~~ subversion aversion reversion....
Nov. 9th, 2004 05:32 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaAll right, this is going to sound weird, but... this is part of my long-running issue with the idea of subversive literary criticism. I realize it's my issue and may have limited application, as such.
So. Is it actually possible to subvert a text (or a system, also) by trying to subvert it, or in other words, make it turn in on itself (contradict itself)? For instance, given that you're a fan who is really in the community because you want to change the accepted-- or implicit-- definition/meaning of the text, at least within your own writing. Given that you're not there to 'work with' but rather 'work against' the text while using its boundaries (which would translate to 'remaining in character' as best you could). Would it actually be possible to apply the idea of 'success' to this endeavor?
Is there such a thing as 'success' at purposefully working against canon without attempting to create fanon? Can fanfiction hold some sort of direct dialogue with canon and act as an actual critique of it, and if so, is that even desirable to people who'd consider themselves fans or only people who in fact aren't fans, and would thus not want to read said fanfic?
My knee-jerk response seems to be 'no'. That is, I think that in order to hold such a dialogue with the original text, a fanfic writer would have to be both subversive and simultaneously(!) project their imagination to be part of the flow of canon. I believe you couldn't truly subvert without fully feeling out the shape of the source text-- understanding its biases, listening to its tones, accepting its idiosyncracies to some extent. I suppose I mean, you can't fully remake a 'parent' text on a certain level, because the readership will always be aware of the differences. You can't really subvert, can you, if it doesn't feel 'real'-- if the readers are just suspending their disbelief. If the fic doesn't read like a lost part of canon, basically.
In my Tolkien & Lewis class, we are allowed to write fanfic for our final project, and one of the stipulations of our professor's guidelines is that the story 'work with' the text. That is, she wants us to imitate the tone & language, and to have our fics really feel like they're part of that world. And since the general atmosphere is part of the world, one feels like to really write fic set in it, you'd have to adopt at least some aspect of the style of original portrayal. I'm not saying that's all that's worthwhile to do, since worth is naturally subjective, only that if the implicit goal is to set a fic in a borrowed world, you'd want to borrow as much as possible.
I think... this wouldn't concern me nearly as much if I didn't feel, with a sort of sinking sensation in my stomach, that nearly all the fic I've read in the HP fandom, -ever-, has been subversive in some way-- had set out to twist and play with canon (which is definitely fun) without a concurrent sense of also flowing along its lines. This goes beyond facts, precisely, and into atmosphere-- the feel of the original. So that when you read it, regardless of the quirks of the characters' behavior, you'd think, 'this is them! I am back there, in the world I love! I am back!' Admittedly, this is perhaps the most difficult thing a fan-writer could try to achieve, but it also seems that as a fan, it would be the most delightful.
And yeah, I realize that I'm talking about what sounds like 'genfic' through and through-- but boy, do I wish one could write slashfic & hetfic like that, too. It's the (good) comics-writer's model, really-- take an existing canon, write new issues with the past events/characterizations/styles in mind (hopefully), but expand to include new pairings, new adventures, new angles... like a hidden secret passage. Suddenly you think, oh my god, what if JK Rowling meant for this to happen? I totally thought this with slash sometimes-- like with Miss Breed's `Red', and Aspen's writing (hahaha!!). So like, you could have tricksy subversion that works by popping up when you've already decided 'oh good, danger's past'. That'd be so cool.
So. Is it actually possible to subvert a text (or a system, also) by trying to subvert it, or in other words, make it turn in on itself (contradict itself)? For instance, given that you're a fan who is really in the community because you want to change the accepted-- or implicit-- definition/meaning of the text, at least within your own writing. Given that you're not there to 'work with' but rather 'work against' the text while using its boundaries (which would translate to 'remaining in character' as best you could). Would it actually be possible to apply the idea of 'success' to this endeavor?
Is there such a thing as 'success' at purposefully working against canon without attempting to create fanon? Can fanfiction hold some sort of direct dialogue with canon and act as an actual critique of it, and if so, is that even desirable to people who'd consider themselves fans or only people who in fact aren't fans, and would thus not want to read said fanfic?
My knee-jerk response seems to be 'no'. That is, I think that in order to hold such a dialogue with the original text, a fanfic writer would have to be both subversive and simultaneously(!) project their imagination to be part of the flow of canon. I believe you couldn't truly subvert without fully feeling out the shape of the source text-- understanding its biases, listening to its tones, accepting its idiosyncracies to some extent. I suppose I mean, you can't fully remake a 'parent' text on a certain level, because the readership will always be aware of the differences. You can't really subvert, can you, if it doesn't feel 'real'-- if the readers are just suspending their disbelief. If the fic doesn't read like a lost part of canon, basically.
In my Tolkien & Lewis class, we are allowed to write fanfic for our final project, and one of the stipulations of our professor's guidelines is that the story 'work with' the text. That is, she wants us to imitate the tone & language, and to have our fics really feel like they're part of that world. And since the general atmosphere is part of the world, one feels like to really write fic set in it, you'd have to adopt at least some aspect of the style of original portrayal. I'm not saying that's all that's worthwhile to do, since worth is naturally subjective, only that if the implicit goal is to set a fic in a borrowed world, you'd want to borrow as much as possible.
I think... this wouldn't concern me nearly as much if I didn't feel, with a sort of sinking sensation in my stomach, that nearly all the fic I've read in the HP fandom, -ever-, has been subversive in some way-- had set out to twist and play with canon (which is definitely fun) without a concurrent sense of also flowing along its lines. This goes beyond facts, precisely, and into atmosphere-- the feel of the original. So that when you read it, regardless of the quirks of the characters' behavior, you'd think, 'this is them! I am back there, in the world I love! I am back!' Admittedly, this is perhaps the most difficult thing a fan-writer could try to achieve, but it also seems that as a fan, it would be the most delightful.
And yeah, I realize that I'm talking about what sounds like 'genfic' through and through-- but boy, do I wish one could write slashfic & hetfic like that, too. It's the (good) comics-writer's model, really-- take an existing canon, write new issues with the past events/characterizations/styles in mind (hopefully), but expand to include new pairings, new adventures, new angles... like a hidden secret passage. Suddenly you think, oh my god, what if JK Rowling meant for this to happen? I totally thought this with slash sometimes-- like with Miss Breed's `Red', and Aspen's writing (hahaha!!). So like, you could have tricksy subversion that works by popping up when you've already decided 'oh good, danger's past'. That'd be so cool.
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no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 03:27 pm (UTC)I've actually read one or two Harry Potter fics that did work with the storyline. They were mere snapshots of a specific point in time without trying to change the plot too much, but they existed within the canon plot, and worked well. I can't recall the stories at the moment, however. The writing styles obviously differed from JKR's as well, and you could say that that's the individual fanfic author's personal voice, but... I don't know. That's something I've alwaysalwaysalways wanted to find in the HP fandom as well-- slashfic that works fluidly with the plot and retains JKR's style. I WANT a fic that can, five years later, make me think "Oh, yeah, this happened in the series! Wait... no, that was a fanfic, wasn't it? Or was it canon?"
I've seen slashfic attempts to remain canon done successfully more often in anime, where the narrative voice isn't so crucial to match up. There are some utterly beautiful Gundam Wing fanfics out there that maintain excellent characterization and develop extentions on GW's set stories. <3
no subject
Date: 2004-11-09 07:11 pm (UTC)Generally I think it'd be cool to have completely imitative fics especially if I really really love the source (which... isn't the case with HP but is the case with Harry himself, so I'm really picky about the Harrys I read and want them to be SO IC JUST LIKE JKR WANTED OMG)-- but on the other hand, those fics (in GW) that I've seen tend to be Heero/Relena. Which makes me shudder to contemplate, personally :>
no subject
Date: 2004-11-10 01:37 am (UTC)*gloats*
no subject
Date: 2004-11-10 04:31 pm (UTC)I mean... I wouldn't -want- to read a fic that's really -too- much like canon in GW 'cause I'm really bored with wars & politics & even grand sweeping epics & things. It should tell you something that my favorite genre of GW fic is AU.
So basically, I haven't even -read- H/R (...except I think that one fic where it was a threesome) but I've seen one or two people who're clearly obsessed with writing 'canon-style' in that pairing-- but I can't judge, because a) I hate the pairing & b) most of it (and most het in anime fandoms in general) is written by barely pubescent 14 year-olds who can't spell. I am so not kidding. The big reason to read 1x2 (or 3x4) slash in GW? Is 'cause that's pretty much where the only widely-recced or known goodfic is.
And I do think a lot of good, canonically-characterized fic gets written for 1x2-- when you have a pairing fandom that size, -some- of it will be good through sheer statistics-- but it tends to be AU, as I said-- or at least in some way seriously disconnected from canon. Though honestly, Sunhawk is really good in that respect, actually-- there's some stuff. It just doesn't -quite- have the feel of GW 'cause of the lack of utter sweeping political morality-taleness. The two H/R fics I'm thinking of seem much more stuffy. Rather like GW (me & most mecha shows... don't mix).
You can't really trust GW fandom anyway. I mean, that fic recced below-- `Rules'-- eh. Why does everyone make Duo a whore-boy?? WHYYYYYyyyyYYYyyyyYYYYYYYYyyyy...??
*grumble* Man, I like my happy AU wonderland.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-10 11:08 pm (UTC)Yeah, I was about to say that. I remember reading in the GW fandom. Oh, I so remember it. All I read was 2x1, btw. And it's something I repressed.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-10 10:45 am (UTC)Ugh, I avoid Heero/Relena with a passion (as you may be able to tell by this comment's avatar.) I haven't read GW fanfic for a couple of years, but there were a couple that actually were yaoi (well... shounenai) and still worked well with the canon.
(Then again, I often rediscover fics I was thoroughly impressed by, and realize years later that the quality wasn't quite what I remembered it to be.)
An interesting 1x2 read, if that's your ship of choice, is Rules (http://www.roseargent.com/rules.html) by Rose Argent. It goes along with the canon, and I really adore the character portrayals. They may not be 100% GW-canon-style, but the differences are negligible, I think. I can't remember the quality of conventions in the fic, though-- just that I quite fancied the story.