~~ gay smut or slash... or an unholy union?

[reenka]

I guess it just hit me that it's not H/D I've gotten tired of as much as any other people's ideas of it. It's so hard to think outside the box-- or at least, to have thoughts that are truly your own-- if you're always in touch with everyone else's thoughts on the subject. At some stages, of course it's helpful and educational-- expands one's worldview-- but eventually the learning is over and done with, and there's truly nothing more to be done except to develop one's own mind on a subject.

And that's where I am-- it's been fun, but I really feel there's nothing left for me to learn about H/D from other people, for now. Which is kind of sad, actually.


    I only realized this when I was thinking how H/D the way I want to envision it (whether or not it contradicts canon is another matter) is not a pairing of non-equals. Whatever it takes-- whatever I have to have Draco do-- I want to do it. I can't stand romance between a person who looks down on another and the person who needs the former one's attention. This might be 'as is' in canon, but the reason I write fic in the first place is to supplement canon, isn't it. Actually, that set-up, that imbalance, makes me ill. Equality is my priority, and it's not about turning Draco into someone suave and debonair-- it's about making him 'on the level' in some way I myself consider in character. While I do believe in canon, Harry needs to see Draco as worthy of some sort of consideration/respect 'as is', I don't consider this basic acknowledgement of worth as a human to be enough for romance. And in this, I'm not claiming authority-- I'm only saying it's not enough for me, and as such it's not open to debate, anyway. And that's what this is all about-- the realization that I need to start focusing on my own vision in my writing, and stop dallying about writing on automatic, the way it's easiest.

So it is my vision that for romance, Harry would need to admire Draco in some way. In any way. He'd need to-- well-- be able to put him on some sort of pedestal. That's how romantic love works. It's not about Draco being 'cool'-- it's just about him being a strong, active (vs. reactive) presence. A challenge. A cipher to be unravelled. An equal emotional counterpoint.

    It's not about imbalance of feeling-- because feelings can't be equal, and because both people feel overwhelmed and weak when they're in love. This is different. This is about power, and if I can't manage to give Draco different-but-equal power to Harry, then H/D is over for me, and my writing is, in the end, about me (muwahahah! feel my POWER!). However-- in the future, when I feel like it-- I can write fic that rectifies this, because, well, in fic there are infinite possibilities.

But no more top/bottom(!!!) because I don't care who bottoms as long as it doesn't define them; no more laughably-obsessed!Draco, sensible!Draco -or- mad!Draco, no more uber-sexy!Draco, perfect-Slytherin!Draco, secret-Hufflepuff!Draco, though perhaps more His Father's Son!Draco and Snape's Favorite!Draco, 'cause I haven't played with them much; no more smug!Harry (or Draco-- god, the smugness needs to die for now); no more paying attention to any dynamic that didn't come from my own head and what I personally see in canon, basically. No more over-compensation, no more wit meant to cover up a lack of stable foundation, no more lust as the basis of the relationship, no more Draco needing while Harry rejects forever-and-ever-amen. There has to be a change, because that is not the pairing I loved.

Ahhh, it feels good to purge.

...It just seems like fandom's just about a) squeeing-- which gets old after you've first expressed yourself; b) arguing, which gets even older after you've seen everyone and their brother rehash the same arguments 984798347 times; and c) nitpicking, which drives me insane. Maybe it's just HP that's so sharply divided between mindless adulation and utter bitching, and the fandoms which center around older audiences are different, though I can't really be bothered in any case. Mind you, I'd take adulation over the bitching, 'cause at least -that- feels -good-, and I still don't get why one would be in a fandom to feel bad. Maybe it's just me, though.
~~

You know, all this time in fandom, and I'm still not used to the term 'angst-whore'. I mean, I can understand enjoying well-done tear-jerkers or tragedies or what have you or thinking that they're more 'deep' or 'meaningful' than good comedies (offensive as I find that pov)-- but to be specifically geared to only enjoy fic of that nature just strikes me as disturbing. Imagine if nothing made you really happy to imagine except misery! If nothing else, after a certain point, constancy in everything turns dull, even sadness-- as most depressed people know. Oh well. People who favor seriousness all (or most of) the time scare me, but let's move on.

So... thanks to shaggirl, I was thinking about gay porn... (I love that sentence, btw).

In particular, I was thinking about the difference between male-oriented homoerotica/porn and (female-oriented) slash. And it seems to me that the difference is between the former's focus on the audience and the latter's focus on the participants.


It seems like in most 'men's' porn, it doesn't matter whether the couple involved really enjoys themselves (this isn't getting into non-con, but I guess you could apply 'enjoyment' to 'scene' non-con too, actually). The focus in most porn/erotica I've seen seems to be on getting the viewer off, rather than the two people playing the parts. This occurred to me in regard to orgasms, mainly-- the orgasms seem to be 'for show' more than anything-- the people can't come when they want to or in any sort of spontaneous way. There has to be a 'come-shot', it seems like, and this is clearly for the benefit of the audience more than anything.

I was also thinking this, wondering why more porn 'actors' don't get it on with people they actually want-- like, why couldn't that be the basis of who does what with whom? Seems simple, doesn't it? I mean, what's the point of supposedly consensual sex (which I consider a Good Thing in nearly all instances as a point of basic philosophy) if one's having it with a person one doesn't lust after? I was even having visions of revolutionizing the whole industry with this idea of fuck who you want, heh. Surely there's a large enough variety of people to always have attractive and willing participants who're also hot for each other. You'd think.

And then I realized that's not the point: because the presumed male viewer basically doesn't care, and the 'bottom line' is the audience. The male viewer doesn't think about the real emotions or desires of those people-- from what I can tell, men (gay or straight) use porn as fantasy-fodder, which means these aren't 'real people' to them, and the male relationship with (sexual) fantasy is apparently intrinsically less emotionally focused and more mechanical/visual. And the visual signifiers of emotion/lust probably don't matter, in that case, so they need not be shown.

Naturally, slash-- and female-written commercial romance/smut novels-- would have the exact opposite dynamic. Here, the audience is present but recedes into the background because what everyone's focused on is the players and how they feel. Especially with a female-centered perspective on two men together, it's going to have to be at least partly about a process of identification rather than objectification; the male viewer, otoh, seems to be predominantly concerned with action vs. reaction. Not that both don't occur in some measure no matter what; it's just a question of balances. It's difficult to fully compare, of course, because part of it is the inherent differences between the storytelling medium-- and its focus on emotion-- and minimalism of expression being so much easier to achieve in any visual medium. Eh. Maybe this explains why I (with my uber-emotionally-centered sensibilities) am apparently given to only writing slash for book-based fandoms.
~~

Apologiesaccepted.com actually made me tear up a little o_0 Well, happily :> I really feel like the net makes the world a village at the moment. Awwww, I kinda ♥ the world right now. <3<3 Apparently there are a lot of cool people in Holland & the Netherlands. Who knew? :> (...Someone stop me from busting out with John Lennon... okay, too late.)

Ahhhh, and such cute H/D art, awwww. I wuv confused!Harry and evilly-smirking!Draco <3<3<3 Oh, evil!Draco. *lovestruck sigh* Though I really like dark staring Harry, too. Basically, I'm easy. :D
    Weeheee, `The Lullaby of Nifflish Erumpents' <3<3 Ohhh, laughing!Remus <3

Comments

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

You cover many topics in a single post!

I am such an angst!whore. Yes I am. I have no interest in comedies or fluff, it's true. Hell, I have no interest in around 95% of things that don't tear my heart out. I'm not sure I could explain it, but I admit to being relentlessly serious, as well. I will say, however:

1) I don't doubt comedy can be just as "deep," but I haven't seen it done much, myself. Of course, I don't like comedies so I don't see/read many of them anyway.

2) You know, it's not that nothing makes me happy to imagine except for misery, actually? Because I don't read fic/watch movies/whatever to be made happy. I watch them/read them to explore characters, and explore the world, and I think the world sucks, therefore I'm attracted to fiction that portrays the world as sucking. I think part of my love of well-done tragedy is that it makes beauty out of (my perception of) reality, rather than getting into escapism (which I don't like.)

Anyway the point is, I think perhaps one reason you don't understand the angst-whore mindset is because you (seem to, correct me if I am wrong) approach fic as something that should make you happy, whereas angst-whores are presumably into it for different reasons entirely. Anyway, that's just my experience, blah blah.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

I am feeling like the guilt for the original sin or something.

I am sorry I (or my various internet incarnations) have been pushy; I didn't mean to. I just want to talk my own vision through, compare and discuss, you know, explain the reasons and aims and... of course I think you should play with your own toy, that was my point all the time. You don't need to cater to fandom or fandom trends. The point of writing is doing and illustrating your own thing. :) Like, I disagree with basically everything you said about disequality, but it's not like you should listen to me if you don't feel I add anything to your dialogue with the characters. But I agree with this:

I don't consider this basic acknowledgement of worth as a human to be enough for romance.

See, common ground! Mwahahaha. Though I feel we're coming to this from two different points... Oh, and. Incidentally, I just bought gay porn in Rome and all the time I was half hot half snorting through my nose. Like, this guy who kept talking about getting screwed again by the tarzan furry officer who called him a faggot, and I was like, who wants to get screwed by a tarzan furry officer who calls him a faggot, and then I realised... Draco probably would, ahahah. Boys.

Uhm, so you want to keep playing the kissy stuff from yesterday or is it too pushy? :)

[kayen.livejournal.com]

>> I can't stand romance between a person who looks down on another and the person who needs the former one's attention. <<
Yeah. There's far too much of that in this fandom (and far too much of one character being cast as 'the (stereotypical) woman' and bottom![insertname]). In fact, my first H/D fic, The Fine Line, was largely a reaction against the too common inequality of the H/D pairing. (Whether that came through or not is another matter.)
In it, Draco starts out 'in control', then turns classic 'fanfic needy' only to assert himself again at the end. However, the story is also a reaction against the many fics that have H&D Fall In Love too quickly. I actually do believe that, especially post-OotP, lust is one of the more believable foundations for this pairing, even though love may develop eventually. Plausibility is simply one of my biggest pet peeves in fanfic.
But we all have different views of what is plausible. :)

As for Draco, I think too much fanfic changes him beyond recognition. To me, Draco will always be nasty (politically incorrect) and self-absorbed. He doesn't have to change for Harry to fall for him. In fact, Harry can be quite nasty and self-absorbed himself. He's already flirting with the Dark Side. ;)

>> still not used to the term 'angst-whore' <<
On the whole, I think many readers are much more picky when it comes to fanfic than profic in terms of what they read, genre/content-wise. Some read only angst, some only humour, some only fluff, some only etc etc. This probably also means that it's a bad idea to mix serious drama and humour in fics, as I tend to, if you want to appeal to 'the fan masses', because this fandom is so ... splintered into subfandoms and whatnots.
Geh. I'm not making sense, am I?

>> mindless adulation and utter bitching <<
This fandom will never graduate high school, will it? ;)

I think you're definitely on to something re: male porn vs. slash.

You always post such interesting little essays! I'm glad I friended you. :D

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Y'know, in terms of interacting & talking with you, I'd never have called you relentlessly serious~:) I mean, you might not be -quite- as silly as I am, but then, most people aren't~:)) I mean, at first I'd thought that someone with a brain the size of yours would like... uh... be more uptight, but you're not :> Although I also think of myself as more serious than I usually come off, methinks. It's like... how we interact vs. how we react, perhaps.

I love deep comedy. It's hard(er) to do, and thusly rare, but when it's well-done, I worship it. In fantasy, Neil Gaiman & Peter Beagle do it, off the top of my head. Humm even Albert Einstein was pretty funny. All my favorite people/writers are funny to me, even if only to me, so perhaps I'm biased. :> But I think humor is one of the main indicators of intelligence... but perhaps that is merely the sort of intelligence I respond best to. And therein lies another essay.

I think the 'to be made happy' thing seems implicit in 'whore' (that is... uh... someone who craves or lusts after or is basically addicted-- isn't that 'made happy'?) I think you can definitely also have comedy about the world sucking, but it's hard. In fact, some of the best comedy is about the world sucking-- like, do you watch much stand-up-- or the Daily Show? They just stand there and detail how much EVERYTHING SUCKS and people laugh. It's funny, y'know. WE ARE DOOMED (*cue laugh track*)

I was approaching it as an escapist thing because a lot of self-professed angst-whores go on about how much they LOVE it, which implies enjoyment/happiness. I myself have every reason under the sun for loving fic-- I mean... I'm a reader through and through, and I love all sorts of fic except horror because there is so very little of the good variety. Well-done fic makes me happy. I like to laugh and to cry. I like to enjoy myself while reading, and learn something, and think, and feel. I don't need to be happy, I just need to be surprised, perhaps.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's your fault, though-- I've just been losing all perspective because my inner Harry always reacts to your Draco in a certain way. Like, when you said that about calling Draco a faggot-- I totally don't dig that in theory, y'know, but Harry does. It's... hard to compartmentalize for me, basically. It's just that... it's accumulated from years of reading fic, but RPing has just pushed me over the edge into wholesale rejection of every foreign substance or meme.

Perhaps it's just that you project yourself because that's just who you are and I'm overly receptive once I start paying attention; so any issue I have gets magnified a hundredfold. But this is helpful, because it's forcing me to actually think, and define my terms and stop sailing along like I have been. In the name of contrast, it's forcing me to define what -I- want, y'know? And it's just... while it's helpful to compare and contrast... the meta is just choking me at this point. And our H/D has always been so very meta, and that's starting to stifle my creativity for some reason. It's like... the way the meta is intertwined with the creative process... in a way it hadn't been before... just bothers me more than anything else, because this means I can't separate fandom from my own imagination anymore, which just sucks. But it's a chain reaction that's not your doing, see.

I never said that non-equality was -bad- or whatever-- I just said I don't find it romantic. I feel oppressed by it-- which is actually funny, all things considered. Like, I consider Relena oppressive. Like, it's also funny because you're drawn to partnerships too, you just come at them from a different angle-- or you like different kinds of partnerships, I'm not sure. I like partnerships of opposing forces, but in a personality-driven way, because personality is all that matters to me in terms of romance. And to have anything else matter just messes with my head 'cause I can't... wrap my head around it, y'know? I can't think about groups or take them into consideration without wanting to scream, a lot of times.

I dislike the dynamic of our Harry and Draco, but that doesn't mean my Harry does-- sort of the way you disapprove of Draco wanting to be called faggot or whatever. I don't think it's at all harmful to RP except for how meta it is and how many other issues get dragged in, though. Like, the reason my Harry loves Draco is completely meta (or like, in my head) because he never -fell- in love, so the foundation is very shaky. The whole relationship is built on thin air, which is a huge issue. I don't know if they -could- fall in love without the meta backing them up.

The kissy stuff doesn't bother me, but I'm about to go to bed :>

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

It's not that I don't think lust is a plausible foundation... it's that I'm So Very Tired of it as the be-all and end-all, of clinging to it like it's a life-preserver or something. I've always been kind of leery of over-dependence on any particular source, but post-OoTP, lust just became... overpowering, and I think I'm being reactionary :>

I haven't associated the 'attention-needy' thing as being typically female, but I guess you're right, wow! Omg, now I'm all "!!!" and I realize why I'm pissed at it, because I like strong non-needy females, so... I mean... I like obsessed!Draco, it's just that I want him to be -active-, not reactive. It's not so much about Draco changing his personality as his course of action and attitude to some extent.

I love mixed up humor and drama <3<3<3<3 It's my favorite genre :D :D If it is a genre! Mixing of genres is my personal little kink in reading >:D I like to be kept guessing, kept on my toes, kept surprised :D Ahhh, and humor is everywhere anyway. You're totally making sense~:)

Heheheh I'm glad you're one of the talky ones (y'know... not one of the ...uh... mostly-silent majority. Who just... er... watch. I try not to think about it.) :D

[malafede.livejournal.com]

Perhaps it's just that you project yourself because that's just who you are and I'm overly receptive once I start paying attention

I didn't understand this (not the projecting myself part, ahaha, that's so blatant, but the receptiveness and how it interfers) until I read this:

I dislike the dynamic of our Harry and Draco, but that doesn't mean my Harry does

because that's exactly what's so meta with it, to me, because I want you to like it, not for it to just work, just like Draco wants to be liked and not just wanted. :/ Those are my issues, though, but I understand that you would react. The meta thing... it doesn't stifle my creativity maybe because I am good at compartimentalising; maybe it's just that for me thought and emotion, my plane and Draco's plane (in me) are so sharply divided that I see things clearly. Also, I like sst and how he plays
out so that probably helps.

I think you should try to finish your things. You should try to write the Crucible and write it how you feel it. <3 THEN we could play the 1996, because it's so not true that they wouldn't.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

The meta stuff to me is basically all the ways your Draco reacts against things that -you- are having issues with or which start with something fandom-related. If anything, because there's no fair way Harry can respond to it. In a way, it's fun and postmodern, but in another way, it only brings angst for Harry, usually.

I've never really separated thought & emotion; that's why I've never called myself logical, rational or level-headed and am surprised when people think I am. I either ignore things or get swallowed up by them-- it's very hard for me to find a middle ground. Incidentally, it's also why I need humor in everything, and besides everything else writing a relationship devoid of humor just drains me utterly.

Also, on top of everything else, it's hard to like it because Harry is such a bastard, honestly, and it's not how I want things to work, I guess. It's so -easy- to play him like that, but in a way, it's messing everything up, too, and drowning them (and me) in angst, which just exhausts me on top of it all. I liked it at first because it was fun, but the darker my Harry got and the more violently needy and clingy and desperately trapped Draco got, the more I got twitchy. It's like how I felt reading Olympia's fic & Ishuca's, too-- she had this very strong H/D relationship, but I wanted them to -stop- because it wasn't good for either of them.

It does 'just work', though-- that's why we started playing, isn't it? Because it just seemed to 'fit' and we did it naturally? It just happened, so it's not as if my approval was really a factor to me, I guess? I think it's just that a lot of issues are getting mixed into it that aren't intrinsic to it, anyway, so it's hard to even -tell- if I like it at this point.

I don't know about finishing them -now-. A break, I say. A break. But yes, I plan to~:)

we're still funny, though

[malafede.livejournal.com]

I am not really sure about continuing this discussion because I am thinking it drives you mad and it's so unnecessary, really. :) So the premise to anything I say would be that it's not necessary that you adjust to it or take it as a source for H/D. I just want to explain my own reaction to things (I re-act a lot, one would say I play Draco Malfoy on the internet. ;D)

I liked it at first because it was fun, but the darker my Harry got and the more violently needy and clingy and desperately trapped Draco got, the more I got twitchy.

Draco reacts to that the way he does because he's cornered and probably not strong enough to give Harry an aut-aut. Draco is the moth, and he wants his flame, but the flame is playing with him attracting him and then burning him and all the fun they were having dancing is overwhelmed by the pain of the burn; they can't feel it any longer, all they feel is the burn. I'm not blaming this on Harry. I am actually seeing how the distructiveness is too symbiotic, it wouldn't work that way with other too people. Draco is the one who gives Harry all that leeway. He lets Harry go wild. He's not strong enough to go away and not strong enough to make him see that what he's doing is wrong. So maybe that's what bothers you, that Draco can't do enough? It's not just the literary terms of romance that are askew, it's the humanity that's too dysfunctional.

So of course have your break. Draco's just gonna need his occasional bouts of sap anyway, if that's too much, even, just tell me. BUT, what I am saying is that if we restart playing, we should think of ourselves as writers too, and not just actors. It's not going anywhere because we just accepted the reality "as is" and projected the meta (okay maybe that's just me) on the actors rather that having it play its role where it should have, in the writers.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

Oh, and since I am doing this soul-searching confession type thingie, this: I've never really separated thought & emotion; that's why I've never called myself logical, rational or level-headed and am surprised when people think I am. I either ignore things or get swallowed up by them or rather me being the opposite of this comes from being a control freak, which is just the opposite pathology. Then again I was the sober destructive follower. ;) It comes handy in some situations, like this one, less in others, and its origins aren't sane, though.

Also, I think we're different in which all Draco wants is to be loved and have that kind of simple relationship and that comes from me being perfectly happy with feeling the love, and to hell with all the issues, whereas you, probably more honestly and responsibly, can't and so Harry can't take this for granted or feeling it's enough.

[darklites.livejournal.com]

no more laughably-obsessed!Draco, sensible!Draco -or- mad!Draco, no more uber-sexy!Draco, perfect-Slytherin!Draco, secret-Hufflepuff!Draco,

Oh man, the weight of your fandom burnout is so heavy that my brain hurts just reading about it. And I guess it's inevitable because fandom is so - excessive, you know? IN EVERYTHING. Like, when something comes out, it's not enough to be excited about it and talk about it. No! It must be squeed over in 55 LJs with excessive punctuation, dissected to death in 17. And then a backlash-esque 'meh, my fandom ennui has overtaken my excitement' reaction will happen in 10 more LJs, and then 7 more LJs will bitch about the backlash. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, PEOPLE!! Or like, the use of "!!1" as a punctuation mark for when a simple exclamation mark doesn't suffice. That amused me, but what did not amuse me was the follow up of the "!!!11!1", and then the "!!!!!eleventyoneomfgbbq!!!11". I mean, dude, I get the idea, all right, do you need to overkill it? Meh. Maybe fandom is like, Vegas Casinos or something. It's really fun in moderation, but living there would do anyone's head in. ;)

So in the interest of feeling the love instead (maybe we just need to stop reasoning so much and feel the love a little more?), something ridiculously silly - the other day I realised that Harry and Draco have the same amount of letters in their first and last names:

H A R R Y | P O T T E R
D R A C O | M A L F O Y

H/D: theirloveissosymmetrical. That made me kind of girlishly happy. Hee. That kind of stuff is a soothing balm for the soul, for me. Haha, that's so dumb. I'm an idiot, I realise, but I kind of enjoy it so I don't mind. :D I think fandom brings out my dorkily silly side - but that's probably one of the things I enjoy most about it. :D :D

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Well, the thing is, I make a conscious effort not to be relentlessly serious online, because it can be a bit offputting? But it's true that I'm not particularly uptight, although my natural sense of humor leans more toward sarcasm than silliness. And I do think humor is one of the indicators of intelligence, although on the other hand I never thought Neil Gaiman was funny. ;)

So yeah, not much of a comedy fan, although I do love "the world sucks" sorts of comedy; it's the only kind of comedy I really respond to, in fact. The sort that holds a mirror of up to the world and shows us, simultaneously, how much this is TRUE and how much it's ABSURD.

Ahem, anyway. I don't really see the happiness thing as implicit in "whore?" And I don't think enjoying something implies it makes you happy. I mean, I enjoy reading my psychology textbook, but I don't come away from it happier. The happiness thing is really tripping me up, because the angst thing... I love it so so much, and it's really all I love in fic (I don't even read fluff or comedies or... even non-fluff, non-comedy stuff that doesn't end badly) and yet I wouldn't say it makes me happy.

I think, when you say you like to feel, and think, that's really what the angst people are looking for. Particularly feeling. Not sure this makes sense since I'm writing it in a hurry before running out to buy POA! haha!

*runs off*

[aiglet.livejournal.com]

I'm actually fond of foil!Draco -- Harry is so driven by his emotions, and no one's ever told him that there's any value in being able to conceal them. I'm fond of the whole "Harry and Draco go do something that Harry has to do because he's famous but Draco does better" bit, where H winds up respecting D because he's really actually good at some things. (Of course, that's really just because I like to see Harry wind up as James Bond....)

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

You know, I was thinking last night about H/D and the sort of thing you were talking about with malafede, sort of (and btw, this is why women are so great--listen to you guys having a reasonable conversation about your feelings about...the porn you play!).

I mean, after GoF it seemed like is when a certain version of Fanon!Draco really took over--the suave, witty one. The one that as sort of like the kind of thing I talked about in that last post once I figured out what I really meant. The Draco who laughs at everything Harry finds most serious and makes it ridiculous. That's how a lot of H/D worked. Draco would just be so sophisticated and light that Harry would have these little exasperated blow-ups but then he'd just have to think through where Draco actually had a point. And yes, there would maybe also be moments where you saw that as much as Draco laughed at it he actually *adored* Harry's seriousness because it was real and it was Harry and Draco needed that himself. So all was happy and they suited each other very well.

Then OotP came, and it seems like since then we've had to deal with almost the negative version of Fanon!Draco more often. One that always existed but now seemed more dominant. The Draco that was always angry and always powerless and always a loser, and who repulsed and disgusted Harry and whose only power was in not going away and unfortunately egging Harry on in his violence and anger. He was a punching bag that was also an addiction, sort of. Maybe ultimately he's almost like a strange portrait of Dorian Gray type thing, meaning that Harry lets out all this violence and destruction on him and Draco walks around with the bruises and looking beaten while Harry remains a golden boy. That's canon too, really, and meta, the way that all of Harry's ugliness can unfortunately be blamed on other characters. They always deserve what he gives them, or he can't help it etc.

But in a way it's sort of a conversation in fandom too. Like fractals, I feel like whatever is going on on the individual level with H/D fans is probably going on on a bigger level in H/D as a ship. And so now it's like we're getting Harry's answer to suave!Draco. No, he's not just sort of fumbly and his anger isn't funny. He's like rejecting this easy answer people gave to him. Only that makes for a more difficult ship because if he rejects that answer, what is the answer?

Maybe that's why often ships get more popular when they're easier. H/S, obviously, got a boost from OotP and one of the biggest boosts was Harry for a moment saying, "I feel sorry for Snape, here! My father was a jerk!" That becomes like this easy solution--that's the way to solve the slash. Sure Harry hated Snape again a moment later, but this is the answer! Much like in GoF, perhaps, the answer to the slash was Harry angrily taking out his wand and Draco slowly taking out his, and their both casting curses that ricocheted off each other and hit other people. That was the answer, even if the book ended with Draco being hexed unconscious.

I don't know where I'm going with this. It's more meta, but it's me so that should be expected.:-)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Their love -is- so symmetrical! In every way!! :D They're like the same size dolls and everything! >:D! (...And I'm not just saying that 'cause I have my Harry & Draco dueling action figures in front of me, toppled on-- er, top of each other.)

Yeah man, when I burn-out, I'm like a gas giant gone wonky :D Hahahah (*has a rather high opinion of herself*) I want to feel the love a little more, but squeeing isn't love, and there's not a lot of actual love in fandom (...who'd've thunk it?)
...and y'know, I still don't know what 'bbq' means >:D

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I like Draco as a foil (that is, different yet complementary), it's just that I also want him to be equally strong, which he could be as a foil & I don't think I contradicted...? I just want some r-e-s-p-e-c-t for Draco, y'know. Um. This is mostly a reaction against fandom trends rather than... the pure meta of What H/D Is All About, though :>

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I just like humor mixed in everywhere, 'cause like, -nothing- is entirely serious to me, but this doesn't mean I can't take things seriously, y'know.... It's more of an irreverent attitude thing rather than a ha-ha-funny thing. Um. :>

I think I was getting mixed up 'cause I associate any kind of pleasure (or 'enjoyment') with er... happiness, though not of a bubbly-pink kind but more of a satisfaction kind. I think it's 'cause I'm a shameless hedonist and I actually do enjoy well-done angst on a visceral level of 'mmmm, yeah'. Alright, so now I'm the freak >:D

Re: we're still funny, though

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I guess we are. Or well, we used to be, definitely >:D

I think ideally, I want Draco to be a check to Harry-- to somehow be able to... like, influence his actions. That's why I was going on about equality-- that's the sort of equality I want. Harry's not responsible enough or 'good' or strong enough to be some sort of force of Ordered Good, especially a Harry who allows himself to mess with Draco, and Draco very clearly doesn't want chaos in their relationship.

It's like, penelope_z really put a finger on it-- to me, post-OoTP, Draco has to use his rage and really do something Harry would notice. I don't mean schoolwork or anything about their romantic relationship-- I mean something that's working against Harry, because honestly, that's the healthy thing. He's mad at Harry. He should do something about that. Harry would respect him. Maybe. But anyway, that's what I want to have happen as a writer.It's not that Draco can't need him (and Harry needs, too)-- it's just a question of pushing each other forward instead of just pulling apart and slamming back together in the typical on-again off-again fashion.

It's not that Harry doesn't feel love is enough-- in fact, Harry responds best to love-- but that Draco needs love more than he gives it.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I love that about suave!Draco needing Harry's seriousness even as he makes fun of it-- I've really noticed that too. It never occurred to me to write them like that (...mostly 'cause a light-hearted Draco went against my vision of him as obsessed psycho-boy which I so adored to start with). A lot of the most romantic fics were like that though, weren't they-- it was a bit like Sirius/Remus in that way where one was the serious one and the other was the mischievous one-- except I'd be hard-pressed, really, but in canon I'd have to say Harry's far and away more mischievous, it's just that he doesn't laugh at -himself-... it's a different kind of humor.

But yeah, post-OoTP, no one really ran with it in any sort of healthy direction (which I would claim remained possible), because it would've taken too much -work-; so people just glorified the sheer codependent (or symbiotic!) relationship where Harry became the abuser. And man, do I hate abuser!Harry even though I like them fighting. I just like Draco to fight back.

I feel like they -both- could get more serious. Like, yeah I know Draco's always been the one who ridiculed and didn't actually get his hands dirty-- but Harry's grown beyond that. Draco needs to grow beyond that too, and it's not a question of him changing personalities so much as rising up a notch in intensity. And well, the reason I loved OoTP is partly because my Draco was always rather intense anyway. I know the reasonable thing is to say 'it's up to Harry', but it's not, 'cause if it's just up to Harry, nothing's ever gonna happen, I can tell that much.

So it's not so much that it's hard, maybe, as that no one likes or wants the Draco I want-- y'know, the one who's not fooling around anymore. People just make him a Death Eater as a short-cut sometimes, but that's not it, it seems like. He just needs to go on the warpath >:D

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

BBQ! Barbeque! LMAO

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

...yes, but....
that doesn't make any SENSE -.-

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

HAHAH It isn't supposed to.

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

Yeeeah I'm not allergic to humor as long as it's used well, and uh, isn't the main element of a story. I just don't like humor stories, I fear. Even in published fiction, I... eh, there's a reason I can't seem to get through Good Omens.

But then I take everything seriously! (which isn't true, but it's closer to true than saying I don't. ;))

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

What would be really logical would be if exactly that happened. I mean, at the end of OotP Draco is deadly serious and angry when he faces Harry in the hallway, only Harry naturally could beat him. Then he tries to ambush him on the train and of course Harry's got a whole army behind him.

Now, to me this makes sense given where Draco was. He was still playing games up until just then so now it's like it's the final exam and he hasn't studied. Harry's been serious for a long time and working on how to defeat his enemies. Draco wasn't.

I don't know if it's going to happen, but Lucius being thrown in jail *could* really be the thing that made Draco get serious. It would be good if his humor reflected this too and got funnier, though at this point I doubt JKR ever being generous enough to really do that. But in fanfic I think it's only natural to do it.

It's funny...so many fics start with the cliche, "When X came back 6th year, he was really different..." But here canon's actually set us up for it and everybody's all, "Well, I guess that's it for Draco. Can't change at all. Always has to be a loser!"

[notrafficlights.livejournal.com]

secret-Hufflepuff!Draco

I keep on hearing about this phenomenon, but have honestly never read it anywhere. Very strange indeed. Any recommended links?

His Father's Son!Draco

Nooo! There's enough of that shit around. We need more His Mother's Son!Draco! We need much much more Draco Black Malfoy. We need some Harry angsting about the fact that as Draco gets older his eyes are becoming like Sirius's, or something (dude, c'mon, you can't tell me that's not a totally hot and slightly twisted H/D plot-bunny right there!). See, I hear a lot of people bitch about "Draco is no Ice-King", but I think you could make an argument for it from his mother's influence, if you needed. And hell, maybe he has some recessive rebellion in him from the Black side as well. C'mmoonnn. Enough with the Malfoy! It's Black time!

[notrafficlights.livejournal.com]

I think BBQ is a shortening of Barb-B-Q, which again, is a shortening of Barbeque.

You have really slutty action figures.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I think I remember being a very serious, wistful sort of child... and a really rather melodramatically tragic teenager... and a really jaded young adult... so somewhere in between all that the absurdity took a firm grip on my psyche. This isn't to say I like humor as the main element of most-- or all-- things. I mean, I don't like Good Omens either ^^;; Stylistically, I mean. I think it's like Monty Python in that it's not -quite- my sort of humor.

`Folk of the Air' made me sick with amusement, but it's actually quite a serious story. It's like... you can take things seriously and laugh at them, too. Maybe it takes a certain sort of madness, though :>

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Besides everything else, Draco On The Warpath is JUST SO HOT >:D :D :D How could anyone resist him???

Ohhhhhhh would-be-assassin!Draco makes me weak in the knees ;))
And funnier. I like the part where he's funnier. Heheheeeeeeee man, this is why I loved Antenora's post-Hogwarts fics :>

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

You have really slutty action figures.
...Only reason they're not naked is that their clothes amuse me :>
That's why I got them, anyway. Ehehehe I can't just pose Harry & Draco together without having them need to get... closer :>

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

LMAO! I was a pretty serious kid. I was a pretty serious teenager. ...I'm a pretty serious adult. So yeah, I'm just generally serious, but that said, I do like some humor. Hey, Daily Show fan.

Which brings me to taking something seriously and laughing at them, too, because really that's the humor that speaks to me. God knows I take politics seriously - hell, I haven't said I'm not leaving the country, have I? But sometimes, I think there are some things which, if you take them seriously, you need to laugh at them, as well, or you're likely to go mad.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Well, if you want to torture yourself like that, go ahead and read anything by Olivia Lupin or Naadi's `Checkmate'. Let it be known that I hate `Checkmate' with all the passion of my soul.

Yes, but. Uh. I haven't played with Lucius much, so to me it's all shiny and new-- and remember, I was ignoring what was or wasn't being done by fandom, because simply thinking about fandom makes me twitch and want to kill things right now. *happy grin*

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's really the avoiding going mad thing that is the basic root of my own humor, methinks-- or possibly humor in general >:D In the end, I can't tell just -how- serious I am, but I think one needs to break things up a bit, yes, which was my point about the angst-whorishness and the needing-pain-24/7 thing :> I mean, I dunno about anyone else, but I myself would probably crack ^^

This brings me to the fact that I'm probably a 'delicate' sort~:)) Well, comparatively. Coming to fandom, I realized there are such delicate flowers that can't read anything but happily-ever-after fluffy kitten slash. That would drive me insane much quicker :>

[blacksatinrose.livejournal.com]

You know, I might crack from reading only angst if I... read more fic HAHAH! Which is funny since it seems like 95% of our conversations involve my eventually going "yeah, wouldn't know about that, since I don't read fic really..." but it's true that I come at things from a different angle because of that.

Like I can't get sick of only reading angst, because reading only angst means reading one angsty story a month, or something in that area.

So yeah, I have no idea if you're comparatively delicate, at least comparative to me, since I don't read enough to see if it'd get old for me eventually. ;)

[notrafficlights.livejournal.com]

Poor thing *hugs* Teh Fandom was irking me a little now too. I think it's kind of gone into gimnp-mode because of the GoF-movie thing. Well, at least that's what I'm blaming it on.

[cellia.livejournal.com]

So... you don't want that list of veela!Draco fics I'm compiling? :D

*hugs*

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Man, there's always time for veela!Draco :D Naked. Especially naked. And in heat. With wings! And fangs!!! >:D

*hugs back*

[malafede.livejournal.com]

Hufflepuffs aren't wimps, though. *can't resist Hufflepuff reference* They are petulant and paranoid and loyal and... I am not commenting on Draco, I swear.

Draco kissed Harry inside his ear and wrote "Potter is out to get you" along his scar with the blood of a House Elf.

[go-back-chief.livejournal.com]

Antenora has written post-Hogwarts fics? I only knew about "the losting side" by Antenora... That one (TLS) used to be one of my favourites, though, way back when I still read any great quantities of H/D. Because while many fics took the approach that Draco had been through big traumatic DE experiences during the summer, which had changed him forever, making him "nicer" -renouncing father and prejudices and never uttering the "M-word" again, hers was infinitely more realistic, having Draco come back from "traumatic experiences" even nastier than before. *relishes in memory*

[go-back-chief.livejournal.com]

It's funny...so many fics start with the cliche, "When X came back 6th year, he was really different..." But here canon's actually set us up for it and everybody's all, "Well, I guess that's it for Draco. Can't change at all. Always has to be a loser!"

Isn't that incredibly weird? I mean, who, seriously, had expected Draco's father to get imprisoned as early as in book five? And had wasn't that reaction quite a bit different from everything we've seen of Draco so far as well? I mean "Dad", and he's never seriously tried to really harm anyone that way before (well, OK, the curse in GoF, but I can't say that was the same thing, since it was spontaneous as opposed to planned, as the train-attack). Wouldn't these things, if anything, be signifiers of increased importance, if not necessarily something that will turn out for the better, in the end? And still, the absolutely dominant opinion seem to be just this: "he will become less and less significant, until he's just left there to ooze in his unimportance, excepting his standard cameos where Harry lifts him to the air and turns him upside-down." I don't get it. I could understand if the main predictions were that he would become Harry's newest threat, the next "Evil to look out for", but I will never understand the "his peak has been reached already" view.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Well, what House would -you- put Naadi's Draco in? :>




Hehehe, ohh Draco. So romantic it hurts.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I actually like her post-Hogwarts fics more than `The Losing Side'-- the characterization of Harry was really unique-- I mean, no one else wrote tough!angry!Harry back then, unless you count Saber ShadowKitten, which I don't. Um, the fics are at the PSA, but she's taken down a bunch for rewriting and never put them back up, though.

The traumatic-DE-experiences-over-the-summer was actually cliche post-GoF. At least, it was Riddle's thing. No one did it like Riddle did it, ahahah. I mean, seriously... `Beasts and Butterflies (http://www.geocities.com/beastsandbutterflies)' started it all. I'm guessing it'd seem really dated now, though.
Ahhh, I love being an old fogie.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

Mudbloods.

*runs*