~~ mind you, I hate Lucius, so.

[reenka]

For the record (if there is such a thing), I suppose I should finalize my opinion on whether Lucius loves Draco. I've never really thought about it, but I found I rather respect Jane St Clair (she of the likable Star Trek fic and the fondness for nasty!Draco), and she says Lucius "adores" him, and....

Well, it's like this. As the facts seem to stand, Lucius seems to indulge and coddle Draco in some ways, it is true-- but not others. Not when Draco's an embarrassment to him. He goes all out financially when he seems to think it's useful and witholds when he finds it frivolous (well, mostly I'm basing this on the Dark Arts shop). Lucius has no problem scolding Draco, so he's not some super-indulgent super-adoring parent, anyway, although Draco feels comfortable enough to whine on and on, so there mustn't be any serious repercussions. Narcissa gives every indication of being superficial-- again, this focus on gifts and money as signs of love (candy owl posts). Lucius seems to have some sort of agenda, though.

But. I think there is a huge difference between throwing money at things and making sure certain life-lessons are instilled and actually being a doting, devoted parent who spends "quality time" with their child. Who -bonds- with their child and does what's really in their best interest regardless of "the plan".


Lucius Malfoy is a single-minded power-hungry politician who has his fingers in a number of pies, it seems. I get the impression that he's a busy man. More importantly, I don't get the impression that he's an emotionally open, caring man. Now, it may seem that being caring and empathic in general doesn't have a bearing on how loving and good of a parent you are, but I think it does. Maybe you can -not show- that side of you to most people, but it has to be there. And, indeed, if it is there, your child tends not to grow up to be an insufferable prick (yeah, that'd be Draco, much as I love him).

What I'm saying is, Draco's horrible behavior at school is proof enough that his parents aren't giving him some sort of ideal caring environment. Though it's not saying they -beat- him or make his life miserable. It's not one or the other. It could just be the usual-- that people don't know how to love whether they feel it or not. They don't know how to be decent human beings so they don't know how to teach their child to be one.

I think it's the Dursley phenomenon, actually. The parents are awful, and so is the child. It seems, indeed, like they dote on Dudley, but to me, that sort of love is fake and disgusting. It's some sort of parody fascimile of love, because these people wouldn't know real love if it hit them on the hiney and bit down. It's empty, is what I'm saying. There's no real... human bonding going on. It's all about wanting the child to be an exact duplicate of you, wanting them to -become- you.

The Dursleys willfully -ignore- Dudley's real problems until he deals with them in his own way (weight, bullying), just as the Malfoys ignore Draco's (possibly alienation, bullying, anger issues, whatever). That's not love, that's narcissism. So even if such a person -thinks- they love their child, the only thing they love is themselves. It doesn't even matter to me how Lucius actually acts toward Draco, because I can only believe that he doesn't love anything but himself, whatever he thinks.

Overall, I think I'm angry with him. Lucius, I mean. To me, it's not a question of whether he loves Draco or not-- he still hasn't done right by Draco as far as I'm concerned. Love isn't enough, really. Love isn't so much the most important aspect of parenting as the basis from which everything spreads, generally. Thing is-- everyone loves their children. Everyone. Sure, Lucius does and so would Tom Riddle, if he had any. Big whoop, eh? Doesn't mean they won't make their child's life a mockery or a living hell, but I don't think one could say they don't "love" them.

I don't see where this fascination with -whether- Lucius loves Draco comes from. Perhaps it's right there in the text, actually, since it's so vital that Harry's mother really -really- loved him, enough to protect him with her life. But that was a selfless love, wasn't it. It was a love that acquired its goodness from the goodness of her heart. Lily was a loving person, so her love redeemed. Lucius is... not, so his love can only condemn. Love itself can be a prison, can't it. It's the best prison, really. There's nothing special about the -emotion-, only about the heart it inhabits, I think.

But like I said, I'm rather angry with Lucius.

Comments

[malafede.livejournal.com]

But I want to improve Draco in so far as to give him more depth, seeing as he's mostly two-dimensional as far as canon goes

See, this is what I don’t get – if you feel he’s cardboard and flat, why are you interested in him? I personally find him a minor character with a more than satisfying subtext, considering his presence in the books. When I talk about growth I don’t mean more depth of character (as in the way he’s written) I mean personal growth, something that concerns him as a real boy in his universe. Well, that was convoluted. But. Anyway. I sort of don’t care about whatever leads JKR to write him as she does (also because, I can’t read her mind), I like the way he’s written. I think someone that you at least know is angry all the time, and envious, and scared, and childish, and petty… well, that’s quite human for me.

Oh, I make a lot of concessions to my principles when it comes to H/D, so… Harry doesn’t have to be alone. *throws subby Draco from PoA in his lap* (Not that Draco is typically something else. Eh.)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

You know, I've had this conversation before, kind of, with another canon!Draco lover, of which I'm not one(!). Then again, neither am I a fanon!Draco lover. I'm weird, 'cause I love, basically, my own Draco, and I'm pretty certain he's neither JKR's nor anyone else's in particular. He's a combination of many different sources, which is I think why I confuse people.

Okay, point one-- I'd read fanon before canon. I -hated- canon at first glance (read 10 pages of the first book and threw it against the wall). I liked the movies, though. And then I came across fanfic, whee! I make a habit of reading fanfic for shows/books I'm not familiar with, 'cause I guess I pick things up fast & also, most people don't write the most canon-heavy fanfic anyway.

I -have- read canon, of course (and love Harry a zillion times more because of it) but... at base, I'm not the sort of person who fixates on any sort of subtext. I may seem like it, I guess, 'cause I overanalyze everything, but I'm a lazy reader who takes things "as is" a lot of times. I don't -think- about some minor character, usually. I'm almost always all about the major pov characters and everyone else can go to hell. Er... well... it's just that they're the ones I -know- the best, and since I read by identifying and placing myself in the story most of the time, I end up bonding with the pov characters, see? I don't usually question the text.

In this case, fanon came first, so of course my Draco is never going to be content to be Harry's shadow villain or whatever. Buuuut... well, it's like... as a person, Draco annoys me. It's only by identifying with him that I can get over that-- by getting in his head and -becoming- him (while reading or writing). Seen from the outside, he seems shallow yet cute and somewhat brilliantly nasty to me (in flashes). I find him adorable sometimes and despicable other times (in canon), but mostly he's nearly incomprehensible, as in WTF IS HE THINKING?!

Also, I still have the thing that I don't much like JKR's writing itself or the way she characterizes anyone or anything even -as- I love her world and her plots and Harry & Ron & Draco & stuff. It's weird. Canon!Draco is like an outline in my head, a bunch of points of reference that I can only imagine a real boy out of by channeling him somehow. Mind you, there's so much fanon in my head that maybe the "real" Draco never had a chance, I dunno :>

And I think my level of irritation is related to overload on fandom and fic both, so this is why I took a "break"-- meaning, stopped reading fic or people's lj's. Heh. I have a hard time letting go, I guess, so when I to I just cut totally. I love sexgod!Draco sometimes, when he's human too (like wheee, in UL). What H/D -does- have in-character Harry -and- Draco? None, really. Heh. I just tend to rail against people and rant a lot 'cause I'm a spaz :>

I also am stubborn about the hypothetical happiness of the Harry in my head, not any specific fic's Harry, heh. Um. Ah yes, there -is- a Harry in my head. He'd be rather pissed if I left him to fend for himself with some Dementors. "NO MORE LIVE H/D SEX FOR YOUUU, REENA!!" hee.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

Then again, neither am I a fanon!Draco lover. I'm weird, 'cause I love, basically, my own Draco, and I'm pretty certain he's neither JKR's nor anyone else's in particular. He's a combination of many different sources, which is I think why I confuse people.

Eh, I don’t know, that’s the same for me, but I say I love canon Draco, not fanon. I mean, fanon has taken a slightly perverse meaning in the HP fandom anyway (others as well). Instead than being just a… statistical matter, a literary convention to isolate stuff that had become popular among the readers without any judgement of quality being passed, it’s become bad and cliché and contradicting canon. That’s why I talk about “fanon Draco” as the hot, suave, sexy stud all of Howgwarts secretly wants to shag. I’m just following the flow. But I don’t think that interpreting Draco in any way means 1) stepping out of canon 2) bad writing. I mean, these sources that you talk about that inform him, they’re inevitable, I think. Projection is inevitable.

I -have- read canon, of course (and love Harry a zillion times more because of it) but... at base, I'm not the sort of person who fixates on any sort of subtext. I may seem like it, I guess, 'cause I overanalyze everything, but I'm a lazy reader who takes things "as is" a lot of times.

The thing is that what’s “as is” for you is clearly different from what’s “as if” from me. If you take things at face value, that doesn’t rule out minor characters. You’d take minor characters at face value, but you’d still take them. If you dismiss Draco or Pansy or Zacharias Smith it’s a specific choice of yours. I also don’t think being the main character implies you’re the best written one. Actually this attitude bothers me because I think it accounts for the blackmail some lead-character fans put on fans of… other people. Like those who said if you didn’t like Buffy, why are you watching BTVS? Well, for the other characters.

I don't usually question the text.

But… you ship Harry/Draco. How’s that not questioning it? Your pull is subversion, maybe subversion from within, but still. If you took canon at face value you’d be shipping H/G, possibly. *g*

I love sexgod!Draco sometimes, when he's human too (like wheee, in UL).

Well, UL Draco is adult in a way I don’t think canon Draco will ever be, but he’s also not that big a sexgod. I mean, he’s shagged what, 5 people? I bet Pansy gets around more.

He'd be rather pissed if I left him to fend for himself with some Dementors.

Oh, the dementors would take good care of him. They’d watch in his soul, they’d smother him with kisses, and he’d swoon at them. Really, look, it’s canon.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Hmm. It's like, difficult to explain the way I sort of... skip over things that aren't the main (pov) character-- because, like... I dunno, I'm solipsistic? I don't deal with ensembles very well, y'know, with groups in my head. It's always gonna be about one or two (three, tops) people for me, in terms of what I think about. I know I should change that, but it's difficult. So... I go with what the heart/center of the story is, what the most attention gets spent on, and that's very easy in HP 'cause it's such a focused Harry-centric pov. It's very easy to ignore everyone else~:) Pansy... I think without fandom, I would hardly know who Pansy -was- :>

I don't mean the main character is best written, I just mean there's the -most- written there so I kinda see the bulk by default. I'm like this with any ensemble-- and some people are -not- like this by default, too, I think. Maybe it's got to do with how one perceives oneself and groups. I'm a very closed-in, individualist sort of person who dislikes associating with many people and groups especially. I see people generally on a one-on-one basis, and I don't concern myself with many at a time unless forced to somehow. I don't tend to go out of my way to find people of interest to follow-- I'd rather not follow anyone at all-- just see what's in front of me-- it's bound to be interesting enough. Basically, I'm lazy ;>

I'm not a -fan-, really, y'know-- not of the main characters and not of the side characters, though I basically don't -care- about the obscure ones 'cause I barely know enough to care. A few characteristics isn't enough. It has to be... its own story. See, I don't know why I even write fanfic (about Draco!), it goes against my nature in some ways... I think I've just read enough fanfic-- and so much of it is -about- Draco... that it's not subverting the text so much as continuing and refining the tradition, for me. I'm writing as a part of a history of H/D fanfic writers. I'm in a sort of communication with them. My fics are a response to their fics moreso than to canon, even if I -use- canon to respond.

So, I mean. I'm not subverting the text personally-- I barely -care- about the text. My two/three beloved characters may be -based- in the text, but their true source these days is in my head. I could easily see myself writing a whole new world for my own Harry & Draco, if I could manage the tedium & hard work, y'know :>

I probably would be shipping H/G if I'd read the canon -first-, that's what I'm saying (though I'd prolly ship Harry/Cho or something... eh, I dunno, I don't ship anything-- I'm not a normal fan, I think, shipping isn't my thing outside of fanfic or the canon couples). I ship H/D because that's what I read first and then it because for other reasons. I mean... I have an instinctive attraction to it that's much greater than any attraction I have to any other HP pairing, but fact remains, I ship it 'cause it was -there- (in the fanfic I read). I read Durendal and Ivy and I was like, mmmmm hotness. That is why~:)