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reenkaI guess it just hit me that it's not H/D I've gotten tired of as much as any other people's ideas of it. It's so hard to think outside the box-- or at least, to have thoughts that are truly your own-- if you're always in touch with everyone else's thoughts on the subject. At some stages, of course it's helpful and educational-- expands one's worldview-- but eventually the learning is over and done with, and there's truly nothing more to be done except to develop one's own mind on a subject.
And that's where I am-- it's been fun, but I really feel there's nothing left for me to learn about H/D from other people, for now. Which is kind of sad, actually.
I only realized this when I was thinking how H/D the way I want to envision it (whether or not it contradicts canon is another matter) is not a pairing of non-equals. Whatever it takes-- whatever I have to have Draco do-- I want to do it. I can't stand romance between a person who looks down on another and the person who needs the former one's attention. This might be 'as is' in canon, but the reason I write fic in the first place is to supplement canon, isn't it. Actually, that set-up, that imbalance, makes me ill. Equality is my priority, and it's not about turning Draco into someone suave and debonair-- it's about making him 'on the level' in some way I myself consider in character. While I do believe in canon, Harry needs to see Draco as worthy of some sort of consideration/respect 'as is', I don't consider this basic acknowledgement of worth as a human to be enough for romance. And in this, I'm not claiming authority-- I'm only saying it's not enough for me, and as such it's not open to debate, anyway. And that's what this is all about-- the realization that I need to start focusing on my own vision in my writing, and stop dallying about writing on automatic, the way it's easiest.
So it is my vision that for romance, Harry would need to admire Draco in some way. In any way. He'd need to-- well-- be able to put him on some sort of pedestal. That's how romantic love works. It's not about Draco being 'cool'-- it's just about him being a strong, active (vs. reactive) presence. A challenge. A cipher to be unravelled. An equal emotional counterpoint.
It's not about imbalance of feeling-- because feelings can't be equal, and because both people feel overwhelmed and weak when they're in love. This is different. This is about power, and if I can't manage to give Draco different-but-equal power to Harry, then H/D is over for me, and my writing is, in the end, about me (muwahahah! feel my POWER!). However-- in the future, when I feel like it-- I can write fic that rectifies this, because, well, in fic there are infinite possibilities.
But no more top/bottom(!!!) because I don't care who bottoms as long as it doesn't define them; no more laughably-obsessed!Draco, sensible!Draco -or- mad!Draco, no more uber-sexy!Draco, perfect-Slytherin!Draco, secret-Hufflepuff!Draco, though perhaps more His Father's Son!Draco and Snape's Favorite!Draco, 'cause I haven't played with them much; no more smug!Harry (or Draco-- god, the smugness needs to die for now); no more paying attention to any dynamic that didn't come from my own head and what I personally see in canon, basically. No more over-compensation, no more wit meant to cover up a lack of stable foundation, no more lust as the basis of the relationship, no more Draco needing while Harry rejects forever-and-ever-amen. There has to be a change, because that is not the pairing I loved.
Ahhh, it feels good to purge.
...It just seems like fandom's just about a) squeeing-- which gets old after you've first expressed yourself; b) arguing, which gets even older after you've seen everyone and their brother rehash the same arguments 984798347 times; and c) nitpicking, which drives me insane. Maybe it's just HP that's so sharply divided between mindless adulation and utter bitching, and the fandoms which center around older audiences are different, though I can't really be bothered in any case. Mind you, I'd take adulation over the bitching, 'cause at least -that- feels -good-, and I still don't get why one would be in a fandom to feel bad. Maybe it's just me, though.
~~
You know, all this time in fandom, and I'm still not used to the term 'angst-whore'. I mean, I can understand enjoying well-done tear-jerkers or tragedies or what have you or thinking that they're more 'deep' or 'meaningful' than good comedies (offensive as I find that pov)-- but to be specifically geared to only enjoy fic of that nature just strikes me as disturbing. Imagine if nothing made you really happy to imagine except misery! If nothing else, after a certain point, constancy in everything turns dull, even sadness-- as most depressed people know. Oh well. People who favor seriousness all (or most of) the time scare me, but let's move on.
So... thanks to![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
shaggirl, I was thinking about gay porn... (I love that sentence, btw).
In particular, I was thinking about the difference between male-oriented homoerotica/porn and (female-oriented) slash. And it seems to me that the difference is between the former's focus on the audience and the latter's focus on the participants.
It seems like in most 'men's' porn, it doesn't matter whether the couple involved really enjoys themselves (this isn't getting into non-con, but I guess you could apply 'enjoyment' to 'scene' non-con too, actually). The focus in most porn/erotica I've seen seems to be on getting the viewer off, rather than the two people playing the parts. This occurred to me in regard to orgasms, mainly-- the orgasms seem to be 'for show' more than anything-- the people can't come when they want to or in any sort of spontaneous way. There has to be a 'come-shot', it seems like, and this is clearly for the benefit of the audience more than anything.
I was also thinking this, wondering why more porn 'actors' don't get it on with people they actually want-- like, why couldn't that be the basis of who does what with whom? Seems simple, doesn't it? I mean, what's the point of supposedly consensual sex (which I consider a Good Thing in nearly all instances as a point of basic philosophy) if one's having it with a person one doesn't lust after? I was even having visions of revolutionizing the whole industry with this idea of fuck who you want, heh. Surely there's a large enough variety of people to always have attractive and willing participants who're also hot for each other. You'd think.
And then I realized that's not the point: because the presumed male viewer basically doesn't care, and the 'bottom line' is the audience. The male viewer doesn't think about the real emotions or desires of those people-- from what I can tell, men (gay or straight) use porn as fantasy-fodder, which means these aren't 'real people' to them, and the male relationship with (sexual) fantasy is apparently intrinsically less emotionally focused and more mechanical/visual. And the visual signifiers of emotion/lust probably don't matter, in that case, so they need not be shown.
Naturally, slash-- and female-written commercial romance/smut novels-- would have the exact opposite dynamic. Here, the audience is present but recedes into the background because what everyone's focused on is the players and how they feel. Especially with a female-centered perspective on two men together, it's going to have to be at least partly about a process of identification rather than objectification; the male viewer, otoh, seems to be predominantly concerned with action vs. reaction. Not that both don't occur in some measure no matter what; it's just a question of balances. It's difficult to fully compare, of course, because part of it is the inherent differences between the storytelling medium-- and its focus on emotion-- and minimalism of expression being so much easier to achieve in any visual medium. Eh. Maybe this explains why I (with my uber-emotionally-centered sensibilities) am apparently given to only writing slash for book-based fandoms.
~~
Apologiesaccepted.com actually made me tear up a little o_0 Well, happily :> I really feel like the net makes the world a village at the moment. Awwww, I kinda ♥ the world right now. <3<3 Apparently there are a lot of cool people in Holland & the Netherlands. Who knew? :> (...Someone stop me from busting out with John Lennon... okay, too late.)
Ahhhh, and such cute H/D art, awwww. I wuv confused!Harry and evilly-smirking!Draco <3<3<3 Oh, evil!Draco. *lovestruck sigh* Though I really like dark staring Harry, too. Basically, I'm easy. :D
Weeheee, `The Lullaby of Nifflish Erumpents' <3<3 Ohhh, laughing!Remus <3
And that's where I am-- it's been fun, but I really feel there's nothing left for me to learn about H/D from other people, for now. Which is kind of sad, actually.
I only realized this when I was thinking how H/D the way I want to envision it (whether or not it contradicts canon is another matter) is not a pairing of non-equals. Whatever it takes-- whatever I have to have Draco do-- I want to do it. I can't stand romance between a person who looks down on another and the person who needs the former one's attention. This might be 'as is' in canon, but the reason I write fic in the first place is to supplement canon, isn't it. Actually, that set-up, that imbalance, makes me ill. Equality is my priority, and it's not about turning Draco into someone suave and debonair-- it's about making him 'on the level' in some way I myself consider in character. While I do believe in canon, Harry needs to see Draco as worthy of some sort of consideration/respect 'as is', I don't consider this basic acknowledgement of worth as a human to be enough for romance. And in this, I'm not claiming authority-- I'm only saying it's not enough for me, and as such it's not open to debate, anyway. And that's what this is all about-- the realization that I need to start focusing on my own vision in my writing, and stop dallying about writing on automatic, the way it's easiest.
So it is my vision that for romance, Harry would need to admire Draco in some way. In any way. He'd need to-- well-- be able to put him on some sort of pedestal. That's how romantic love works. It's not about Draco being 'cool'-- it's just about him being a strong, active (vs. reactive) presence. A challenge. A cipher to be unravelled. An equal emotional counterpoint.
It's not about imbalance of feeling-- because feelings can't be equal, and because both people feel overwhelmed and weak when they're in love. This is different. This is about power, and if I can't manage to give Draco different-but-equal power to Harry, then H/D is over for me, and my writing is, in the end, about me (muwahahah! feel my POWER!). However-- in the future, when I feel like it-- I can write fic that rectifies this, because, well, in fic there are infinite possibilities.
But no more top/bottom(!!!) because I don't care who bottoms as long as it doesn't define them; no more laughably-obsessed!Draco, sensible!Draco -or- mad!Draco, no more uber-sexy!Draco, perfect-Slytherin!Draco, secret-Hufflepuff!Draco, though perhaps more His Father's Son!Draco and Snape's Favorite!Draco, 'cause I haven't played with them much; no more smug!Harry (or Draco-- god, the smugness needs to die for now); no more paying attention to any dynamic that didn't come from my own head and what I personally see in canon, basically. No more over-compensation, no more wit meant to cover up a lack of stable foundation, no more lust as the basis of the relationship, no more Draco needing while Harry rejects forever-and-ever-amen. There has to be a change, because that is not the pairing I loved.
Ahhh, it feels good to purge.
...It just seems like fandom's just about a) squeeing-- which gets old after you've first expressed yourself; b) arguing, which gets even older after you've seen everyone and their brother rehash the same arguments 984798347 times; and c) nitpicking, which drives me insane. Maybe it's just HP that's so sharply divided between mindless adulation and utter bitching, and the fandoms which center around older audiences are different, though I can't really be bothered in any case. Mind you, I'd take adulation over the bitching, 'cause at least -that- feels -good-, and I still don't get why one would be in a fandom to feel bad. Maybe it's just me, though.
~~
You know, all this time in fandom, and I'm still not used to the term 'angst-whore'. I mean, I can understand enjoying well-done tear-jerkers or tragedies or what have you or thinking that they're more 'deep' or 'meaningful' than good comedies (offensive as I find that pov)-- but to be specifically geared to only enjoy fic of that nature just strikes me as disturbing. Imagine if nothing made you really happy to imagine except misery! If nothing else, after a certain point, constancy in everything turns dull, even sadness-- as most depressed people know. Oh well. People who favor seriousness all (or most of) the time scare me, but let's move on.
So... thanks to
shaggirl, I was thinking about gay porn... (I love that sentence, btw). In particular, I was thinking about the difference between male-oriented homoerotica/porn and (female-oriented) slash. And it seems to me that the difference is between the former's focus on the audience and the latter's focus on the participants.
It seems like in most 'men's' porn, it doesn't matter whether the couple involved really enjoys themselves (this isn't getting into non-con, but I guess you could apply 'enjoyment' to 'scene' non-con too, actually). The focus in most porn/erotica I've seen seems to be on getting the viewer off, rather than the two people playing the parts. This occurred to me in regard to orgasms, mainly-- the orgasms seem to be 'for show' more than anything-- the people can't come when they want to or in any sort of spontaneous way. There has to be a 'come-shot', it seems like, and this is clearly for the benefit of the audience more than anything.
I was also thinking this, wondering why more porn 'actors' don't get it on with people they actually want-- like, why couldn't that be the basis of who does what with whom? Seems simple, doesn't it? I mean, what's the point of supposedly consensual sex (which I consider a Good Thing in nearly all instances as a point of basic philosophy) if one's having it with a person one doesn't lust after? I was even having visions of revolutionizing the whole industry with this idea of fuck who you want, heh. Surely there's a large enough variety of people to always have attractive and willing participants who're also hot for each other. You'd think.
And then I realized that's not the point: because the presumed male viewer basically doesn't care, and the 'bottom line' is the audience. The male viewer doesn't think about the real emotions or desires of those people-- from what I can tell, men (gay or straight) use porn as fantasy-fodder, which means these aren't 'real people' to them, and the male relationship with (sexual) fantasy is apparently intrinsically less emotionally focused and more mechanical/visual. And the visual signifiers of emotion/lust probably don't matter, in that case, so they need not be shown.
Naturally, slash-- and female-written commercial romance/smut novels-- would have the exact opposite dynamic. Here, the audience is present but recedes into the background because what everyone's focused on is the players and how they feel. Especially with a female-centered perspective on two men together, it's going to have to be at least partly about a process of identification rather than objectification; the male viewer, otoh, seems to be predominantly concerned with action vs. reaction. Not that both don't occur in some measure no matter what; it's just a question of balances. It's difficult to fully compare, of course, because part of it is the inherent differences between the storytelling medium-- and its focus on emotion-- and minimalism of expression being so much easier to achieve in any visual medium. Eh. Maybe this explains why I (with my uber-emotionally-centered sensibilities) am apparently given to only writing slash for book-based fandoms.
~~
Apologiesaccepted.com actually made me tear up a little o_0 Well, happily :> I really feel like the net makes the world a village at the moment. Awwww, I kinda ♥ the world right now. <3<3 Apparently there are a lot of cool people in Holland & the Netherlands. Who knew? :> (...Someone stop me from busting out with John Lennon... okay, too late.)
Ahhhh, and such cute H/D art, awwww. I wuv confused!Harry and evilly-smirking!Draco <3<3<3 Oh, evil!Draco. *lovestruck sigh* Though I really like dark staring Harry, too. Basically, I'm easy. :D
Weeheee, `The Lullaby of Nifflish Erumpents' <3<3 Ohhh, laughing!Remus <3
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2004-11-23 08:12 am (UTC)So yeah, not much of a comedy fan, although I do love "the world sucks" sorts of comedy; it's the only kind of comedy I really respond to, in fact. The sort that holds a mirror of up to the world and shows us, simultaneously, how much this is TRUE and how much it's ABSURD.
Ahem, anyway. I don't really see the happiness thing as implicit in "whore?" And I don't think enjoying something implies it makes you happy. I mean, I enjoy reading my psychology textbook, but I don't come away from it happier. The happiness thing is really tripping me up, because the angst thing... I love it so so much, and it's really all I love in fic (I don't even read fluff or comedies or... even non-fluff, non-comedy stuff that doesn't end badly) and yet I wouldn't say it makes me happy.
I think, when you say you like to feel, and think, that's really what the angst people are looking for. Particularly feeling. Not sure this makes sense since I'm writing it in a hurry before running out to buy POA! haha!
*runs off*
no subject
Date: 2004-11-23 03:35 pm (UTC)I think I was getting mixed up 'cause I associate any kind of pleasure (or 'enjoyment') with er... happiness, though not of a bubbly-pink kind but more of a satisfaction kind. I think it's 'cause I'm a shameless hedonist and I actually do enjoy well-done angst on a visceral level of 'mmmm, yeah'. Alright, so now I'm the freak >:D
no subject
Date: 2004-11-23 04:01 pm (UTC)But then I take everything seriously! (which isn't true, but it's closer to true than saying I don't. ;))
no subject
Date: 2004-11-23 04:55 pm (UTC)`Folk of the Air' made me sick with amusement, but it's actually quite a serious story. It's like... you can take things seriously and laugh at them, too. Maybe it takes a certain sort of madness, though :>
no subject
Date: 2004-11-23 05:03 pm (UTC)Which brings me to taking something seriously and laughing at them, too, because really that's the humor that speaks to me. God knows I take politics seriously - hell, I haven't said I'm not leaving the country, have I? But sometimes, I think there are some things which, if you take them seriously, you need to laugh at them, as well, or you're likely to go mad.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-23 05:11 pm (UTC)This brings me to the fact that I'm probably a 'delicate' sort~:)) Well, comparatively. Coming to fandom, I realized there are such delicate flowers that can't read anything but happily-ever-after fluffy kitten slash. That would drive me insane much quicker :>
no subject
Date: 2004-11-23 05:18 pm (UTC)Like I can't get sick of only reading angst, because reading only angst means reading one angsty story a month, or something in that area.
So yeah, I have no idea if you're comparatively delicate, at least comparative to me, since I don't read enough to see if it'd get old for me eventually. ;)