~~ subversion aversion reversion....
Nov. 9th, 2004 05:32 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaAll right, this is going to sound weird, but... this is part of my long-running issue with the idea of subversive literary criticism. I realize it's my issue and may have limited application, as such.
So. Is it actually possible to subvert a text (or a system, also) by trying to subvert it, or in other words, make it turn in on itself (contradict itself)? For instance, given that you're a fan who is really in the community because you want to change the accepted-- or implicit-- definition/meaning of the text, at least within your own writing. Given that you're not there to 'work with' but rather 'work against' the text while using its boundaries (which would translate to 'remaining in character' as best you could). Would it actually be possible to apply the idea of 'success' to this endeavor?
Is there such a thing as 'success' at purposefully working against canon without attempting to create fanon? Can fanfiction hold some sort of direct dialogue with canon and act as an actual critique of it, and if so, is that even desirable to people who'd consider themselves fans or only people who in fact aren't fans, and would thus not want to read said fanfic?
My knee-jerk response seems to be 'no'. That is, I think that in order to hold such a dialogue with the original text, a fanfic writer would have to be both subversive and simultaneously(!) project their imagination to be part of the flow of canon. I believe you couldn't truly subvert without fully feeling out the shape of the source text-- understanding its biases, listening to its tones, accepting its idiosyncracies to some extent. I suppose I mean, you can't fully remake a 'parent' text on a certain level, because the readership will always be aware of the differences. You can't really subvert, can you, if it doesn't feel 'real'-- if the readers are just suspending their disbelief. If the fic doesn't read like a lost part of canon, basically.
In my Tolkien & Lewis class, we are allowed to write fanfic for our final project, and one of the stipulations of our professor's guidelines is that the story 'work with' the text. That is, she wants us to imitate the tone & language, and to have our fics really feel like they're part of that world. And since the general atmosphere is part of the world, one feels like to really write fic set in it, you'd have to adopt at least some aspect of the style of original portrayal. I'm not saying that's all that's worthwhile to do, since worth is naturally subjective, only that if the implicit goal is to set a fic in a borrowed world, you'd want to borrow as much as possible.
I think... this wouldn't concern me nearly as much if I didn't feel, with a sort of sinking sensation in my stomach, that nearly all the fic I've read in the HP fandom, -ever-, has been subversive in some way-- had set out to twist and play with canon (which is definitely fun) without a concurrent sense of also flowing along its lines. This goes beyond facts, precisely, and into atmosphere-- the feel of the original. So that when you read it, regardless of the quirks of the characters' behavior, you'd think, 'this is them! I am back there, in the world I love! I am back!' Admittedly, this is perhaps the most difficult thing a fan-writer could try to achieve, but it also seems that as a fan, it would be the most delightful.
And yeah, I realize that I'm talking about what sounds like 'genfic' through and through-- but boy, do I wish one could write slashfic & hetfic like that, too. It's the (good) comics-writer's model, really-- take an existing canon, write new issues with the past events/characterizations/styles in mind (hopefully), but expand to include new pairings, new adventures, new angles... like a hidden secret passage. Suddenly you think, oh my god, what if JK Rowling meant for this to happen? I totally thought this with slash sometimes-- like with Miss Breed's `Red', and Aspen's writing (hahaha!!). So like, you could have tricksy subversion that works by popping up when you've already decided 'oh good, danger's past'. That'd be so cool.
So. Is it actually possible to subvert a text (or a system, also) by trying to subvert it, or in other words, make it turn in on itself (contradict itself)? For instance, given that you're a fan who is really in the community because you want to change the accepted-- or implicit-- definition/meaning of the text, at least within your own writing. Given that you're not there to 'work with' but rather 'work against' the text while using its boundaries (which would translate to 'remaining in character' as best you could). Would it actually be possible to apply the idea of 'success' to this endeavor?
Is there such a thing as 'success' at purposefully working against canon without attempting to create fanon? Can fanfiction hold some sort of direct dialogue with canon and act as an actual critique of it, and if so, is that even desirable to people who'd consider themselves fans or only people who in fact aren't fans, and would thus not want to read said fanfic?
My knee-jerk response seems to be 'no'. That is, I think that in order to hold such a dialogue with the original text, a fanfic writer would have to be both subversive and simultaneously(!) project their imagination to be part of the flow of canon. I believe you couldn't truly subvert without fully feeling out the shape of the source text-- understanding its biases, listening to its tones, accepting its idiosyncracies to some extent. I suppose I mean, you can't fully remake a 'parent' text on a certain level, because the readership will always be aware of the differences. You can't really subvert, can you, if it doesn't feel 'real'-- if the readers are just suspending their disbelief. If the fic doesn't read like a lost part of canon, basically.
In my Tolkien & Lewis class, we are allowed to write fanfic for our final project, and one of the stipulations of our professor's guidelines is that the story 'work with' the text. That is, she wants us to imitate the tone & language, and to have our fics really feel like they're part of that world. And since the general atmosphere is part of the world, one feels like to really write fic set in it, you'd have to adopt at least some aspect of the style of original portrayal. I'm not saying that's all that's worthwhile to do, since worth is naturally subjective, only that if the implicit goal is to set a fic in a borrowed world, you'd want to borrow as much as possible.
I think... this wouldn't concern me nearly as much if I didn't feel, with a sort of sinking sensation in my stomach, that nearly all the fic I've read in the HP fandom, -ever-, has been subversive in some way-- had set out to twist and play with canon (which is definitely fun) without a concurrent sense of also flowing along its lines. This goes beyond facts, precisely, and into atmosphere-- the feel of the original. So that when you read it, regardless of the quirks of the characters' behavior, you'd think, 'this is them! I am back there, in the world I love! I am back!' Admittedly, this is perhaps the most difficult thing a fan-writer could try to achieve, but it also seems that as a fan, it would be the most delightful.
And yeah, I realize that I'm talking about what sounds like 'genfic' through and through-- but boy, do I wish one could write slashfic & hetfic like that, too. It's the (good) comics-writer's model, really-- take an existing canon, write new issues with the past events/characterizations/styles in mind (hopefully), but expand to include new pairings, new adventures, new angles... like a hidden secret passage. Suddenly you think, oh my god, what if JK Rowling meant for this to happen? I totally thought this with slash sometimes-- like with Miss Breed's `Red', and Aspen's writing (hahaha!!). So like, you could have tricksy subversion that works by popping up when you've already decided 'oh good, danger's past'. That'd be so cool.
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no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 03:56 pm (UTC)I suppose it depends on whether you are taking "Might be mistaken for lost piece of canon by someone who hadn't read much of canon" as a measure of merit. By this token, Wide Sargasso Sea is a failure because it doesn't sound like Bronte wrote it. (It doesn't.) If you want to look at fanfic as textual commentary (and you seem to) then how is the quality of the commentary related to its similarity to canonical prose style?
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 04:05 pm (UTC)So I wasn't just talking about prose style precisely (that is, the exact rhythms of the original) but the feel itself-- like, it's hard to quantify, but... I wasn't really thinking of anything in HP. It's mostly in comics, really~:) I miss the feeling like it's all one continuing story, even if every bit is talking about different characters doing different things. But in a way that's a different genre altogether, not really fanfiction as much as collaborative fiction. Maybe that's it.
I do get fleeting bits of feeling, even reading HP fanfic, where it's like I -recognize- Harry (or Remus, or Hermione)-- something about either what they say or how they say it or how their mind seem to work. It rarely holds for the entire fic, but I've gotten that impression, at least, and the impression is all I was referring to-- rather than an objective measure, that is.
But yeah, it'd be near-impossible to precisely duplicate and probably not even desirable, 'cause-- well, what's the point when the author is there for that :>
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 07:43 pm (UTC)Right, shared world stuff things like Borderlands, and the BoM and Thieves' World and so forth are collaborative fiction. Fanfiction, which involves no collaboration with the author, is a different ballgame. Just because you're sneaking over to your neighbors' house when they're not there and swimming in their pool doesn't mean you all have a timeshare together. :>
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 08:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 04:49 pm (UTC)No, I'm not taking 'canon-feel' for 'measure of merit' (or worth-- a 'worthile endeavor'), and was trying to actually juxtapose textual-commentary fanfic (especially the subversive sort) with imitative fic which attempts to share in the universe in some sort of... gestalt fashion. I was trying to also say that you can't have a successful commentary fic without just writing a good (regular) fanfic. I actually am tired of fics having a blatant agenda, but that's more an issue of bad writing than anything else, anyway.
I think the problem is that I was trying to talk about things which are almost impossible to fully quantify & whenever one does, one runs up against 'but you can never imitate 100%'-- whereas to me it's not a question of percentages of success but rather a sense of the fic 'clicking in place' as a possibility. Er.