(who's gay?? DRACO'S GAY!!1)
Aug. 30th, 2004 09:45 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaI really wonder if it makes a serious difference that I wrote the porn snippet yesterday only for me and partly for ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
malafede. Like. Is it possible to actually write fiction with that narrow of a target audience that only really succeeds with that audience? Not that no one else liked it, but it's not a mass pleaser by any means (and the one crit I got said it suffered from lack of setting). I mean, there's the lack of setting/characterization/etc but is it just that? It seems to me that it gained most of its meaning in context, which is: a) Harry/Draco fucking in my head-- WHEN it is in my head to start with-- needs no context, period; b) malafede's Draco (a foreign 'muse' I'm on familiar terms with-- whatever the fuck -that- means) was being sulky so my Harry was being smirky/horny (on a weird meta level that I feel awkward even approaching rationally). It's weird 'cause like, I'm so fascinated with audience when it comes to fic.
Also because I was readingmusesfool's lj and she was saying how the Remus & Sirius in her head are gay, right-- and I'm not like this with most characters I have 'muses' for-- or, more precisely, I'm only like this with Draco that much, since I do think Pansy & Sirius & Remus are gay, just not so emphatically GAY. Sure, I think 'theoretically' or 'realistically' or whatever, on some uber-objective author's-intent (???! don't even want to get into that, but go with me) level he's either straight or bi.... But in my head... he's just gay. GAY. GAY in big orange letters. G-A-Y. Very gay. So gay it hurts. Veryveryveryveryvery gay, etc etc and so on and so forth. I think the reason I go on about it like that is 'cause I enjoy it. I -like- thinking of him like that. It's like... hot or something. Gay!Harry isn't hot... but gay!Draco is like... -mine- in some weird twisted (WHAT THE HELL IS UP WITH ME) sort of way. I think it's another way of saying when I say 'cock-whore!Draco is mine' I mean Harry's. I mean he's Harry's. Therefore, when I say gay!Draco, I mean Harry's!Draco.
Hmm.
Anyway, that occurred to me 'causejedi_penguin said that maybe musesfool is so convinced Sirius & Remus are gay because they're so exclusively each other's. I wonder if being an OTPer leads to this. Though then, I dislike Harry with anyone but Draco, but not -that- much. Can you be an imbalanced OTP-er based on the character you most identify with....? Not that I honestly identify with Draco less, actually, it's just that I'm very conscious that he's very different.
Even so, it seems to be true. My Draco is Harry's, forever and ever amen, so clearly that means he's gay (even though he might 'like' girls, ahahahah TOO BAD, LOVERBOY). But the question of whether attachment defines fictional sexuality or the other way around is a rather meta & tricky one. I think this might be why I dislike stories where it's very laid out that so-and-so is gay, therefore they are looking into the male contingent of the population. It's not slash in some vital way to me. Slash would always go 'only want boy'--> therefore 'gay by default'. Not 'realistic', but just how my slasher mind operates.
Outside the OTP issue, though... without Harry, Draco would prolly go with a girl long-term 'cause he's a conformist but fuck boys in filthy back rooms; it would probably never occur to Harry that he -could- like boys outside of Draco/etc pouncing him, so left to his own devices, he'd be straight. I don't think my Harry gets off on boys outside of some particular one he's attracted to, just because he's rather asexual, whereas I see Draco as rather sexual but repressed. If he wasn't repressed, though, he'd be mostly gay though would fuck girls to feel dominant, the poor wanker.
Some people without 'muses' or a general vision of the characters outside of the particular story they're in might not get this, though. I've had people (well,ishuca) tell me that she doesn't have a singular Draco; I imagine not all writers do have a single version of a character-- why would they? Most 'original' fic writers don't need to have a single version, unless they write sequel upon sequel, which isn't that common. This seems to be more of an RP thing. For me it's more of a quantity-of-writing thing-- I've written the equivalent of an epic or two, word-count-wise, by now, so patterns have emerged. Surely I'm entitled to be on 'familiar terms' with the boys, so to speak :>
PS. Nothing to do with anything, but I'm so having a big ole literary crush on Virginia Woolf right now. Just sayin'.
PPS. The Theban Band can have my babies. Baby Number One: would gurgle and scream POTTER. Baby Number Two: would just sigh contendedly at the pretty full moon. ♥♥♥♥
Also,blacksatinrose's oh-so-reasonable point-by-point S/R plausibility defense has made me nearly weepy with joy. SEE, WE'RE NOT ALL INSANE, DAMMIT!!1 >:O Though clearly, that doesn't quite apply to me. Oh well.
EDIT - This had to be noted:ildi_bp has done the impossible: drawn such amazing Snape/Draco that I literally felt the pairing. Owwww, my -brain-!!1
malafede. Like. Is it possible to actually write fiction with that narrow of a target audience that only really succeeds with that audience? Not that no one else liked it, but it's not a mass pleaser by any means (and the one crit I got said it suffered from lack of setting). I mean, there's the lack of setting/characterization/etc but is it just that? It seems to me that it gained most of its meaning in context, which is: a) Harry/Draco fucking in my head-- WHEN it is in my head to start with-- needs no context, period; b) malafede's Draco (a foreign 'muse' I'm on familiar terms with-- whatever the fuck -that- means) was being sulky so my Harry was being smirky/horny (on a weird meta level that I feel awkward even approaching rationally). It's weird 'cause like, I'm so fascinated with audience when it comes to fic.Also because I was reading
musesfool's lj and she was saying how the Remus & Sirius in her head are gay, right-- and I'm not like this with most characters I have 'muses' for-- or, more precisely, I'm only like this with Draco that much, since I do think Pansy & Sirius & Remus are gay, just not so emphatically GAY. Sure, I think 'theoretically' or 'realistically' or whatever, on some uber-objective author's-intent (???! don't even want to get into that, but go with me) level he's either straight or bi.... But in my head... he's just gay. GAY. GAY in big orange letters. G-A-Y. Very gay. So gay it hurts. Veryveryveryveryvery gay, etc etc and so on and so forth. I think the reason I go on about it like that is 'cause I enjoy it. I -like- thinking of him like that. It's like... hot or something. Gay!Harry isn't hot... but gay!Draco is like... -mine- in some weird twisted (WHAT THE HELL IS UP WITH ME) sort of way. I think it's another way of saying when I say 'cock-whore!Draco is mine' I mean Harry's. I mean he's Harry's. Therefore, when I say gay!Draco, I mean Harry's!Draco.Hmm.
Anyway, that occurred to me 'cause
jedi_penguin said that maybe musesfool is so convinced Sirius & Remus are gay because they're so exclusively each other's. I wonder if being an OTPer leads to this. Though then, I dislike Harry with anyone but Draco, but not -that- much. Can you be an imbalanced OTP-er based on the character you most identify with....? Not that I honestly identify with Draco less, actually, it's just that I'm very conscious that he's very different.Even so, it seems to be true. My Draco is Harry's, forever and ever amen, so clearly that means he's gay (even though he might 'like' girls, ahahahah TOO BAD, LOVERBOY). But the question of whether attachment defines fictional sexuality or the other way around is a rather meta & tricky one. I think this might be why I dislike stories where it's very laid out that so-and-so is gay, therefore they are looking into the male contingent of the population. It's not slash in some vital way to me. Slash would always go 'only want boy'--> therefore 'gay by default'. Not 'realistic', but just how my slasher mind operates.
Outside the OTP issue, though... without Harry, Draco would prolly go with a girl long-term 'cause he's a conformist but fuck boys in filthy back rooms; it would probably never occur to Harry that he -could- like boys outside of Draco/etc pouncing him, so left to his own devices, he'd be straight. I don't think my Harry gets off on boys outside of some particular one he's attracted to, just because he's rather asexual, whereas I see Draco as rather sexual but repressed. If he wasn't repressed, though, he'd be mostly gay though would fuck girls to feel dominant, the poor wanker.
Some people without 'muses' or a general vision of the characters outside of the particular story they're in might not get this, though. I've had people (well,
ishuca) tell me that she doesn't have a singular Draco; I imagine not all writers do have a single version of a character-- why would they? Most 'original' fic writers don't need to have a single version, unless they write sequel upon sequel, which isn't that common. This seems to be more of an RP thing. For me it's more of a quantity-of-writing thing-- I've written the equivalent of an epic or two, word-count-wise, by now, so patterns have emerged. Surely I'm entitled to be on 'familiar terms' with the boys, so to speak :>PS. Nothing to do with anything, but I'm so having a big ole literary crush on Virginia Woolf right now. Just sayin'.
PPS. The Theban Band can have my babies. Baby Number One: would gurgle and scream POTTER. Baby Number Two: would just sigh contendedly at the pretty full moon. ♥♥♥♥
Also,
blacksatinrose's oh-so-reasonable point-by-point S/R plausibility defense has made me nearly weepy with joy. SEE, WE'RE NOT ALL INSANE, DAMMIT!!1 >:O Though clearly, that doesn't quite apply to me. Oh well.EDIT - This had to be noted:
ildi_bp has done the impossible: drawn such amazing Snape/Draco that I literally felt the pairing. Owwww, my -brain-!!1
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no subject
Date: 2004-09-02 09:40 am (UTC)I don't think, for me, it necessarily has to do with OTP-ness, because I see Harry as fairly bi or androgynous (he reacts the same way to teen!Lupin as he does to Cho), and if there's going to be an Actual Honest-to-God Gay Character in the books, I'm betting on Tonks (as she's peripheral, pretty and lesbians are more easily accepted than gay men who teach children by a certain stripe of conservative, should that even be a worry for JKR, which I don't think it is).
Remus has always just pinged me as the cool gay uncle. The movie only reinforced that (with a side of creepy Uncle Bad Touch, which I did not like), especially with the ending and the change from "people don't want werewolves" to "people don't want people like me" in Lupin's speech.
As a metaphor for the Other, gay is certainly one of the readings you can take from Lupin's character, along with HIV+, mentally ill etc.
As for Sirius... I admit that pre-OotP I thought of him as omnisexual, as he is a hedonist, but in love with Remus. After OotP... I tend to see him as almost completely uninterested in women in any way.
I do think it can be a cheat to have your character be Not Gay But in Love with X Only for the sake of the OTP. That can be an interesting story, if done well, but it can also lead to ridiculousness, which I've seen in various fandoms. "Oh, I never fuck men, but I want to fuck *you*, Remus/Lex/Mal/Spike" etc. WHich isn't to say there aren't some characters I believe to be straight but make that kind of exception for (James->Sirius and Ron->Harry, and lately, Charlie->Oliver, for example), though usually, my default when I write fic is that everybody (with one or two exceptions) is bi, and it's not a big deal, because I'm not in this to deal with queer issues, you know?
I like to think I can separate the idea of Remus/Sirius OTP!!!11one from my reading of the text as itself instead of fodder for fic (though god help me, in their case I kinda can't because I do see textual support for the possibility), but even there, Remus pings me as gay.
Or, to jump fandoms, I can totally dig on reading Buffy/Faith or Faith/Cordelia, and where I believe that Faith would sleep with anyone who took her fancy regardless of gender, I see Buffy as canonically straight and uncomfortable to some degree with homosexuality at first (her reaction to Willow's coming out), and okay with it in others but not herself.
There aren't many characters I automatically think of as one orientation or another, because in fic, all things are possible, but there are two or three who will just strike me as gay or straight and that's it, I believe it and it's part of their characterization.
Does that make any sense at all?
no subject
Date: 2004-09-02 08:12 pm (UTC)*laughs* I do love the idea of the 'cool gay uncle', though honestly that would never have occurred to me (if anything, I didn't know 'cool gay uncle' existed as a stereotype to attach to someone). I can see how he's 'other' & so on, but it seems almost disingenuous to directly link it with homosexuality (er... too obvious, I guess?) Um. I mean, I can definitely see him as gay, but I just don't think personality/personal history is so necessarily tied to sexual orientation... though I'm sure it has an influence.
Heheh, poor Sirius, during OoTP he was barely interested in -anyone- but maybe Harry in any way (AHAHAHAH man, I don't even want to go there).
I don't like the Not Gay But In Love thing either; it's just easier to leave things unresolved than the plodding, preachy way orientation often gets handled in fanfic, I guess...? It's like... meh, especially with teenagers, it doesn't really have to figure into it (experimentation, finding yourself, etc). If you're talking people who were into each other since adolescence (Sirius/Remus), then it's like... well, I suppose they're bi by default, so what else would one need? Assumptions can be your friend :>
Omg, I'm totally with you on the Ron/Harry. Poor Ron, so straight, but awkward boy fumbling is so hot!!1 Oh someone save me from my not-so-sekrit Ron/Harry thing :D :D :D ahahah I think I can get away with it and say they can all have a happy threesome :D :D IT'S
MOVIECANON :DYeah, me too with the small number of characters who strike me as gay or straight (but I still might make exceptions for unless they're part of an OTP, and even in that case-- for hotness purposes). Though for me... the longer I stay in fandom, the more exceptions I make :>
no subject
Date: 2004-09-07 10:30 am (UTC)Heh. I've paired her with both genders in fic, but her name and the pink hair... I dunno. It's the very fact that her sexuality *is* irrelevant that makes me think it could be revealed, in a very peripheral throwaway way, far more than any bomb dropping about Remus and Sirius having been lovers, or something, you know?
it's just easier to leave things unresolved than the plodding, preachy way orientation often gets handled in fanfic, I guess...?
Yes. You can have the kids have an "OMG!" freakout (especially with MWPP-era, as m/m sex often carried heavy legal penalties if people wanted to be difficult about it), but it's best to avoid it in the adults.
As far as Remus, I always figure he's got so much other shit he's dealt with, being gay on top of it is sort of a non-issue. "Hey, I'm a freakin' werewolf. Your orientation angst can't hold a candle."
Poor Ron, so straight, but awkward boy fumbling is so hot!!
It so is. *g*
I prefer the H/R/Hr threesome, though I definitely do ship R/Hr and enjoy H/R.
Though for me... the longer I stay in fandom, the more exceptions I make
Heh. I'm the opposite, the longer I'm in fandom, the less I think anyone's anything but bi.