretty mature/not impulsive... hum.)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Hehehe I was a VERY annoying teenager~:)) I've... grown up a bit >:D!! AHAHAHhlfkjasl;kjd;glkj And also I think um, I'm not that oblivious to people (in the sugar-high way-- which I still get a lot-- or the out-in-space way) unless I don't bother :>

I totally love stoic/impulsive pairings!!1 I love any kind of complementary pairing, but I was actually talking about stoic/impulsive with my initial post about the arrogant-mocking!boy (stoic) and the forthright-sincere!girl (impulsive) >:D At least that's how it worked in the anime I was thinking of :D

Stoic/impulsive is so much fun >:D Shenanigans and everything. I think my problem with Angel/Buffy is that Angel's that brand of stoic that somehow manages to register as 'what a complete stuffy wanker' in my head & is thus totally not cool. But you prolly like him 'cause he just is what he is, except when he isn't~:))!!

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

LMAO! I wasn't an annoying teenager so much as a nonexistent teenager, by which I mean "hidden in a corner pretending everyone didn't exist and not looking up from whatever I was doing at the time." HEHEHE.

And yep, that is why I love Angel. I like Spike too, though - I never managed to fit into the whole Angel vs. Spike thing that went on, LOL! I even liked BOTH Buffy/Angel AND Buffy/Spike, just in different ways (and Buffy/Spike bored me in the 7th season, but then so did everything else.)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

>:D! I was a nonexistent-yet-annoying teenager~:)) That is to say, I'm really asocial, hermitic and shy-- and was worse in High School. BUT, I was still a complete freak & rebel 'cause I skipped like a third of High School, subtly rebelled against authority figures, drove my mother insane by never listening to her and using her money to buy books & anime, and was a general delinquent. As well as still remaining that shy quiet girl in the corner when in public :> So I'm like... well, imagine if Harry's asocialness was much much worse than it is 'cause he'd never gone to Hogwarts and made any friends, and you get an approximation of how I acted :>

I think I might have wound up loving B/A if I ever watched those seasons when they were on-- it's just that all my experiences with Angel made me go, "OMG WHAT A DICKHEAD" so I sort of... avoided further exposure ^^;;; I dunno what it is. He's not so bad on Angel, but any time he interacts with Buffy or the Scoobies, I want to smack someone. Possibly even myself ^^;;; But I like the whole hopeless-first-love thing a lot. *sigh*

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Ahahaha Holmes & Spock would never undress because it would be illogical~:)) AHAHAHAHAHAH *coughs* But no, this goes against my stoic/impulsive OTP roots, man (KIRK/SPOCK 4EVAH!!1!!11! ...it was my first-- platonic-- pairing, y'know.)

I think I sort of like pretense, which is such a weird thing to say, 'cause normally I believe I want 'the truth' in a person, and I want them to just be who they are. But that'd be the driving force of any story about them-- trying to get them to stop pretending & be who they are~:) That whole self-acceptance/self-discovery thing is a big theme for me in my favorite stories/shows anyway. Like... that progression, that tension to be overcome. It's frustrating and annoying if someone's pretentious, but that's why I like them challenged by sincere, passionate people :>

Also, the pretension implies a deeper layer, and I'm all obsessed with the deeper 'sekrit' layers of everyone/everything :> Not the obvious truth but the SUPER SEKRIT TRUTH OMG :>

Draco's like, a weird combination of pretension (in so far as he puts on airs and most likely lies to get what he wants and he's such a poncey snobbish bastard) and sincerity, yeah-- 'cause he is just parroting/unaware of what he's really saying. So he's naive. I like to sort of tear away that naivete from him in fics-- like... get him to really see things as they are and watch him sink or swim :> But that's because I like to torture him :> I mean, it's not that I like Draco better. I just like to play with him :>

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Ahahaha Holmes & Spock would never undress because it would be illogical~:))

*DIES* OMG HAHAHHAA!

And this is fascinating, I am learning a great deal about your fic tastes! I think I prefer revelation to pretense: like Magneto, he's not hiding who he is, but there's more there than there seems to be, as well, know what I mean? Because it's not like everything's on the surface, but at the same time, he's not trying to pretend either. Yeah!

And you are a DRACO TORTURER!

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Revelation is good too! I'm not picky. I just want that transformation to happen. And like... hmm, in my original post I was trying to get at the difference between the 'bored, icy, jaded' meanness and the 'falsely bored, asocial, defensive' meanness by saying that it seems like in stories, the bored/jaded/controlled mean boys get 'reformed', y'know, and so in a way, it was more pretension-gone-soul-deep than the defensively mean boys who might be more naive and vulnerable but they keep being bastards even when they're 'tamed' and 'revealed', because it's not that they're trying to pretend, perhaps, so much as they're not really like that and yet are at the same time! Um. Does that make any sense :-? So they don't need to be 'reformed' in the quite same way, 'cause they sort of blossom into their true selves vs. having their mean/icy selves ripped away by love. Um.



And yes, I'm most -definitely- a Draco torturer (and also revealer), MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHA. DANCE, FERRET, DANCE!!1

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

AHA! Yes, I that does make sense.

And I should mention that I don't like people who are reformed by love in any scenario, so yeah I prefer to keep my bored, icy, jaded people bored, icy and jaded. >:)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Hee... I think it's not really that they're reformed by love in terms of acting differently in general-- I like it when there's this one person who sees through a character, sees his past contradictory facets to the face he never shows. So really, I like people who're not bored, icy or jaded except they act like it because they -think- they are. :> And then they keep on acting like it, except usually-- usually-- not to this one person who accepts them as they are~:) Or something. So it's not quite that they're reformed by love... because people don't get reformed, they just grow into themselves sometimes. :>

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Well, it depends on what we're liking the *for*. I HATE boys like this in life. In school I would avoid them and run from them because they would be mean to me.

As characters, love 'em! They don't insult me when they're fictional.:-)