(het issues; move along)
Jun. 15th, 2004 08:37 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaI think, if anything, I have an anti-self-insertion issue, when it comes to het in HP: meaning maybe I take it too far. I mean, the boy I "like" the most is Harry, right, and pairing either of the two girls I might possibly identify with-- Hermione and Luna-- just feels wrong to me. Then again, I've only ever wanted Harry with whatever girl struck his fancy (i.e., Cho), but I never really felt like I myself supported a Harry-het pairing. It's like... I can see Harry being friends with a girl (obviously), but he's just so... stunted, I guess? In regards to emotionality and mushy stuff and like... yeah.
I guess I want to deal with his rage issues and insecurities and the martyr complex as well as the need for companionship & understanding he would supposedly get from a balanced, reasonable girl (like Hermione & Luna in different ways). I want Harry to be with whoever he really wants and has chemistry/sparkage with-- and he just doesn't have sparkage with Hermione (or Luna).
Still, I also think it's got something to do with them being "like" me, at least insofar as I feel like people ship these pairings in part because they -do- identify with Hermione, say. She's like... a "good girl", and shouldn't be wasted. She's also right there and Harry can -talk- to her. And... it's like the male/femaleness provides that essential -distance- between people I'd talked about (that seems necessary for romance). It's like, well, of -course- they could have sexual tension, too-- they're a boy and girl, aren't they?
I know it's immature-- I know-- but I will laugh after Ron & Hermione get together and the shipping debates all end (at last!). No more ship debates!! No more angst!! Oh, that hallowed day.
I could totally see a modern, 20-something romance between a girl "like" Hermione (overworking herself all the time at the office) and a boy "like" Harry (lost and somewhat directionless, but determined and sincere). It seems like an English sort of thing, too, actually-- to have people who'd stay together not out of some Grand Passion but because it's -comfortable- and it -works- and why go through the bother of messing with a good thing? Ron could be seen as an unstable character-- someone who could easily succumb to bitterness and drown under the expectations of the world, unlike the prodigious achieving of Harry (through luck and wild talent) and Hermione (through prodigious effort and will). Arthur Weasley is probably doing a lot better in the Potterverse than he "should", as poor as he is.
I think I also dislike the idea of couples that "work"-- that "make sense". Maybe it's some sort of latent resentment or something (in that I both often ship and fall for implausible characters myself). I mean, if you don't drive each other mad, where's the fun of it? Like, if everything falls into place and you make sense together for whatever reason-- what is it that makes you -have- to do it, to take it to the next level? Why do the two of you -need- to have dirty monkey sex, right now?
I think what's obvious here is that I'm stuck on a certain ideal of love and am being unreasonable-- I'm priviledging romantic passionate love over companionate love or the other zillion or so types. I'm sure plenty of people have temperaments that don't -work- with the idea of having to tear someone's clothes off right this second (thus, you could say all H/D fic is really meta-equivalent to veela!Draco fic, being so centered on passion and the magnetic animal attraction of it all). Most people probably aren't as focused on these pre-teen ideals as I am-- a good thing. Sometimes it puzzles me as to how one could both ship H/D and H/Hr, since they're nearly completely opposite types of relationships-- but maybe it's just that I'm being rather more single-minded.
I would say, for example, that Hermione's temperament doesn't work (necessarily) with wild-eyed passionate love, while Luna's does, but not with Harry (who needs someone to light his fire, at least in my head). I kind of like Hermione with Ron because I see Hermione resisting, and this intrigues me. I think it would be unusual for Hermione to have someone push -her- in some way, and have her give in-- 'cause it's almost certain that Ron is the one who'd initiate a relationship. Hermione is bossy, yes, but in love... I think she'd be rather conservative-- the type to hedge her bets. So what we have is a classic Victorian-type romance, except Hermione is being "the man"-- rational and emotionally repressed and domineering-- while Ron is being "the woman"-- wildly emotional and enthusiastic and a bit clumsy, sort of heroic in a bumbling, self-sacrificing way. It's like Jane Eyre, except... not.
And in this scenario, the H/Hr is the relationship that gets thrown over, because of course Hermione (the man) is generally in a comfortable, non-emotionally-demanding relationship to start with, which keeps them content but hardly happy. Harry is the beautiful, also emotionally repressed "other woman" (ahem) who needs to find someone brilliant to light her fire. Someone... unpredictable. Someone destabilizing in a magical sort of way that's actually stabilizing. Yes.
Clearly I've read one too many romance novel in my day. Woe.
~~
Also. Um. Is it like, the next step of bottom!Draco lurv to write H/D with female!Draco? The wrongness mostly comes from it -not- bothering me. Too much. ^^;
I guess I want to deal with his rage issues and insecurities and the martyr complex as well as the need for companionship & understanding he would supposedly get from a balanced, reasonable girl (like Hermione & Luna in different ways). I want Harry to be with whoever he really wants and has chemistry/sparkage with-- and he just doesn't have sparkage with Hermione (or Luna).
Still, I also think it's got something to do with them being "like" me, at least insofar as I feel like people ship these pairings in part because they -do- identify with Hermione, say. She's like... a "good girl", and shouldn't be wasted. She's also right there and Harry can -talk- to her. And... it's like the male/femaleness provides that essential -distance- between people I'd talked about (that seems necessary for romance). It's like, well, of -course- they could have sexual tension, too-- they're a boy and girl, aren't they?
I know it's immature-- I know-- but I will laugh after Ron & Hermione get together and the shipping debates all end (at last!). No more ship debates!! No more angst!! Oh, that hallowed day.
I could totally see a modern, 20-something romance between a girl "like" Hermione (overworking herself all the time at the office) and a boy "like" Harry (lost and somewhat directionless, but determined and sincere). It seems like an English sort of thing, too, actually-- to have people who'd stay together not out of some Grand Passion but because it's -comfortable- and it -works- and why go through the bother of messing with a good thing? Ron could be seen as an unstable character-- someone who could easily succumb to bitterness and drown under the expectations of the world, unlike the prodigious achieving of Harry (through luck and wild talent) and Hermione (through prodigious effort and will). Arthur Weasley is probably doing a lot better in the Potterverse than he "should", as poor as he is.
I think I also dislike the idea of couples that "work"-- that "make sense". Maybe it's some sort of latent resentment or something (in that I both often ship and fall for implausible characters myself). I mean, if you don't drive each other mad, where's the fun of it? Like, if everything falls into place and you make sense together for whatever reason-- what is it that makes you -have- to do it, to take it to the next level? Why do the two of you -need- to have dirty monkey sex, right now?
I think what's obvious here is that I'm stuck on a certain ideal of love and am being unreasonable-- I'm priviledging romantic passionate love over companionate love or the other zillion or so types. I'm sure plenty of people have temperaments that don't -work- with the idea of having to tear someone's clothes off right this second (thus, you could say all H/D fic is really meta-equivalent to veela!Draco fic, being so centered on passion and the magnetic animal attraction of it all). Most people probably aren't as focused on these pre-teen ideals as I am-- a good thing. Sometimes it puzzles me as to how one could both ship H/D and H/Hr, since they're nearly completely opposite types of relationships-- but maybe it's just that I'm being rather more single-minded.
I would say, for example, that Hermione's temperament doesn't work (necessarily) with wild-eyed passionate love, while Luna's does, but not with Harry (who needs someone to light his fire, at least in my head). I kind of like Hermione with Ron because I see Hermione resisting, and this intrigues me. I think it would be unusual for Hermione to have someone push -her- in some way, and have her give in-- 'cause it's almost certain that Ron is the one who'd initiate a relationship. Hermione is bossy, yes, but in love... I think she'd be rather conservative-- the type to hedge her bets. So what we have is a classic Victorian-type romance, except Hermione is being "the man"-- rational and emotionally repressed and domineering-- while Ron is being "the woman"-- wildly emotional and enthusiastic and a bit clumsy, sort of heroic in a bumbling, self-sacrificing way. It's like Jane Eyre, except... not.
And in this scenario, the H/Hr is the relationship that gets thrown over, because of course Hermione (the man) is generally in a comfortable, non-emotionally-demanding relationship to start with, which keeps them content but hardly happy. Harry is the beautiful, also emotionally repressed "other woman" (ahem) who needs to find someone brilliant to light her fire. Someone... unpredictable. Someone destabilizing in a magical sort of way that's actually stabilizing. Yes.
Clearly I've read one too many romance novel in my day. Woe.
~~
Also. Um. Is it like, the next step of bottom!Draco lurv to write H/D with female!Draco? The wrongness mostly comes from it -not- bothering me. Too much. ^^;
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Date: 2004-06-15 06:43 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2004-06-15 08:16 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2004-06-15 09:13 pm (UTC)no subject
First though, okay, QUIT HATING ON MY PAIRING BECAUSE I DON'T HATE ON YOURS EVEN THOUGH IT SUCKS. *shakes fist* Look, okay, I know that Ron has a crush on Hermione. This, as far as I'm concerned, is canon. He has a big stupid dorky crush on her. Fine. HOWEVER, I do not see it as being reciprocated. Maybe it was a little in fourth year. She was young and confused. By OotP you will just not sell me on that shit, though. Her and Ron just bicker, and not in a cute way, in an annoying way, in the way that two people bicker when one is feeling all stupid teenage boy towards the other and she's like, yeah, dude, I don't know how to tell you this, but no. And even Harry was like, both of you, shut the fuck up.
Meanwhile, Hermione and Harry are running around all teamed up and clutchy, protecting each other and all that, and it's clear they're the way to a really mature, happy relationship, and okay, maybe it's lame but I LIKE THAT, ALRIGHT. THEY DESERVE TO BE HAPPY WITH EACH OTHER, AND STABLE, AND STILL HAVE REALLY HOT SEX, WHICH THEY WOULD, BECAUSE YOU KNOW HERMIONE WOULD BE ALL, HARRY, I WAS THINKING WE SHOULD TRY THIS INTERESTING KINK, you know, and Harry would be like, yeah alright. Whereas Ron would be all confused and not think he was enough for her. So I guess I take issue with Ron's sexual inadequacy, because Hermione deserves better, and I think Harry would be good at sex, not just because I like to write porn, but because I think he has the sort of temperament to be very laid back and open-minded because he's not exactly the type to get on someone for being freaky or outside the norm or any of that crap.
And it could be passionate, okay. They can give each other exactly what they need, and it would be HOT, and interesting, and not like the boring ass way most H/Hr shippers seem to show their relationship. I mean, how hot could R/Hr be? They'd fucking kill each other! Ron would have no idea what to do! Hermione would be like, dammit Ronald, move like THIS, and Ron would get all insulted and boyish and Hermione would end up going to Harry who would get all embarrassed and unable to look Hermione in the way, especially when she was all "can you talk to him, Harry?" in this really sincere way, and anyway, my point is that I think I actually just plotted out a threesome fic, fuck.
I can't believe I'm arguing over something as stupid as supposed canon ships. wtf. HERMIONE AND HARRY WOULD HAVE BETTER SEX. THEY WIN, AND SO DO I. THE END.
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Date: 2004-06-15 10:09 pm (UTC)You = so cute when you're up in arms >:D :D!!
You're right though, ahaha. Ron and Hermione would totally have dorky, awkward "ouch, not -there-" type sex (for awhile at least); I can't believe I hadn't thought of that before!! AHAHAHAHA. Oh man, I'm still not converted (yeah right) but! I just realized what a dork-fest it would be. *dies laughing* I think in the end, I don't want to see Hermione sexually & I want to make Ron happy ('cause duuuude, Teh Ron!!1...and I am 12), and heheheh OMG YOU'RE RIGHT, and I forgot how I love your Hermione (I actually don't think I love anyone else's). <33333333333333333
I think "realistically" speaking, it's clear as day that JKR seems to feel surprised and flabbergasted at the H/Hr people and she says the pairing is "obvious" and H/Hr is more subtext than obvious. I mean, I think "romantic" teenage couples are supposed to like, not be supportive or sensitive and like, go hot-and-cold and the girl's -supposed- to be Not Interested so the boy can shape up & win her or whatever. But! I still think the way you see it is adorable :D :D heeeeeeee!! You're right though, I probably have a problem with how H/Hr-ers seem H/Hr more than I have a problem with H/Hr. This is why you should write sexeh!Hermione, to show everyone The Light >:D Right after you write veela!Draco, of course :> :> *chortles*
I shouldn't have allowed my distaste with the boring-ass way everyone waxes rhapsodic about the way Harry & Hermione are so much better 'cause Ron sucks to overwhelm me so much :> :> Heeeee! Clearly the One True Way is to compare sex techniques :D Plus, I don't get uptight about the asinine way a lot of people see H/D get to me, so I should know better, yes.
Did I mention how cutely righteous you were yet?
*big puppy eyes*
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Date: 2004-06-15 11:40 pm (UTC)I'd also like Ron happy (really!), but well, actually, if I think too much about Ron I start shipping the OT3 again. I honestly don't know what to do with Ron. I love him, but I don't know what to do with him, like a particularly entertaining trinket you have nowhere to display. He's a propellor hat at Saks Fifth Avenue, man.
I like to think that I do write sexy!Hermione, because that's what she is in my head and I like to think that carries into fic. Especially the porn epic. Where it's text.
If I was into obvious I'd be one of those people who are all *blink blink* but what do you mean ship other than textual canon ships? I do not understand this free will you speak of, vote Republican. Or something. That's why I can't love on hardcore H/Hr types either, because at some point I'm just like, but also Harry should hook up with all these other people, cos that would be hot and/or groovy.
Quit puppying at me or I'ma smack you, you fiend. I have to go to BED, dammit.
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Date: 2004-06-16 12:11 am (UTC)I can actually see OT3 except that no matter how I think about it, threesomes don't "work" in my head when it's got unequal balances. I think maybe I want things to "really work out" too much, but... yes. I love the propellor-hat thing. That was a stroke of sheer genius :D
See, see, that's why I like Ron with Hermione, 'cause she's so exacting and exploratory and curious and he's so rush-in-where-fools-fear-to-tread. I think I'm just perverse and enjoy seeing people butt heads among other things. Like, the fact that they don't -fit- is what appeals to me :> :> On the other hand, I don't tend to think of this from Hermione's pov, which... might be a problem. For a long while, though, I shipped H/D as my OTP and couldn't for the life of me figure out why Harry would -ever- want Draco. I think I'm still a bit like that, too ^^;;
Hardcore shippers scare me in any pairing, which is funny 'cause I'm so OTP-ish, heh. At least I'm not at all single-minded or ranty about it >:D :D!!
In my mind, though, Hermione would prolly give up on Ron soon after OoTP (regardless of whether Ron eventually gets her back) and goes and hooks up with someone like Krum (except they're in Hogwarts), who tells her she's pretty and isn't intimidated by her. Thus both Harry & Ron (but more Ron) get all jealous and seeing-her-in-a-new-light, but oh wait, that's ze Porn Epic :D :D
No one else writes a sexy!Hermione. It's an arid, arid desert out there, man :>
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Date: 2004-06-16 12:47 am (UTC)