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reenkaI guess I mostly want to post about whether one can dislike slash & not be homophobic.
I mean, I would automatically say one is pretty much homophobic to some degree if one -hates- and refuses to give slash (or gay-themed literature or movies) a chance. But in the case of just preferring het or gen-type fic, it's different, slash being a genre of romance. People generally read romance for pleasure-- unlike say, "general" fiction or nonfiction. They read it to relax and enjoy themselves, and if they don't identify with the emotions of the characters involved, then what would be the (emotional) draw?
As a 'serious writer', one of my main goals is to write outside my kinks (or pleasure-zones), because I think that's essential to improving one's craft, and also unsticking one's brain from a rut. But as a 'serious reader', I can't be bothered to ignore my kinks outside of class. And a reader's sexual orientation is just one big kink area, isn't it?
I have a straight, non-fandom guy friend who often reads my H/D fic and even enjoys it, so I know he doesn't have a problem with The Gay. He just doesn't like the sexy-yeay aspect of things. At all. And that really kind of made me think-- how many slash readers/writers would stop reading if slashfic no longer felt -good-?
I think the difference between proclaiming the 'yuck' reaction is homophobic & conscious or understandable and unconscious (in a straight guy or a non-kinky girl) is the difference between a higher-brained and an instinctual (pleasure-based) response. The higher brain says "whoa! morally suspect content!" whereas it's the inarguable Id that proclaims "omg hot!!1" or "omg, NOT!". *sigh* It also seems important that while there are -some- male slashers, nearly 100% are gay (thus begging the question of whether they're being as limited as the straight guys who'd rather stick to het).
This needs more thought on my part, clearly.
~~
Also... does loving/writing/reading H/D fics mean you're one of the inchoate group of H/D shippers? Does that have to necessarily mean you're all into the same thing, that you truly have something in common? (...No.)
It's just-- liking "all versions" of a pairing doesn't make sense to me.
Everyone has such a different view on Draco, it seems, and that really impacts my idea of whether or not he "should" be with Harry. That's really at the heart of it. I mean, it really gets confusing when one can't quite say either canon!Draco (as is) -or- ice-prince-fanon!Draco "should" be with Harry. I mean, that just leaves... "my" Draco and canonish!Harry who're MFEO. Canon!Draco is kinda... 'close but no cigar' at this point; I feel like most of the people (whose H/D I love) who write canonish!Draco with Harry do it either by using pre-OoTP Harry, lightening both of them up, or by writing it as a really messed up & abusive pairing.
Eh. Sometimes I do want Harry to love canon!Draco, but. Firstly, Harry's love would -change- Draco, and secondly, Harry being Harry, he'd still need a reason to. But, this makes for good 'boys are silly' fic, as long as you don't get too serious. While canon!Draco's being a dork, using him in fic makes for nice dorky!fluff. Secondly, it avoids using fanon!Draco, who is Teh Eval.
Gar. My hate-on for sexy-cool!Draco doesn't even have to do with canon. I just think he's sekritly evil. Why the bloody hell does he need Harry? He's already perfect! Look at him! He's blondest and prettiest and coolest and.. he doesn't even -angst-! He's Legolas without the ears! Perfection? Is dumb. :D
And "OTP" is such a meta concept that sometimes it hurts my brain, I think (and this is the person who 'ships' earth/sky and black/white and stuff like that). The problem is that Harry&Draco have become too real to me, maybe. And also, too many people these days seem to write H/D that I find heavily not to my taste, somehow. Like my perception of them has become so fine-tuned, any discordant note twangs like a bitch. Even so, I wouldn't rather read well-written H/Hr instead; then again, this might explain my recent sabbatical from fandom.
It's like... I'm okay with being "in" the "HP fandom" because that's such a diffuse, obviously multifaceted thing, but I feel that being labeled an "H/D shipper" implies things about me I may or may not want to represent. I mean, if you picked certain characteristics or aspects or portrayals of the pairing, I can honestly say "I'm emphatically not an H/D shipper". In fact, I have more disagreements with other H/D-shipping people than I do with people who ship other pairings, just 'cause I -care- more about my thoughts on H/D to start with.
I think shippiness is messed up in general. Why each individual "sees" two people as 'good together' is (should be?) idiosyncratic, isn't it? I mean, two fifteen/sixteen year-old boys who can't stand each other's guts are -not- going to have a healthy, balanced relationship any way you look at it. One can only hope they grow up together & don't drive each other utterly mad (or dead) along the way :>
Maybe it's just that seeing this H/Hr shippy rant reminds me of everything that's wrong with shippiness and blatant character favoritism. It's like, oh, look how compatible & good together & healthy H/Hr is! They're such wonderful miniature adults from age 12 on or whatever. Why does that poor idiot, Ron, have to ruin everything?!?
I don't think H&D are "good together" (without a lot of doing), yet I ship 'em like a mofo. I think this makes me a freak :>
I mean, I do indulge in rather blatant Harry favoritism myself, but the idea of using the love of one character/pairing to bring down another, or that defining oneself as -pro- something has to imply you're -anti- something else... that just really bothers me. I love Ron, you know, and I love the relationship between Harry & Ron, but I would never say it's more important to Harry than his relationship with Hermione. He loves (and needs) them both, dude. Draco, though-- my Draco-- is just a dream; or possibly, canon!Draco's nightmare.
I probably I ship Harry and Draco because clearly I adore them, and because they represent all sorts of things about the world and the universe and how I want to perceive love and what I hope can be true about people. I want them to be together because I want to believe the best of people and because I think they can (one day!) be so brilliant together and because they need each other in a whole 'nother way. In the way you need your shadow, and in the way you need your light, and in a way you need to believe in the impossible and in free will and in our own ability to change. There is so much potential there-- and H/D can just explode with it (though it doesn't a lot of the time, not in practice). In practice, very very few H/D writers have really made it -work- for me, and of course those that have, possess my undying love.
But I am in love with them and I will stay in love with them and I need and want them to stay in love with each other, but I still dislike reducing all this passion to the confines of "shipping" and shippiness. To me, it's a way of thinking, of seeing love-- of believing things about the world in general.
I love Aja's use of the world "allegorical" in the post above-- because that's what H/D is to me, as real as both Harry & Draco have become-- an allegory. Both real & allegorical, yes, exactly.
What I'm saying is-- there is all this love in me for my H/D, and Aja's, and Ivy's, and Maya's & Aspen's, and Miss Breed's & Silvia's & Trin's & Audrey's & Thess' & Rhysenn's & Antenora's-- and it's all so individual, so particular, even as it coalesces in my mind into a single feeling from the multiple sources. It's just-- purity of precise meaning remains though the source is mixed. I feel their love and I feel mine, and it's always unique to me, always reborn with every good (there's me being particular again) fic anyone writes.
I'm now wondering whether I'm an OTP writer, and I think I am, because Harry & Draco are always "It" for me. What I always think about, what I care about, what I'm -here- for. Nothing else matters, yes, but other things interest me. I like writing against kink, I like challenging myself, I love knowing I'm growing as a writer. I'll leave fandom for good if I ever tire of H/D, yes, but it's not because H/D is "my ship". They're not -mine-; I'm theirs. They possess me. I have interests outside them, I try to escape them even, but their contradictory, insane relationship possesses me because it's my Story.
It is the story of Love and magic and the need to always feel even when your heart is breaking in two inside you. It is a (meta-)story of love & hate & letting go & growing up & accepting things & learning what's worth fighting for. They are my avatars; they are my starting points; they aren't a sure thing to me because they are always fighting to be.
My Harry&Draco are always a step away from completion; always on the brink of disaster & ruin & heartbreak. Sometimes they snatch happiness from the jaws of hatred, but most times they just try to hurt each other and doubt themselves and each other. My H/D is never comfortable or easy or "meant to be"-- their battle for themselves is always just beginning, but they never stop. They can't stop. They can't let go. They are bound; in orbit; they are the One which is Two. They're not exactly heavily rooted in 'reality'.
Anyway... I'm well aware that the ideals I'm imbuing the pairing with aren't always there, in every H/D fic, to say the least-- that is partly why I find so many H/D fics to be painfully crap, my standards being sky-high. This is also a part of the reason I'm semi-open to other fandoms-- in the end, this type of meta-emotional landscape is transferrable to other pairings, if you write them right. (That is to say, I can "get" a similar vibe from other pairings, it's just that I don't have the pre-existing emotional investment to make it as powerful for me). H/D isn't unique in its suitability to carry this particular sort of context-- it's just rather rare.
I'd insist that what's important to me isn't That Pairing, but rather a way of -perceiving- That Pairing. Too many fics/writers see H/D (and the two characters individually) in a way I can't stand for me to feel comfortable. Ice-prince!Draco alone would put me off more than half the H/D fic out there (well, the ones that don't have porn to distract me with). How can I say I support these visions and call them "mine" by proxy?
This whole rambling quibble is a product of obsession, of course. I'm not even saying I ship H/D "better" or "truer" or "more intensely" than the rest-- I'm just saying I probably see them differently than most; just as I fit in neither with the canon!Draco-fanciers nor with the fanon!Draco-fanciers. (Which is to say, I like canon!Draco, redeemed from his future and made slightly less pathetic). Harry&Draco are not necessarily the same people to me as to most of the fandom.
As to ice-prince!Draco being coupled with nice-and-heroic!Harry? Sometimes I want to throw up, but mostly I just studiously don't care. Unless it's brilliantly written, of course, then all bets are off. I do mindlessly enjoy well-written porn (whether it's emotionally or physically based), but when I fall in love, I fall in love with an H/D writer's singular vision, and with these boys, all over again, every time.
~~
Generally, what I really care about is a good story rather than a shippy or a slashy story, even though those things draw me in initially. It's rather difficult to overcome some ridiculous characterization to write a brilliantly moving tale, but that's only because usually the stuff that's "OOC" makes no sense anyway. Usually it's just -stupid- or uninspired, moreso than it's anti-canon, as far as I can tell. But I'm cranky that way.
I mean, I would automatically say one is pretty much homophobic to some degree if one -hates- and refuses to give slash (or gay-themed literature or movies) a chance. But in the case of just preferring het or gen-type fic, it's different, slash being a genre of romance. People generally read romance for pleasure-- unlike say, "general" fiction or nonfiction. They read it to relax and enjoy themselves, and if they don't identify with the emotions of the characters involved, then what would be the (emotional) draw?
As a 'serious writer', one of my main goals is to write outside my kinks (or pleasure-zones), because I think that's essential to improving one's craft, and also unsticking one's brain from a rut. But as a 'serious reader', I can't be bothered to ignore my kinks outside of class. And a reader's sexual orientation is just one big kink area, isn't it?
I have a straight, non-fandom guy friend who often reads my H/D fic and even enjoys it, so I know he doesn't have a problem with The Gay. He just doesn't like the sexy-yeay aspect of things. At all. And that really kind of made me think-- how many slash readers/writers would stop reading if slashfic no longer felt -good-?
I think the difference between proclaiming the 'yuck' reaction is homophobic & conscious or understandable and unconscious (in a straight guy or a non-kinky girl) is the difference between a higher-brained and an instinctual (pleasure-based) response. The higher brain says "whoa! morally suspect content!" whereas it's the inarguable Id that proclaims "omg hot!!1" or "omg, NOT!". *sigh* It also seems important that while there are -some- male slashers, nearly 100% are gay (thus begging the question of whether they're being as limited as the straight guys who'd rather stick to het).
This needs more thought on my part, clearly.
~~
Also... does loving/writing/reading H/D fics mean you're one of the inchoate group of H/D shippers? Does that have to necessarily mean you're all into the same thing, that you truly have something in common? (...No.)
It's just-- liking "all versions" of a pairing doesn't make sense to me.
Everyone has such a different view on Draco, it seems, and that really impacts my idea of whether or not he "should" be with Harry. That's really at the heart of it. I mean, it really gets confusing when one can't quite say either canon!Draco (as is) -or- ice-prince-fanon!Draco "should" be with Harry. I mean, that just leaves... "my" Draco and canonish!Harry who're MFEO. Canon!Draco is kinda... 'close but no cigar' at this point; I feel like most of the people (whose H/D I love) who write canonish!Draco with Harry do it either by using pre-OoTP Harry, lightening both of them up, or by writing it as a really messed up & abusive pairing.
Eh. Sometimes I do want Harry to love canon!Draco, but. Firstly, Harry's love would -change- Draco, and secondly, Harry being Harry, he'd still need a reason to. But, this makes for good 'boys are silly' fic, as long as you don't get too serious. While canon!Draco's being a dork, using him in fic makes for nice dorky!fluff. Secondly, it avoids using fanon!Draco, who is Teh Eval.
Gar. My hate-on for sexy-cool!Draco doesn't even have to do with canon. I just think he's sekritly evil. Why the bloody hell does he need Harry? He's already perfect! Look at him! He's blondest and prettiest and coolest and.. he doesn't even -angst-! He's Legolas without the ears! Perfection? Is dumb. :D
And "OTP" is such a meta concept that sometimes it hurts my brain, I think (and this is the person who 'ships' earth/sky and black/white and stuff like that). The problem is that Harry&Draco have become too real to me, maybe. And also, too many people these days seem to write H/D that I find heavily not to my taste, somehow. Like my perception of them has become so fine-tuned, any discordant note twangs like a bitch. Even so, I wouldn't rather read well-written H/Hr instead; then again, this might explain my recent sabbatical from fandom.
It's like... I'm okay with being "in" the "HP fandom" because that's such a diffuse, obviously multifaceted thing, but I feel that being labeled an "H/D shipper" implies things about me I may or may not want to represent. I mean, if you picked certain characteristics or aspects or portrayals of the pairing, I can honestly say "I'm emphatically not an H/D shipper". In fact, I have more disagreements with other H/D-shipping people than I do with people who ship other pairings, just 'cause I -care- more about my thoughts on H/D to start with.
I think shippiness is messed up in general. Why each individual "sees" two people as 'good together' is (should be?) idiosyncratic, isn't it? I mean, two fifteen/sixteen year-old boys who can't stand each other's guts are -not- going to have a healthy, balanced relationship any way you look at it. One can only hope they grow up together & don't drive each other utterly mad (or dead) along the way :>
Maybe it's just that seeing this H/Hr shippy rant reminds me of everything that's wrong with shippiness and blatant character favoritism. It's like, oh, look how compatible & good together & healthy H/Hr is! They're such wonderful miniature adults from age 12 on or whatever. Why does that poor idiot, Ron, have to ruin everything?!?
I don't think H&D are "good together" (without a lot of doing), yet I ship 'em like a mofo. I think this makes me a freak :>
I mean, I do indulge in rather blatant Harry favoritism myself, but the idea of using the love of one character/pairing to bring down another, or that defining oneself as -pro- something has to imply you're -anti- something else... that just really bothers me. I love Ron, you know, and I love the relationship between Harry & Ron, but I would never say it's more important to Harry than his relationship with Hermione. He loves (and needs) them both, dude. Draco, though-- my Draco-- is just a dream; or possibly, canon!Draco's nightmare.
I probably I ship Harry and Draco because clearly I adore them, and because they represent all sorts of things about the world and the universe and how I want to perceive love and what I hope can be true about people. I want them to be together because I want to believe the best of people and because I think they can (one day!) be so brilliant together and because they need each other in a whole 'nother way. In the way you need your shadow, and in the way you need your light, and in a way you need to believe in the impossible and in free will and in our own ability to change. There is so much potential there-- and H/D can just explode with it (though it doesn't a lot of the time, not in practice). In practice, very very few H/D writers have really made it -work- for me, and of course those that have, possess my undying love.
But I am in love with them and I will stay in love with them and I need and want them to stay in love with each other, but I still dislike reducing all this passion to the confines of "shipping" and shippiness. To me, it's a way of thinking, of seeing love-- of believing things about the world in general.
I love Aja's use of the world "allegorical" in the post above-- because that's what H/D is to me, as real as both Harry & Draco have become-- an allegory. Both real & allegorical, yes, exactly.
What I'm saying is-- there is all this love in me for my H/D, and Aja's, and Ivy's, and Maya's & Aspen's, and Miss Breed's & Silvia's & Trin's & Audrey's & Thess' & Rhysenn's & Antenora's-- and it's all so individual, so particular, even as it coalesces in my mind into a single feeling from the multiple sources. It's just-- purity of precise meaning remains though the source is mixed. I feel their love and I feel mine, and it's always unique to me, always reborn with every good (there's me being particular again) fic anyone writes.
I'm now wondering whether I'm an OTP writer, and I think I am, because Harry & Draco are always "It" for me. What I always think about, what I care about, what I'm -here- for. Nothing else matters, yes, but other things interest me. I like writing against kink, I like challenging myself, I love knowing I'm growing as a writer. I'll leave fandom for good if I ever tire of H/D, yes, but it's not because H/D is "my ship". They're not -mine-; I'm theirs. They possess me. I have interests outside them, I try to escape them even, but their contradictory, insane relationship possesses me because it's my Story.
It is the story of Love and magic and the need to always feel even when your heart is breaking in two inside you. It is a (meta-)story of love & hate & letting go & growing up & accepting things & learning what's worth fighting for. They are my avatars; they are my starting points; they aren't a sure thing to me because they are always fighting to be.
My Harry&Draco are always a step away from completion; always on the brink of disaster & ruin & heartbreak. Sometimes they snatch happiness from the jaws of hatred, but most times they just try to hurt each other and doubt themselves and each other. My H/D is never comfortable or easy or "meant to be"-- their battle for themselves is always just beginning, but they never stop. They can't stop. They can't let go. They are bound; in orbit; they are the One which is Two. They're not exactly heavily rooted in 'reality'.
Anyway... I'm well aware that the ideals I'm imbuing the pairing with aren't always there, in every H/D fic, to say the least-- that is partly why I find so many H/D fics to be painfully crap, my standards being sky-high. This is also a part of the reason I'm semi-open to other fandoms-- in the end, this type of meta-emotional landscape is transferrable to other pairings, if you write them right. (That is to say, I can "get" a similar vibe from other pairings, it's just that I don't have the pre-existing emotional investment to make it as powerful for me). H/D isn't unique in its suitability to carry this particular sort of context-- it's just rather rare.
I'd insist that what's important to me isn't That Pairing, but rather a way of -perceiving- That Pairing. Too many fics/writers see H/D (and the two characters individually) in a way I can't stand for me to feel comfortable. Ice-prince!Draco alone would put me off more than half the H/D fic out there (well, the ones that don't have porn to distract me with). How can I say I support these visions and call them "mine" by proxy?
This whole rambling quibble is a product of obsession, of course. I'm not even saying I ship H/D "better" or "truer" or "more intensely" than the rest-- I'm just saying I probably see them differently than most; just as I fit in neither with the canon!Draco-fanciers nor with the fanon!Draco-fanciers. (Which is to say, I like canon!Draco, redeemed from his future and made slightly less pathetic). Harry&Draco are not necessarily the same people to me as to most of the fandom.
As to ice-prince!Draco being coupled with nice-and-heroic!Harry? Sometimes I want to throw up, but mostly I just studiously don't care. Unless it's brilliantly written, of course, then all bets are off. I do mindlessly enjoy well-written porn (whether it's emotionally or physically based), but when I fall in love, I fall in love with an H/D writer's singular vision, and with these boys, all over again, every time.
~~
Generally, what I really care about is a good story rather than a shippy or a slashy story, even though those things draw me in initially. It's rather difficult to overcome some ridiculous characterization to write a brilliantly moving tale, but that's only because usually the stuff that's "OOC" makes no sense anyway. Usually it's just -stupid- or uninspired, moreso than it's anti-canon, as far as I can tell. But I'm cranky that way.
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Date: 2004-06-11 02:41 pm (UTC)Though I do have het in my life & don't mind reading about it, I've heard that argument-type before. 'Course, some people read about things -because- they're "in their life"-- that whole comfort-zone thing.
Depends what you're reading stuff "for", I think :>